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Author Topic: Brian Wilson 20/20  (Read 1753 times)
SmileyBrian67
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« on: May 25, 2019, 03:31:58 PM »

Why wasn’t Brian Wilson on the cover of 20/20? It makes no sense as to why The Beach Boys would release an album without a very important member on the cover. This is driving me crazy someone give me an answer
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BeachBoysCovers
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2019, 03:45:19 PM »

Because he wasn't at the photoshoot?
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2019, 03:53:23 PM »

I've always wondered if he was embarrassed about the record and didn't want to be associated with it...outside of some song credits. And it's actually really fitting in a way: the previous studio album Friends was Brian really trying to come up with a chill and cohesive album, and it fell flat. 20/20 was him giving the reigns to band, and seemingly pulling away from everything. So it is almost fitting that he isn't on the cover.
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SmileyBrian67
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2019, 07:41:26 PM »

Because he wasn't at the photoshoot?
Of course but I was saying don’t you think they would have had their founding architect there for an album cover shoot
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Aum Bop Diddit
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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2019, 08:09:30 PM »

Because he wasn't at the photoshoot?

Wasn't he punched in to the Carl and the Passions group photo?
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« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2019, 01:25:15 AM »

Well, Brian was pictured in the gatefold:





Guess it was just the idea behind the "concept"
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« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2019, 09:06:47 AM »

Remember, this was when Brian was distancing himself from the band. They tried to get him involved in the sessions, but he refused. He probably refused to join them for the photo shoot, and it was probably not possible to convincingly paste his image into the front and back cover photos, so they did the next best thing and put him in the gatefold.
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Jim V.
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« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2019, 08:23:52 PM »

Let's not forget that if SMiLE had come out, the back cover wouldn't have featured Brian either.

You know the photo...



I wonder whether that was just the Capitol art people being their usual lazy self or whether Brian chose that.
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Pretty Funky
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« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2019, 09:09:06 PM »

Too young to be a fan at the time but any chance it was related to the promotion of the touring group and the reflection of who would be performing the music on stage?
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« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2019, 11:12:20 PM »

Too young to be a fan at the time but any chance it was related to the promotion of the touring group and the reflection of who would be performing the music on stage?

Good question and I personally would think so, but I’m not sure
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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2019, 10:58:36 AM »

Remember, this was when Brian was distancing himself from the band. They tried to get him involved in the sessions, but he refused. He probably refused to join them for the photo shoot, and it was probably not possible to convincingly paste his image into the front and back cover photos, so they did the next best thing and put him in the gatefold.

This is a bit inaccurate, as it was a two-way street with Brian and the band during this time.

When Brian *was* coming to the band with ideas around the time of the 20/20 era, whether it be for songs to work on, sessions, and other band issues, they were shooting him down left and right and basically saying "no" to what he was putting on the table.

Much like the attitude described by Marilyn in one of the docs about the Smile era, Brian would get sick of them challenging and shooting down his ideas to where he'd say "fine, you do it".

It's not as simple as saying the band tried to get Brian involved at this time but he refused like they were being shunned by Brian, when in fact the ideas Brian had been bringing to the band for them to get involved with were being shot down at a greater rate than previously. It is a two-way street in that regard.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2019, 11:15:17 AM »

Remember, this was when Brian was distancing himself from the band. They tried to get him involved in the sessions, but he refused. He probably refused to join them for the photo shoot, and it was probably not possible to convincingly paste his image into the front and back cover photos, so they did the next best thing and put him in the gatefold.

This is a bit inaccurate, as it was a two-way street with Brian and the band during this time.

When Brian *was* coming to the band with ideas around the time of the 20/20 era, whether it be for songs to work on, sessions, and other band issues, they were shooting him down left and right and basically saying "no" to what he was putting on the table.

Much like the attitude described by Marilyn in one of the docs about the Smile era, Brian would get sick of them challenging and shooting down his ideas to where he'd say "fine, you do it".

It's not as simple as saying the band tried to get Brian involved at this time but he refused like they were being shunned by Brian, when in fact the ideas Brian had been bringing to the band for them to get involved with were being shot down at a greater rate than previously. It is a two-way street in that regard.

Other than "Old Man River", which Carl and the others actually did try to finish with Brian, what examples can you site?
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Ian
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« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2019, 11:32:31 AM »

Yeah I can think of later ones-like wanting a more upbeat til I die in 1970 and not digging fairytale in 1972
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« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2019, 11:44:39 AM »

Yeah I can think of later ones-like wanting a more upbeat til I die in 1970 and not digging fairytale in 1972

Exactly. But during the 20/20 era, Brian had, for whatever reason, chose not to participate ("Cotton Fields" being the exception). This may have to do with the aftermath of his hospitalization and reported electro-shock therapy treatment earlier that year, or just a general, temporary lack of interest in music-making in the second half of '68. Other than "Walkin" and "Been Way Too Long" that July (neither of them finished), the subsequent Ron Wilson session and sessions for the Honeys at the very end of the year, "Cotton Fields" was pretty much his only production during those months.  Eight years later, Dennis complained to Pete Fornatale about how they had to find pieces of music Brian had started, and finish them for the album: "That's when there was no involvement at all."
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« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2019, 11:58:00 AM »

Examples other than "Old Man River"? Do we have access to what was happening on a day-to-day basis during this time, or can we paste together comments to give an overview? There have been comments from Brian where he said or implied that the band didn't seem to care what he had to say or offer, Old Man River being one of the published examples.

