gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
650584 Posts in 25999 Topics by 3711 Members - Latest Member: whiskeyhill September 17, 2019, 01:53:11 AM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Mike The Melody Maker  (Read 3684 times)
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4898



View Profile
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2019, 09:46:21 AM »

Yeah, dont forget about Mike playing the sax and how he tragically lost it after a show in the 1960s and he was unable to ever get a new one until it was returned to him 50 years later, that very same instrument, which he affectionately called "That stupid piece of sh*t", lovingly. He loved practicing that sax for hours and hours everyday. And boy, he was gifted at it -- some said he was on the road to being one of the greatest sax players ever, in fact John Coltrane once told Charlie Parker that if Mike-the-sax-prodigy kept getting better at the same speed that he had been that within a few years they would be out of jobs because Mike Love's Jazz band was going to one of the greatest jazz trios the world had ever seen, and that Mike had told them secretly he was going to stop being the lead singer of the Beach Boys so he could explore avant garde Jazz with his beloved sax....That he and that sax had a bond stronger than anyone could imagine and in fact, he no longer cared for the company of women, only wanted to practice his sax all day and night. Unfortunately when it was somehow left behind after a beach boys gig (some people think Carl intentionally didnt load it onto the tour bus on the hopes it would stop Mike from leaving the Beach Boys to become a full time sax player) he was so heart broken, he could not find a replacement for his dear sax and quit saxophone all together. Everytime he went to the music store to look for a new one he broke down crying and screaming "youre not my sax! youre not my sax!" And thus, Mike's career as saxophone genius was unfortunately cut short and also he stayed in the Beach Boys for the next 50 years. Carls plan worked.

In fact, for the next 50 years he kept touring the country in the same venues every year hoping to eventually find his sax he left behind. Some people think he toured heavily for money or fame or adulation, but in actuality he was hoping that he might, however small the chance, be reunited with his First Love (in fact, the album title refers to the love had for his sax) And when he finally did a few years back, he was so excited he made a 5 sentence facebook post about it. He could hardly contain his joy.

Some people think the biggest "What If" in a career of "What Ifs" concerning the Beach Boys is what if Smile had been released when it was originally planned or what if Brian never went into Landys care the second time? But for me, I wonder just how incredible Mike could've been on the sax had he not lost it that fateful night in 1965. Would he have completely redefined the limits of what was possible with the instrument? Would Jazz be main stream now instead of Rock? Would Mike be considered the genius now instead of Brian? So many questions we will never know the answer to....if only....if only....

 LOL
Logged
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
The Dr. of Wilsonomics
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 10838


🍦🍦My daughter and I -23 Dec 2018 ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2019, 04:29:23 PM »

Some times it was Rob, sometimes it was Dean . Scott did the vocal melody and harmonic  arrangements .


Here’s a great example of what Scotty brought to the band. The following was s track the DeLeo brothers did with their side band Talk Show

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6SHrgIXpQac


Not that great especially the vocals.

Now here is the rewritten version with Scott


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eNk-JnRwihU


Scott played a very little bit of guitar but other than the riff of Tumble in the Rough writing on guitar was not his forte. He didn’t really play an instrument on his solo projects apart from drums, but he hummed and sang with his collaborators.


Very cool. I liked Talk Show, but Scott had that presence and one of those force of nature type voices that could elevate a song. I feel the same about another tragic loss we had (too damn many, right? ) with Chris Cornell: When you hear the Audioslave songs, it's a terrific rhythm section, tight as all hell as expected with the RATM guys and making some great songs, but Chris' vocals made those tracks soar beyond the songs themselves. It's like Scott with STP, Chester, Morrison, Mercury, etc...the list goes on.

I compare it to The Doors, where Morrison was such a powerful force, when he's gone it's hard to overcome that in terms of plugging in another 1/4 of a tight band to try replacing the loss...because you can't. And that's the sad part in some cases because the other 3/4ths of the band is still there and doing what they do best, but that key element is gone.

In terms of The Beach Boys, what they had going for them was multiple lead singers. If a member wasn't available at a given time, they still had at least 4 (or more at times) lead voices to carry the tunes. Contrary to some revisionism, there was never a sole lead singer or lead voice in the band, and that was always their strength. But like some fans are with The Doors without Morrison, it's hard to go beyond the full classic lineup and get the same gut reaction they had hearing the classic lineup with all voices present under that name.

