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648662 Posts in 25947 Topics by 3701 Members - Latest Member: Little E. Honda July 20, 2019, 03:08:20 PM
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Author Topic: Career mishaps??  (Read 4696 times)
RJM
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« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2019, 08:30:46 PM »

How about having little to no licensed merchandise, outside of concerts or promo materials?  When I was a teen in the 80s, I would have killed to have a BB t-shirt, poster, buttons, patches, etc.  Even now, it bugs me to go into a store and find merch for lots of bands, but never anything Beach Boys. 

Even Brian could have gotten into that game during the time that he was touring SMiLE. How cool would it have been to see t-shirts with 1966 Brian alongside t-shirts with the Beatles, Pink Floyd, and Johnny Cash?
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« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2019, 03:30:09 PM »

Re: licensed merch - I just remembered those little die-cast cars from circa 1999.  After going wedding-dress shopping, my mom and I stopped at a brand new Target store, the first one in our area.  They had all of the cars on a endcap display, and I bought one of each. 
Last year, my mom and I stopped for lunch at a Cracker Barrel after she picked me up at the airport to go to a family gathering.  The shop happened to have a navy-blue tee with a cool Surfin USA design.
Also, there was the Reyn Spooner Aloha shirts that incorporated the album covers.  And i was in a Pendelton outlet a few years ago, and saw that they carry the shirt in what they call "Beach Boys Plaid", with a little label inside explaining the BB connection.  The price tag had a picture on the back from the Paradise Cove photo shoot.  My husband and I both have those shirts. 
So yeah, there is a bit of merch, but you really have to look to find it, and it's not likely to be around forever.
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« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2019, 11:55:24 AM »

Main ones?

Imo...

- Not releasing Smile in spring 1967
- Not headlining Monterey Pop
- Not releasing a fragmented version of Smile - anything over the Smiley Smile re-recordings.
- Waltz pop is endearing, but as a career step Friends was nothing but a complete disaster.
- Not including 4th of July and WIBNTLA on Surf's Up.
- Not releasing Good Timin' as their comeback single in 1974/1975.
- Losing Ricky Fataar and Blondie Chaplin as band members.
- Losing Jack Rieley as band manager.
- 15 Big Ones. An album of originals was desired and warranted.
- Having any of Mike's family members involved in any capacity whatsoever.
- Allowing BJ back into the group, their very own Ned Flanders.

No need to address more points. Beyond 1979 it was all over anyway...
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 12:21:14 PM by Cabinessenceking » Logged
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« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2019, 12:33:26 PM »

Imo it was not appearing at Monterey and not releasing a strong album of original material in '76.
I don't count the non-release of Smile, as there really wasn't a possibility to release it, as it wasn't even finished. I also limit my focus on the 60s and 70s, when they were a relevant act. For the latter years I think the main "mishaps" were not recording and releasing an album with Brian in the 90s featuring his then new songs ("Soul searching" "You're still a mystery" etc) and of course not continuing the band in 2012 while Brian was already thinking up songs for another album (btw I was one of the persons who said there shouldn't be another album after the strong ending of TWGMTR, but after hearing how good they still sounded and Brian being actually inspired and "in for it", could've made for some super new music).
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« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2019, 08:36:22 PM »

Too many to count

. Releasing Ten Little Indians as a single instead of Chug-a-Lug
. Brian becoming acquaintances with Loren Daro
. Brian taping over the master tapes of The Little Girl I Once Knew with Row Row Row Your Boat
. Pulling out of the Monterey Pop Festival
. Not releasing new material for eight months after the release of Good Vibrations
. Brian spending too much time on the Heroes and Villains single and letting SMiLE die as a result
. Releasing Then I Kissed Her as a single in April 1967
. Not releasing Vega-Tables as a single
. Releasing Gettin' Hungry as a single
. Releasing Smiley Smile as the follow-up to Pet Sounds
. Not releasing Lei'd in Hawaii
. Releasing Bluebirds Over the Mountain as a single
. Not releasing Can't Wait Too Long as a single in 1968
. Brian not hiring a lawyer before signing over Sea of Tunes to Murry
. Releasing Add Some Music to Your Day as the lead debut single of their Reprise career
. Releasing Cool Cool Water as a single, with It's About Time as the b-side
. Releasing Slip on Through as a single, with This Whole World as the b-side
. Not including Fourth of July and (Wouldn't it Be Nice) To Live Again on the Surf's Up album
. Including Take a Load Off Your Feet on the Surf's Up album
. Not realizing Mt. Vernon and Fairway (A Fairy Tale) to its full potential
. Releasing Child of Winter as a single two days before Christmas
. Not releasing Good Timin' in early 1975
. Releasing 15 Big Ones as the follow-up to Holland
. Releasing Susie Cincinnati as the b-side to three singles, before including it AGAIN on 15 Big Ones
. Releasing It's OK, a sure summer hit, in late August 1976
. Releasing Honkin' Down the Highway as the lead single off of Love You
. Not releasing Adult/Child
. Only including one track from Adult/Child on the MIU Album
. Including Hey Little Tomboy on the MIU Album
. Releasing MIU Album as the follow-up to Love You
. Rejecting Constant Companion for LA (Light Album)
. Including Here Comes the Night on LA (Light Album)
. Not releasing the Curt Boettcher mix of Shortenin' Bread as a single
. Everything about the year 1981
. Releasing It's OK AGAIN as the b-side to It's Gettin' Late in 1985
. Allowing the 1995 reunion album to die
. Little-to-no marketing for the recent copyright extension releases

