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649631 Posts in 25973 Topics by 3702 Members - Latest Member: GV August 19, 2019, 01:18:50 AM
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Author Topic: General Most Loved BB Book?  (Read 2491 times)
Shark
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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2019, 03:24:42 PM »

Great post summarizing what you would find in White's book.  I agree completely that we need to look into "why" things happened and placing things in the greater context which is what this book does so well.  It was actually the first true book I read on the band (the first of many) and in my opinion is probably the best. 
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Gettin Hungry
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« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2019, 11:39:17 AM »

The Leaf book informed my early fandom on its reissue in 1985.  Agree with Debbie that it remains the major influencer of all of the major books that followed.

Unfortunately it costs a pretty penny these days, especially for someone just starting down the BB road.

Wasn't there talk of a revised edition at some point?

I sometimes run across a book by David Leaf just called The Beach Boys (e.g. https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Beach-Boys-by-David-Leaf-1985-HC-DJ-Pages-208-Great-Condition/143246494207?epid=4474660&hash=item215a2809ff:g:MV8AAOSwO2pcjrjP). I'm assuming this is not the one in question. Just curious what it was.

That is the second edition of same book, with a further short addendum to the story included. The revised edition if you will...

Thanks for the clarification. You see the first edition go for big bucks, but this edition seems more moderately priced.


Well, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the David Leaf book I linked above. Looking forward to giving it a read. I'm adding Timothy White's book to my list.
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Debbie KL
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« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2019, 05:20:48 PM »

The Leaf book informed my early fandom on its reissue in 1985.  Agree with Debbie that it remains the major influencer of all of the major books that followed.

Unfortunately it costs a pretty penny these days, especially for someone just starting down the BB road.

Wasn't there talk of a revised edition at some point?

I sometimes run across a book by David Leaf just called The Beach Boys (e.g. https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Beach-Boys-by-David-Leaf-1985-HC-DJ-Pages-208-Great-Condition/143246494207?epid=4474660&hash=item215a2809ff:g:MV8AAOSwO2pcjrjP). I'm assuming this is not the one in question. Just curious what it was.

That is the second edition of same book, with a further short addendum to the story included. The revised edition if you will...

Thanks for the clarification. You see the first edition go for big bucks, but this edition seems more moderately priced.


Well, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the David Leaf book I linked above. Looking forward to giving it a read. I'm adding Timothy White's book to my list.

You won't be disappointed.  Both men are/were great writers who loved Brian and his music.
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Alex
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« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2019, 07:16:55 PM »

Despite all of it's flaws, I have a soft spot for Steven Gaines' Heroes and Villains, if only for all the recounting of Dennis' last days and the little details about all the business deals . And don't forget The Lost Beach Boy, that Jon Stebbins wrote with Dave Marks a few years back, lots of history of the BBs early days.
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"I thought Brian was a perfect gentleman, apart from buttering his head and trying to put it between two slices of bread"  -Tom Petty, after eating with Brian.
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« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2019, 07:13:22 AM »

Despite all of it's flaws, I have a soft spot for Steven Gaines' Heroes and Villains, if only for all the recounting of Dennis' last days and the little details about all the business deals . And don't forget The Lost Beach Boy, that Jon Stebbins wrote with Dave Marks a few years back, lots of history of the BBs early days.

The Stebbins books are all indispensible for numerous reasons (still hoping the "Real Beach Boy" update happens soon!).

The Steven Gaines "Heroes and Villains" is, for better and worse, still an important book that delves into some aspects that no other biographies have touched on much. Indeed, subsequent books (including supposedly/allegedly the 1991 Brian "autobiography") relied sometimes *heavily* on details first related in the Gaines book.

Reading the Gaines book, it's clear he got elements of the story and access to people that no other books have been able to (or have tried to). The Gaines book is *not* a great book to delve into the actual enjoyment of the music. His familiarity with the actual music released over the years seems secondary. But in terms of the *whole* story, warts and all, including all the interpersonal stuff (which *did* impact the actual band's career as well at times), the Gaines book is still important, and a key book to cover the era up to, well, whatever year that book stops (essentially around the early-mid 80s).

I think the salacious stuff (stuff like Dennis's alleged prison fantasies, etc.) kind of scared people off of the book being the first book to retell key events like the Australia '78 debacle.

Gaines actually briefly posted here, and seemed to indicate he still had *tons* of audio covering a lot of what he covered in his book. For better and worse, that stuff should not only be preserved, but made available to scholars.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 07:14:31 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2019, 09:33:32 AM »

Despite all of it's flaws, I have a soft spot for Steven Gaines' Heroes and Villains, if only for all the recounting of Dennis' last days and the little details about all the business deals . And don't forget The Lost Beach Boy, that Jon Stebbins wrote with Dave Marks a few years back, lots of history of the BBs early days.

