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650575 Posts in 25997 Topics by 3711 Members - Latest Member: whiskeyhill September 16, 2019, 03:35:24 PM
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Author Topic: Mark Linett's "upcoming announcement"  (Read 5789 times)
CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2019, 10:06:02 AM »

Physical media is great, and I full advocate it being purchased (and nice physical BBs box sets being produced)... but that said, if it takes less (or no more) physical sets to be made in order for more tunes to be released, then so be it. That's the most important thing by far - quantity of tracks, getting as much out there into the world as possible. Emptying the vaults should always be prioritized over a box set. There's no way as much material as we saw recently released would have seen the light of day in a physical format. No way.

And maybe the business plan that we saw with Sunshine Tomorrow I and II is the wisest plan going forward. Some physical release to start, and then a followup with a digital-only release. Although even that plan makes me worry that if the physical set doesn't sell to expectations, that a digital follow-up set could get canceled. Make just dump everything digitally, and skip physical entirely, I dunno. I trust they're being smart about how they are proceeding. There's a market for this stuff no doubt, and maybe it's not in physical media, but there are fans who are interested who will gladly empty their wallets, even for mp3s.

And it's a good time to remind people to actually purchase the copyright extension albums, and not *just* stream them on Spotify! At first, I myself was just streaming them, but it's important to have a reality check. This is some of the greatest music ever made, and I think that many of us on this board are having some pretty mindblowing emotional experiences hearing these tracks being excavated. If we want these amazing outtakes to continue to be released for subsequent albums, we need to financially support the great work that Mark/Alan are doing if at all possible, even though streaming services like Spotify make it really easy to forget to do so. Even if someone has a "purchasing mp3s is just not my thing" type of mentality, they should just get over that and buy them anyway. It's for the greater good of more sets like this.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 10:10:38 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2019, 02:31:24 AM »

Physical media is great, and I full advocate it being purchased (and nice physical BBs box sets being produced)... but that said, if it takes less (or no more) physical sets to be made in order for more tunes to be released, then so be it. That's the most important thing by far - quantity of tracks, getting as much out there into the world as possible. Emptying the vaults should always be prioritized over a box set. There's no way as much material as we saw recently released would have seen the light of day in a physical format. No way.

And maybe the business plan that we saw with Sunshine Tomorrow I and II is the wisest plan going forward. Some physical release to start, and then a followup with a digital-only release. Although even that plan makes me worry that if the physical set doesn't sell to expectations, that a digital follow-up set could get canceled. Make just dump everything digitally, and skip physical entirely, I dunno. I trust they're being smart about how they are proceeding. There's a market for this stuff no doubt, and maybe it's not in physical media, but there are fans who are interested who will gladly empty their wallets, even for mp3s.

And it's a good time to remind people to actually purchase the copyright extension albums, and not *just* stream them on Spotify! At first, I myself was just streaming them, but it's important to have a reality check. This is some of the greatest music ever made, and I think that many of us on this board are having some pretty mindblowing emotional experiences hearing these tracks being excavated. If we want these amazing outtakes to continue to be released for subsequent albums, we need to financially support the great work that Mark/Alan are doing if at all possible, even though streaming services like Spotify make it really easy to forget to do so. Even if someone has a "purchasing mp3s is just not my thing" type of mentality, they should just get over that and buy them anyway. It's for the greater good of more sets like this.

Very much agree with the first two paragraphs.

Also want to point out that yes, I imagine they get more money from people buying the set on iTunes. However they are still getting money when people play it on Spotify...and considerably more when people play it on Apple Music. It's not like Spotify/Apple Music don't pay the record companies money. And those who pay premium for streaming services are technically paying out of their pocket to listen to these tracks....of course buying the tracks outright is better, but it's not like using Spotify/Apple Music is financially similar to "fans" pirating the tracks like some shamefully do.
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« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2019, 01:54:30 PM »

Physical media is great, and I full advocate it being purchased (and nice physical BBs box sets being produced)... but that said, if it takes less (or no more) physical sets to be made in order for more tunes to be released, then so be it. That's the most important thing by far - quantity of tracks, getting as much out there into the world as possible. Emptying the vaults should always be prioritized over a box set. There's no way as much material as we saw recently released would have seen the light of day in a physical format. No way.

