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Author Topic: Holy Man Record Store Day  (Read 5742 times)
Jay
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« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2019, 10:18:31 PM »

It's been officially uploaded on YouTube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot4JCJPA3MI

Thanks!

@Jay: Are the backing vocals too much for you?
I'm not really a fan of the bass drum beats, and the way it's kind of re-arranged at the end. I think the extra sound effects are a bit much. The backing vocals are quite pretty, actually.

Edit: But honestly, if they were going to put Beach Boys sounding vocals on it, it might as well have been done by the real deal on TWGMTR.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 10:20:54 PM by Jay » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2019, 11:03:52 PM »

Fucking hell. I couldn't even finish it. Kind of regret paying a premium to get a vinyl copy off a 3rd party.

I cringed so hard when that first round of additional vocals came in. Amd then it got worse!! Not a fan of Queen and their pompus brand of RnR, so maybe that has something to do with it, but damn....

That version on the POB set is incredible. Taylor Hawkins did an amazing lead for an amazing production. This just feels like a bunch of stuff tacked onto a tune that doesn't call for it. They messed with perfection and perfection didn't take it too well.....
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Needleinthehay
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« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2019, 11:06:01 PM »

Thank you for posting the link! I knew it would go up eventually...So thanks for finding and posting it. Wonder how long until its taken down

FWIW, its also available for sale at my local record store and in-stock for 9.99 (they will ship)
https://www.ziarecords.com/p/7076824/dennis-wilson-taylor-hawkins-brian-may-roger-taylor-holy-man-b-w-holy-man-instrumental-150g-vinyl-rsd-2019
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 11:06:37 PM by Needleinthehay » Logged
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« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2019, 02:57:36 AM »

An abomination ...
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« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2019, 03:50:34 AM »

Thanks for the link!

My opinion: At best the new contents add nothing new to the song, at worst it sounds like a half-hearted effort done in a couple of minutes.

And now after hearing it, I am convinced that the additions don't justify a co-writing credit
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« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2019, 06:36:15 AM »

I don't know - it's kind of an odd collaboration between a Beach Boy, a Foo Fighter and Queen.  Not essential listening but I kind of dig that it exists at all.  Annnnnnd you can now purchase it digitally!

https://play.google.com/store/music/album?id=Bt6yecdir7ucpzbi6aneowowtci&tid=song-Ts3iyb3cq3t5yvbxixsoqcoew4e
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« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2019, 07:08:02 AM »

They made a quick little promo video for social media: https://www.facebook.com/16821421682/posts/10157237040596683?sfns=mo
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« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2019, 07:22:58 AM »

In addition to being available to purchase digitally, it is available to stream on Apple Music (and likely Spotify and other services).

I actually really really like it. Dennis was all about harmonies on POB, and this song and it’s added harmonies gives me a convincing look at how Holy Man could have sounded had Denny completed it. Also, the subtle production additions of the celesta and bell give the track more ethereal feel.

Every version of this song that’s been released has something I like about it. Thanks to everyone who made this possible!
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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2019, 08:29:47 AM »

hmmm with the volume down it doesn't sound too bad, but is the production ever brickwalled!  It's horrible on headphones as the mix has everything mixed way up front. always trouble when the backing vocals are the same volume as the leads.  Glad I heard it, glad I didn't spend big $$ on it.  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 08:38:01 AM by doc smiley » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2019, 08:32:29 AM »

Personally, after years of hearing about how awful it was, I was prepared to dislike it intensely. But upon actually hearing it, I kinda like it. Remember, Dennis had intended for the Double Rock Baptist Choir to sing on it, so Taylor's version - simple and beautiful as it is - always felt to me like it was still missing its full potential. Yeah, I know - with Dennis gone, we can't say it could ever be exactly as he intended, but I gotta say, the addition of the "Queen choir" has filled it out and made it closer, I believe, to what he intended. And it doesn't sound "too Queen-like" to me...maybe because Freddy's trademark, distinctive voice is not on it. The guitar solos, however? I could live without them. I think Carl's original solo fits better.

Lastly, I thought folks might enjoy re-reading what Brian May posted on his website back in '08 about the creative process he went through in realizing this version:


"Well, since many people have been asking, and the word seems to be out there ....
I got inspired when Taylor sent me the track in its raw state, with a really soulful vocal from Taylor. It was a song which Dennis Wilson had begun, shortly before he died, but never finished. Beautiful piano playing, wonderful spiritual feel. The producers of the new Dennis Wilson release had asked Taylor Hawkins to sing on the track, and, by instinctive 'feel', finish the song. He had done an amazing job. Taylor had a feeling we could contribute, so he sent me a ProTools session of it. If you were a fan of the Beach Boys, you'll remember Dennis was not known as the principal songwriter, and was regarded by many as just a band member who was carried along. But, of all of the band, it was only Dennis who actually led the life of a surfer, and as time went on, it became obvious that he had a lot to say. He came into his own as a writer, and is now regarded by many as truly at the heart of what the Beach Boys were, and are, in the history of Rock.

