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Author Topic: Some recent thoughts/theories on C50 and possible potential reunions....  (Read 2749 times)
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« on: May 20, 2019, 11:09:08 AM »

With the rumors of another reunion around the corner, and having had a few years to reflect on 2012 and the following years, I've recently been thinking that there had to have been more going on behind the scenes regarding the demise of C50, and the future of the touring band, than we're aware of.

C50 was obviously going well, from an outsider's perspective, when it was announced the band would again part ways. The tour was making money. Audiences were thrilled. It really seemed like The Beach Boys were back! And then boom, we're back to the M&B vs BW touring operations, seemingly overnight. Many people, including Brian, Al, and lots of us assumed it was simply because Mike prefers that way of touring over the reunion. Weather its due to financial compensation, creative control, spotlight, etc... to many of us, it became perfectly clear that Mike must just prefer to tour on his own, as opposed to with the former core members. The way he described C50 in his book kinda makes it seem that way. Or when he responds to questions about the demise of C50 by saying "Brian has his thing, I have mine". But what if that's not the case?

I have recently wondered that the reason C50 ended was the suits (BRI maybe?) predicted that  once the thrill of the reunion died, maybe the overall excitement would too. They obviously couldn't keep marketing their tour as the 50th reunion band, and eventually just The Beach Boys. Once it was a given that the core members would be onstage, no longer something that felt finite, maybe management and/or the group was worried  they wouldn't continue to sell out these big places, and to prevent embarrassment, made the call that only Mike and Bruce would continue touring as The Beach Boys until the 60th reunion, where there would again be excitement to see the core members together again. Now, it might be shocking to think that BRI would plan on there being a 60th reunion, but not really, considering neither Mike nor Brian (Al, Bruce, Dave, Blondie, etc) have expressed a desire to retire.

Maybe I'm entering conspiracy territory here, but it seems plausible to me.

I've also been thinking that a The Beach Boys reunion would probably be the best thing for Brian's touring career right now. So much pressure would be taken off of him with Mike being a frontman, not to mention having Al, Bruce, and Dave. He could play piano, sing as much as he wants, or just listen to the music. But the difference is he wouldn't be center stage at a "Brian Wilson" concert, where people are there to see him. He'd once again be a member of a band, able to comfortably be a team player again. Leave the front man shtick to Mike who has that sh*t refined to a tee, or even Al, who has proven himself to be quite the capable frontman in his recent years touring with Brian.

Thoughts?
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2019, 11:27:09 AM »


I have recently wondered that the reason C50 ended was the suits (BRI maybe?) predicted that  once the thrill of the reunion died, maybe the overall excitement would too. They obviously couldn't keep marketing their tour as the 50th reunion band, and eventually just The Beach Boys. Once it was a given that the core members would be onstage, no longer something that felt finite, maybe management and/or the group was worried  they wouldn't continue to sell out these big places, and to prevent embarrassment, made the call that only Mike and Bruce would continue touring as The Beach Boys until the 60th reunion, where there would again be excitement to see the core members together again.




I don't think so. The offers for BIG concerts were in, like Madison Square Garden on New Year's Eve etc. And they were also offered a deal for a new Beach Boys album (Brian already began writing songs, I seem to remember the intro to "Our special love" was planned for the Beach Boys as Ray Lawlor mentioned on this board) so the idea was to try to gain momentum.
And regarding the "all the core members being onstage": For almost twenty years I hear in the media now that Brian Wilson is finally back touring and giving concerts.... So yeah, I don't think the attention for the Beach Boys back together with Brian Wilson would end that abpruptly. They were just starting in 2012
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2019, 11:31:43 AM »

Very true. I suppose I was simply playing devil's advocate, and challenging the status quo belief of the end of C50... food for thought.

Thinking about those huge concert offers makes me sad. How cool would it have been to see the guys up there?? Well, there's still time....

Do you guys think Al's hinting at a reunion or something of the sorts a few months ago at one of his storyteller shows was simply something Al said, hinting at something else, that we've just over analyzed? Or can we assume there might be truth to his sentiment, considering Al's tendencies?
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2019, 12:44:01 PM »

I thought Al was referring to a Family and Friends reunion.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 12:44:38 PM by Emdeeh » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2019, 01:41:21 PM »

I was the one who posted about Al's hints at a possible reunion (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,25616.msg646799.html#msg646799). I do want to note that while Al was extremely vague with his hint (undoubtedly on-purpose), he specifically mentioned working with Brian's daughters this year separately from what he was hinting at. I interpreted Al's hints as alluding to a Beach Boys reunion, and I wasn't the only one in the audience who thought that this specifically was what he was alluding to: https://facethemusicjr.wixsite.com/facethemusic/single-post/2019/02/20/Al-Jardine-E280A2-Original-Founding-Member-of-The-Beach-Boys.

