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Author Topic: The Beach Boys: "America's Band": All-inclusive  (Read 1927 times)
chewy
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« on: April 24, 2019, 12:08:06 PM »

I JUST WANT TO SAY SOMETHING.  I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING.  THE BEACH BOYS, "AMERICA'S BAND" AS THEY WERE DUBBED, WERE JUST THAT.  although they were formed by white people, the beach boys brought in blacks, filipinos, puerto ricans, and even greeks (stamos, lol). to contribute to the group sound.   The spirit of america indeed!
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NateRuvin
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2019, 06:19:30 PM »

Cool way to look at it. I never looked at it from that perspective, but you're very right. I often ask people to describe The Beach Boys, and get the whole 50's white suburban thing, followed by a shocked look after I show them a 72-73 era picture of the group.
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rab2591
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2019, 12:59:13 PM »

I JUST WANT TO SAY SOMETHING.  I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING.  THE BEACH BOYS, "AMERICA'S BAND" AS THEY WERE DUBBED, WERE JUST THAT.  although they were formed by white people, the beach boys brought in blacks, filipinos, puerto ricans, and even greeks (stamos, lol). to contribute to the group sound.   The spirit of america indeed!

https://www.popmatters.com/racializing-rock-the-60s-and-the-white-sounds-of-pet-sounds-2495414567.html

Quote
Pet Sounds is not a racist text, but its impact was racist because it further encoded rock as a white genre, perpetuating the institutionalized prejudice that relegated African Americans to the margins of rock.

Granted, this is the same online cesspool that published a NPP review where the reviewer didn't bother to fact-check or do even the slightest amount of logical thinking before writing the piece. Not surprising in the era of click-bait yellow journalism.

_______

But Chewy, you are ABSOLUTELY right though! This music brings together so many styles, so many people. I mean, even from the latest 20/20 set release, there was that track/story about the African American kid they found rapping (probably the wrong terminology but I'm not sure what else to call it) on a street in New York and decided to pull him into a studio and record him - and now he and his rap from 1968 are a solidified part of Beach Boys history. How freakin cool is that?!

And the main thing is this: The music is about love. You can't not be knocked out by some of those harmonies, no matter where you're from. It is hitting something spiritual and loving...both lyrically at times and sonically. The Beach Boys could not help growing up white suburban kids. But man they took their white suburban life and morphed it into an enterprise that accepted people of all colors, religions, and cultures...that in itself is something incredible...and I'm pretty proud to consider The Beach Boys to be my favorite musical group ever.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 01:02:30 PM by rab2591 » Logged

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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2019, 07:46:45 PM »

I JUST WANT TO SAY SOMETHING.  I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING.  THE BEACH BOYS, "AMERICA'S BAND" AS THEY WERE DUBBED, WERE JUST THAT.  although they were formed by white people, the beach boys brought in blacks, filipinos, puerto ricans, and even greeks (stamos, lol). to contribute to the group sound.   The spirit of america indeed!

https://www.popmatters.com/racializing-rock-the-60s-and-the-white-sounds-of-pet-sounds-2495414567.html

Quote
Pet Sounds is not a racist text, but its impact was racist because it further encoded rock as a white genre, perpetuating the institutionalized prejudice that relegated African Americans to the margins of rock.

Granted, this is the same online cesspool that published a NPP review where the reviewer didn't bother to fact-check or do even the slightest amount of logical thinking before writing the piece. Not surprising in the era of click-bait yellow journalism.

_______

But Chewy, you are ABSOLUTELY right though! This music brings together so many styles, so many people. I mean, even from the latest 20/20 set release, there was that track/story about the African American kid they found rapping (probably the wrong terminology but I'm not sure what else to call it) on a street in New York and decided to pull him into a studio and record him - and now he and his rap from 1968 are a solidified part of Beach Boys history. How freakin cool is that?!

And the main thing is this: The music is about love. You can't not be knocked out by some of those harmonies, no matter where you're from. It is hitting something spiritual and loving...both lyrically at times and sonically. The Beach Boys could not help growing up white suburban kids. But man they took their white suburban life and morphed it into an enterprise that accepted people of all colors, religions, and cultures...that in itself is something incredible...and I'm pretty proud to consider The Beach Boys to be my favorite musical group ever.