Agreed on all counts.

And you know the saying "the whole is more than the sum of the parts"? Well, with the Beach Boys, those parts were better than most bands's wholes.
Logged

RIP Alexa Lestage (8 May 1995- 10 June 2018) .

https://www.gofundme.com/help-support-the-jurkowlaniecs

Quote
Lady:”Sir why you are drowning my son!!! “
Guy:“Maa’m, the ad clearly reads...SEA horse rides for a dollar “
Jay
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5687



View Profile
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2019, 07:01:46 PM »

Amen. But then again, their worst(SIP) is often worse than another group's entire catalogue.  LOL
Logged

A son of anarchy surrounded by the hierarchy.
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
The Dr. of Wilsonomics
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 10838


🍦🍦My daughter and I -23 Dec 2018 ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2019, 07:46:17 PM »

That’s also true!
Logged

RIP Alexa Lestage (8 May 1995- 10 June 2018) .

https://www.gofundme.com/help-support-the-jurkowlaniecs

Quote
Lady:”Sir why you are drowning my son!!! “
Guy:“Maa’m, the ad clearly reads...SEA horse rides for a dollar “
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4363


View Profile WWW
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2019, 08:17:20 PM »

To my point regarding how a non-instrumentalist can come up with song which is then fleshed out by a skilled instrumentalist-arranger, here is a quote from Christine McVie regarding the Nicks composition "Dreams":
“When Stevie first played it for me on the piano, it was just three chords and one note in the left hand,” she said. “But the Lindsey genius came into play and he fashioned three sections out of identical chords, making each section sound completely different.”

I'm sure it's much the same when Mike writes a song on his own:  it's quite simple it's basic form, but whoever arranges it puts it into a more finshed state, as was done with "Dreams".

Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8704


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2019, 08:33:35 AM »

When the band really, *really* needed new original material at various points in their history, where was Mike's songwriting prowess to offer the group something they needed? When the labels were demanding new music, if songwriting were that simple of a process to sketch out a few melodies and chords here and there, why wasn't it done to any degree of success or even to produce a commercially viable original song when the labels wanted one? The biggest success the band had up to 2012 was the song Kokomo that was not original and which had 4 co-writers (for which Mike takes more credit than what he actually did for that song).

Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4363


View Profile WWW
« Reply #56 on: July 18, 2019, 08:53:04 AM »

When the band really, *really* needed new original material at various points in their history, where was Mike's songwriting prowess to offer the group something they needed? When the labels were demanding new music, if songwriting were that simple of a process to sketch out a few melodies and chords here and there, why wasn't it done to any degree of success or even to produce a commercially viable original song when the labels wanted one? The biggest success the band had up to 2012 was the song Kokomo that was not original and which had 4 co-writers (for which Mike takes more credit than what he actually did for that song).



Not debating the first part of your post - I wouldn't ever claim that Mike has been a prolific melody-maker, and by his own admission his main conbtributions have been adding lyrics and sometimes bass vocal hooks to songs began by others - but for songs credited solely to him, like for instance "Big Sur", "Goin' To The Beach" and "Sumahama" - they certainly could have come into being in the above manner (Mike had the melody and lyrics, and probably simple three-note chord progressions to go behind them, after which a skilled instrumentalist fashioned the recorded arrangement). However, I do debate your statement that Mike takes more credit on the Beach Boys' version of "Kokomo" than what he deserves - not only did he come up with the "Aruba, Jamaica" hook (the one "earworm" part of the song that people always seem to sing along with), but also the lyrics for the second verse. I would definitely say that's worthy of one-fourth the songwriting credits, same as Terry got for composing the bit that Carl sings, and that Scott McKenzie got for whatever his contribution was.