I should also note that despite hearing Al's hints firsthand, I am skeptical myself of a reunion occurring. It sounded like there wasn't much of a commitment from the parties at this point for such a thing, whatever that thing actually is, and whoever the parties in question are, which is probably why he was so vague about it. It was also my impression that this thing/event/reunion or whatever is at least a year or two down the line from now. A lot can happen between now and then, and knowing the history of this band I am not exactly keeping my hopes up. But we shall see — I would love to be wrong in this case.
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2019, 01:52:05 PM »

 I think Mike just wanted to go back to the Mike & Bruce band. He more than met his obligation to the reunion band, originally set for 50 concerts, and later increased to what, 75. I can’t understand all of the complaints and theories over this. He more than met his obligations, and then he was done, he wanted out. He’s not a villain in this matter.
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« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2019, 02:42:06 PM »

I’m very sceptical, and think Mike, Brian and now Al have specific answers to ‘what about the future’ questions. All vague without giving any detail but designed to end questioning.

Mike: “Never say never.”
Brian: “My next albums going to be a Rock & Roll album.”
Al: “We might get back together next year.”

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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2019, 03:39:20 PM »

I was the one who posted about Al's hints at a possible reunion (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,25616.msg646799.html#msg646799). I do want to note that while Al was extremely vague with his hint (undoubtedly on-purpose), he specifically mentioned working with Brian's daughters this year separately from what he was hinting at. I interpreted Al's hints as alluding to a Beach Boys reunion, and I wasn't the only one in the audience who thought that this specifically was what he was alluding to: https://facethemusicjr.wixsite.com/facethemusic/single-post/2019/02/20/Al-Jardine-E280A2-Original-Founding-Member-of-The-Beach-Boys.

I should also note that despite hearing Al's hints firsthand, I am skeptical myself of a reunion occurring. It sounded like there wasn't much of a commitment from the parties at this point for such a thing, whatever that thing actually is, and whoever the parties in question are, which is probably why he was so vague about it. It was also my impression that this thing/event/reunion or whatever is at least a year or two down the line from now. A lot can happen between now and then, and knowing the history of this band I am not exactly keeping my hopes up. But we shall see — I would love to be wrong in this case.

I also want to clarify how Al presented his hints at the concert:

He sequentially listed the Beach Boys and Brian Wilson activities coming up in the future. He started by noting that the Brian Wilson documentary will be coming out sometime this year (which we now know is titled Long Promised Road, although its title hadn't been revealed at that point in February). He then noted that his touring with Brian and his solo storytelling shows would continue later this year. He noted that he would be working with Brian's daughters, Carnie and Wendy, this year on a project (he didn't specify what this project was at the time, so I didn't include this information in my initial review of the concert, since working together on something could mean a lot of things). We now know this is probably the Family and Friends Reunion that was announced (and unfortunately postponed) somewhat recently. He then mentioned that a new Beach Boys documentary would be coming out in 2020. And then he began hinting at something involving him and the other Beach Boys being potentially in the works after that. When the audience began getting excited, Al blurted out the word "tour". And that was it.

Now is it possible Al could have been referring to reuniting with Carnie and Wendy for a Beach Boys Family and Friends reunion tour? Sure. But the fact that Al listed all of the upcoming events in chronological order, the fact that he specifically mentioned working with Carnie and Wendy this year as its own event, and from the way Al was acting and the terminology he used, I don't think a Family and Friends reunion was what he was alluding to.

That said, I agree with Pretty Funky's above post regarding "what about the future questions" and how Al, Mike, and Brian tend to handle them. I think Al, above all, would love for another reunion to happen, and so I think assuming that the above hint was anything other than wishful thinking on his part is a mistake, at least at this point. It is too far off and there have been no other mentions of it thus far. As I mentioned in my previous post, knowing the history of this band, I am not holding my breath.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 07:00:12 PM by myonlysunshine » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2019, 06:54:30 PM »

While I'd love for this to transpire, I highly doubt it will...at least on the same level as C50 was. I have no doubt that these paths will continue to cross over the next 10-15 years or so in various capacities.

