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Author Topic: Music downloading creates listener apathy  (Read 8600 times)
TV Forces
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« on: January 10, 2006, 07:57:02 PM »

Amen!

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/01/10/060110164416.p4z0rnx6.html

Music downloading creates listener apathy

Internet downloading and MP3 players are creating a generation of people who do not seriously appreciate songs or musical performances, British researchers said.

"The accessibility of music has meant that it is taken for granted and does not require a deep emotional commitment once associated with music appreciation," said music psychologist Adrian North on Tuesday.

North led a team from the University of Leicester, central England, that monitored 346 people over two weeks to evaluate how they related to music.

They concluded that because of greater accessibility through mass media, music was nowadays seen more as a commodity that is produced, distributed and consumed like any other.

It could also account for the popularity of television talent competitions, particularly in Britain, which allow viewers from the "iPod generation" a rare chance to engage and appreciate music and live performances, they suggested.

"In the 19th century, music was seen as a highly valued treasure with fundamental and near-mystical powers of human communication," said North.

"The pace of technological change has accelerated further over the last 20 years or so and these fundamental changes in the nature of musical experience and value have arguably become even more pronounced.

"Because so much music of different styles and genres is now so widely available via portable MP3 players and the internet, it is arguable that people now actively use music in everyday listening contexts to a much greater extent than ever before.

"The degree of accessibility and choice has arguably led to a rather passive attitude towards music heard in everyday life.

"In short, our relationship to music in everyday life may well be complex and sophisticated, but it is not necessarily characterised by deep emotional investment."

The academic's assessment follows a warning last week from rock legend Pete Townshend, The Who guitarist, that listening to rock music on an MP3 player through headphones could cause deafness.
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Matinee Idyll
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2006, 08:42:09 PM »

Damn straight mate...

I find it more difficult to get into music that people have burnt onto an mp3 disc for me, or that I've downloaded * slaps wrists *

Yep, nothing like the feel of the parting money and the smell of the biscuit I say...
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Chance
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2006, 10:21:33 PM »

I'm of a mixed opinion. I totally agree with Mat's last comment, I just brought home three new, exciting albums tonight, it's a great feeling, the records become part of you, something you own. You devour the cover art and packaging, feel a thrill pulling the disc out of the case and transferring it to the player. But, having said that, I think the article makes a somewhat condescending argument. Did the advent of the free public library decimate people's ability to appreciate good literature? Having ten thousand books instantly lined up at your fingertips is a bad way to go about exploring the joys of reading?

It's like saying you'd appreciate the cinema so much more if you'd only take the time to walk to the theater.

And let me be the cranky geezer predictably asserting that the vast majority of the stuff that gets the lion's share of downloads these days doesn't merit "deep emotional commitment." It's almost reassuring to me that nobody takes the current musical climate more seriously than a trip through a McDonald's drive-thru.
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Matinee Idyll
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2006, 11:11:29 PM »

I love when you buy a new CD, bring it home, take the plastic wrapping off and the CD sticks just alittle bit when you try to pull it out... Guarantee of 'freshness'... where it takes just alittle effort to get it out of the case (the fear of it snapping in half is good I say Wink)

That's a fine point there Chance, regarding Libraries...  but again, it must be said that the CDs I borrow from libraries it takes longer for me to connect with...  If it's books... I dunno, some of the finest books I've ever read, I've borrowed from a library, and the best films I've seen were on video... 

I guess music's it's own thing...
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Mitchell
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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2006, 06:20:47 AM »

I feel like if I own it, I owe it to myself to listen to it and absorb it. This is not always the case, however. I have spent too much money on albums I only listened to once or twice.
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Joe
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« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2006, 06:36:33 AM »

Music is music - I love it on any format... 

Mp3 hasn't dimmed my appreciation of it in the slightest - then again I am from the "walkman generation" not the ipod gen that the article refers to.

Plenty of times I have had mistical experiences with mp3s

Quote
"The degree of accessibility and choice has arguably led to a rather passive attitude towards music heard in everyday life. "

This same accessibility has made my attitude towards music more involved,  and has broadened my musical education.


