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647564 Posts in 25906 Topics by 3700 Members - Latest Member: BigRed June 18, 2019, 06:03:45 AM
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Author Topic: Brian postponing tour the day before it starts.  (Read 3230 times)
HeyJude
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« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2019, 12:01:20 PM »

Nobody can even being to say whether anything involved in this amounts to dementia. We don't have enough details, and even if we did, we're not doctors who could say what criteria would need to be met to use that term.

But I do think "mental issues causing Brian to say things he doesn't mean", while certainly open to interpretation, is something that, the way I read his statement, seems to potentially be beyond essentially the "mental pain" equivalent of yelling at people because of physical pain. Meaning, I read his statement as meaning he's saying things beyond his control and understanding, rather than being fed up with mental (or physical) pain and just lashing out.

But I think it's a good idea not to get bogged down at this time with using the specific term like "dementia." It potentially incorrectly characterizes what's going on, and also can lead to sort of the opposite effect where someone (potentially rightly) may point out that that term is incorrect, but then some take that to mean there is nothing serious going on. There may be (well, there *is* I think by Brian's own indication) something serious mentally going on, and it's important to keep the characterization of that as being as serious as it needs to be by *not* trying to ascribe one specific term/condition to it.
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« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2019, 12:03:59 PM »

I'm a strong believer in mindbody issues, and lingering (chronic) pain, often back pain, having a psychosomatic origin often times. Even when doctors say otherwise and claim that a physical abnormality detected on an X-ray is causing pain. At the end of the day, doctors (even super experienced ones with the best of intentions) are really just guessing. They're not necessarily by definition correct.

I say this because I myself was greatly helped by reading books by Dr. John Sarno (in particular, "The Mindbody Prescription"). Sarno was a doctor who had no problem dismissing other doctors' findings - and Sarno was usually right on the money with his own diagnoses.

I certainly don't want to sound like an informercial, just stating my own experience here, as I believe it very well could relate to Brian's issues.

Having gone through lingering pain myself, I would not be at all surprised if much of Brian's back pain had an emotional origin (this is not in *any* way dismissing the pain - I completely believe Brian was/is experiencing pain), but I just hope that doctors operating on his back for a *third* time in about a year would have taken this in to consideration beforehand. Sadly, the medical industry is largely very dismissive of the teachings of Sarno (there's an episode of 20/20 - not the BBs album, but the ABC news show - from 1999 on Youtube that goes into detail about Sarno's methods).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsR4wydiIBI

In any case, I hope Brian's spirits are lifted by knowing how many people are pulling for him right now.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 12:12:27 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2019, 12:06:30 PM »

Iím at a loss right now and I really donít know what  to say really.  The manís my idol and not just musically, but  glad heís taking time for himself.  I could tell it wasnít just his back , that he was dealing with some sh*t.  I admire the fact that heís saying whatís really going on, because it wouldíve been easy to say it was his back.  But heís got this, I know he does.  From what he said it seemed like it got real bad after his third back surgery. I wouldnít be surprised if his pain medications were messing with his other medications. From current personal experience I know there can be interference , and if an adjustment had been made he may need time off for that. If youíre in medication for mental illness it can be a crapshoot.

While I'm very much not into trying to wring some sort of pie in the sky scenario out of this where it isn't as serious as it seems to be, I do think a connection to his surgery could indicate that some of his issues could have been exacerbated by that surgery, either directly or indirectly. The issue with having to change around medications could certainly be a cause or at least something that inflames whatever else is going on. And, while I'm no doctor, I have heard of cases where people go in for surgeries for some sort of physical malady, and they come out of it with some mental after-effects due to a huge spectrum of possible reasons (anesthesia, not enough medication, too much medication, PTSD-type trauma).

I can only guess this is a hugely challenging situation for all involved, as there are lot of conditions and issues that are co-morbid, and also the opposite. I'm not saying he has anything along the lines of dementia, but if someone had a pre-existing mental illness and then *completely separately* developed some other mental condition (whether age-related or otherwise), that would make everything more complicated and murky.
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« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2019, 12:19:57 PM »

Not even going to try to be an armchair analyst here -- I'm sending my love and prayers out for Brian and his well-being.