And maybe the business plan that we saw with Sunshine Tomorrow I and II is the wisest plan going forward. Some physical release to start, and then a followup with a digital-only release. Although even that plan makes me worry that if the physical set doesn't sell to expectations, that a digital follow-up set could get canceled. Make just dump everything digitally, and skip physical entirely, I dunno. I trust they're being smart about how they are proceeding. There's a market for this stuff no doubt, and maybe it's not in physical media, but there are fans who are interested who will gladly empty their wallets, even for mp3s.

And it's a good time to remind people to actually purchase the copyright extension albums, and not *just* stream them on Spotify! At first, I myself was just streaming them, but it's important to have a reality check. This is some of the greatest music ever made, and I think that many of us on this board are having some pretty mindblowing emotional experiences hearing these tracks being excavated. If we want these amazing outtakes to continue to be released for subsequent albums, we need to financially support the great work that Mark/Alan are doing if at all possible, even though streaming services like Spotify make it really easy to forget to do so. Even if someone has a "purchasing mp3s is just not my thing" type of mentality, they should just get over that and buy them anyway. It's for the greater good of more sets like this.

Very much agree with the first two paragraphs.

Also want to point out that yes, I imagine they get more money from people buying the set on iTunes. However they are still getting money when people play it on Spotify...and considerably more when people play it on Apple Music. It's not like Spotify/Apple Music don't pay the record companies money. And those who pay premium for streaming services are technically paying out of their pocket to listen to these tracks....of course buying the tracks outright is better, but it's not like using Spotify/Apple Music is financially similar to "fans" pirating the tracks like some shamefully do.

It is 2019.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2019, 02:35:58 PM »

Physical media is great, and I full advocate it being purchased (and nice physical BBs box sets being produced)... but that said, if it takes less (or no more) physical sets to be made in order for more tunes to be released, then so be it. That's the most important thing by far - quantity of tracks, getting as much out there into the world as possible. Emptying the vaults should always be prioritized over a box set. There's no way as much material as we saw recently released would have seen the light of day in a physical format. No way.

And maybe the business plan that we saw with Sunshine Tomorrow I and II is the wisest plan going forward. Some physical release to start, and then a followup with a digital-only release. Although even that plan makes me worry that if the physical set doesn't sell to expectations, that a digital follow-up set could get canceled. Make just dump everything digitally, and skip physical entirely, I dunno. I trust they're being smart about how they are proceeding. There's a market for this stuff no doubt, and maybe it's not in physical media, but there are fans who are interested who will gladly empty their wallets, even for mp3s.

And it's a good time to remind people to actually purchase the copyright extension albums, and not *just* stream them on Spotify! At first, I myself was just streaming them, but it's important to have a reality check. This is some of the greatest music ever made, and I think that many of us on this board are having some pretty mindblowing emotional experiences hearing these tracks being excavated. If we want these amazing outtakes to continue to be released for subsequent albums, we need to financially support the great work that Mark/Alan are doing if at all possible, even though streaming services like Spotify make it really easy to forget to do so. Even if someone has a "purchasing mp3s is just not my thing" type of mentality, they should just get over that and buy them anyway. It's for the greater good of more sets like this.

Very much agree with the first two paragraphs.

Also want to point out that yes, I imagine they get more money from people buying the set on iTunes. However they are still getting money when people play it on Spotify...and considerably more when people play it on Apple Music. It's not like Spotify/Apple Music don't pay the record companies money. And those who pay premium for streaming services are technically paying out of their pocket to listen to these tracks....of course buying the tracks outright is better, but it's not like using Spotify/Apple Music is financially similar to "fans" pirating the tracks like some shamefully do.

