John Lennon 'Mike Love is a jerk'

[MBE]

Doesn't mean he was a racist because he thought certain black singers were unattractive. I asked Fred Vail and Ed Roach if Dennis was a racist and they said it was bull. His closeness to Ricky and Blondie should quiet all doubters. Gaines is the only one who said Denny didn't like blacks.

[Daniel S.]

Gaines also says that Dennis had a recurring fantasy about being raped by black man in jail. I'm not joking and it really is in the 'Heroes And Villains' book, so the moderators should not be mad at me.

[Daniel S.]

He lost my respect becvause he damn well knows his conflicts with Brian helped kill Smile as much as anything with Mike. Mike has ALWAYS said nice things about Parks. So what if they had a disagreement in 1966 let it go.  I think Mike has done some dumb things but I consider Van Dyke to be someone who is vindictive and he let Brian down by not toughing it out with him. 

I agree. But I guess also, that Mike never liked rival lyricists.

[MBE]

No I am sure Mike didn't like other people writing with Brian. In my eyes he had a right to ask about lyrics. I am not saying he was always cool about it, but the guy has a right to know what he is singing about. Frankly he Love worked as hard on Pet Sounds and Smile as any of the others besides Brian. If Mike had so much power over lyrics and keeping things "straight"  Smiley would have never come out. Cabinessence would have never come out etc. Van Dyke was briliant but I understand why it would be an adjustment going from even Tony Asher to him.

[Smilin Ed H]

Dennis was a huge Marvin Gaye fan, wasn't he?  Caroused with Billy Preston?  Worked with Blondie and Rickie?

[b.dfzo]

bump

[Surfer Joe]

So some of Dennis' best friends were black. No offense to anyone, but this sounds like a discussion that would have been edgy about thirty years ago. If Stephen Gaines is the lead witness against Dennis, I'd let it go to the jury without a rebuttal.

I hate to see this sort of discussion where Mike has to get bashed by one group and then Van Dyke has to get bashed by the other. I'll buy either one of 'em all the beer they want, any time.

[Jonas]

said like a champ, surfer joe.

[jabba2]

There is the American Band footage where Paul is looking strangely over at Mike while Mike sits down in Carls lap, and is later handfed by a woman which probably made everyone nervous.

[Lorenschwartz]

isnt there a john lennon interview out somewhere that says he didnt recognize meeting Dennis in a bar?

Denny introduced himself & lennon thought he was a mechanic or something? help me

[Rocker]

isnt there a john lennon interview out somewhere that says he didnt recognize meeting Dennis in a bar?

Denny introduced himself & lennon thought he was a mechanic or something? help me

I think Lennon believed Dennis was the owner of some clothes-shop that was also in town and was owned by some Wilson. I believe he said to Dennis "I like your clothes" or something and Dennis just went outside

[Lorenschwartz]

isnt there a john lennon interview out somewhere that says he didnt recognize meeting Dennis in a bar?

Denny introduced himself & lennon thought he was a mechanic or something? help me

I think Lennon believed Dennis was the owner of some clothes-shop that was also in town and was owned by some Wilson. I believe he said to Dennis "I like your clothes" or something and Dennis just went outside

That's it! thanks

[SMiLEY]

Lennon could be a "jerk" too, but I don't think he felt that way. I have read two books on the Beatles in India and Mike comes off fairly well in both. Paul has never said a harsh world about Love. Van Dyke is someone who I used to consider a gentleman. The 2000 movie does not make Van Dyke look bad at all to me. I thought his character was one of the few really good parts. Very funny and witty. I don't like the 2000 movie much but Parks came out ok. His interviews after the movie and after Mike's Mojo interview sounded like bitter ramblings. He lost my respect becvause he damn well knows his conflicts with Brian helped kill Smile as much as anything with Mike. Mike has ALWAYS said nice things about Parks. So what if they had a disagreement in 1966 let it go. Van Dyke played on Kokomo and SIP so he must have had some kind of rapport with Mike at one point. I think Mike has done some dumb things but I consider Van Dyke to be someone who is vindictive and he let Brian down by not toughing it out with him.  Mike didn't write the damn movie either and in fact said outright that a few elements bothered him. Van Dyke is very talented, so is Love, but without Brian getting them where they are would they have made it on their own.

Van Dyke was upset by how Brian was depicted in the tvmovie. His relationship with Mike went south (again) after the SIP sessions, when Mike again criticized the 'over an over' lyric in a rather hostile manner. Van Dyke is hard on himself for not toughing it out with Brian on Smile, Mike has never changed his tune about Smile or anything for that matter. And he has said LOTS of dumb things. Van would have had a fine career in music without Brian, Mike wouldn't have.

Just getting the fact's straight.

[Cam Mott]

Just getting the fact's straight.

You mean opinions don't you?

[MBE]

Smiley Van Dyke and Mike come from two different ends of the musical spectrum. I don't agree with you though. Mike and Van Dyke BOTH don't do much for me outside of their work with Brian. With Brian I enjoy them quite a bit. The remark made at sessions was lighthearted. I think he got mad at Love for welching on a plane rental.  I still don't think Parks should be so petty even if Mike was or is.