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GP1138
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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2006, 06:53:04 AM »

Absolute rubbish, bullshit, I say! 50% of the music I have is downloaded, and it hasn't decreased my appreciation of it one iota. It's all rock'n'roll (or other genre) music, and yes, it's nice to bring home the CD and unwrap the plastic, but after you realize that half your spending money is gone and you've overpaid for a piece of plastic that most of the revenue isn't even going to the artist that made it, you start to realize how nice it is to download the cover art and listen to it on your iPod. My iPod is my CD player, and my turntable. I shut off the lights, just as a lot of you do, and put my earbuds in, and listen to music that even you guys have turned me on to.

I'm sorry, there's no difference.
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mark goddard
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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2006, 06:55:15 AM »

i agree with this article 100 % ....i have a friend who burn's me stuff but i never get around to it , i have never been a big library fan. most of the book's i read i couldn't find in a library.
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Matinee Idyll
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« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2006, 07:04:04 AM »

most of the book's i read i couldn't find in a library.

...Excuse me ma'am, where do you keep your pornography?
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dude ll doo
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« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2006, 07:35:10 AM »

I would agree that the convenience of music has de-valued it somewhat.
But it's mostly the lack of quality product combined with that.
So I think this is more of a comment on the current music landscape of today and how their target audience (kids) experience and access it.
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Mitchell
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2006, 07:37:36 AM »

Really, all it means is that in 30 years, kids won't be able to root through their parent's music collections and find as many cool LPs and 45s (or even CDs). I guess it remains to be seen how people "hold on" to their music collections if they're purely digital.
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Old Rake
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« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2006, 07:42:12 AM »

My daughter "roots through" my iPod the same way she would root through a stack of vinyl. Finds cool stuff, listens to it over and over again, just like in previous generations.

There isn't the LEAST bit of luddite crankiness involved here, is there?  Wink

I agree with the folks above -- there's no difference. About 50% of my music right now is purely downloaded and I still have a major emotional investment in it. I still love to buy things at the store, I still shop at record stores, but I do a lotta downloading, and I've found plenty of gems that have become staples of my listening collection online.
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Jeff Mason
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« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2006, 07:50:21 AM »

Main diff to me:

silver CDs from 1985 are still playing well today.  Home burned CDs start decaying within five years.  Buying a CD is better at preserving it.  I wonder how easily the next gen will build a lasting library with personal technology.
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GP1138
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« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2006, 08:11:45 AM »

Main diff to me:

silver CDs from 1985 are still playing well today.  Home burned CDs start decaying within five years.  Buying a CD is better at preserving it.  I wonder how easily the next gen will build a lasting library with personal technology.

There will be a better way of doing things, and burned CD's aren't the only way to listen to music.

I myself hate burned CD's. That's why I got rid of my car CD/MP3 player, I had too much music, which resulted in me shuffling through literal stacks of burned CD's to find what I felt like listening to at that particular moment. That's why I have my iPod.
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donald
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« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2006, 08:27:52 AM »

There is a well documented and researched psychological phenomenon regarding ones investment and belief in something that has required an investment of money or something of value.

In particular, it is well known that those paying for their counseling rather than getting it for free(as in , say, a community mental health center) report more success and satisfaction.

I believe this principle will apply to buying CDs versus burning them for free.
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Mitchell
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« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2006, 08:38:19 AM »

My daughter "roots through" my iPod the same way she would root through a stack of vinyl. Finds cool stuff, listens to it over and over again, just like in previous generations.

Yes, but that is NOW... I'm just wondering if/how people will store their old mp3s in 30 years (or whatever the new technology is). If the iPod/hard drive crashes, you lose it all.
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GP1138
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« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2006, 08:45:56 AM »

My daughter "roots through" my iPod the same way she would root through a stack of vinyl. Finds cool stuff, listens to it over and over again, just like in previous generations.