 Love 
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« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2019, 12:21:01 PM »

I'm a strong believer in mindbody issues, and lingering (chronic) pain, often back pain, having a psychosomatic origin often times. Even when doctors say otherwise and claim that a physical abnormality detected on an X-ray is causing pain. At the end of the day, doctors (even super experienced ones with the best of intentions) are really just guessing. They're not necessarily by definition correct.

I say this because I myself was greatly helped by reading books by Dr. John Sarno (in particular, "The Mindbody Prescription").

I certainly don't want to sound like an informercial, just stating my own experience here, as I believe it very well could relate to Brian's issues.

Having gone through lingering pain myself, I would not be at all surprised if much of Brian's back pain had an emotional origin (this is not in *any* way dismissing the pain - I completely believe Brian was/is experiencing pain), but I just hope that doctors operating on his back for a *third* time in about a year would have taken this in to consideration beforehand. Sadly, the medical industry is largely very dismissive of the teachings of Sarno (there's an episode of 20/20 - not the BBs album, but the ABC news show - from 1999 on Youtube that goes into detail about Sarno's methods).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsR4wydiIBI

In any case, I hope Brian's spirits are lifted by knowing how many people are pulling for him right now.

I love your contributions here, and I know a long while back some other Brian-related thread already hashed out the "psychosomatic" issue/debate. So while I don't want to dredge all that up again, I can only reiterate that while what you're describing can certainly be a factor in some types of non-specific, general "chronic back pain", and while fame of mind and psychology can absolutely impact how someone deals with pain and how they feel pain, I also think when it gets to the the point where there's a long family history of diagnosed, documented back maladies (as is the case with the Wilsons), and a detailed CT and other scans (in addition to x-rays) show outright physical injuries/problems (e.g. bulging/herniated discs, genetic deformations, etc.), it's not really a "mind over matter" situation on the front end of dealing with it.

In coping with the aftermath of surgeries and painful conditions (all surely done in consultation with what I can only imagine are top specialists in those fields), attitude and emotional well being play a crucial role, no question.

But no, if someone does scans that show blown-out or herniated discs pressing up against nerves, which in turn specifically cause secondary problems (including leg strength, walking, potentially bowel/bladder control, etc.) the doctors are not really just guessing.

I'm sure Brian's doctors are not only well aware of his back condition, but also aware of the pros and cons of putting a near-80-year-old under multiple surgeries. I'm not saying doctors can't make mistakes; I have no idea how "elective" any of Brian's surgeries have been. I'd guess not so much, considering it is a big deal to put someone of his age through such surgeries.  
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 12:28:20 PM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2019, 12:29:46 PM »

No one else walks in this man's shoes and knows what's going on.

Maybe the best course of action is to simply wish him the best on the most basic human level, and let the public statement stand as what it is, rather than trying to find conspiracies or other hidden "facts" to challenge or dispute it. We've had more than enough of that nonsense to last several lifetimes in recent years...

Agreed. Prayers for Brian and his family, I hope he gets the treatment he needs.
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« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2019, 12:34:50 PM »

Iím at a loss right now and I really donít know what  to say really.  The manís my idol and not just musically, but  glad heís taking time for himself.  I could tell it wasnít just his back , that he was dealing with some sh*t.  I admire the fact that heís saying whatís really going on, because it wouldíve been easy to say it was his back.  But heís got this, I know he does.  From what he said it seemed like it got real bad after his third back surgery. I wouldnít be surprised if his pain medications were messing with his other medications. From current personal experience I know there can be interference , and if an adjustment had been made he may need time off for that. If youíre in medication for mental illness it can be a crapshoot.