On "Wouldn't It Be Nice", however, it's a different story - which is why I credit it thusly on my website: 
Music - Brian Wilson / Words - Tony Asher, title by Brian Wilson / Additional lyrics - Mike Love
Logged
Matt H
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1184



View Profile
« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2019, 01:04:44 PM »

When the band really, *really* needed new original material at various points in their history, where was Mike's songwriting prowess to offer the group something they needed? When the labels were demanding new music, if songwriting were that simple of a process to sketch out a few melodies and chords here and there, why wasn't it done to any degree of success or even to produce a commercially viable original song when the labels wanted one? The biggest success the band had up to 2012 was the song Kokomo that was not original and which had 4 co-writers (for which Mike takes more credit than what he actually did for that song).



Not debating the first part of your post - I wouldn't ever claim that Mike has been a prolific melody-maker, and by his own admission his main conbtributions have been adding lyrics and sometimes bass vocal hooks to songs began by others - but for songs credited solely to him, like for instance "Big Sur", "Goin' To The Beach" and "Sumahama" - they certainly could have come into being in the above manner (Mike had the melody and lyrics, and probably simple three-note chord progressions to go behind them, after which a skilled instrumentalist fashioned the recorded arrangement). However, I do debate your statement that Mike takes more credit on the Beach Boys' version of "Kokomo" than what he deserves - not only did he come up with the "Aruba, Jamaica" hook (the one "earworm" part of the song that people always seem to sing along with), but also the lyrics for the second verse. I would definitely say that's worthy of one-fourth the songwriting credits, same as Terry got for composing the bit that Carl sings, and that Scott McKenzie got for whatever his contribution was.

On "Wouldn't It Be Nice", however, it's a different story - which is why I credit it thusly on my website: 
Music - Brian Wilson / Words - Tony Asher, title by Brian Wilson / Additional lyrics - Mike Love


Agreed on Kokomo that he deserves 25% credit, except that in interviews he would talk about Kokomo as if he wrote the whole thing.  I have never heard him give credit to the other 3 songwriters.
Logged
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4363


View Profile WWW
« Reply #58 on: July 18, 2019, 01:44:00 PM »

When the band really, *really* needed new original material at various points in their history, where was Mike's songwriting prowess to offer the group something they needed? When the labels were demanding new music, if songwriting were that simple of a process to sketch out a few melodies and chords here and there, why wasn't it done to any degree of success or even to produce a commercially viable original song when the labels wanted one? The biggest success the band had up to 2012 was the song Kokomo that was not original and which had 4 co-writers (for which Mike takes more credit than what he actually did for that song).



Not debating the first part of your post - I wouldn't ever claim that Mike has been a prolific melody-maker, and by his own admission his main conbtributions have been adding lyrics and sometimes bass vocal hooks to songs began by others - but for songs credited solely to him, like for instance "Big Sur", "Goin' To The Beach" and "Sumahama" - they certainly could have come into being in the above manner (Mike had the melody and lyrics, and probably simple three-note chord progressions to go behind them, after which a skilled instrumentalist fashioned the recorded arrangement). However, I do debate your statement that Mike takes more credit on the Beach Boys' version of "Kokomo" than what he deserves - not only did he come up with the "Aruba, Jamaica" hook (the one "earworm" part of the song that people always seem to sing along with), but also the lyrics for the second verse. I would definitely say that's worthy of one-fourth the songwriting credits, same as Terry got for composing the bit that Carl sings, and that Scott McKenzie got for whatever his contribution was.

On "Wouldn't It Be Nice", however, it's a different story - which is why I credit it thusly on my website: 
Music - Brian Wilson / Words - Tony Asher, title by Brian Wilson / Additional lyrics - Mike Love


Agreed on Kokomo that he deserves 25% credit, except that in interviews he would talk about Kokomo as if he wrote the whole thing.  I have never heard him give credit to the other 3 songwriters.