These guys do not have the stamina to do C50 over again. I still think the best thing for the future of the Beach Boys (not any singular member), is to come together as one...and allow Brian to show and participate as he pleases...advertising with no certainty that he would be present, and only booking about 40-50 shows a year in theatres and smaller amphitheaters. Make a solid touring front line of Mike Love, Bruce Johnston, David Marks, and Al Jardine....and put them to work, musically. You've got lead and rhythm guitar plus keyboards or bass. Pad it out with Scott Totten as MD and *third* guitarist to pickup when Al let's go of his guitar...keep "Ike" around on bass guitar and for those early falsetto leads, get Billy Hinsche back in for more keys and harmonies, and put Cowsill on kit. That's a solid lineup, if all parties were willing. Then when Brian is willing, let him take the leads he wants...want to sit at a piano? Sure! Strap on a bass? Sure! Just sit there? Sure!...no obligation.


I intentionally left Brian's regular core band out of the lineup...because should he be interested in doing a show of whatever he wants to do, then keep that option there. Let Al carry on with the Storytellers dynamic that really only he can pull off out of these guys...and if the Lovester gets a rod up his ass about them having separate revenue flows from touring, then tell him to reform the "Endless Summer Beach Band" and go plug these cracker jack records he insists on making...
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« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2019, 07:50:12 PM »

The only way I see Brian joining a C50 lineup is if he is retiring and it is a ‘Goodbye Brian’ type of deal. Short US tour only.

The time has come unfortunately.
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« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2019, 04:19:09 AM »

The way I see it? If it was going to happen it would've continued on after the C50 dates.

TWGMTR became their highest US charting studio album since before Pet Sounds! Yeah, Joe Thomas has some weird production on TWGMTR, but overall, that really is their best album since Holland, heck, maybe even Sunflower. Their concerts were friggin celebrations, lively, they sounded incredible. It was triumphant that the boys set aside their grudges, looked past the previous lawsuits (one of which was still going on not long before the C50 started).

But behind all of this there was struggle and annoyances, I'm sure the grudges were still present, wasn't there some issue with Stamos singing Forever during one of the concerts? Mics being supposedly tethered with some sort of auto-tune gear by Melinda herself? Mike being pissed Brian got his own tour bus? Regardless of whether some of these annoyances were real, the fact that these issues were talked about afterwards means that there was tension on the tour.

But going back to the paragraph above, this was still their most triumphant time period in a long time. They had it all - they had media recognition, their fans were united and happy to see them all on stage. They had a #3 charting album. The title song was played on rock radio stations across the country (and I still hear it to this day sometimes). I don't think any BRI suit, in their right mind, would let this cash cow go (who was to say that before the 60th anniversary another lawsuit at Brian wouldn't have been filed and completely soured the relationship between Mike and Brian? Or that some of the remaining members wouldn't have passed away during that time?)...when you're in the record business, or any business for that matter, you don't let something go in the hopes that a profit could be made in 10 year's time. If any profit can be made now, that's usually the best time to make a profit. Any marketer worth a hoot could've come up with other tour slogans and gimmicks for post C50 shows to draw in the crowds...the imagination can go wild with thoughts of a 'Kokomo' remake with some popular modern artist (giving momentum for younger crowds to go see the next iteration of concerts), The Beach Boys headlining a cross-country 60s band tour with guest artists like The Zombies, Ringo Starr, etc.. As was said above, another album was being planned. And given the material on NPP (regardless of what some here and elsewhere thought of it), it would've been a phenomenal album. Everything was there to make more money. But the differences mentioned above, the touring Mike was used to pre-C50, the wives/managers butting heads - all of this and more created a perfect atmosphere for Mike and Bruce to happily part ways with Brian, Al, David, etc (mostly because M&B held the Beach Boys name).

I don't think your theory is a bad one, but given all the factors above, I don't think it's a plausible scenario.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 04:45:58 AM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2019, 06:28:03 AM »

I have recently wondered that the reason C50 ended was the suits (BRI maybe?) predicted that  once the thrill of the reunion died, maybe the overall excitement would too. They obviously couldn't keep marketing their tour as the 50th reunion band, and eventually just The Beach Boys. Once it was a given that the core members would be onstage, no longer something that felt finite, maybe management and/or the group was worried  they wouldn't continue to sell out these big places, and to prevent embarrassment, made the call that only Mike and Bruce would continue touring as The Beach Boys until the 60th reunion, where there would again be excitement to see the core members together again. Now, it might be shocking to think that BRI would plan on there being a 60th reunion, but not really, considering neither Mike nor Brian (Al, Bruce, Dave, Blondie, etc) have expressed a desire to retire.

