Concert Setlists when did they "Jump The Shark"

[MBE]

While they never let Dennis sing enough, I think the Beach Boys setlists through mid 73 were overall great. Yet by the end of 73 there was no new album being recorded and for the Beach Boys this meant trouble. Murry's death and Brian's retreat had something to do with this I am sure. To me the winter 73 tour was the first sign of regression

1974 had even more oldies and Dennis was getting raspy as the months passed. 1975 had great shows with Chicago, but some solo shows were only 20 songs with 12 oldies though they were still done well.76-79 had a good amount of new songs but as Brian, Carl, and Dennis self destructed the shows began to be erratic. Some where great, others weren't. From 80-3 when Carl was there the shows were still good. Brian even was good for a brief time in 1983. When Carl was not there though it was a new low. The oldies were never all that great again and the medley's started. To me 1981 was the point they JTS, but from  mid 82-late 83 and then 1993 they breifly jumped back.

The post Dennis years shined briefly during 1993, but except for a few shows in 88 it was rare to hear anything but oldie after oldie. Even things like Good Vibrations and Rock and Roll Music lost their lustre.  Perhaps influenced by Brian's success Mike and Bruce sometimes have a fairly decent set though much of the leads aren't sung by them.

So here is my question. when and if do you think the Beach Boys live shows jumped? I also am curious  to read a list of what songs were mistakes to perform after the 60s. New songs (for at least three years) are disqualified.

While after the 70s many shows had indifferent performances, from late 1967 the the end of 79, here are the songs that seemed awkward though I loved them all originally
Surfin U.S.A.
Surfer Girl (Except when Brian sang lead in 1970)
Little Deuce Coupe
Catch A Wave
In My Room
Be True
Fun, Fun, Fun
I Get Around
California Girls (after 1970)
Barbara Ann (after 1970)

[Eric Aniversario]

Tough question!

I would agree that around the times the first casino shows started happening (around 1980) they were close to jumping the shark.  But I think that it was really around 1985 or so when the setlists jumped the shark.  Also performance wise, things started to go downhill.  As I stated in another thread, the fashions of the day just did not look right on the Boys...it looked like an attempt to be younger than they really were.  By 1985, the medleys and the comedy routines were firmly in place, and the little new material that was being performed did not go over well live.  The setlists were about 25 songs max, and "Heaven" had been dropped after being performed regularly in 1984 as a tribute to Dennis.

Other than the 1993 boxed set tour, there were few shining moments from 1986 to 2000.  Probably the dullest period of touring was 1994-1997, when the setlist pretty much didn't change, and featured very little new material. 

As for post-2000, I'd say that Brian's "Pet Sounds" and "Smile" tours are definite highlights, as were the first few years of Al's "Beach Boys Family & Friends" tours, when Carnie & Wendy were part of the band.  I'd also argue that, at least setlist-wise, if not performance-wise, that the Mike & Bruce shows from about 2004 on are very noteworthy.

[MBE]

Eric you pretty much describe how I feel exactly. I think the last flawless show I have heard would be 8-24-73. I think the 94-7 are the worst ones with Carl too. Brian's 99 shows were good as he seemed a little looser format wise. Pet Sounds and Smile live though were really cool. I am just glad that I saw the Smile tour and the 93 box set tour. The two very best since I became a fan in '88. Never got to see Al but would like to.

[HeyJude]

I think if we're looking for a turning point, a point where they "jumped the shark", I would choose the 1981 tour. Not only did they not have anything new to promote (apart from "Come Go With Me" being re-released as a single and becoming a surprise hit near the end of the year), they were also missing Carl. I think this is the turning point because, while they had for a number of years worked with some "oldies", the 1981 tour was the first time you saw them doing stuff like "Surfin' Safari", "The Little Old Lady From Pasadena", etc. That was sort of the point of no return. This was the point at which they felt so compelled to perform so many "oldies" that there simply wasn't as much room to work in other interesting material as much.

There were some points after that during which things took temporary upturns. They did quite a few tracks from the '85 album on the '85 tour, but not for very long. In 1988, they added in "This Whole World", "Forever", "Wendy", and a few others. But this was mostly temporary. In 1989/1990, you could sometimes catch stuff from "Still Cruisin'", and a few chestnuts were brought back like "Please Let Me Wonder" and "California Saga: California", but these were certainly short-terms exceptions.