  Why do you consider "Honkin' Down the Highway" a mistake as the single from LOVE YOU? I think the mistake was releasing the LP April 11 and waiting until May 30 to put out any single. Also, editing out the drum intro for the single. (I could see "The Night Was So Young" as the single btw)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 08:37:28 PM by Steven » Logged
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« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2019, 09:10:40 PM »

I personally think Let Us Go On This Way should’ve been the first single, personally
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« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2019, 01:11:48 PM »

Here are 10 off the top of my head (some minor and some major, but all standouts for me):

*All the spoken word tracks on the albums from 1962-1965
*The title of their fifth album, which absolutely should have been called Fun, Fun, Fun instead
*Not immediately building on the momentum of Good Vibrations (arguably the biggest one)
*The fact that Never Learn Not to Love actually made it onto an album
*The sale of Sea of Tunes (another big one)
*Given the amount of quality unreleased material they had by 1970, using Student Demonstration Time on an album
*The loss of both Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar around the same time as the release of Endless Summer (another big one)
*The "Brian's Back!" campaign and the half-and-half concept of 15 Big Ones
*The direction Mike took the band from 1979 to 2011 (arguably the biggest one)
*Al, Bruce, and even Carl allowing themselves to become Mike's Messengers

BONUS: Brian not quitting the Beach Boys in 1966 and doing Good Vibrations and Smile as solo works

Regardless, I don't see the non-release of Smile itself as a mistake because it was more or less a foregone conclusion given the circumstances at the time. What happened instead, i.e. having the releases of Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, and Friends all somehow happen in the space of 10 months, was anything but a mistake. In retrospect, the fact that they managed to get back on track that quickly with three of their best albums is seriously impressive.
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« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2019, 06:33:26 AM »

Cancellation of the world tour in 1977??? Of course if they didn't,  the whole world would see what Australia would see.
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« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2019, 08:01:41 AM »

Mike's decision not to continue making music and performing with the C50 lineup, latter part of 2012. The band was on fire and in demand for the first time in ages, having scored a top-5 album of original music and one of the most acclaimed tours of that year, and Mike chose to walk away. It's right up there on the "what could've been" list from the band's entire career.

This.

This was redemption for everyone involved and Mike decided, “nah.”

There's....a lot more to the story than that. The truth is...there's someone else who shares initials with him who's a lot more to blame for that happening.
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« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2019, 09:13:04 AM »

Mike's decision not to continue making music and performing with the C50 lineup, latter part of 2012. The band was on fire and in demand for the first time in ages, having scored a top-5 album of original music and one of the most acclaimed tours of that year, and Mike chose to walk away. It's right up there on the "what could've been" list from the band's entire career.

This.

This was redemption for everyone involved and Mike decided, “nah.”

There's....a lot more to the story than that. The truth is...there's someone else who shares initials with him who's a lot more to blame for that happening.

What an absolute crock. Especially since we've been told for years how Mike is in full control of his career and decisions...now the "truth" is hinting that Mike's decision to walk was the fault of someone else and not Mike? Revisionism 101.

Mike made his decision not to continue with the other guys who wanted to do more as a reunited group. Period.
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« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2019, 09:18:38 AM »

Fine. You obviously have all the facts.
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« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2019, 09:59:53 AM »

Fine. You obviously have all the facts.

The facts have been on the table for years at this point. If people would look at the facts instead of trying to backpedal and spin what actually happened in some attempt to do damage control for Mike or shift blame for Mike's own choice and decision onto others instead of Mike himself, the facts would rise above the spin and BS. Obviously that hasn't happened. The ultimate fact remains that Mike as one of those four people on stage and in studio during C50 who was in the Wilson music room in Hawthorne making music before there was a "Beach Boys" chose to go his own way and the other three original members continued to perform and record together as a group after the last C50 shows.