Mike has talked about how he took John Phillip's original composition, changed the tempo and the tense, added that bass vocal hookline, and wrote new lyrics for the second verse. He's also mentioned Terry Melcher's contribution, and stated he doesn't know what Scott McKenzie contributed. But yes, in many interviews Mike will remind us how he made "Kokomo" the commercial hit it is (which is true, from a rewrite standpoint - but I'd also credit its success in part to Terry, for producing it, and Van Dyke, for bringing in musicians like Ry Cooder and Jim Keltner, and the steel drum players - and of course credit should go to Carl, Al, and Bruce for singing some great vocals on the thing). He'll also remind us of how he took Brian's avant garde masterpiece "Good Vibrations" and made it a commercially viable boy-girl pop hit. On that one, we know that Tony Asher's original, unused lyrics also explored a boy-girl theme, so it's hard to say if it would've been as big a hit without Mike's lyrics (which, objectively, I think are better than Tony's), but I think it would've come close, no matter what.
Logged
Jay
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5687



View Profile
« Reply #59 on: July 18, 2019, 02:30:29 PM »

I don't know who wrote it, but I  consider the line "I don't know where, but she sends me there" to be one of the greatest song lyrics ever written. It's so simple and to the point. It's slightly sappy, but in a romantic way. And it's ever so slightly psychedelic, and esoteric.
Logged

A son of anarchy surrounded by the hierarchy.
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4363


View Profile WWW
« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2019, 02:36:42 PM »

I don't know who wrote it, but I  consider the line "I don't know where, but she sends me there" to be one of the greatest song lyrics ever written. It's so simple and to the point. It's slightly sappy, but in a romantic way. And it's ever so slightly psychedelic, and esoteric.

Agree wholeheartedly.
Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8704


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #61 on: July 18, 2019, 06:00:57 PM »

When the band really, *really* needed new original material at various points in their history, where was Mike's songwriting prowess to offer the group something they needed? When the labels were demanding new music, if songwriting were that simple of a process to sketch out a few melodies and chords here and there, why wasn't it done to any degree of success or even to produce a commercially viable original song when the labels wanted one? The biggest success the band had up to 2012 was the song Kokomo that was not original and which had 4 co-writers (for which Mike takes more credit than what he actually did for that song).



Not debating the first part of your post - I wouldn't ever claim that Mike has been a prolific melody-maker, and by his own admission his main conbtributions have been adding lyrics and sometimes bass vocal hooks to songs began by others - but for songs credited solely to him, like for instance "Big Sur", "Goin' To The Beach" and "Sumahama" - they certainly could have come into being in the above manner (Mike had the melody and lyrics, and probably simple three-note chord progressions to go behind them, after which a skilled instrumentalist fashioned the recorded arrangement). However, I do debate your statement that Mike takes more credit on the Beach Boys' version of "Kokomo" than what he deserves - not only did he come up with the "Aruba, Jamaica" hook (the one "earworm" part of the song that people always seem to sing along with), but also the lyrics for the second verse. I would definitely say that's worthy of one-fourth the songwriting credits, same as Terry got for composing the bit that Carl sings, and that Scott McKenzie got for whatever his contribution was.

On "Wouldn't It Be Nice", however, it's a different story - which is why I credit it thusly on my website: 
Music - Brian Wilson / Words - Tony Asher, title by Brian Wilson / Additional lyrics - Mike Love



Not as focused on the published credits on Kokomo as much as the multitude of interviews Mike has given where he gives the impression that *he* wrote Kokomo, or was responsible for it, when that's not the reality of how the song came about.

Matt H's post beat me to it earlier - Having read literally dozens if not into the hundreds of Mike's interviews, he rarely mentioned Melcher or Phillips related to Kokomo, let alone gave them a nod of credit for their contributions, and that was the norm for Mike talking about Kokomo when interviewed. Mike usually leaves out both Phillips who wrote the original version and Melcher, especially, since he was the one that solicited the tune from Phillips and brought it to the band, and was one of the 4 co-writers besides producing the track. If Mike had given him/them more credit over the years, myself and Matt H and other fans wouldn't raise it as an issue of Mike implying or seeming to take the majority of credit for it, which he does not deserve.

And then there is this: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8284.msg137316.html#msg137316

The reason why it is thirteen pages is because Mike has proclaimed himself the savoir of the Beach Boys at the expense of the other members.



What interview or press release are you referring to where Mike "proclaimed himself the savior of the Beach Boys"?


"Proclamation" might be a poor word choice but we need go no further than "The Beach Boys: An American Family" or the quote from the Capital bio: "In 1974 Mike Love’s concept album Endless Summer ignited a second generation of Beach Boys fans and stirred a tempest that rocked the music world."
Everyone knows that Endles Summer is a compilation of Brian Wilson tunes, with several lyricists.