Maybe I'm entering conspiracy territory here, but it seems plausible to me.

Other than Mike's occasionally-cited bit that some unknown industry person advised him to "give it a rest" to build up demand, these theories all go against all known evidence that I can think of. It doesn't seem plausible to me given what we know about the band, the C50 project, and the concert industry in general.

First of all, we have a known litany of reasons Mike was unhappy with the tour. We've gone over these ad nauseam, as has Mike. We also have Brian and Al, at the outset of the post-reunion period anyway, *vociferously* letting it be known that they wanted to continue the reunion.

The end of the reunion, meaning specifically the awfully-timed and awfully-worded "press release" from Mike's camp about Mike going back to his own thing, followed by the ensuing days and weeks of awkward media back-and-forth, dueling letters to the LA Times, etc., *all* of those things HUGELY DAMAGED the band's brand and standing in the industry. The idea that *anything* about the *way* the reunion ended was a strategic, planned move on the part of BRI makes absolutely no sense. We've had industry people specifically mention that there were bigger fish in the concert promotion industry, with bigger bank than Joe Thomas, who were watching C50 for potential future investment/promotion, and once the 100% amateur ending to the reunion happened, those deep-pocket promoters balked.

BRI didn't even run the C50 project; it was run by a newly-formed "50 Big Ones Productions" fronted by Brian, Mike, and Joe Thomas. While any such projects would need the approval (either passively or actively) from BRI to use the name, no decisions regarding the tour were being made by BRI itself.

But more to the point, the idea that a *hugely successful* reunion tour would immediately start losing interest from fans after only 73 dates (including only TWO shows in the UK) also goes completely against all the evidence. The C50 tour never hit *numerous* secondary US markets that could have handled such a show. They also could have easily made return visits to key primary markets. And, they barely scratched the surface of markets outside of the US. Only approximately 23 shows for the entire rest of the world? They could have done many more shows in the UK, dozens and dozens more in Europe, certainly more in Korea/Japan, etc., and they could have gone into other markets like Russia and China.

There was also a 100% unexplored route of eventually, after doing more legs, settling into a potentially INSANELY LUCRATIVE Las Vegas residency.

We have industry people (and, through vague references, some band members themselves) mentioning that BIGGER offers were potentially in the offing for further tour legs.

The reunion tour was barely getting started when it ended. I'm not sure why people think 73 worldwide dates over the span of about five months is all that the demand would bare. Tours like this, especially when they get good reviews and word of mouth like the C50 tour did, do HUNDREDS of shows over many legs over two or three years.

The whole "they couldn't keep calling it a 50th anniversary" thing, which was mentioned back in 2012 as well, was a 100% non-issue. They could have easily continued calling it a "50th" tour for another year, and if they had continued in perpetuity, they could have easily found all sorts of marketing angles to keep it going. It is not difficult to come up with new names for tours. Look at McCartney; his tour names are usually awful ("Freshen Up"? Wtf?), but he keeps doing it and it's an easy marketing angle to use.

2014 could have been "50 Years of Fun Fun Fun" or whatever, and so on.

They could have maintained the reunion band as an evolving, continually refined well-oiled machine with new marketing angles as the thing continued on. Add Blondie to some dates. Do full albums.

They could have even maintained side bands for cheaper off-season corporate gigs and whatnot.

Poor (or no) management led to the embarrassing *way* the reunion ended. As to why the reunion ended, in my opinion it's by all evidence, including Mike's own words, because Mike quit the band and wanted to go back to his own thing.

He clearly didn't like even tangentially having to work with Melinda. He didn't like playing more large venues and having a larger touring operation. I'm sure he prefers his lean band, where he, I'm guessing, makes more money over the course of each year, and has NOBODY to answer to when it comes to all aspects of the operation, from the setlist to the overhead, and so on.