I agree that some of the mid-late 90's setlists are some of the least imaginative, and the band seemed even more on "autopilot" than normal at that time. The only thing particularly interesting in Carl's last few years in the band were his performances of "Sail on Sailor."

[MBE]

Hey Jude thanks for your insights on this. Does anyone know the first year the cheerleaders started? That would be a big downturn. Also when did the Beach Boys start wearing "Beach Wear" on stage?

[tpesky]

I think from late 1971-early 1977 you saw the Beach Boys touring band at their very very best. 1978-79 saw some shoddy performances largely due to substances.  I think 1980 was defintely the last year of the great touring band, obviously Carl's departure being a huge cause of the change. After that there would be moments....late 82-1984 I thought were some great performances, some setlist creativity. Witness Grad. Day on The Tonight Show, the voices were there! 1985 new album material was also good. After that, the highlights get less, 1988 definitely stands out as a good tour early on and of course 1993 stellar! Coincidentally, these years saw more leads from Al and Carl whose voices held up much better. As others said 1994-1997 were short, auto pilot, Love vocal dominated shows. Not that I don't like Mike's lead songs, alot of my favorites are, but the band needed more Al and Carl leads to balance it.

[Dave in KC]

Well, having never missed a year since 1968, I can safely say that it was September 1998. Too big a fan not to have enjoyed all the shows until Carl's death. I was extremely hestitant about seeing the first show after that time but hey, it was a BIG celebration for Kansas City at the Spirit Fest and The Beach Boys were headliners. My family had to all most hold me up after the first couple of songs. It was bad enough without Carl, but NO Alan! And Bruce high up playing keyboards witha bunch of women dancing next to him. It was too much and it was that night it ended for me. Or they jumped the whatever. Trash can I guess. Luckily I got to see Family and Friends and Brian in 1999 and the SMiLE shows. But I am ticketed for Mike and Bruce Sept.7 as part of a group that talked me into it. Bottom line......Sept. 1998. AND most of the shows I saw in the 80's were damn good. They always filled the venues.

[MBE]

Does anyone else wish to make a list of songs that should have not been peformed after 67?

[Rocker]

Does anyone else wish to make a list of songs that should have not been peformed after 67?

I can tell you the one song that sums this up imo : "Barbara Ann"

[jeffh]

Sorry, but in my opinion all of the songs on MBE's list are early classics and must be heard. I would not eliminate any of them.  To me it's a matter of how the songs are sung, how the concert comes off. I've seen the Boys several times playing and singing without any passion. just sort of "phoning in their performance." To me that's jumping the shark at the worst.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Sorry, but in my opinion all of the songs on MBE's list are early classics and must be heard. I would not eliminate any of them.  To me it's a matter of how the songs are sung, how the concert comes off. I've seen the Boys several times playing and singing without any passion. just sort of "phoning in their performance." To me that's jumping the shark at the worst.

I'm kind of with jeffh on this topic. I've been a BB diehard since 1976, and I never really had a problem with the setlists; the performance is another thing.

Maybe my expectations were low going in, but I didn't expect many/any rarities. I took a Beach Boys concert for what it was. It was a rock and roll show, many times outdoors, to a crowd of many ages, to a crowd who wanted "good time" music, who were there to hear the familiar hits. And in many ways, so was I. For the most part, they usually covered all the GREAT hits. There were always a couple (Don't Worry Baby, The Warmth Of The Sun, Caroline No) that I wished they would've performed, but I understood why they didn't. And you will never hear me criticize the "car" or "surf" medleys. I never get tired of hearing them. Or Barbara Ann live. To me, those surf and turf songs are on a short list of the greatest rock and roll of all time, and there isn't any better in a live setting.