I feel pretty confident in saying that the band and Capitol Records are getting pennies on the dollar for streaming revenue, as opposed to people actually purchasing mp3s. Capitol funds these types of projects not out of the goodness of their hearts, but to make a buck. I'm not calling streaming-only fans pirates, but it's a weird, murky era for the industry. It hit me, a few months back on this board after seeing Alan (I think?) ask fans to support these sets, and underscoring how necessary that support is for them to continue, that such a nudge by folks on the inside to fans should not be ignored.

I then realized I was being pretty silly by not having purchased the mp3s, as I would have in years past before streaming largely took over my own listening habits (as well as the habits of many/most music fans, it seems). Considering how much I love the music of this band, it should be a no-brainer that none of us should take the existence of these sets for granted.

So, I would tend to think that it will most certainly increase our chances of more, more, more in the way of wonderfully exhaustive sets for the early '70s era stuff (and beyond, if we're lucky) if more people purchased the mp3s as opposed to solely streamed them via Spotify type streaming-only platforms.

Bottom line, we all want more sets like these, and while Spotify streams are surely making *some* money for the projects, as fans the best that we could do in order to facilitate projects like these continuing would be buying mp3s. If I'm off base, let me know, but I feel quite sure this is the best course of action. Considering all the joy that these wonderful and historically significant nuggets that are being newly-released into the world bring to me, there's no way I would not want to support more of such product coming out as much as possible.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 02:45:17 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2019, 02:47:45 PM »

I don’t know all the ins and outs of how the industry operates, but certainly music streaming services have devalued music in terms of how the masses view it and certainly how they expect to pay for it.

It’s a bit surprising that music labels haven’t put a sort of gap between when an album comes out and when its available on streaming services. They do it in multiple different ways with movies. There’s a theatrical window, then a gap, then usually a window of a few weeks where the film can only be purchased (not rented) digitally, and then after that it’s available to rent digitally (and via VOD, etc.) and also via physical media. And then, usually a few months or more later, it makes it to the actual streaming services “for free” (meaning not actually “for free”, but as part of a subscription plan).

There’s no way music releases could have *that* many stages/tiers to each release. But I’m surprised the stuff ends up day-and-date on Spotify rather than at least putting a window in of a few weeks where it can only be *purchased* digitally or physically.

I think, at this point, the only place where actually real money is to be made on BB releases is to go “deluxe”, and that can happen in two ways. One way that I’m *not* a fan of is to do big, needlessly expensive vinyl reissues. It’s trendy, and it’s a “collecting” thing as much as anything else. I’m not opposed to vinyl, but it’s often now happening *instead* of CD releases. The other way to go is to do a big deluxe CD boxed set (which can also carry a digital component as well), targeted at collectors who still see value in the physical product. This type of fan is quickly fading, but there are enough that a big deluxe “1970” boxed set doesn’t have to move 100,000 units to make money because it’ll have a significantly higher price tag.
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« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2019, 02:33:41 AM »

If I'm off base, let me know, but I feel quite sure this is the best course of action. Considering all the joy that these wonderful and historically significant nuggets that are being newly-released into the world bring to me, there's no way I would not want to support more of such product coming out as much as possible.

Not off base at all. I even said I'm sure they get more money from us buying the sets (which is obviously the more preferable route to financially support these sets). And obviously it is better when we buy the sets, no argument here. But I think it's only fair that people don't make it sound like streaming is something it isn't...when someone streams a song from the Sunshine Tomorrow set they technically are financially supporting the set (even though I agree, it is peanuts compared to outright buying the set). Put it another way: if I buy the set from iTunes and I also choose to stream the set through Spotify (for convenience when I'm away from my computer), I am making them even more money than if I just listened to the tracks that I downloaded from iTunes.

Also, completely agree with HeyJude's points...the fact that these sets come out on streaming services the day they are released is utterly ridiculous in my opinion. Either do a sampler (like Bob Dylan has been doing) or do a gap in release times. They (Capitol) want to make more money from these sets and there are pretty easy ways of forcing fans to do just that, in my opinion.*
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 06:08:35 AM by rab2591 » Logged

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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2019, 07:55:36 AM »

If I'm off base, let me know, but I feel quite sure this is the best course of action. Considering all the joy that these wonderful and historically significant nuggets that are being newly-released into the world bring to me, there's no way I would not want to support more of such product coming out as much as possible.