Does it also bother you when it's said that Mike wrote the lyrics to teh Beach Boys' biggest single? People will still know that Brian wrote the tune.

Brian had exactly nothing to do with any aspect of "the Beach Boys biggest single"... and Mike wrote very little of the lyric.
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
BananaLouie
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 253


Columnated ruins domino


View Profile
« Reply #62 on: July 19, 2019, 06:12:39 AM »

Regarding Love/Melcher compositions like Getcha Back, Still Cruisin and Rock and Roll To The Rescue is it safe to say Terry wrote most of the music or was it more of a 50/50 thing?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 06:14:30 AM by BananaLouie » Logged

"I'm not a genius. I'm just a hard working guy." - Brian Wilson
Magic Transistor Radio
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2893


Bill Cooper Mystery Babylon


View Profile
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2019, 06:34:49 AM »

Quote
I think it is true that Mike wrote the r&b style verses of "Anna Lee." I am less sure about "All I Wanna Do."
Agree, magie, AIWD isn't the type song Mike could be capable to write. & AL got simplistic melody in verses that fits Mike. Mike's main strength is lyrics, there he made impressive things.

Actually,  I think Mike could have come up with all the melody and words to a song like AIWD and LTWB. Then Brian arranged it. Think about what Sloop John B was before Brian took off with it. And just because Mike couldn't preform on the piano or guitar doesn't mean he isn't familiar enough with the chords to write a song. I'm not saying he did. I really don't know.
Logged

"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4363


View Profile WWW
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2019, 09:24:37 AM »

Regarding Love/Melcher compositions like Getcha Back, Still Cruisin and Rock and Roll To The Rescue is it safe to say Terry wrote most of the music or was it more of a 50/50 thing?

I remember Terry saying in an interview (with Beach Boys Australia, I believe) something that writing with Mike was a bit like a karate match - which I took to mean there was a lot of back-and-forth, and sometimes sparring.
Logged
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4898



View Profile
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2019, 10:37:55 AM »


Not as focused on the published credits on Kokomo as much as the multitude of interviews Mike has given where he gives the impression that *he* wrote Kokomo, or was responsible for it, when that's not the reality of how the song came about.

Matt H's post beat me to it earlier - Having read literally dozens if not into the hundreds of Mike's interviews, he rarely mentioned Melcher or Phillips related to Kokomo, let alone gave them a nod of credit for their contributions, and that was the norm for Mike talking about Kokomo when interviewed. Mike usually leaves out both Phillips who wrote the original version and Melcher, especially, since he was the one that solicited the tune from Phillips and brought it to the band, and was one of the 4 co-writers besides producing the track. If Mike had given him/them more credit over the years, myself and Matt H and other fans wouldn't raise it as an issue of Mike implying or seeming to take the majority of credit for it, which he does not deserve.  

I'm almost surprised that in Phillips' lifetime, that Phillips never publicly made a stink about Mike giving the impression in interviews of hogging credits for Kokomo. I mean, that's what Mike would do if the shoe was on the other foot. I guess Phillips was a train wreck and was focused on other things, and/or he gave no f*cks about the song or Mike. But the point being that yes, I concur that Mike's endless interviews proclaiming his massive contributions to the world of music due to Kokomo are both off-putting *and* inaccurate.

That said, I'll certainly agree the song is catchy and I don't doubt that Mike was a part of why that is. Mike deserves credit, but it's his endless bragging that is off-putting and makes people less likely to want to praise him. Which surely must be the opposite of what he wants.  I like Kokomo, even if that's an unpopular opinion. I think it's one of Mike's better vocals.

Sadly, I think Mike is mainly most proud of bragging about Kokomo for the fact that the song was a hit that Mike cowrote and most importantly *doesn't* have writing contributions by Brian.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 10:44:31 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
Don Malcolm
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 802



View Profile
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2019, 11:29:41 AM »

I mean, really, after 25+ years of hanging around as the lead singer in a band returning to the charts (talking 1961 to "Kokomo" here...), it might be possible for a guy to write a song or two on his own.

Which is just about what Mike did: a song or two.

He seems to be good at tweaking works in progress, and he did progress past the "tight teen lyrics" of the early days--at least for awhile.