[MBE]

Don't misunderstand, I love all of those songs. I just think that after a certain point the performances did go downhill. Take California Girls. It was great in the 60s, but as the years went on Mike sang it worse and worse, the intro dragged on too long and the cheerleaders pranced around. On the other hand Help Me Rhonda was good because they switched the lead around and gave it a modern feel. When Dennis was alive it had his great piano solo so at least until the mid 80s it was done with class. Good Vibrations also stayed great through at least that time with the little Smile sections and extended scat  ending. On the other hand, I Get Around was never updated and even in 71-2 sounded a little boring. Watch the 1971 Central Park film. It's About Time ends the show on a super high note but I Get Around kind of difuses the excitement. It if had the energy they had given the rest of their set, it would have kicked. I think if they had kept them fresh I wouldn't have a problem with anything really.

[Sheriff John Stone]

No argument here, MBE, about the performances. I just felt like the setlists should be defended by someone, anyone. There was a certain atmosphere about a Beach Boys concert - the beach balls, usually summer weather, people dressed like The Beach Boys, used to be a lot of guys with beards, the cheerleaders (I'll defend them/the decision to use them - harmless!), old people, young people, "fun" vibes, you know what I mean? It was like a spectacle, seeing legends. You wanted to hear the hits.

Sometimes when the guys did play a non-hit, or a new song, it brought the crowd down, almost as if they couldn't wait until it was over to get back to the hits. One last point, and this is really gonna get me in trouble, but when I saw Brian perform Pet Sounds live, some of the songs didn't get to me like I thought they would. I'm not saying this to criticize Brian's performance of the material, but I was so used to hearing those songs a certain way, in a specific setting, in my room, on my stereo or whatever, that I couldn't totally adjust to hearing them in a live setting. Like the songs were TOO personal, or TOO deep to be performed live. Does that make any sense?

[HeyJude]

Someone else mentioned dropping "Barbara Ann", and while I could probably do without the song, that song is probably the most requested at shows over the years via some idiot yelling it out in the middle of the show. What the group should have done years ago was open with "Barbara Ann" to shut those people up.

I agree that the band's performance quality was as if not more important than the setlist. But the performance quality was all over the place over the years just like the setlist. For instance, the 1993 extended boxed set shows had amazing setlists, and amazing vocals and instrumental performances, except for the horrendous drumming. The drumming nearly ruined those shows. The drumming was the weakest part of BB shows from the mid-late 80's and on, and it's no coincidence that that started when Bobby Figueroa was gone and Kowalski took over.

The band sounded hit-and-miss around 1976/77, as they had a nice horn section and whatnot, but by '78 it started to go downhill as Carl particularly began to falter. They cleaned it up quite a bit by 1979, and I think 1980, after Dennis rejoined, was perhaps the last shining moment for the band as a *group* on stage. The Knebworth and Washington DC shows that year featured the band playing and singing solid, and it was one of the last times that the actual number of Beach Boys (6) outnumbered the backing band (3 or 4) by 2-to-1. By 1982, you could actually go to a BB show and only see Al, Bruce, and Mike. Luckily Carl rejoined in the middle of the year, and even into 1983 you could catch all 6 BB's (even if by 1983 Dennis and Brian weren't really contributing much to the band from a performance point of view).

[MBE]

Sheriff I understand what you are saying, yet I think if Brian had toured Pet Sounds pre 74-5 it would have been great. The only thing it really was missing now was his original voice and that did hurt it a little. I disagree about the Beach Boys focuss though.  I think 1993 was the perfect blend, yet I hated the beach balls and cheerleaders etc. I am not saying to ignore the early days, but it should have only been a PART of their overall appral not the only thing. I think the popularity of Pet Sounds and Smile today proves that if the Beach Boys had been diligent, they could have made their audience expand with them. If that meant playing to 20,000 instead of 200,000 so be it. They could have made a great living and still had their rep.

Hey Jude you echo my thoughts here exactly. Brian in 1983 was pretty interesting to watch. He did new songs, and actually seemed to be having fun onstage. Kind of like 77. There is a video of Brian and Al doing Runaway from 83, and he almost seems like the Brian from the 60s.

[Aegir]

I can't stand any live recording of Barbara Ann. Not even that TV clip of them performing it on TV in 1965. The Party! version is the only recording I like. It's laid back and they're all having fun. Live, it's just a frail attempt at a hard-rocking song that fails everytime.

[Dave in KC]

Is that why the audience has always gone wild during that song? Failed? Not hardly.