[MusicLover1970]

Van Dyke is in interesting company on the forthcoming Joanna Newsom album Ys (Drag City). The Guardian's description:

A glance at the support personnel involved is enough to make you spill your mead. Brian Wilson's lieutenant Van Dyke Parks did the stark string arrangements over a period of eight months. Cantankerous analogue producer Steve Albini (Nirvana) recorded it. Experimental guru Jim O'Rourke mixed it. Most jaw-dropping of all is Newsom herself, a fearless original. She wields a harp (as she did on her debut) and a poetic menagerie of animals, meteors, fear and joy. Marimbas and horse skulls flesh out the harp, vocals and strings on these five long tracks; her creepy boyfriend Bill Callahan (Smog) chips in with backing vocals. Newsom's eccentric child-witch delivery has been tempered somewhat since her debut but remains unmistakable; her dense, storytelling lyrics faintly recall Patti Smith's surging poetry, in texture if not in vocabulary. With weird folk and neo-medievalism all the rage in arty circles, Newsom has decisively outclassed all comers on one of the albums of the year.

The tracks I've heard sounds amazing. Van Dyke is still doing great work.

[Rockard]

Hmm, I think this deserves a new thread somewhere. I awaited this album since last year, and the news about van dykes involvment was some sort of dream collaboration come true. I have, as lots of other fans, already got hold of the leaked album, and will buy it on double lp when it is released in november (recorded totally analogue, mixed at abbey road). It is amazing. Van dyke parks arrangements filled out the songs perfectly.

[MusicLover1970]

Hmm, I think this deserves a new thread somewhere.

Your right, sorry.

I was just trying to remind people that there's more to Van Dyke than bad vibes and bitterness towards Mr Love. Parks is still doing great work and has contributed to one of the most interesting and rewarding albums of 2006.

[MBE]

Anything involving vinyl get my approval.

I am not trying to put down Parks in other areas. He and Brian are "wonderful" together. I just think going out of your way to complain about something is not right. People will say that hey Milke and Al, and Brian etc. have done this too. Well that is true to a point, but I never heard them devoting a whole interview or writing a letter to an editor to make someone look foolish.

[Third Coast]

Mike has never changed his tune about Smile or anything for that matter.

Was it the MOJO interview where Mike said he now wished SMiLE had come out...and that whatever SMiLE was supposed to be, it was a lot better than Smiley Smile?

[SMiLEY]

Smiley Van Dyke and Mike come from two different ends of the musical spectrum. I don't agree with you though. Mike and Van Dyke BOTH don't do much for me outside of their work with Brian. With Brian I enjoy them quite a bit. The remark made at sessions was lighthearted. I think he got mad at Love for welching on a plane rental.  I still don't think Parks should be so petty even if Mike was or is.

Well then, never read Peter Ames Carlin's new book or you'll read a whole raft of others talking down Mike a lot worse than Van ever did. For instance Stan Love, who is surprisingly harsh about Mike.

As to their musical merits, if Van had only done his first record and nothing else, he still would be leagues ahead of Mike's solo output. Let's not forget his work with Randy Newman, Phil Ochs, his soundtracks, his incredible Orange Crate Art (one of my favorites), his vast accomplishments as an arranger, and how about a little group called Little Feat that he produced!!!?

As lyricists they both are good, but very different. Mike IS a good lyricist, but I prefer that good old 'acid alliteration' over boy-girl any day of the week. Beyond that, Mike (or anybody to be fair) could only hope for a fraction of Van's talent.

Another thing -- Van's angry comments about Mike are nothing compared to Brian's, or Al's, but I would hardly call them petty. He feels, rightly or wrongly, that Mike drove SMiLE off course and ultimately helped sink it. I'm not trying to restart THE THREAD, but those are his feelings and he is entitled to them.

[Dancing Bear]

99% of Parks' fame comes from the lyrics he wrote for an unreleased Beach Boys album when he was 23. Now that he's 63 and his solo career is basically dead we can't blame him for being petty and cranky. 

[Surfer Joe]

Whatever part of Van Dyke's fame (fame: genuflect when you say that) comes from his lyrics for SMiLE is well justified, in my opinion.  He wrote some of the best, most original, most innovative lyrics in pop music history.  I'm not usually a huge lyrics guy, but his work is pretty close to half the show on SMiLE for me.

I think a pretty big chunk of Mike's fame also comes from his work with Brian, and is equally well-justified, in my opinion.

If there's a cut-off for Van Dyke to have his own views on his experiences, and he's past that cut-off because he's not on the charts right now- accepting that premise- whose views and memories should he be assigned?  Maybe the group of us on this board should get to decide what he says, thinks, and remembers.

[MBE]

The point I was making is that I thought it was odd for Van Dyke to go out of his way to make his comments by writing a letter and doing an article JUST to bash Mike. Sure the others did it worse at times, he has a right to say his side, but the way he did it seems  petty. I like the Carlin book because Mike has his side aired, Stan and everyone else did it in context. The movie like I said to me didn't make Van Dyke look all that bad. Mike did not write the movie. Mike said he was uncomfortable with parts of the movie. Mike did promote the movie and consult, but Brian was involved with the film too, to the point where he recorded new demos for it.  Mike talked very kindly about Van Dyke in his Mojo interview. Mike has made no secret about his reservations about the lyrics which Mike did back down and sing. Mike has done many things that I think are bone headed. Mike has been a jerk at times in my eyes. I just don't think Van Dyke should attack Mike for his personal viewpoint. If Mike had said "that jerk Parks got Brian hooked", then Van Dyke had a right. I just think Parks has shown himself to be better then that and it really changed my view of him.

[Dancing Bear]

If there's a cut-off for Van Dyke to have his own views on his experiences, and he's past that cut-off because he's not on the charts right now- accepting that premise- whose views and memories should he be assigned?  Maybe the group of us on this board should get to decide what he says, thinks, and remembers.

Van Dyke can say whatever he wants, more power to him. However, I can also say that he's petty. 

But it's just my opinion. Brian Wilson never told me that Van Dyke's petty, back in the early eighties.