While I'm very much not into trying to wring some sort of pie in the sky scenario out of this where it isn't as serious as it seems to be, I do think a connection to his surgery could indicate that some of his issues could have been exacerbated by that surgery, either directly or indirectly. The issue with having to change around medications could certainly be a cause or at least something that inflames whatever else is going on. And, while I'm no doctor, I have heard of cases where people go in for surgeries for some sort of physical malady, and they come out of it with some mental after-effects due to a huge spectrum of possible reasons (anesthesia, not enough medication, too much medication, PTSD-type trauma).

I can only guess this is a hugely challenging situation for all involved, as there are lot of conditions and issues that are co-morbid, and also the opposite. I'm not saying he has anything along the lines of dementia, but if someone had a pre-existing mental illness and then *completely separately* developed some other mental condition (whether age-related or otherwise), that would make everything more complicated and murky.

Yes, definitely, surgery can have an impact on mental health.  People often underestimate the effects of general anaesthesia, for one thing, and then you have issues such as medication interaction, or having to stop one medication to avoid an interaction with another, etc... The average 76-year old is on a lot of medication to start with; add medications to treat mental health issues and back pain and I would imagine you've got a very complicated situation, medication-wise.  

Also, ongoing physical health issues can have an impact on mental health as well.  Issues like pain and, perhaps even more problematic, increasing physical limitations, can have a profound effect on mental health.  

HeyJude is right that none of us is Brian's doctor and we can't do anything more than guess at what is going on.  But it's obvious that a 76-year old with a well-documented history of severe back issues as well as mental health issues makes for a very complicated medical situation.  It also makes you realize how strong Brian is to have been touring as much as he has the past few years.  
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« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2019, 12:37:44 PM »

I'm pretty farklempt, to be honest.  Not because my show was canceled (though I will miss seeing him, Al, Blondie, and the band), but because of the significance of his message.  He has been dealing with mental issues for most of his life.  Up until about 25 years ago, those issues either went untreated, or were treated with ineffective or harmful methods.   His mental issues weren't even spoken of publicly in any way until the stuff about Landy started coming out in the 80s/90s.   But now, he's in a place where he can speak openly and honestly about what is going on.  The message could have easily just been about having back problems, or just even say it's health-related without going into detail.  This is consistent with how so many other celebrities have spoken about their own mental health - the more the public hears things like this, the more normalized it becomes.  He knows we can handle it, and that we still love him.  
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« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2019, 12:45:34 PM »

I tend to remain pretty rooted in staying realistic about things, so I'm not particularly into trying to find some far-fetched interpretation of all of this that indicates it's *not* serious.

However, one *very minor* "glass half full" point I can think of is that, if *up until* a few days ago they all thought Brian maybe *could* do the shows, then that's a sliver of hope that the overall situation is not as drastic/dire/far-gone as our worst fears might lead us to wonder about.
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« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2019, 12:50:03 PM »

I'm a strong believer in mindbody issues, and lingering (chronic) pain, often back pain, having a psychosomatic origin often times. Even when doctors say otherwise and claim that a physical abnormality detected on an X-ray is causing pain. At the end of the day, doctors (even super experienced ones with the best of intentions) are really just guessing. They're not necessarily by definition correct.

I say this because I myself was greatly helped by reading books by Dr. John Sarno (in particular, "The Mindbody Prescription").

I certainly don't want to sound like an informercial, just stating my own experience here, as I believe it very well could relate to Brian's issues.

Having gone through lingering pain myself, I would not be at all surprised if much of Brian's back pain had an emotional origin (this is not in *any* way dismissing the pain - I completely believe Brian was/is experiencing pain), but I just hope that doctors operating on his back for a *third* time in about a year would have taken this in to consideration beforehand. Sadly, the medical industry is largely very dismissive of the teachings of Sarno (there's an episode of 20/20 - not the BBs album, but the ABC news show - from 1999 on Youtube that goes into detail about Sarno's methods).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsR4wydiIBI

In any case, I hope Brian's spirits are lifted by knowing how many people are pulling for him right now.