Yes, but that is NOW... I'm just wondering if/how people will store their old mp3s in 30 years (or whatever the new technology is). If the iPod/hard drive crashes, you lose it all.

Honestly, that kind of worries me a little. I'll probably end up getting new hard drives every few years and transferring the files just as I have the past few years.

Flash memory will also drop in price and increase in storage space. That's a very good storage medium, no moving parts.
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Jeff Mason
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« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2006, 08:59:30 AM »

You could not fit my music collection in an IPod, or even 2 of them.  Plus that is compressed -- I prefer having a full spectrum copy available where possible.

With my CD collection, I buy it and put it on the shelf.  As pointed out, my daughter can some day browse it easily.  Your methods can work but it is a pain -- multiple hard drives for multiple copies with making new HDs on a regular basis.

This is not a theoretical issue to me.  The plusses of digital cameras completely outweigh the negatives.  But how do you store your images to ensure their survival for 50-100 years?  I am working through this now.  My plan is involving multiple CD burns, a safe deposit box, and yearly re-copies.  To me it's the same thing except I am not emotionally vested in the physical copy of all of our pics like I am a real CD.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2006, 09:57:48 AM »

Did you know that the Nottingham craftsman that called themselves Luddites (after the guy, Ned Ludd, who "famously" broke stuff to make a point) destroyed industrial technology in protest of poor working conditions and unfairly low wages?  They actually spared the machinery of employers that had not eliminated the minimum wage and had decent working conditions.

Interesting how the english language co-opts things.
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Chris D.
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« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2006, 06:20:34 PM »

but after you realize that half your spending money is gone and you've overpaid for a piece of plastic that most of the revenue isn't even going to the artist that made it, you start to realize how nice it is to download the cover art and listen to it on your iPod.

How much of the revenue from your downloads goes to the artist?
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Nick T.
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« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2006, 06:51:41 PM »

I don't know if I feel apathetic but I certainly feel the anxiety about missing and not having "good stuff" that comes with the high level of access I have.  I can't even get onto p2p or bit torrent stuff here at work because the network squeezes it out but with the stuff that I do get I feel overwhelmed, like I'm not taking quality time to actually listen carefully to the music I do get.  I also wonder about people with every live show of their favorite artist--Ian notwithstanding--do they actually listen to all of that?  Not only revenue, but a sense of dialogue with the artist is also lost I think.

When fossil fuels run out in about 30 years it's going to be tough to run those ipodz!!!

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Boxer Monkey
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« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2006, 04:01:40 PM »

I think it's probably different for evrybody, and I'm sure there are people who appreciate every precious sonic second of music they have, whether its downloaded, store-bought or on rotation in their heads, but the one close friend I have who downloads music addictively seems to take no pleasure in anything but the acquisitiveness aspect of it. He talks more about his goshdarn iPod than what's on it. I will never stoop to buying an iPod -- all that cataloging. I have enough trouble keeping track of my music in its various formats already. And while I'm sure there are virtues to consolidation, really, I'd rather not be bothered. I've got enough to obsess about.
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Joe
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« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2006, 09:45:40 PM »

I dont really care if my music is for free or not.... either I like it or I don't - money has nothing to do with it.

I have gotten lots of pleasure out of 50 cent bargin bin records in an Opportunity shop, as much as I have from my expensive box sets of CDs.

There are free mp3s that I listen to constantly (creative commons stuff too) and there are albums/CDs that cost me money but I never listen to.
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Old Rake
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« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2006, 05:36:33 AM »

Quote
I will never stoop to buying an iPod -- all that cataloging.

It...takes care of that for you, ya know.
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Bubba Ho-Tep
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« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2006, 06:08:05 AM »

"The accessibility of music has meant that it is taken for granted and does not require a deep emotional commitment once associated with music appreciation,"


Most of today's music isn't deserving of deep, emotional commitment. That's why these kids are a bunch of zombies.

I don't like the IPod and know nothing about it. You can't surpase the good old Walkman.

Give these kids a vinyl copy of Dark Side of the Moon and a set of headphones and tell them to get with it.
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