That was and will always be Mike's decision, and Mike's alone, along with the consequences of that decision. If someone is described as being in "full control" over their decisions and career moves, those decisions have to be owned by the person in full control over making them.
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« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2019, 10:26:48 AM »

Mike's decision not to continue making music and performing with the C50 lineup, latter part of 2012. The band was on fire and in demand for the first time in ages, having scored a top-5 album of original music and one of the most acclaimed tours of that year, and Mike chose to walk away. It's right up there on the "what could've been" list from the band's entire career.

This.

This was redemption for everyone involved and Mike decided, “nah.”

There's....a lot more to the story than that. The truth is...there's someone else who shares initials with him who's a lot more to blame for that happening.

Granted, none of us were there behind the scenes to know the full details. But nobody forced Mike to start booking M&B shows, right?

Even if he didn't like Brian's wife, how does Mike's decision to move on from C50, spin it as "it was only for 50 shows, then extended to 70+ shows!", complain about backlash with venues if he had reneged on M&B offers, etc, rest with anyone but Mike himself? Let's face it - Mike could/can get out of whatever commitments he had well in advance if he reallllly wanted to, if that's the strawgrab that anyone wants to make.If it would have ultimately benefited his mission of gaining more critical/public respect, not losing full control of the band, he'd have found a way to continue C50 in *some* fashion.

And if Mike had gotten heaps of critical praise for HIS lyrical contributions to TWGMTR, to HIS contributions to the C50 live show... if Mike himself got a particularly high level of standing ovations when HE took the stage in C50, and if there were articles stating how Mike was such an important element of the band, it would have placated his ego, and there's no way he would have just walked away from C50.

It seems quite obvious that Mike didn't get what he wanted out of the project songwriting-wise and praise-wise (feeling that way is certainly his prerogative), he didn't like that a well-meaning spouse of his cousin/bandmate was perhaps too demanding/controlling for his tastes (his prerogative again), and he decided to blow the whole thing up and found a creative way to leave Brian, Al, and Dave out in the cold. He pulled that trigger, nobody else. I can be annoyed/pissed at that, but I can also understand why someone would do that. I just don't understand why people want to deny this is the case. Thoughts, 37!ws?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 10:32:56 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2019, 10:38:51 AM »

It didn't have anything to do with liking or not liking anybody - it had to do with an e-mail received that said that Brian was not going to do more dates -- and Brian didn't know about that. By the time Brian found out that it was spoken for on his behalf and told the powers that be that he wanted in, it was too late: the scheduling was already done, the contracts had already been signed.

If this is not true, then please, provide a source.
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« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2019, 10:41:41 AM »

It didn't have anything to do with liking or not liking anybody - it had to do with an e-mail received that said that Brian was not going to do more dates -- and Brian didn't know about that. By the time Brian found out that it was spoken for on his behalf and told the powers that be that he wanted in, it was too late: the scheduling was already done, the contracts had already been signed.

If this is not true, then please, provide a source.

I feel very confident in saying that if this email had never existed, Mike would still have put an end to C50 for the (somewhat understandable, I suppose, even though I deeply disagree with his logic) reasons that I stated in my prior post.

He was deeply dissatisfied for a number of reasons which he has complained about many, many times since then - this email just gave him some sort of "out" or "excuse" the he could deflect blame upon.

Do you really think Mike would not have killed C50 anyway, absent the existence of this email?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 10:42:43 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2019, 11:46:06 AM »

It didn't have anything to do with liking or not liking anybody - it had to do with an e-mail received that said that Brian was not going to do more dates -- and Brian didn't know about that. By the time Brian found out that it was spoken for on his behalf and told the powers that be that he wanted in, it was too late: the scheduling was already done, the contracts had already been signed.

If this is not true, then please, provide a source.

How about getting the context of the email exchange in which that one email has been pulled out and waved endlessly as "proof" for the past 6 years or so? Context, as in what emails may have been sent before and after the one everyone seems to pull out of the bigger exchange?

And what contracts were signed by Mike, exactly? Nutty Jerry's? They cancelled the show after finding out they booked Mike's band and not the C50 lineup. Or was it the gig in South America or wherever it was that never happened either?

Anyway we're walking over the same ground that has been trampled on for 6+ years.

Find the context in which that email appeared. For all the incessant Neville Chamberlain-like waving of one email in everyone's faces, no one seems to want to discuss how that email came to be.
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« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2019, 11:49:34 AM »

And the email doesn't explain why Mike walked away from the chance to record more material with Brian, Al, and David even after the tour when there was talk of recording more music. I guess there is an excuse for that too which absolves Mike of any personal responsibility for his choice to bail out on everything related to the original 4 members getting together to make music?
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« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2019, 12:08:49 PM »

There a dozen reasons or more, hashed out over the last 6-7 years on this board, for why the "no more shows for Wilson" e-mail had nothing to do with the end of the reunion project/tour.