Love this post, rab2591.  Totally agreed
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NateRuvin
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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2019, 07:24:43 AM »

And to add to the diversity, David Marks is Jewish...
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marcella27
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2019, 10:55:04 AM »

I JUST WANT TO SAY SOMETHING.  I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING.  THE BEACH BOYS, "AMERICA'S BAND" AS THEY WERE DUBBED, WERE JUST THAT.  although they were formed by white people, the beach boys brought in blacks, filipinos, puerto ricans, and even greeks (stamos, lol). to contribute to the group sound.   The spirit of america indeed!

https://www.popmatters.com/racializing-rock-the-60s-and-the-white-sounds-of-pet-sounds-2495414567.html

Quote
Pet Sounds is not a racist text, but its impact was racist because it further encoded rock as a white genre, perpetuating the institutionalized prejudice that relegated African Americans to the margins of rock.

Granted, this is the same online cesspool that published a NPP review where the reviewer didn't bother to fact-check or do even the slightest amount of logical thinking before writing the piece. Not surprising in the era of click-bait yellow journalism.

_______

But Chewy, you are ABSOLUTELY right though! This music brings together so many styles, so many people. I mean, even from the latest 20/20 set release, there was that track/story about the African American kid they found rapping (probably the wrong terminology but I'm not sure what else to call it) on a street in New York and decided to pull him into a studio and record him - and now he and his rap from 1968 are a solidified part of Beach Boys history. How freakin cool is that?!

And the main thing is this: The music is about love. You can't not be knocked out by some of those harmonies, no matter where you're from. It is hitting something spiritual and loving...both lyrically at times and sonically. The Beach Boys could not help growing up white suburban kids. But man they took their white suburban life and morphed it into an enterprise that accepted people of all colors, religions, and cultures...that in itself is something incredible...and I'm pretty proud to consider The Beach Boys to be my favorite musical group ever.


Yeah.  That Pop Matters article made me livid when I read it.  I absolutely hate that kind of navel-gazing, self-important, what Woody Allen would call mental masturbation.  Yes, Pet Sounds has been analyzed beyond belief and some of those analyses are quite interesting.  But sometimes the analysis goes way too far and at a certain point I want to say, listen man, it's just an album.  It's just a collection of songs, which are made up of musical notes and words.  I fail to see how that can "perpetuate the institutionalized prejudice that relegated African Americans to the margins of rock". 

The bottom line is that a lot of people write these things and they don't actually know what they're talking about.   They're trying to write something earth-shattering and they just end up writing a lot of nonsense. 

While many (many) people would argue that you can't separate the art from the artist, I really believe that music is about music.  If I listen to a piece of music not knowing anything about who made it, and the music itself speaks to me, that is what matters. 

But yeah, it is annoying that the BBs are commonly viewed as this super white-bread band when in fact they were very much influenced by a number of black musicians, and also had an ethnically diverse group of musicians in the band itself.  But it's pretty much the same with everything BB-related:  the general public's perception of them is, by and large, wrong. 
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Emdeeh
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2019, 11:10:46 AM »

And a woman in the backup band, Toni Tenille.
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HeyJude
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2019, 12:13:30 PM »

And a woman in the backup band, Toni Tenille.

I wouldn't say the organization on the whole, and/or at least certain members with vested interests at various times, gets a lot of brownie points on that count. Setting aside the ridiculous cheerleader bit from the late 80s into the 90s, when BRI went after Al Jardine in 1999 over his "Family & Friends" band, having female vocalists was apparently cited as one of the strikes against Al's band. From a 1999 Rolling Stone article (pertinent points in bold yellow):

Rolling Stone Online – December 8, 1999

“Beach Boy vs. Beach Boy”

While the Beach Boys were once musically illustrious, in the Nineties they’ve
spent more time in the courtroom than the recording studio. Lead singer Mike
Love sued his cousin Brian Wilson over composer credits. Carl Wilson led a
conservatorship to separate Brian from his controversial therapist Eugene Landy,
while the entire band sued Brian over statements in his biography. Now, the
band’s management is suing guitarist Al Jardine over his new band’s name “The
Beach Boys Family and Friends.”


The case comes to a head next Monday (Dec. 13) when Brother Records International
(BRI), the owner and administrator of the band’s trademark, will enter a Los
Angeles courtroom and attempt to permanently enjoin founding member Jardine,
57, from using any variation of the Beach Boys’ name. The action is directed
at a New Year’s Eve show in Huntington Station, NY,
and is the third time this year that BRI has filed a similar claim. (The others were dismissed.)


Jardine has filed his own lengthy counterclaim, and has insisted that he is taking
considerable pains to differentiate his touring outfit from that headed by Love, 58.
Jardine, was one of five founding Beach Boys, along with Love and the three
Wilson brothers -- Brian, Dennis and Carl. He did not play on the band’s earliest
Capitol albums, having left to attend school, but rejoined just before the Beach
Boys’ peak in the mid-Sixties.