So the track arrived, and I was moved ... so much so, that it hadn't even got to the end of the first playing before I was down in the studio, playing along ... inspired. I plunged in, and did a kind of resculpting, about three days work, as perhaps you'll eventually hear - and sent back a rough mix of what I'd done. It involved mapping and singing some backing vocals for the lead vocal to bounce off, building the rhythm track with guitars, and playing a solo. I then extended the song a little, to try to make the point a little stronger, and made an ending which resolved to something very much like the opening of the track - just subtly changed. The whole track spoke to me like a poem, and seemed to be steeped in the spirit of this mysterious man, the Beach Boy Who Surfed. And I wanted to do my bit to realise it to the full. Taylor was hugely enthusiastic, and we then asked Roger to add his magic. Roger loved it too, added his voice to the harmonies, and did some nice percussion, so the whole thing now had a subtle Queen overtone. We all loved the track - and hoped that we would see it on the Dennis album.

Sadly, we then found out that the producers of the album had gone ahead and compiled the album without waiting for us. I think there is some plan to issue it as a download, but obviously, having put so much love into it, we were a little disappointed, Taylor and Roger and me.

But such is life. It was still a nice experience doing it. Those moments are precious, and it's a fact of life that they don't always lead to something commercially successful, or even get heard. It's the moments of creative joy which matter ... and, in a way, this brought us closer to Taylor. And maybe there will yet be a good outcome."


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Emdeeh
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« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2019, 08:35:05 AM »

It's now available on iTunes as well.
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« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2019, 10:04:03 AM »

I had always felt the song was missing harmonies -- or even some doubling here and there. The May-Taylor additions are excellent in that regard.

The extension of the song and addition of an ending? Also great.

The soloing just seems a bit more improvised than I would usually expect from Dr. May, but I also appreciate that it's not buried in the mix like Carl's guitar.

Overall? A solid reconstruction attempt. At this point, I'd just love to hear a full-blown new recording of the song, from the ground up.
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« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2019, 10:53:22 AM »

I don't love it, but I don't hate it. It's ok.

I like the original Taylor Hawkins version better though.

Was Denny a fan of Queen? The only Queen/BBs connection I know of is I remember hearing that Brian was "scared" of Bohemian Rhapsody or something to that effect, as though it was too good.
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« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2019, 11:00:21 AM »

I made some alternate artwork for my digital collection. In case anyone else is interested:

« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 11:08:21 AM by rab2591 » Logged

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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2019, 11:47:55 AM »

I always thought "Bohemian Rhapsody" wouldnt exist without "Good Vibrations" as setting a template for that kind of song with multiple sections, pocket symphony type things, but who knows. Besides that the band seem quite different...although Queen first got popular in 1974 right when the beach boys were huge with endless summer...and then they both had their fortunes in the US fall by the 80s, even though both were still big in the UK
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« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2019, 12:45:10 PM »

I made some alternate artwork for my digital collection. In case anyone else is interested:



Rad, that's better artwork than the actual art!
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rab2591
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« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2019, 02:07:38 PM »

Haha, I felt the original artwork made the Holy Man seem like a product of Area 51, and I've always felt the song was about Jesus Christ. This emulation of the POB artwork fits the song so much better methinks.
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Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site

The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2019, 02:34:58 PM »

Haha, I felt the original artwork made the Holy Man seem like a product of Area 51, and I've always felt the song was about Jesus Christ. This emulation of the POB artwork fits the song so much better methinks.

The only thing that makes me say Jesus Christ about this version of the song is my reaction to Brian May getting a songwriting credit
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rab2591
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« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2019, 02:42:53 PM »

 LOL
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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2019, 01:02:05 AM »

Was it mentioned at one point that Dennis liked the Queen song "you take my breath away" or was that a title mixup with something else?

edit:

ah yes. this was it - http://www.surfermoon.com/boots/cocaine.shtml
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 01:04:37 AM by Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll » Logged

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« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2019, 02:03:39 AM »

Haha, I felt the original artwork made the Holy Man seem like a product of Area 51, and I've always felt the song was about Jesus Christ. This emulation of the POB artwork fits the song so much better methinks.