[Pretty Funky]

For me the shark was jumped in 1975. Just looking through some of Erics setlists.

June 23 1974 Cleveland

1. Wouldn't It Be Nice
2. Darlin'
3. Funky Pretty
4. Marcella
5. California Saga
6. We Got Love
7. Little Deuce Coupe
8. The Trader
9. All This Is That
10. Feel Flows
11. Sail On Sailor
12. Surfer Girl
13. Heroes & Villains
14. Don't Worry Baby
15. Sloop John B
16. Help Me Rhonda
17. I Get Around
18. Good Vibrations
19. California Girls
20. Barbara Ann
21. Surfin' USA
22. Fun, Fun, Fun


June 21 1975 Wembley

1. Wouldn´t It Be Nice
2. I Can Hear Music
3. Do It Again
4. Help Me, Rhonda
5. In My Room
6. Sail On Sailor
7. The Trader
8. Surf´s Up
9. California Saga/ California
10. Surfer Girl
11. Heroes & Villains
12. Little Deuce Coupe
13. Catch A Wave
14. Don´t Worry Baby
15. Darlin´
16. Sloop John B
17. California Girls
18. I Get Around
19. Good Vibrations
20. You Are So Beautiful
21. Surfin´ USA
22. Barbara Ann
23. Fun, Fun, Fun

Blondie had left in 74 but Ricky was still there and the setlist is still much the same as "Concert" but by 75 Ricky was gone, they were riding the success of the  "Endless Summer" compilation, and playing some big shows with a new audience with the Beachago tour who only knew the hits.

Mike jumped big-time with the Turban and sequin outfit at Wembley and whats with "Jumpin Jack Flash" during that year? They had plenty of fast pace tunes of their own.

[Dave in KC]

Without agreeing on the date stated, I have something to say about that Cleveland show. It was really something that day at Cleveland Municipal Stadium. REALLY something. The show, put on by The Belkin Brothers Productions, set a record that day and evening by having more amplified speakers than ANY other concert in history. Back then it was big deal for sure. Before The Beach Boys, just a few of the groups were Kansas, Head East, Joe Walsh,  and REO Speedwagon. Setting up The Beach Boys stage took forever and included speading out a white carpet over the entire stage and bringing out potted palm trees while we all sat there and gawked at the spectacle. Someone from the Guiness book of records came out to verify that indeed, it was a new record for any concert venue.  They were still setting up speakers two to three hours into the day long concert. Basically they stretched from foul pole to foul pole and stacked as high as was safely allowable. But here's the amazing part. When the group started into the songs like Feel Flows and The Trader, a mass exodus began. It was like the end of the inning or the seventh inning stretch or something. Remember, this is a ballpark, and to see people "leaving in droves" as my friend said, I realized that this was not good. Sit there ALL DAY waiting for the headliner and then leave in the middle of the show. I was heartbroken. So perhaps you are correct on your call of when "they jumped the shark."

[MBE]

I like the performances of Barbara Ann with Brian on lead from 65 (the TV show), 67 (Hawaii), and 70 (the tour). The Live in London version was OK too. After these I don't care for it. If Brian had kept his voice maybe. That's interesting Dave about the 74 show. I grew up in Cleveland and in the 80s at least I remember hearing Darlin' played on the radio a lot. Until I bought Wild Honey, I never even knew it was the Beach Boys. WHK used to play really good oldies not just the same 100 songs played over and over you hear today.  My parents also remember things like Break Away being played there. So Cleveland seemed to me to be receptive to the "adult" Beach Boys. I guess that audience wasn't. The Beach Boys of 67-74 really didn't play ball park concerts. Meaning that they were too musical to go over with a drunk or kid filled ball park crowd. I think the 75 shows with Chicago were good from the little I heard. It's the short 20 song shows from 75 that to me are the first signs of going through the motions.

[Dave in KC]

Nope MBE. The statement that they didn't play ball park concerts during those years is not correct. I know because I saw them with CSN&Y at Royals Stadium in Kansas City during that time. So there're two shows, and that's just the ones I know of because I was at both.

[MBE]

I know they played ballparks but I meant they weren't a "ballpark" band.