The Stebbins books are all indispensible for numerous reasons (still hoping the "Real Beach Boy" update happens soon!).

The Steven Gaines "Heroes and Villains" is, for better and worse, still an important book that delves into some aspects that no other biographies have touched on much. Indeed, subsequent books (including supposedly/allegedly the 1991 Brian "autobiography") relied sometimes *heavily* on details first related in the Gaines book.

Reading the Gaines book, it's clear he got elements of the story and access to people that no other books have been able to (or have tried to). The Gaines book is *not* a great book to delve into the actual enjoyment of the music. His familiarity with the actual music released over the years seems secondary. But in terms of the *whole* story, warts and all, including all the interpersonal stuff (which *did* impact the actual band's career as well at times), the Gaines book is still important, and a key book to cover the era up to, well, whatever year that book stops (essentially around the early-mid 80s).

I think the salacious stuff (stuff like Dennis's alleged prison fantasies, etc.) kind of scared people off of the book being the first book to retell key events like the Australia '78 debacle.

Gaines actually briefly posted here, and seemed to indicate he still had *tons* of audio covering a lot of what he covered in his book. For better and worse, that stuff should not only be preserved, but made available to scholars.



Ed Roach mentioned in a post to me on another board (and I believe on this one as well) that he was surprised at how factual Gaines' report of Dennis' last months was. IIRC he said that there was stuff in there, Ed thought only he would know.
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

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To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

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Debbie KL
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« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2019, 04:57:03 PM »

Despite all of it's flaws, I have a soft spot for Steven Gaines' Heroes and Villains, if only for all the recounting of Dennis' last days and the little details about all the business deals . And don't forget The Lost Beach Boy, that Jon Stebbins wrote with Dave Marks a few years back, lots of history of the BBs early days.

The Stebbins books are all indispensible for numerous reasons (still hoping the "Real Beach Boy" update happens soon!).

The Steven Gaines "Heroes and Villains" is, for better and worse, still an important book that delves into some aspects that no other biographies have touched on much. Indeed, subsequent books (including supposedly/allegedly the 1991 Brian "autobiography") relied sometimes *heavily* on details first related in the Gaines book.

Reading the Gaines book, it's clear he got elements of the story and access to people that no other books have been able to (or have tried to). The Gaines book is *not* a great book to delve into the actual enjoyment of the music. His familiarity with the actual music released over the years seems secondary. But in terms of the *whole* story, warts and all, including all the interpersonal stuff (which *did* impact the actual band's career as well at times), the Gaines book is still important, and a key book to cover the era up to, well, whatever year that book stops (essentially around the early-mid 80s).

I think the salacious stuff (stuff like Dennis's alleged prison fantasies, etc.) kind of scared people off of the book being the first book to retell key events like the Australia '78 debacle.

Gaines actually briefly posted here, and seemed to indicate he still had *tons* of audio covering a lot of what he covered in his book. For better and worse, that stuff should not only be preserved, but made available to scholars.



Ed Roach mentioned in a post to me on another board (and I believe on this one as well) that he was surprised at how factual Gaines' report of Dennis' last months was. IIRC he said that there was stuff in there, Ed thought only he would know.

Stephen became close with a number of key people, so I'm not surprised that this was accurate. He's a very likeable man personally - very witty and warm. I did NOT want to be in his book and hired an attorney in hopes of staying out of it, but it really wasn't feasible. Stephen knew that tabloid stuff sells (being successful with that previously), but he was actually a decent person. I think his friendships with Karen Lamm, Cynthia Lennon and others were very real. I got the impression he really cared about the BB's and friends, unlike a hateful fantasist UK author whom some people still believe. I refuse to name him. He was a drug addict at the time who simply made things up about people. Stephen Gaines would never do that.
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JK
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« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2019, 01:28:18 PM »

Stephen became close with a number of key people, so I'm not surprised that this was accurate. He's a very likeable man personally - very witty and warm. I did NOT want to be in his book and hired an attorney in hopes of staying out of it, but it really wasn't feasible. Stephen knew that tabloid stuff sells (being successful with that previously), but he was actually a decent person. I think his friendships with Karen Lamm, Cynthia Lennon and others were very real. I got the impression he really cared about the BB's and friends, unlike a hateful fantasist UK author whom some people still believe. I refuse to name him. He was a drug addict at the time who simply made things up about people. Stephen Gaines would never do that.

Thanks, Debbie. Gaines' H&V tends to get run down so it's good to hear a first-hand positive account of the man.
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