He was not as well known as Love or the Wilsons, but was essential nonetheless.
He sang lead on “Help Me, Rhonda” and subsequently suggested that Brian
Wilson record the folk song “Sloop John B.” He also sang many of Brian’s
lead vocal parts onstage after Brian quit the road in 1965. BRI defines the Beach Boys
in legal terms as “smooth four-part harmonies, with all four males at the front of
the stage”; up until ‘98, Jardine was always one of those voices.


Love’s outfit is now billed as “The Beach Boys” while Jardine travels as “The
Beach Boys Family and Friends.” BRI now objects to Jardine using the Beach Boys
name in any format, and has awarded an “exclusive license” to Love for use of the
name -- even though each band has only one original member.


“Mike is the Beach Boys,” said BRI attorney Michael Flynn. “He sang and wrote
many of the original songs, and is recognizable to audiences as the band’s leader.
To have Al out there touring as the Beach Boys dilutes the trademark, but worst of
all it confuses the public.” Jardine’s lawyer, Vincent Chieffo, counters, “Alan is as
much of a Beach Boy as Mike, and it is deceptive for Mike to represent himself as
‘The Beach Boys.’ Mike is touring as he has for years, but is keeping the profits
once claimed by Carl and Alan for himself.”


Expectations notwithstanding, there is no confusion once you’ve entered the
venue. Love’s lieutenants are singer-keyboardist Bruce Johnston and guitarist David
Marks, both peripheral players in the band’s long history. Jardine brings along
his two sons, along with Carnie and Wendy Wilson (Brian Wilson’s daughters, formerly with Wilson
Phillips). This is a major bone of contention, as BRI objects strenuously
to including “girls” in a Beach Boys context. Jardine disagrees, saying that
the female voices provide a boost that the music needs.


Love presents a fast-paced thirty songs, drawn predominantly
from the surf years, in ninety minutes. Jardine has worked some of the more
artistically heralded, yet less commercially successful material from Pet Sounds
to Holland into the set with the surf/car/fun songs. In doing this, Jardine has run
afoul of the corporation. From the complaint: “Much of Jardine’s repertoire with
Beach Boys Family and Friends include many songs that the Beach Boys do not
regularly play in concert, songs [that] are about many issues that are not traditionally
associated with the Beach Boys, i.e. cars, surf, girls and fun.” Here, Love may be
flouting his own rules, as some of the songs on his set list -- “In My Room,”
“God Only Knows” -- don’t exactly fit the criteria. Love has also turned much of
the set into an all-purpose oldies show, including such classics as “Duke of Earl”
and “Why Do Fools Fall In Love?”

Jardine’s inability to convince either Brian Wilson or Carl Wilson’s estate -- the
other shareholders -- to vote with him cripples his position (to convince either
would bring about a deadlock). According to Flynn, the Wilsons’ position has
little to do with family or friendship. “Mike has maybe five years of touring left,
and he generates a lot of income. Having Al out there threatens this income and
dilutes the trademark. So the Wilsons are only protecting their own interests.”
Does this mean that a profit motive has eclipsed friendship? “I don’t think there’s
been any friendship there for a while,” he said.

These struggles came to a head in 1997, when Love stated he would not appear
with either Jardine or Carl Wilson. BRI president (and Beach Boys manager) Elliott
Lott acknowledged the line was drawn, but defined it as an example of tough
love. “You need to put this into perspective,” he said. “Carl was very sick. He’d
lost his hair and had to wear a wig. He needed oxygen after every song. Mike
didn’t want to appear with Carl out of love for him.”

Carl Wilson died in February 1998. As the band’s longtime mediator, he had held
a balance between its arguing factions, and, according to several sources, his
death allowed these situations to become fractious.

If this band has become a corporation, it is also an institution. “I think the Beach
Boys should go on even if only Mike Love is in it,” said former Byrds leader
Roger McGuinn in an e-mail to Rolling Stone. “It would be sad for the world not
to have a Beach Boys band. I wouldn’t be in a band like that myself, but if Mike
wants to do it, it’s okay with me.”