Not off base at all. I even said I'm sure they get more money from us buying the sets (which is obviously the more preferable route to financially support these sets). And obviously it is better when we buy the sets, no argument here. But I think it's only fair that people don't make it sound like streaming is something it isn't...when someone streams a song from the Sunshine Tomorrow set they technically are financially supporting the set (even though I agree, it is peanuts compared to outright buying the set). Put it another way: if I buy the set from iTunes and I also choose to stream the set through Spotify (for convenience when I'm away from my computer), I am making them even more money than if I just listened to the tracks that I downloaded from iTunes.

Also, completely agree with HeyJude's points...the fact that these sets come out on streaming services the day they are released is utterly ridiculous in my opinion. Either do a sampler (like Bob Dylan has been doing) or do a gap in release times. They (Capitol) want to make more money from these sets and there are pretty easy ways of forcing fans to do just that, in my opinion.*

There seems to be a huge disconnect between the reality of music sales and delivery in 2019 versus what people think is still a model from 20 years ago. Success in music sales is often determined by YouTube views and numbers on video releases versus actual product sales. Do any hip-hop artists release CD's anymore, and base their success on how many fans actually wait in line at a store when an album drops to walk out with a physical CD? It's all streams, views, and downloads.

And if you buy the set on iTunes, you simply connect via Bluetooth to your car system, your Bluetooth speaker, or the wireless headphones and listen. Same with streaming.

I'm just saying, and agreeing, that the entire music business changed in how music is sold and delivered (that's obvious, or should be obvious), like it or not. I think artists are getting royally screwed by streaming in a lot of cases, yet what about those artists who still make a good chunk of change within this new system, both indie and major-label? They adapted, and deliver music to their fanbases using the ways their fans get their music. I've spoken to record shop owners who got rid of CD's entirely, they won't even stock them. They couldn't give them away. That particular corner of the marketplace shifted to vinyl, for people who want physical product to take home. What is even more ironic is that fans are buying audiophile grade pressings of vinyl albums and playing them on cheaper self-contained systems often costing less than 100 bucks with plastic tonearms and low-grade cartridge/stylus assemblies that make audiophile grade vinyl insignificant. But if that's what people want, that's how it is.

If there are issues with people using streaming services and subscription services to get their music, don't blame the people who pay for those services. They're not pirates, they're not bootlegging, they're not stealing the music. They're paying a monthly fee to subscribe to these services. Like it or not, that's how many if not a majority of listeners today hear their music. If music hitting these services or YouTube simultaneous to being released as physical product is an issue, take it up with the labels who facilitate and plan all that, but don't look down on fans who are paying every month for that service. When some major artists did try to protest the royalty rates going to artists from Apple, Spotify, and other streaming networks to try boosting the percentages paid to the artists and writers, they were all but villainized and laughed at. Even the Beatles capitulated for less than I think they were aiming for after holding out for higher percentages paid per song.

It's a mess, isn't it?
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« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2019, 08:37:30 AM »

That did kinda fly under the radar, didn't it?

They don't officially announce copyright sets (far in advance), right? Same for the Live copyright releases we have gotten in past years. And (completely guessing here) possibly Mark is involved with the new "Long Promised Road" documentary (mastering tunes or mixing Brian's newly recorded songs), but I don't think he would be the one to make any announcements about that...

So, if I had to take a guess:It's a Sunflower boxset. We're right on the cusp of the anniversary of this very special album - while I don't think Sunflower did as well as 20/20 or Friends on the charts, Sunflower has gained cultural popularity over the years...placing itself in Rolling Stone's top 200 albums of all time list, as well as other lists. Musicians/artists talk about how revolutionary a song like "All I Wanna Do" was. There is absolute gold on this album, and it wouldn't take much for a marketing agent at Capitol Records to turn up on the hype to market such a boxset to the public.