I love your contributions here, and I know a long while back some other Brian-related thread already hashed out the "psychosomatic" issue/debate. So while I don't want to dredge all that up again, I can only reiterate that while what you're describing can certainly be a factor in some types of non-specific, general "chronic back pain", and while fame of mind and psychology can absolutely impact how someone deals with pain and how they feel pain, I also think when it gets to the the point where there's a long family history of diagnosed, documented back maladies (as is the case with the Wilsons), and a detailed CT and other scans (in addition to x-rays) show outright physical injuries/problems (e.g. bulging/herniated discs, genetic deformations, etc.), it's not really a "mind over matter" situation on the front end of dealing with it.

In coping with the aftermath of surgeries and painful conditions (all surely done in consultation with what I can only imagine are top specialists in those fields), attitude and emotional well being play a crucial role, no question.

But no, if someone does scans that show blown-out or herniated discs pressing up against nerves, which in turn specifically cause secondary problems (including leg strength, walking, potentially bowel/bladder control, etc.) the doctors are not really just guessing.

I'm sure Brian's doctors are not only well aware of his back condition, but also aware of the pros and cons of putting a near-80-year-old under multiple surgeries. I'm not saying doctors can't make mistakes; I have no idea how "elective" any of Brian's surgeries have been. I'd guess not so much, considering it is a big deal to put someone of his age through such surgeries.  

HeyJude, thanks and I understand what you're saying - and I won't claim to be any sort of authority on the subject whatsoever. I'm no doctor. And of course, I could be completely wrong in even assuming this could be what's going on here.  

I'd add that my hunch is that it *could* possibly be a contributing factor to Brian's pain lingering, and not necessarily the root cause.  I certainly won't claim to know the true answer here though.

My only two cents regarding what you mentioned (X-rays showing bulging/herniated discs, genetic deformations, etc.) would be to watch the Youtube 20/20 video link I posted above, and see what Sarno said on video directly addressing that sort of subject. It's really worth watching. To briefly paraphrase what Sarno actually said, sometimes abnormalities that are called out on an X-ray by a doctor actually mean nothing whatsoever.

Again, this is just some assuming on my part that it could have bearing in Brian's case.

Yet I just don't happen to think that nearly enough people take Sarno's teachings seriously enough, especially when an expert doctor says "this here x-ray clearly visually shows what's causing your pain"... it's very hard for someone to hear that from a team of respected doctors, and to then outright poopoo that diagnosis and take a chance on the teachings of Sarno, whose methods are not exactly accepted by the mainstream.  

Possibly it could be extra especially hard for Brian or Melinda to be able to even consider a non-mainstream doctor like that (Sarno is dismissed as a quack by some) being that Brian dealt with so much awful stuff from an actual unquestionable quack named Landy. Hell, if I'd went through the Landy crap myself, I might be extra hesitant to lean into the teachings of someone else whose methods are unorthodox (even though in a completely different way/context).

Lastly, I'll also add that if I hadn't personally been cured using the Sarno method (same with my coworker, after I lent her my book!), I'd also likely be equally as reluctant to believe Sarno's ideas could potentially apply to Brian's case. I'll admit I'm a bit biased in my beliefs of what is possible in this case.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 12:59:24 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2019, 01:00:20 PM »

I think the main thing to take away from the statement is that it specifically states that his back problem is getting better. As we've been saying, an easy out would be to say it's a case of continuing back problems, end of story.

The statement, amazingly potentially frankly and openly, seems to specifically outline that post-surgery Brian is having mental/emotional issues.

It's sort of potentially the opposite of the "emotions causing physical pain" theory. It sounds more like pain led to diagnosis of injury and subsequent surgery, surgery helped to fix the pain/strength/mobility, and the surgery may have caused or exacerbated an emotional/mental issue.

I'm not even sure the statement means to draw a direct corollary between the surgery and his current problems. I would imagine one of many possibilities doctors would look into is not only that surgery-related things are causing this, but that the surgery is unrelated to these issues.

Either way, whatever is currently causing him problems seems, by all indication and accounts, to not be caused directly by physical pain from his back problems.
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« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2019, 01:07:57 PM »

I think the main thing to take away from the statement is that it specifically states that his back problem is getting better. As we've been saying, an easy out would be to say it's a case of continuing back problems, end of story.