At this point in the band’s history, it’s sad that the two men who collaborated on
the lyric “omnipresent love surrounds you/Wisdom warming as the sun/You and
I are truly one” (from 1972’s “All This Is That”) can now only snarl at each other
from across a courtroom.
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« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2019, 12:19:19 PM »

Al also speaks to the Carnie/Wendy issue vis-a-vis BRI in this (intriguingly slightly surly) 2005 interview:

Q: Are Brian's daughters, Wendy and Carnie, still with the Endless Summer Band?

A: No, they were intimidated out. They were told women may not sing Beach Boys songs. That's Mike's and Brian's lawyers saying that. (The corporation voted) that my band did not have the look and feel of the Beach Boys because it had women in it. These are Brian Wilson's daughters, who sound better than he does. It's corporate America run amok.


Full interview here: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/interesting-al-jardine-interview.60741/
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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2019, 03:50:49 PM »

I agree that the cheerleaders were ridiculous and unnecessary. And they often blocked my view of the musicians I wanted to see!

I forget to mention that my take on the BBs is that they broke up in early 1998 (and again in late 2012). Family and Friends sounded most like the BBs, of the splinter acts touring at the time. No further comment on the legal mess -- I'll leave that to the rest of you.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 03:54:01 PM by Emdeeh » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2019, 11:00:16 AM »

The whole thing regarding the post-98 touring band(s) has been an absolute mess... I suppose I am typically what'd be referred to as a "Mike apologist" or whatever, but I will never defend the way he treated Al & co. during this era. I can defend a lot of what Love has done, but this situation was pretty much just him being a prick, screwing over Al, to keep his touring machine maximizing profits. I wasn't going to BBs concerts in the late 90's, but I'm nearly certain that Al's touring outfit held no real threat to Mike's. Similarly to how Brian's band can tour the country for the last 20 years, without affecting Mike's business (as he's obviously still able to do hundreds of dates a year) I just can't imagine a world where people would go to see the Fam & Friends band, with two women on stage, and thought "Oh yeah, I'm seeing The Beach Boys" it's just such a ridiculous angle. As we talked about recently in another thread, Jan & Dean were able to tour playing mostly BBs songs from 78-81 and 83-2004 no problem. Dean still has a ratio of roughly 25 BBs tunes to 5-7 J&D tunes... Mike never took them to court.

I can completely understand and justify a just Mike and backing band Beach Boys. Mike, in many respects, is the embodiment of The BBs onstage (being the only live member who never quit the group). I DO have a problem though, with Mike limiting or telling the other guys what they can or can't do. If Mike wants to tour extensively as "The Beach Boys", awesome, I'll see him everytime he comes to town. No problem. But when he starts telling Al who he can play with or what songs he can play, it's totally ludicrous (yes, I know it wasn't JUST Mike, there were lawyers and business men involved, but the whole issue wouldn't have arisen without Mike)

I'm not gonna lie though, hearing about the extent Mike went to, to basically sabotage Al leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. At the end of the day, I really just feel bad for Al. He worked his ass in the band just like Mike did, and all of a sudden couldn't even play his own songs anymore. I'm happy he eventually worked out his Endless Summer band, Surf City Allstars (with Dean Torrence and David Marks), joined BW after C50, and now has his storyteller show. Despite Mike's apparent attempts at being the only touring BBs outfit, Al has made a pretty nice little solo career for himself. And now with the Fam & Friends band reuniting, does this mean another sh*t show from Mike? The name being "Al Jardine Family & Friends Beach Party" is a very clever, and clear avoidance of the former "Beach Boys" association. The "Beach Party" thing makes me chuckle, Dean Torrence has his "Jan & Dean Beach Party" which I saw over the summer (INCREDIBLE show btw, just as good as Mike or Brian's in my opinion) which is just a fancy billing for the aforementioned Surf City Allstars. Why all these amazing musicians have to attatch "Beach Party" to their name is just kinda funny at this point. I understand it in the 90's full house cheerleader era. But I feel like many people who are going out to see BBs related shows actually appreciate the musical complexity and could care less about a "Beach Party" (You could say, people who go to Mike or Dean Torrence are looking for a "Beach Party", but God Only Knows and Wouldn't It Be Nice always get better receptions than 409 , for example, at the shows I've been to)

The Beach Boys politics is just so confusing, maybe now just as much as ever. C50 ended so awkwardly, with there being literal sides taken (Mike&Bruce vs Brian&Al), the weird Town Hall with Mike's shirts,  and now you've got Al's solo shows + Fam & Friends show coming up (Mike possibly upset?), doc about BW (didn't someone on here say Mike's trying to get one made too?), AND rumors of a reunion (Which I'm probably getting too excited for).   Things are certainly gonna be interesting.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 11:31:50 AM by NateRuvin » Logged
chewy
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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2019, 12:27:27 PM »

whoa thats pretty crazy the lawyers brought women singers up as a strike against al
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2019, 11:42:34 AM »