"Good Vibrations" is just about the only time that Mike was in on the creative process of a song that mattered to Brian in terms of his personal artistry. (The major exception: "The Warmth of the Sun.") Early on in the process he was routinely bypassed for someone else who brought a different take on the material that Brian clearly responded to in ways that pointed toward musical growth and (often, not always) greater emotional maturity/depth.

The "sparring" that Melcher referenced is probably a variant of the dynamic that Brian didn't enjoy in his work sessions with Mike, which is likely why they became less and less frequent.

And that continuing separation is probably a lot of the reason why Mike remains so elated about the success of "Kokomo" and uses it to justify those never-ending claims that the band would be back on top if Brian would just get in a room with him and work "just like the old days."
Logged
The LEGENDARY OSD
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1772

luHv Estrangement Syndrome. It's a great thing!


View Profile
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2019, 11:33:31 AM »


Not as focused on the published credits on Kokomo as much as the multitude of interviews Mike has given where he gives the impression that *he* wrote Kokomo, or was responsible for it, when that's not the reality of how the song came about.

Matt H's post beat me to it earlier - Having read literally dozens if not into the hundreds of Mike's interviews, he rarely mentioned Melcher or Phillips related to Kokomo, let alone gave them a nod of credit for their contributions, and that was the norm for Mike talking about Kokomo when interviewed. Mike usually leaves out both Phillips who wrote the original version and Melcher, especially, since he was the one that solicited the tune from Phillips and brought it to the band, and was one of the 4 co-writers besides producing the track. If Mike had given him/them more credit over the years, myself and Matt H and other fans wouldn't raise it as an issue of Mike implying or seeming to take the majority of credit for it, which he does not deserve.  

I'm almost surprised that in Phillips' lifetime, that Phillips never publicly made a stink about Mike giving the impression in interviews of hogging credits for Kokomo. I mean, that's what Mike would do if the shoe was on the other foot. I guess Phillips was a train wreck and was focused on other things, and/or he gave no f*cks about the song or Mike. But the point being that yes, I concur that Mike's endless interviews proclaiming his massive contributions to the world of music due to Kokomo are both off-putting *and* inaccurate.

That said, I'll certainly agree the song is catchy and I don't doubt that Mike was a part of why that is. Mike deserves credit, but it's his endless bragging that is off-putting and makes people less likely to want to praise him. Which surely must be the opposite of what he wants.  I like Kokomo, even if that's an unpopular opinion. I think it's one of Mike's better vocals.

Sadly, I think Mike is mainly most proud of bragging about Kokomo for the fact that the song was a hit that Mike cowrote and most importantly *doesn't* have writing contributions by Brian.

And CD, you were asking me to give reasons why I don't like the lovester? Well, there you go with one of his many traits that add up to him being a D'Bag.
Logged

myKe luHv, the most hated, embarrassing clown the world of music has ever witnessed.
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4898



View Profile
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2019, 11:35:10 AM »



"Good Vibrations" is just about the only time that Mike was in on the creative process of a song that mattered to Brian in terms of his personal artistry. (The major exception: "The Warmth of the Sun.") Early on in the process he was routinely bypassed for someone else who brought a different take on the material that Brian clearly responded to in ways that pointed toward musical growth and (often, not always) greater emotional maturity/depth.

I wouldn't say that... how about Please Let Me Wonder or Kiss Me Baby? Those are pretty bold expressions of artistic growth for 1964 that Mike contributed to (how much Mike contributed is a good question which I don't have the answer for).
Logged
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4898



View Profile
« Reply #69 on: July 19, 2019, 11:43:07 AM »


Not as focused on the published credits on Kokomo as much as the multitude of interviews Mike has given where he gives the impression that *he* wrote Kokomo, or was responsible for it, when that's not the reality of how the song came about.

Matt H's post beat me to it earlier - Having read literally dozens if not into the hundreds of Mike's interviews, he rarely mentioned Melcher or Phillips related to Kokomo, let alone gave them a nod of credit for their contributions, and that was the norm for Mike talking about Kokomo when interviewed. Mike usually leaves out both Phillips who wrote the original version and Melcher, especially, since he was the one that solicited the tune from Phillips and brought it to the band, and was one of the 4 co-writers besides producing the track. If Mike had given him/them more credit over the years, myself and Matt H and other fans wouldn't raise it as an issue of Mike implying or seeming to take the majority of credit for it, which he does not deserve.  