Why is this still having to be hashed out? Do I have to go grab a bunch of old posts/articles/links to make this case *again*?

By Mike's *own* words, *he* made the decision to not continue the reunion. In interviews and in his book, his listed a LITANY of issues he had with the tour from the get-go. In no interview nor in his book has he ever expressed that he *wanted* to continue the reunion and was prevented from doing so by external forces/factors. In Mike's own book, he acknowledges that prior to the end of the tour, Brian WANTED to continue and that he (Mike) did not.

I've laid out tons of interviews between 2012 and 2018, as well as discussion of what's in Mike's book, and I've even broken down the SCANT number of shows Mike booked in 2012 post-C50, and there have been knowledgeable people in the industry who have spoken to how they EASILY could have continued the reunion even *after* Mike started booking those small number of shows for his band. They could have bought off those Mike/Bruce shows, postponed them, canceled them, or re-booked them as "reunion" shows. They even could have DONE those shows and *then* reconvened for more reunion activity.

If Mike had one time expressed any sentiment along the lines of "I *wanted* to continue the reunion, but a one-line e-mail from Brian's camp that was later walked back prevented me from doing so *in perpetuity*", then I'd start to buy the idea that the end of the reunion came at the hand of anybody else.
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« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2019, 12:18:18 PM »

Why is it still being hashed out? Good question - but the answer isn't difficult to find, is it? As I said all the facts have been on the table for years. Yet some seem hell-bent on trying to either rewrite the history of how it happened or else find some way to absolve Mike of any responsibility for his decisions and actions. And for owning his own words too, which again have been on the record for years at this point.

As in many, many, many cases with this band if things turn out positive overall for Mike he takes responsibility for the role he played. If it turns out negative, he ducks and dodges his responsibility and blames others. It's been that way for a long time and probably won't change. All that changes is the scapegoat used to explain whatever situation came up negative.
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« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2019, 01:22:58 PM »

And what contracts were signed by Mike, exactly? Nutty Jerry's?

Nutty Jerry was the real victim in all this. Wink

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« Reply #45 on: May 05, 2019, 05:54:50 AM »

I would argue that a misstep was not permanently enlisting Jan and Dean into the band following the success of Barbara Ann. It seemed like when they worked with Brian that both sides got their biggest hits. In interviews, Jan and Dean lamented the fact that they only had their two voices and wanted to be part of a larger vocal group. Their harmonies with Brian on Surf City added a new dimension on the high end. I also think they could have been mature voices in the band that would help Brian in his fight to change their creative direction to compete with the Beatles.
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« Reply #46 on: May 05, 2019, 06:35:17 AM »

I would argue that a misstep was not permanently enlisting Jan and Dean into the band following the success of Barbara Ann. It seemed like when they worked with Brian that both sides got their biggest hits. In interviews, Jan and Dean lamented the fact that they only had their two voices and wanted to be part of a larger vocal group. Their harmonies with Brian on Surf City added a new dimension on the high end. I also think they could have been mature voices in the band that would help Brian in his fight to change their creative direction to compete with the Beatles.

  Occasional contributions aside, pre-accident Jan Berry was never going to be a Brian Wilson/Beach Boys sideman.
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« Reply #47 on: May 05, 2019, 08:58:10 AM »



If Mike had one time expressed any sentiment along the lines of "I *wanted* to continue the reunion, but a one-line e-mail from Brian's camp that was later walked back prevented me from doing so *in perpetuity*", then I'd start to buy the idea that the end of the reunion came at the hand of anybody else.



Especially for the fact that Mike more or less DID continue the reunion tour, including the video wall, the "50th anniversary" theme, Carl and Dennis singing their songs on videoscreen... just excluding any other Beach Boy (except for Bruce of course and from time to time David). He even got Jeff Foskett
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 10:39:37 AM by Rocker » Logged

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To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

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« Reply #48 on: May 28, 2019, 10:45:18 AM »

After listening to some of the radio performances the Beach Boys did in 2012 and also watching parts of the Japan show on youtube, the disaster of the finally released live album has to be mentioned in this thread if it wasn't already. They even used some of those named performances (which sounded mostly fine as they where) on the album and still messed them up. Talk about blowing a chance. This could've been one of the Beach Boys' best live albums. All in all the records sound like the audio track of a saturday evening TV show in Germany (and that's not a compliment).
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To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

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« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2019, 11:59:28 AM »

Said the same thing myself in page 1.
I still hope someone, some day, will put together a good fan mix of the best of the best from Chiba, BBC2, the (NPR?) plus any other offical audio released that year. We have heard it, but just need someone with the technical know how.
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