The only change to the "C50 narrative" that I think is possibly germane to the discussion that hasn't been deeply explored is why and how the reunion happened in the first place. I think there may come a time where more evidence or commentary indicates Mike was much less amenable to a reunion even *at the outset* than what we've previously thought. Just hunches/guesses/opinions. But I think the common narrative of Mike being into the reunion, and then at some point *afterward* souring on it, may be partially incorrect, or at least incomplete. Again, just spitballing, but what if Brian and Mike were offered big, fat advances that amounted to offers that couldn't be easily refused? I think it's possible that we may have to thank Joe Thomas scrounging up advance money as the main reason the reunion project ever happened in the first place.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 06:35:30 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2019, 07:08:48 AM »


The whole "they couldn't keep calling it a 50th anniversary" thing, which was mentioned back in 2012 as well, was a 100% non-issue. They could have easily continued calling it a "50th" tour for another year, and if they had continued in perpetuity, they could have easily found all sorts of marketing angles to keep it going. It is not difficult to come up with new names for tours. Look at McCartney; his tour names are usually awful ("Freshen Up"? Wtf?), but he keeps doing it and it's an easy marketing angle to use.



I mentioned it in another thread not too long ago, but that's exactly what Mike did. I'm not sure what the current tour is called but he did 50 Years of Fun Fun Fun (iirc), 50 years of GV, 50 Years of Wild Honey. Basically, Mike continued the Beach Boys tour, including the 50th anniversary theme, the video wall and Carl & Dennis making appearances on tape while the band played live. The only thing that wasn't continued was the presence of other Beach Boys (except for Bruce of course and occasionally David).
BUT I believe Mike was maybe not unwilling to have Al join him. There was talk of Al at least doing a guest performance after the reunion ended (and of course in 2011 Al joined Mike&Bruce for the Reagan anniversary) but Al decided to stay with Brian.
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« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2019, 07:59:40 AM »


The whole "they couldn't keep calling it a 50th anniversary" thing, which was mentioned back in 2012 as well, was a 100% non-issue. They could have easily continued calling it a "50th" tour for another year, and if they had continued in perpetuity, they could have easily found all sorts of marketing angles to keep it going. It is not difficult to come up with new names for tours. Look at McCartney; his tour names are usually awful ("Freshen Up"? Wtf?), but he keeps doing it and it's an easy marketing angle to use.



I mentioned it in another thread not too long ago, but that's exactly what Mike did. I'm not sure what the current tour is called but he did 50 Years of Fun Fun Fun (iirc), 50 years of GV, 50 Years of Wild Honey. Basically, Mike continued the Beach Boys tour, including the 50th anniversary theme, the video wall and Carl & Dennis making appearances on tape while the band played live. The only thing that wasn't continued was the presence of other Beach Boys (except for Bruce of course and occasionally David).
BUT I believe Mike was maybe not unwilling to have Al join him. There was talk of Al at least doing a guest performance after the reunion ended (and of course in 2011 Al joined Mike&Bruce for the Reagan anniversary) but Al decided to stay with Brian.

I don't think Mike seemed to have a particular stance against specifically Al in the post-C50 time frame. I think he just wanted to go back to his own tour. Keep in mind, not only is he of course "in charge" of the band on his own tour, his own company *runs* his tour. So when we're talking about Mike going back to his "own thing", we're not talking only about being able to pick the songs and musicians, and we're not even only talking about specifically money. We're talking about the entire apparatus running the tours being completely different.

And yes, it appears Mike then cherry-picked the little production elements of the C50 tour that he liked and kept them on (thus the odd spectacle of a "Beach Boys" show in 2013 ending up showcasing the deceased Carl and Dennis, but not the still-living Brian or Al).

Back to Al, post-C50 he did appear at Mike's "Ella Award" event in early 2014, and then there were conflicting reports about his appearing at a Mike gig at Jones Beach later in 2014. The full story of that Jones Beach debacle has still not been told from what I've heard, but I think based even on the extant public evidence, that was some sort of deal/quid pro quo situation that fell through, with a healthy dollop of classic Beach Boys miscommunication.
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« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2019, 09:29:46 AM »

So much to go over, again much of it ground that has already been walked on and covered many times since 2012...but I'll say as usual Rab and HeyJude are on the mark with their commentary. Just a few points and replies:

--- Rab: Spot-on commentary. As you spelled out:  Plans for a 60th tour as a reason why C50 happened as it did? Hogwash. As you say, and the pure common sense of it is so obvious, anyone in the business of making money and planning to make more money based on audience demand goes by the credo "strike while the iron is hot" and jump on the demand while it is high. In this case...if the theory is that those managers and planners would instead wait for these musicians to be roughly 80 years old and wait for them to embark on a major tour and other activities instead of doing it when the iron was glowing red hot...those managers and planners would best be described as optimistic to a fault or just plain dumb.