The statement, amazingly potentially frankly and openly, seems to specifically outline that post-surgery Brian is having mental/emotional issues.

It's sort of potentially the opposite of the "emotions causing physical pain" theory. It sounds more like pain led to diagnosis of injury and subsequent surgery, surgery helped to fix the pain/strength/mobility, and the surgery may have caused or exacerbated an emotional/mental issue.

I'm not even sure the statement means to draw a direct corollary between the surgery and his current problems. I would imagine one of many possibilities doctors would look into is not only that surgery-related things are causing this, but that the surgery is unrelated to these issues.

Either way, whatever is currently causing him problems seems, by all indication and accounts, to not be caused directly by physical pain from his back problems.

I hear ya. In any case, itís remarkably brave for Brian to be so candid in his post. I hope this sets a precedent for people in general to further de-stigmatize mental illness.

In addition to the many musical accolades that Brian has rightfully received in his career, the guy should be known as a pioneer (along with Melinda) in terms of bravely talking about his mental illness in great detail. Especially for a guy born in 1942, most people from that generation probably wouldnít be so candid.

Iím reminded about the Beautiful Dreamer documentary, where Brian was in a super bad place emotionally at band practice for the then-upcoming Smile debut performance.  Brave of him to allow that footage to be used in a documentary, warts and all, and brave of Brian in 2019 to be so candid about what heís going through now.

Sure hope he gets better soon.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 01:08:36 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2019, 01:12:21 PM »

I'm sad and frightened. I love the man and I wish him the best and more.
When it comes to back problems, I can't help but remember Prince and Tom Petty, and how dangerous these meds can be, specially if they happen to have interaction with Brian's meds for his mental illness. On the other side, Iīm pretty sure that Brian is in a more controlled environment than them. But what worries me more is that dreared D-word, I remember Peter Falk slipped into it after going through some dental procedures (that's the kind of cases HeyJude was referring to)
Anyway, I'm hoping/wishing/praying for a temporary state brought by the aftermath of his last surgery.

BTW, anybody knows when Brian did have his last back surgery?
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« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2019, 01:35:36 PM »

 
Is there a recent interview, or do we know of any interview coming out soon, where Brian might have said something he didn't mean?

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« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2019, 01:56:04 PM »


Is there a recent interview, or do we know of any interview coming out soon, where Brian might have said something he didn't mean?



I don't think that's what the statement is talking about. I think the statement is referring to in-person comments in daily life.

Again, I always await further info, though don't expect any, but I don't think what's being described is a "I don't think what I said was interpreted correctly" situation nor a "I called someone a name or was curt with someone in conversation and regret it" situation or something like that.

I don't think it's a good idea to attempt to ascertain anything in more detail given scant information, but my impression is that what's being discussed is more a "saying things outside of one's control" situation. Just my impression of course.
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« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2019, 03:05:49 PM »

I think the narrative (though not necessarily intentional) these past 20 years has been, "Brian has dealt with mental illness all his life, but now he's got a great treatment plan and even though he has bad days, he's so much better and productive, and living life, etc." Well, I think in many ways, even though we know mental illness is chronic and not usually "resolved," we wanted to think that Brian had mostly conquered his demons because we all like a happy ending. And of course, we all love him and just want him to be at peace. But of course, nothing's that simple. What I'm happy about is that he was able to say (along with his family), "I need to just stop working and do what's best for my health."

And once again, the honesty of his statement is totally disarming and also just...your heart goes out to him.
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« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2019, 03:06:51 PM »

Mike just posted on Facebook:

Today, I read a message shared by my cousin Brian. My heart is swollen with love, compassion, concern, and thoughtful well wishes for a speedy recovery. Brian, you have fought bravely your battle with mental illness, I have no doubts that you will triumph and move gracefully past this speed bump. Let the music that lives deeply inside you carry you to your highest beautiful self, I will carry you in music every night we perform. I am cheering for you!Ē

I Love You Cuz and I hope and pray to see you soon.