That is my best guess. I am probably completely wrong Grin whatever the announcement is, I am sure it will be something pretty special.
It is one of my favorite albums. It came in at number 380 in Rolling Stone's Top 500 albums. But I think it should have made the top 200.
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« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2019, 09:14:27 AM »

That did kinda fly under the radar, didn't it?

They don't officially announce copyright sets (far in advance), right? Same for the Live copyright releases we have gotten in past years. And (completely guessing here) possibly Mark is involved with the new "Long Promised Road" documentary (mastering tunes or mixing Brian's newly recorded songs), but I don't think he would be the one to make any announcements about that...

So, if I had to take a guess:It's a Sunflower boxset. We're right on the cusp of the anniversary of this very special album - while I don't think Sunflower did as well as 20/20 or Friends on the charts, Sunflower has gained cultural popularity over the years...placing itself in Rolling Stone's top 200 albums of all time list, as well as other lists. Musicians/artists talk about how revolutionary a song like "All I Wanna Do" was. There is absolute gold on this album, and it wouldn't take much for a marketing agent at Capitol Records to turn up on the hype to market such a boxset to the public.

That is my best guess. I am probably completely wrong Grin whatever the announcement is, I am sure it will be something pretty special.
It is one of my favorite albums. It came in at number 380 in Rolling Stone's Top 500 albums. But I think it should have made the top 200.


It should have made the top 20!
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« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2019, 02:53:45 PM »

If I'm off base, let me know, but I feel quite sure this is the best course of action. Considering all the joy that these wonderful and historically significant nuggets that are being newly-released into the world bring to me, there's no way I would not want to support more of such product coming out as much as possible.

Not off base at all. I even said I'm sure they get more money from us buying the sets (which is obviously the more preferable route to financially support these sets). And obviously it is better when we buy the sets, no argument here. But I think it's only fair that people don't make it sound like streaming is something it isn't...when someone streams a song from the Sunshine Tomorrow set they technically are financially supporting the set (even though I agree, it is peanuts compared to outright buying the set). Put it another way: if I buy the set from iTunes and I also choose to stream the set through Spotify (for convenience when I'm away from my computer), I am making them even more money than if I just listened to the tracks that I downloaded from iTunes.

Also, completely agree with HeyJude's points...the fact that these sets come out on streaming services the day they are released is utterly ridiculous in my opinion. Either do a sampler (like Bob Dylan has been doing) or do a gap in release times. They (Capitol) want to make more money from these sets and there are pretty easy ways of forcing fans to do just that, in my opinion.*

There seems to be a huge disconnect between the reality of music sales and delivery in 2019 versus what people think is still a model from 20 years ago. Success in music sales is often determined by YouTube views and numbers on video releases versus actual product sales. Do any hip-hop artists release CD's anymore, and base their success on how many fans actually wait in line at a store when an album drops to walk out with a physical CD? It's all streams, views, and downloads.

And if you buy the set on iTunes, you simply connect via Bluetooth to your car system, your Bluetooth speaker, or the wireless headphones and listen. Same with streaming.

I'm just saying, and agreeing, that the entire music business changed in how music is sold and delivered (that's obvious, or should be obvious), like it or not. I think artists are getting royally screwed by streaming in a lot of cases, yet what about those artists who still make a good chunk of change within this new system, both indie and major-label? They adapted, and deliver music to their fanbases using the ways their fans get their music. I've spoken to record shop owners who got rid of CD's entirely, they won't even stock them. They couldn't give them away. That particular corner of the marketplace shifted to vinyl, for people who want physical product to take home. What is even more ironic is that fans are buying audiophile grade pressings of vinyl albums and playing them on cheaper self-contained systems often costing less than 100 bucks with plastic tonearms and low-grade cartridge/stylus assemblies that make audiophile grade vinyl insignificant. But if that's what people want, that's how it is.