Only point I'd pick out was the phrase "happily part ways"...Mike did not happily part ways. "A picture is worth a thousand words"...remember how the Wilsons threw a wrap party for the C50 crew in the UK...and the only two who weren't there were Mike and Bruce, who had "other commitments" even though their band members somehow made it to the dinner. Does that sound like a happy parting of ways?


--- Nate: Your comment - "The tour was making money. Audiences were thrilled."   Please inform those vociferous online defenders of Mike's (and ostensibly Mike himself) that the tour was making money. Mike and his defenders argue that it was not making money, despite industry stats and end-of-tour totals from their run in 2012, and have argued that point to some ridiculous levels of parsing words/numbers and in some cases pure slinging of the proverbial bullshit to place the issue of the tour NOT making money as yet another excuse for Mike deciding to cut ties and walk. So yes, the tour was making money...Mike doesn't agree with your statement.

--- Jeff H:

I think Mike just wanted to go back to the Mike & Bruce band. He more than met his obligation to the reunion band, originally set for 50 concerts, and later increased to what, 75. I can’t understand all of the complaints and theories over this. He more than met his obligations, and then he was done, he wanted out. He’s not a villain in this matter.


Then why from the get-go as soon as his LA Times "reply" was published after the shitstorm from the Grammy event...or why in the past almost 7 years did Mike not say exactly that? No, instead we got any number of reasons, excuses, and some laughable flubs like his quip about the Eagles rather than the kind of cut-through-the-bullshit statement as you wrote. Perhaps the complaints and theories were reacting to Mike's changing commentary or the idiocy of some of his supporters trying to hammer square pegs into round holes to justify or defend something that both fact and fan sentiment couldn't justify as valid?

It makes you wonder why, if the answer truly was as you stated "He more than met his obligations", we have had to suffer over 6 years of Mike offering multiple "reasons" and his online supporters arguing anytime a new reason or talking point came out of Mike via his book or interviews or however else.

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« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2019, 10:07:35 AM »

The hell of it is, if the group reunited today, it wouldn't be anywhere near as successful as C50. The "hype" and demand is gone, and Mike is once again the bad guy, so that's the only thing  the media will focus on. And with no album or any new music, it will be shrugged off as just a typical nostalgic trip. I can't remember who it was, but somebody once said that the ending of C50 was like " grabbing defeat from the mouth of victory". I dearly wish I had come up with that, because it perfectly describes The Beach Boys in a nutshell. This band literally goes out of its way to screw things up.
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2019, 10:38:12 AM »

I have more to add on other topics, but concerning the "build up demand" issue, those claims as a reason to end C50 don't hold water for numerous reasons.

First of all, Mike had been running the "brand" ragged year after year up to the reunion, and indeed had a non-reunion gig the *very next day* after the last reunion concert date. That isn't giving the *name* part of the "brand" any rest. Literally, zero rest. Out touring the very next day!

But more to the point, the idea behind "building up demand" would be to not take the reunion lineup to 150 dates including rib cook-offs and bowling alley grand openings.

C50 easily could have booked another 100 shows through the end of 2013. Would the demand have slowed had they done 150 shows per year every year? Perhaps, but the idea then in "giving it a rest" a bit is not to DISBAND and go back to individual tours. The idea would be, after two or three years of touring, for them all to take six or twelve friggin' months off and enjoy their lives of luxury and mansions, and then come back again.

Remember, it was Carl who decades earlier wanted the band to tour less. Then, instead of playing fairs and casinos every year all year, they'd tour every two or three years and they could have been playing more amphitheaters and arenas, etc. Yes, as an audience member I like the smallest, most intimate venues. But when we're talking about demand and brand value and all of that, overtouring (both pre and post-Al/Carl) has always hurt the level of demand. It was amazing the C50 tour did so well. That was all how it was run and marketing all of that. And it could have continued....
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2019, 10:38:48 AM »

I think Mike just wanted to go back to the Mike & Bruce band. He more than met his obligation to the reunion band, originally set for 50 concerts, and later increased to what, 75. I can’t understand all of the complaints and theories over this. He more than met his obligations, and then he was done, he wanted out. He’s not a villain in this matter.

Jeff, I don't think anybody is a "villain" in this...