I'm almost surprised that in Phillips' lifetime, that Phillips never publicly made a stink about Mike giving the impression in interviews of hogging credits for Kokomo. I mean, that's what Mike would do if the shoe was on the other foot. I guess Phillips was a train wreck and was focused on other things, and/or he gave no f*cks about the song or Mike. But the point being that yes, I concur that Mike's endless interviews proclaiming his massive contributions to the world of music due to Kokomo are both off-putting *and* inaccurate.

That said, I'll certainly agree the song is catchy and I don't doubt that Mike was a part of why that is. Mike deserves credit, but it's his endless bragging that is off-putting and makes people less likely to want to praise him. Which surely must be the opposite of what he wants.  I like Kokomo, even if that's an unpopular opinion. I think it's one of Mike's better vocals.

Sadly, I think Mike is mainly most proud of bragging about Kokomo for the fact that the song was a hit that Mike cowrote and most importantly *doesn't* have writing contributions by Brian.

And CD, you were asking me to give reasons why I don't like the lovester? Well, there you go with one of his many traits that add up to him being a D'Bag.

OSD, I certainly won't argue about the many, many things that Mike has done that are off-putting to say the least. But again, those things (as plentiful and cringe-inducing as they may be) don't cancel out his contributions to a song such as Please Let Me Wonder, which is IMO 100% perfect as is.

Mike can often (or even almost exclusively, depending on your viewpoint) act like a jerk, and also have made some undeniably good contributions to the artistic tapestry of this band. The two are not mutually exclusive, you know? Wouldn't you agree?

That said, if you have the viewpoint that Brian could have arrived at similar artistic points in his growth as an artist without Mike having been present, I wouldn't necessarily argue against that point of view. Considering the positives that Mike contributed to songs, either lyrically and/or vocally (and there are many), nobody should say that those contributions are negligible or crap. Even if you hate Mike's actions as a human.

In fact, I'd even wager that there are moments on some Wilson/Love songs that maybe have given you the "feels" in an emotional way, which may have turned out to be contributions by Mike! Finding that out might feel a bit like the scene in Empire Strikes Back where Luke screams and can't believe that the person he so hates is 50% of his DNA, but for better (and sometimes certainly for worse), Mike's contributions are part of some excellent songs, and all the d-baggery in the world can't make that not the case. I get it though, it's a complex situation.

But let's be real here. Unless you can say that Warmth of the Sun, Please Let Me Wonder, and almost all of Wild Honey are deficient in some artistic way, then you have to at least give Mike credit for having added some good stuff here and there.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 11:44:43 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
The LEGENDARY OSD
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1772

luHv Estrangement Syndrome. It's a great thing!


View Profile
« Reply #70 on: July 19, 2019, 12:11:43 PM »


CD, I wasn't really speaking of his "contributions" but as long as it was brought up, there's another irritable trait of his. He is definitely the poster boy for blowing his own horn which is a pathetic symptom of his never ending, overblown ego problems. As Don said, he must be a real tool to collaborate with.  No wonder Brian doesn't want anything to do with him.
Logged

myKe luHv, the most hated, embarrassing clown the world of music has ever witnessed.
Love Thang
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 75


Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen


View Profile
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2019, 12:54:24 AM »

Have you ever seen another clown wear hats and shirts with their own name on it? The Lovester is a tool.
Logged
RangeRoverA1
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4211


I drink expired tea. wanna sip or spit?


View Profile
« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2019, 04:04:04 PM »

Mike has been playing keyboard/piano since he was a child.
Hey mag' - wonder why he didn't showcase his "trained since childhood" piano skills. Tongue Cheesy
Logged

Short notice: the cat you see to the left is the best. Not counting your indoor cat who might have habit sitting at your left side when you post at SmileySmile.

Gene Tierney is beautiful. She's talented.

"Broiler Brunch" - check in theaters new fam TV series! Better than since Bradys!
gfx
Pages: 1 2 [3] Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.131 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!