Peace & Love
Cousin Mike


Very nice message. I love the sentiment that Mike and band will carry Brian in music.
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« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2019, 04:19:23 PM »

Nobody can even being to say whether anything involved in this amounts to dementia. We don't have enough details, and even if we did, we're not doctors who could say what criteria would need to be met to use that term.

But I do think "mental issues causing Brian to say things he doesn't mean", while certainly open to interpretation, is something that, the way I read his statement, seems to potentially be beyond essentially the "mental pain" equivalent of yelling at people because of physical pain. Meaning, I read his statement as meaning he's saying things beyond his control and understanding, rather than being fed up with mental (or physical) pain and just lashing out.

But I think it's a good idea not to get bogged down at this time with using the specific term like "dementia." It potentially incorrectly characterizes what's going on, and also can lead to sort of the opposite effect where someone (potentially rightly) may point out that that term is incorrect, but then some take that to mean there is nothing serious going on. There may be (well, there *is* I think by Brian's own indication) something serious mentally going on, and it's important to keep the characterization of that as being as serious as it needs to be by *not* trying to ascribe one specific term/condition to it.
Youíre right. I apologize for jumping to conclusions. Please know it was out of love and concern, and not anything sordid.
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« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2019, 05:50:02 PM »

I'm pretty farklempt, to be honest.  Not because my show was canceled (though I will miss seeing him, Al, Blondie, and the band), but because of the significance of his message.  He has been dealing with mental issues for most of his life.  Up until about 25 years ago, those issues either went untreated, or were treated with ineffective or harmful methods.   His mental issues weren't even spoken of publicly in any way until the stuff about Landy started coming out in the 80s/90s.   But now, he's in a place where he can speak openly and honestly about what is going on.  The message could have easily just been about having back problems, or just even say it's health-related without going into detail.  This is consistent with how so many other celebrities have spoken about their own mental health - the more the public hears things like this, the more normalized it becomes.  He knows we can handle it, and that we still love him.  

This is a lovely takeaway. I am so glad that he is open about it and also knows when it would be impossible to push through something. My heart breaks for him, but I'm glad he will be taken care of with his family and friends and not have to add the billion uncertainties that touring creates into the mix.
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« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2019, 05:57:28 PM »

Not even going to try to be an armchair analyst here -- I'm sending my love and prayers out for Brian and his well-being.

 Love 

Plus 1

All the best BDW
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« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2019, 06:19:00 PM »

This was long overdue. Brian, being Brian, pushed himself to do all these shows in recent years, knowing that a lot of band members, family, etc, were depending on the paychecks. But even an unselfish person like Brian finally reaches the point where he has to stand up for himself to - well, whoever. Finally the man can rest, and recover. I don't care if he tours again, I don't care if he records again, I just care that he is healthy and happy. He's lived through enough hell in his life already, he deserves to be able to do whatever he wants to do.
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Amy B.
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« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2019, 07:03:57 PM »

Carnie on Twitter:

@CarnieWilson
 2h2 hours ago
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Sending love and healing light to my Daddy @BrianWilsonLive I hope you can feel all the love around you. You are safe and loved. You can do it Dad!!! ❤️

47 replies 22 retweets 278 likes
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« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2019, 07:40:57 PM »

Best wishes Brian and get better!
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« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2019, 09:18:58 PM »

Huge bummer about the cancellations, but you could tell Brian was "off" during the recent shows. That one festival in Redondo Beach or wherever you could tell it wasn't the same Brian we got on the last tour.

I hope it's nothing serious and he'll be able to hit the road again soon but if not, the big guy deserves the retirement that his brothers and dad never got. Brian has given us so much already....
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The poster formerly known as stack-o-tracks
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« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2019, 09:36:11 PM »

I have enough great memories of seeing Brian onstage and music that he made to carry me through the rest of my life.

I hope will all my heart that Brian enjoys the rest of HIS life -- and realizes all the love he has earned and all the joy he's brought to the world.

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