The whole thing regarding the post-98 touring band(s) has been an absolute mess... I suppose I am typically what'd be referred to as a "Mike apologist" or whatever, but I will never defend the way he treated Al & co. during this era. I can defend a lot of what Love has done, but this situation was pretty much just him being a prick, screwing over Al, to keep his touring machine maximizing profits. I wasn't going to BBs concerts in the late 90's, but I'm nearly certain that Al's touring outfit held no real threat to Mike's. Similarly to how Brian's band can tour the country for the last 20 years, without affecting Mike's business (as he's obviously still able to do hundreds of dates a year) I just can't imagine a world where people would go to see the Fam & Friends band, with two women on stage, and thought "Oh yeah, I'm seeing The Beach Boys" it's just such a ridiculous angle. As we talked about recently in another thread, Jan & Dean were able to tour playing mostly BBs songs from 78-81 and 83-2004 no problem. Dean still has a ratio of roughly 25 BBs tunes to 5-7 J&D tunes... Mike never took them to court.

I can completely understand and justify a just Mike and backing band Beach Boys. Mike, in many respects, is the embodiment of The BBs onstage (being the only live member who never quit the group). I DO have a problem though, with Mike limiting or telling the other guys what they can or can't do. If Mike wants to tour extensively as "The Beach Boys", awesome, I'll see him everytime he comes to town. No problem. But when he starts telling Al who he can play with or what songs he can play, it's totally ludicrous (yes, I know it wasn't JUST Mike, there were lawyers and business men involved, but the whole issue wouldn't have arisen without Mike)

I'm not gonna lie though, hearing about the extent Mike went to, to basically sabotage Al leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. At the end of the day, I really just feel bad for Al. He worked his ass in the band just like Mike did, and all of a sudden couldn't even play his own songs anymore. I'm happy he eventually worked out his Endless Summer band, Surf City Allstars (with Dean Torrence and David Marks), joined BW after C50, and now has his storyteller show. Despite Mike's apparent attempts at being the only touring BBs outfit, Al has made a pretty nice little solo career for himself. And now with the Fam & Friends band reuniting, does this mean another sh*t show from Mike? The name being "Al Jardine Family & Friends Beach Party" is a very clever, and clear avoidance of the former "Beach Boys" association. The "Beach Party" thing makes me chuckle, Dean Torrence has his "Jan & Dean Beach Party" which I saw over the summer (INCREDIBLE show btw, just as good as Mike or Brian's in my opinion) which is just a fancy billing for the aforementioned Surf City Allstars. Why all these amazing musicians have to attatch "Beach Party" to their name is just kinda funny at this point. I understand it in the 90's full house cheerleader era. But I feel like many people who are going out to see BBs related shows actually appreciate the musical complexity and could care less about a "Beach Party" (You could say, people who go to Mike or Dean Torrence are looking for a "Beach Party", but God Only Knows and Wouldn't It Be Nice always get better receptions than 409 , for example, at the shows I've been to)

The Beach Boys politics is just so confusing, maybe now just as much as ever. C50 ended so awkwardly, with there being literal sides taken (Mike&Bruce vs Brian&Al), the weird Town Hall with Mike's shirts,  and now you've got Al's solo shows + Fam & Friends show coming up (Mike possibly upset?), doc about BW (didn't someone on here say Mike's trying to get one made too?), AND rumors of a reunion (Which I'm probably getting too excited for).   Things are certainly gonna be interesting.


What a gentleman Al is for not publicly talking about Mike having a bloated ego and acting wretchedly to him (to the detriment of the band and its reputation). I don't have any doubt that all of the band members have privately discussed Mike's ego behind closed doors with their spouses and friends, but they probably know it would not do them any favors to simply have a frank discussion about it in an interview.  

Which is odd, because Brian's mental issues have been fair game as a topic for public discussion and scrutiny for so many years. Same with Denny's issues.  But Mike's behavior and his underlying causes are some sort of white elephant that can never be discussed except by fans, some well-meaning and some not, on message boards.  Why is mental illness when it pertains to narcissism something that society is afraid to talk about publicly? It's great that we are at a point where mental illness as experienced by Brian Wilson is something that can be discussed with care and nuance - and it's a positive because people will hopefully be more inclined to get help and be more aware. What favors do we do by covering up for Mike and just pretending like  behaviors like his are ok and acceptable?