If there are issues with people using streaming services and subscription services to get their music, don't blame the people who pay for those services. They're not pirates, they're not bootlegging, they're not stealing the music. They're paying a monthly fee to subscribe to these services. Like it or not, that's how many if not a majority of listeners today hear their music. If music hitting these services or YouTube simultaneous to being released as physical product is an issue, take it up with the labels who facilitate and plan all that, but don't look down on fans who are paying every month for that service. When some major artists did try to protest the royalty rates going to artists from Apple, Spotify, and other streaming networks to try boosting the percentages paid to the artists and writers, they were all but villainized and laughed at. Even the Beatles capitulated for less than I think they were aiming for after holding out for higher percentages paid per song.

It's a mess, isn't it?

Agreed with your whole post. The part highlighted in yellow is something I never thought about. These days less and less people are using iTunes (not to be confused with Apple Music) - so the amount of people who look at the iTunes Charts dwindles more every year (thus the sales influence lessens amongst people who look at those charts and casually decide to buy charted tracks). So I'd also say that fans would be doing a disservice by not streaming these tracks and helping to chart albums/tracks on streaming services themselves (where they would pick up more and more listens as people checked out those charts)...And the more listens the more money the set is making.

Again I'll say: I think we as fans should buy these sets if we can afford them. However, I completely agree with Guitarfool about not looking down on people who do stream this stuff (especially people who pay premium to stream).

It definitely is a mess but I think the record companies could be doing a couple things themselves to put some extra money in their own pockets (and the pockets of the artists).
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« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2019, 09:00:31 PM »

I'm assuming nothing yet has come of this...?
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« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2019, 09:11:54 PM »

I'm thinking we'll hear about it in December...
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« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2019, 03:03:20 AM »

The last December announcement I remember was for the C50....
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« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2019, 06:21:25 AM »

The last December announcement I remember was for the C50....

Looks like everyone's diary is free as of March, too.
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« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2019, 06:32:16 AM »

Not that there's any one litmus test for precisely when stuff would get announced, but look at something like Capitol/UMe's upcoming Beatles "Abbey Road" set. It was announced August 8th for a September 27th release. So it's possible that, even if a BB set does end up having a physical release component, it would only be announced maybe 5 or 6 weeks before its release date. So if it comes out in November or December, we might not hear about it until October or November.

And certainly, digital-only releases have had often zero lead time prior to announcement, if they get an "announcement" at all.
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« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2019, 10:52:20 AM »

Don't get me thinking about a reunion that's not fair.

I'm pretty sure this will be about some sort of sunflower era release
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« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2019, 11:50:43 AM »

Don't get me thinking about a reunion that's not fair.

I'm pretty sure this will be about some sort of sunflower era release

I would say an announcement of an archival release is approximately 7,237% more likely than a reunion announcement.

Mike and Brian both have shows booked into 2020. Not that respective dates couldn't be rearranged or bought off if they wanted to do a reunion, but bookings for next year make it far less likely anything is imminent.

And really, I think unfortunately that the time has passed for a sort of *full blown* reunion (meaning an album and a world tour) to be feasible given everything going on with the various members and how they’re doing.

In the unlikely even that something materialized at this stage, I would imagine we’d be more likely to see *only* a studio project, and/or a hand full of shows or something.
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« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2019, 10:47:22 AM »

Don't get me thinking about a reunion that's not fair.

I'm pretty sure this will be about some sort of sunflower era release

Agreed. Especially with the state of Brian’s shows (sadly), though I would shell out the money if another reunion happened.

I’d be fine with either, or both.

NB: Maybe another reunion would re-energize Brian’s performances, not that I expect to happen though.
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« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2019, 03:17:48 AM »

Another Reunion might also cause Brian to get his act together - can't phone it in when you're no longer the only top dog
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« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2019, 02:48:08 PM »

Another Reunion might also cause Brian to get his act together - can't phone it in when you're no longer the only top dog
He did for many years starting in the 70's. I would argue it's a lot easier to phone it in as you say when you are not the top dog.
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« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2019, 06:44:30 PM »

Strongly doubt another reunion performance is coming.  Sunflower archival release much more likely...
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