Speaking of examples: Where are the examples then of Brian refusing to participate with the band during this time other than them doing new tracks for the Smile tunes Our Prayer and Cabinessence? It is on record how upset Brian was at them dusting off those tunes to add to the album, and how he didn't want them to do it and refused to participate, but they did it anyway.

Apart from that, where are the examples of Brian "refusing" to do something that would back up this comment: "Remember, this was when Brian was distancing himself from the band. They tried to get him involved in the sessions, but he refused. He probably refused to join them for the photo shoot..."

Stephen Desper: "It wasn't like Brian was making a choice to be less involved, it's just that you've got limited hours in the day. Brian is a gentle guy; he doesn't like to hurt anyone's feelings, so if someone's working on something else, he wasn't going to jump in there and say 'Look, this is my production and my house, so get outta here!'. That's totally out of character for him." (Carlin, p. 151)

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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2019, 12:10:48 PM »

Yeah, I really think what you're talking about applies to the '70-'72 era, not the late '68 era. And they clearly dusted off "Our Prayer" and "Cabinessence" at the last minute, due to a lack of anything new from Brian, rather than Brian refusing to give them anything new because they decided to include those songs against his will. They had an album to deliver before leaving on tour, and Brian hadn't given them anything new for inclusion. They reached back to the previous summer and completed "I Went To Sleep", then dug back further for "Time To Get Alone" (for which Brian participated in finishing), then "Our Prayer" and "Cabinessence" (which he did not). Between overdub sessions for the last two of these, he went in and did "Cotton Fields", but that was it. Earlier in the sessions, they tried to get to sing on "I Can Hear Music" and possibly others, but he refused.
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2019, 12:45:37 PM »

Expanding just before and after 20/20, what is possible to see is that the other band members *were* getting more involved in the music the band was recording and releasing. And that is something Brian had been doing especially with Carl and to a lesser degree Dennis back in '67 while Smile was still on the table. Brian wanted them to contribute more to the writing and production, and I'd say that's how we got "I Can Hear Music" from Carl and of course Dennis' originals, which Brian helped him with uncredited in some cases but audible in the end results.

Factor in Brian doing "Cottonfields" on Al's request, and Brian later working with Al on Loop De Loop. Then Bruce added his production chops and songwriting to the mix, Brian wrote a hit single like Do It Again with Mike, he wrote Breakaway with his dad, etc.

I'm thinking of that comment from Desper as one of the points to consider, alongside how Brian had written/co-written two of the band's three most successful singles during this time while Carl produced the third one using a lot of the knowledge he learned from watching and hearing Brian cutting hit records in studios through the previous years.

I have to wonder what more would people have wanted from Brian in terms of what he did with and for the band? He made it clear several years before that he wanted the other band members to step up and start taking more active roles in writing and recording, and that's exactly what 20/20 and the period surrounding it shows was actually happening. And they even got Bruce into the process as producer and writer, along with Al, and of course Carl and Dennis.

They were stepping up and doing the work, I'd argue as planned at least 2 years prior, and yet there seems to be the notion that Brian had turned his back on the band and was refusing to do these things with them. Yet he contributed two of their most prominent singles of this era, and as outlined had a role either direct or indirectly in the efforts of his bandmates, except maybe Bruce's tracks. And all this while he was a new father and had the issues with the hospitalization which is still clouded in mystery as to what exactly happened.

And again, the only outright refusal that comes to mind was Brian's objection to dusting off the Smile tracks to fill space on an album. I think even Al objected to that...there is a quote from Al if I can find it about Cabinessence being on 20/20.

I think the reality in retrospect lies somewhere between what Desper's quote said and the plans that were set in motion several years prior for the band members to start doing what Brian had almost 100% done for the band up to 1967. There is not enough on the books to suggest Brian was refusing outright to work with and for them during the 20/20 era and 1968-69-70 period in general beyond things like working on those Smile cuts against his wishes.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2019, 04:44:30 PM »

I am fascinated by Brian in 1968 and 1969. I think these years are really the key to everything that happened to Brian afterwards.

I wish more was/is known, but this period is kind of glossed over in bios. I guess because it's so personal. There's no need for fans to have access to this kind of info.
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Ian
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« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2019, 05:45:38 PM »

Right-There is only so much we have a right to know-unless they want to tell us.  I agree-though that 1968 and even more so 1969 were pivotal years for Brian and his relationship with the BBs.
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