To keep the peace, Al and Brian  just grin and bear it, or on rare occasion (like right after C50), they talk about unfair treatment by Mike but with kid gloves in terms of avoiding addressing the deeper overall issues.

As I've said for many years, I think Mike would gain major brownie points with the public by just addressing having acted like a dick publicly, and apologizing for some specific stuff without any "buts", but that will seemingly never, ever happen.  It's a shame. I want to see him have a better reputation.

It's a testament to the legitimately fine work that Mike has done over the years with the band that his bandmates and fans grudgingly have tolerated stuff like this. The no women clause to disenfranchise Al is really next level. Not cool.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 12:00:11 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2019, 12:34:51 PM »

I remember reading some interview where Mike said the group had sessions with a psychiatrist because of issues with Al, in an effort to work it out.
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« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2019, 01:20:28 PM »

I remember reading some interview where Mike said the group had sessions with a psychiatrist because of issues with Al, in an effort to work it out.

Yes, Mike discusses this is his 1992 Goldmine interview:

Mike talks about Al Jardine:

... And I told Al... we had a rough time the last couple of years communicating. He's definitely been on a bummer for many years based on some things that have happened to him historically. Different than what happened to me with Brian with respect to the writing but a similar effect on him emotionally. And me, I ignore it and go straight ahead and I think more of the future. Al has this thing where he'll obsess on something that happened 20 years ago. It's hard for him to let go.

So we've actually been having group meetings between Carl, myself and Al with the psychiatrist Howard Bloomfield, who's a good friend of mine and a board member of the Love Foundation, and we've done a lot of healing kind of things, airing grievances and working things out. It's been very therapeutic for all of us individually and collectively. I think we've gotten to understand each other and see the other's point of view and experience and it's made the group better and stronger.

That confirms a report i heard a little while back that Al Jardine had left the Beach Boys.

We got to the point where we didn't want to be in the same room or on stage with him because he was so negative about things. He was negative about certain things and once we were able to get into a forum, an area where he was able to unload some of that, we could empathize with some of it, not all of it, and air our points of view and it resolved all that stuff.

Are you getting along better now?

A lot better. But the point is he wasn't even on the album until a couple of months ago when we finally resolved all the stuff. Then he came in and I told Al he made a good song great. It's not that we couldn't do an album and do it well without Al Jardine around. Or the same goes for anybody. You're talking the Beach Boys, you're going to get someone to listen anyway. But on several songs it went from good to great. And Carl, God, he's a monster on the album. I think he sounds phenomenal, the most commercial he's ever sounded.


Full interview: http://troun.tripod.com/mikelove.html

To recap, they attended some sort of group therapy with one of *MIKE'S* friends as the therapist; a guy who was a member of *MIKE'S* organization.

Imagine going to marriage counseling with your spouse's best friend as the therapist.

Also hilarious that Mike talks about how he doesn't dwell on the past and looks to the future. To clarify, this 1992 interview is one of the early examples of Mike ranting about the songwriting credits/royalties issues, and he's STILL ranting about it to this day in interviews *27 YEARS LATER.*

Nevertheless, despite the whole thing sounding absurd, this is an important Mike interview with a ton of info to chew on packed into it. It's one of the only times the SIP-era estrangement between Al and Mike around 1992 was addressed. I weigh Mike's side of the story accordingly, but even reading his interview with healthy skepticism, it's certainly interesting.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 01:21:12 PM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2019, 03:01:04 PM »


To recap, they attended some sort of group therapy with one of *MIKE'S* friends as the therapist; a guy who was a member of *MIKE'S* organization.

Imagine going to marriage counseling with your spouse's best friend as the therapist.
 

It's a pretty unethical move, to have a therapist in one's back pocket, so to speak. The fact that Mike actually publicly admitted it in an interview without as much as a thought that this was a questionable move at best is just baffling. I mean, that's kind of a Landy type move, if we're all to be honest here. Not the admitting it part, but the whole idea of ignoring the rule of a therapist should not be connected in other beneficial (to the therapist) areas of their patients' lives.

Only a year or so before Mike got his friend onboard to be the "impartial" therapist in this Al/Mike "group therapy" situation, a late-era episode of the TV show "Dallas" aired, where JR Ewing secretly paid off a marriage therapist in order to tip the scales to get a desired result from his wife, Cally.

Maybe Dallas was playing in the tour bus and Mike got the idea?  LOL


Here's a direct link to the scene in question:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x734w20?start=1130


« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 03:16:26 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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