But...if Mike wanted "out" then perhaps he should have quit The Beach Boys and went solo. Instead what he did was quit The Beach Boys to then go right back out again days later AS The Beach Boys, despite Brian and Al wanting to continue. I don't think any of the guys should be made to do anything they don't want to, but to say Mike was being fair in the this is nonsense. He really had nothing to lose by leaving. So this isn't the same as a random person quitting a random band. He knew he had the name in his back pocket and therefore could afford to "want out."
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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2019, 12:16:46 PM »

I think Mike just wanted to go back to the Mike & Bruce band. He more than met his obligation to the reunion band, originally set for 50 concerts, and later increased to what, 75. I can’t understand all of the complaints and theories over this. He more than met his obligations, and then he was done, he wanted out. He’s not a villain in this matter.

This is the same stuff Mike says over and over in interviews. *Nobody* has ever claimed Mike didn't meet his contractual obligations. The discussion on the demise of the reunion has never centered around an idea that Mike breached any contract of anything of that nature.

The discussion has always centered on the idea that other members wanted to *continue* the reunion, and Mike didn't.

I most certainly can't understand why anyone can't grasp this crux of the debate after nearly seven years.

"I did what I was contractually obligated to do" is an answer to a question that nobody has ever asked.
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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2019, 07:12:33 PM »

The way I see it? If it was going to happen it would've continued on after the C50 dates.

TWGMTR became their highest US charting studio album since before Pet Sounds! Yeah, Joe Thomas has some weird production on TWGMTR, but overall, that really is their best album since Holland, heck, maybe even Sunflower. Their concerts were friggin celebrations, lively, they sounded incredible. It was triumphant that the boys set aside their grudges, looked past the previous lawsuits (one of which was still going on not long before the C50 started).

But behind all of this there was struggle and annoyances, I'm sure the grudges were still present, wasn't there some issue with Stamos singing Forever during one of the concerts? Mics being supposedly tethered with some sort of auto-tune gear by Melinda herself? Mike being pissed Brian got his own tour bus? Regardless of whether some of these annoyances were real, the fact that these issues were talked about afterwards means that there was tension on the tour.

But going back to the paragraph above, this was still their most triumphant time period in a long time. They had it all - they had media recognition, their fans were united and happy to see them all on stage. They had a #3 charting album. The title song was played on rock radio stations across the country (and I still hear it to this day sometimes).
Hmm....okay. I never heard ANY of the TWGMTR songs on any radio stations. That didn't surprise me. I never hear new McCartney songs on the radio, either. Last time I heard a "new" song by Paul on the radio was Hope of Deliverance back in 1993. Stations that play current music play current artists; oldies or classic rock stations only play the old hits.And the fact that TWGMTR hit #3 on the album chart seems impressive - but it was out of the top 200 within a month. Even Beach Boys 1985 had a longer chart run than that. Probably sold more, too - i heard all three of the singles from that album on the radio.
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« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2019, 07:47:18 PM »

Only point I'd pick out was the phrase "happily part ways"...Mike did not happily part ways. "A picture is worth a thousand words"...remember how the Wilsons threw a wrap party for the C50 crew in the UK...and the only two who weren't there were Mike and Bruce, who had "other commitments" even though their band members somehow made it to the dinner. Does that sound like a happy parting of ways?

Thanks for your kind words about my post! And as for the "happily parted ways" comment, I meant that solely Mike and Bruce seemed happy to leave the C50 arrangement behind them. I didn't mean to imply or state that I thought Brian, Al, and David were happy with how the C50 ended. Sorry for that mixup! I completely agree with your comments about that.

Hmm....okay. I never heard ANY of the TWGMTR songs on any radio stations. That didn't surprise me. I never hear new McCartney songs on the radio, either. Last time I heard a "new" song by Paul on the radio was Hope of Deliverance back in 1993. Stations that play current music play current artists; oldies or classic rock stations only play the old hits.And the fact that TWGMTR hit #3 on the album chart seems impressive - but it was out of the top 200 within a month. Even Beach Boys 1985 had a longer chart run than that. Probably sold more, too - i heard all three of the singles from that album on the radio.