The only thing that makes me say Jesus Christ about this version of the song is my reaction to Brian May getting a songwriting credit


 Grin


I don't think it's necessarily about Jesus Christ, but it is also not not about him. I guess the idea is the concept of a - as the title says - holy man, the manifestation of God's love. So, yeah, that could be Christ (especially if you look at the picture of him as shown in the Gospel of John and the letters of John) but it could also be influenced by the New Age movement and have nothing to do with Jesus. IIRC Dennis had the idea for the songtitle after meeting Maharishi according to Gregg Jakobson (at least that's how I remember, maybe that interview is on the P.O.B. podcast from Sony/Legacy). And I wouldn't be surprised if Dennis and Jakobson kinda mixed everything without worrying about theological reasons or what consequences this would have if you'd looked at it from a theological point.
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
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« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2019, 03:59:30 AM »

Haha, I felt the original artwork made the Holy Man seem like a product of Area 51, and I've always felt the song was about Jesus Christ. This emulation of the POB artwork fits the song so much better methinks.

The only thing that makes me say Jesus Christ about this version of the song is my reaction to Brian May getting a songwriting credit


 Grin


I don't think it's necessarily about Jesus Christ, but it is also not not about him. I guess the idea is the concept of a - as the title says - holy man, the manifestation of God's love. So, yeah, that could be Christ (especially if you look at the picture of him as shown in the Gospel of John and the letters of John) but it could also be influenced by the New Age movement and have nothing to do with Jesus. IIRC Dennis had the idea for the songtitle after meeting Maharishi according to Gregg Jakobson (at least that's how I remember, maybe that interview is on the P.O.B. podcast from Sony/Legacy). And I wouldn't be surprised if Dennis and Jakobson kinda mixed everything without worrying about theological reasons or what consequences this would have if you'd looked at it from a theological point.

Thanks for the info! I actually don't know if I'd have my opinion about 'Holy Man' if Jesus wasn't directly mentioned twice in POB...And in those specific contexts, Jesus is opening the person's heart and is in his soul. So with that context, the lyrics of 'Holy Man' make sense to me as a song about Jesus. That being said, the lyrics are open ended and thus perhaps not specifically about any one in particular. So I can see your perspective of the song too.
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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2019, 08:40:32 AM »

Finally heard the new cut.  I'm going to be polite and just say that it is not to my liking.

Give me the original Taylor vox version or the instrumental, thank you very much.  I find both of them to be lovely and moving.
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« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2019, 01:23:50 PM »

The clockwork cycle the release of a previously unheard track goes in the Beach Boys world of fandom:

1. Gush over a song that will be released soon because it already has a mythical, legendary status.
2. Exclaim how "I can't wait!!!" a few days before release.
3. Stampede to be the first to get a copy.
4. Lament the fact that you are one of the ones who can't get it and promise to be the best friend of whoever uploads it for you.
5. Finally get a copy and almost orgasm prior to even play the song.
6. Bag the merda out of the song because it doesn't live up to the hype you yourself created - strangely enough you also forget how you have been demanding this released for the last 10 years.
7. Repeat cycle for the next previously unheard song release.

More precise than an atomic clock.
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« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2019, 03:32:37 PM »

The clockwork cycle the release of a previously unheard track goes in the Beach Boys world of fandom:

1. Gush over a song that will be released soon because it already has a mythical, legendary status.
2. Exclaim how "I can't wait!!!" a few days before release.
3. Stampede to be the first to get a copy.
4. Lament the fact that you are one of the ones who can't get it and promise to be the best friend of whoever uploads it for you.
5. Finally get a copy and almost orgasm prior to even play the song.
6. Bag the merda out of the song because it doesn't live up to the hype you yourself created - strangely enough you also forget how you have been demanding this released for the last 10 years.
7. Repeat cycle for the next previously unheard song release.

More precise than an atomic clock.
Eh, I don't know.  I'm a citizen of the world of Beach Boys fandom, and I never bagged on, say, "(Wouldn't it be Nice to) Live Again."  (Or in other, non-BB instances, something like Nirvana's "You Know You're Right" or the Threetles' take on "Free as a Bird"/"Real Love."  I was agog over the thought of hearing them.  And in their own way, each lived up to (or exceeded) my expectations.   Smiley

Speaking for myself, I always thought the instrumental and Hawkins versions were beautiful (and what I'd give for a Dennis sung version!).  But I can't say that was ever pining to hear the "Queen version."  It just didn't sound like an ideal match of artists to me.

That said I was certainly curious.  And why wouldn't I be?  It's an unheard version of a number I quite enjoy, written by an artist I really, really like.

I simply didn't care for what the new version added to (and subtracted from) the previous work.
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