I guess it depends on who runs the radio stations where you are. I'm pretty certain others here heard TWGMTR around the time it was released. Anywho, our own personal anecdotes about what we heard or didn't hear isn't really the point. The point was that The Beach Boys were in the best spot that they had been in a really long time: They were indeed on the radio across the country in 2012. Even if their staying power on the charts wasn't great, fact is that they made it really high on those charts...thus placing them in the best spot they had been in a long time...thus my opinion in response to OP that no BRI suit would pass that opportunity up.
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« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2019, 07:03:18 AM »

Hmm....okay. I never heard ANY of the TWGMTR songs on any radio stations. That didn't surprise me. I never hear new McCartney songs on the radio, either. Last time I heard a "new" song by Paul on the radio was Hope of Deliverance back in 1993. Stations that play current music play current artists; oldies or classic rock stations only play the old hits.And the fact that TWGMTR hit #3 on the album chart seems impressive - but it was out of the top 200 within a month. Even Beach Boys 1985 had a longer chart run than that. Probably sold more, too - i heard all three of the singles from that album on the radio.


New Beach Boys (or solo) product is not going to get spun on terrestrial radio much at all. "Kokomo" and the late 80s was probably the last time the BBs were getting any decent rotation on radio (and MTV, VH1, etc.).

Maybe a classic rock or oldies station might have spun TWGMTR a few times to promote upcoming live shows or something. But none of that stuff, even the title track, got any widespread radio airplay.

Like most "legacy" artists of a similar era, the 2012 TWGMTR album was only ever going to do well on the albums charts. Acts like the Beach Boys or McCartney still do well on album charts, not singles. McCartney stuff doesn't get tracked much on radio either, even when he makes (lame) attempts to go more modern/trendy/poppy. Again, a new track might get played now and then as a sort of novelty. But McCartney stuff isn't residing in any "hot singles" playlists.

That all being said, I'm not downplaying C50 at all. I'm (obviously, based on my billion posts on the topic over the years) the biggest fan of C50 there is. The thing, up until the amateur ending, was a best case scenario all around. The tour was received well and the shows were great, the album performed very well, as well as we could ever hope, and the PR around the tour (again, prior to the ending) was going great, even with potential hiccups along the way (Bruce's dumb TMZ moment). Cranky, crusty fans who have complained about Mike for years absolutely warmed to him on C50.

And then all the amazing work and future potential was gone in a blink.
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« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2019, 07:35:26 AM »

I heard the title track in the car, on the radio, in 2012 when the album first came out. I still remember it was on a weekend and it sounded great in the car, as most of the band's music does. Isn't it odd how I still remember when I first heard it that way? So yes it did get airplay.

Plus, again as mentioned, "legacy" artists like McCartney, Petty, even Weird Al have nearly the same chart performance as the BB's did in 2012...the new album drops, there is a spike in sales that drives it onto the charts for about a month and it may peak top-5 for the first week or two, then it's gone again. Petty and Weird Al scored #1 albums for about a week, then the albums were gone from the charts. That's the way things were around 2012-2016 and the way they are now is even more temporary in terms of albums charting in the digital and streaming age.

It's not like 1971.  Smiley  And it still gets under my skin that Mike badmouthed the album which went top 5 in 2012 because he was pissy about his "executive producer" credit (and subsequent points) when it wasn't what he wanted it to be in terms of him controlling the process.

And again, as mentioned, that's not really the point, none of it is. They were getting more positive exposure (and more exposure period) *as a band* than they had in a long time. Jimmy Fallon gave them a cold opening on his show...before the monologue, before the credits, there were the Beach Boys singing In My Room. Did anything the band had done reach that level of national exposure in the recent years of Mike's constant touring as The Beach Boys up to or after that moment? Absolutely not, and it has not since in terms of the Beach Boys as a group offering new music.

But as has been mentioned, this is all ground which has been covered again and again, yet there are still these points which pop up in attempts to either whitewash or sweep under the carpet those decisions, actions, and comments made by Mike which have rankled fans and observers since Fall 2012.

I've said it before, and will say it again and again - I think the heart of so much of this overall has centered around trying to either absolve Mike of any responsibility for the choices he made, or to try to find ways to defend or justify the things that were done to the point of ignoring the facts or trying to rewrite and recast them to put a positive spin on what happened.
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« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2019, 09:13:26 AM »

I remember reading an article about the title track of TWGMTR right when the album was released in 2012, saying it was their best song in 40 years or something to that effect. It made me seek out the song, and while it didn't blow me away quite that much I ended up buying a ticket to C50 right on the heels of that. Both the tour and the album got great press.

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« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2019, 10:04:36 AM »

Both the tour and the album got great press.




That's because for once they handled something the right way.
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