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Author Topic: Mike working on yet another new album  (Read 16160 times)
HeyJude
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« Reply #125 on: May 30, 2019, 01:24:12 PM »

Some guy named Jorah posted this on that other board. A boardie over there thought it was by HeyJude under a pseudonym (which I definitely took as a compliment). But anyways, I've been permission to repost by Mr. Mormont. So I figured I'd throw his thoughts in here if anybody cares...

I don't post on the "Endless Harmony" board and never have. I read it sometimes. But I don't post on that or any other BB board under pseudonyms or otherwise. I've been on the BB interwebs for coming up on 25 years and haven't thus far been dragged into *that* particular accusation.

I've reached out to someone via e-mail on the other board and asked them to let that poster on that board and any other needed parties over there know that whoever that is on the EH board, it isn't me. If anyone here could also help me let folks on that board know, that would be much appreciated.

Trust me, nobody wants to drag me into this sort of BS. Bad idea.

Golly HJ, I think you took that a bit too seriously. Obviously it was myself posing as Jorah on that board and I outed myself as that poster on that board.

I was simply paying you a compliment by saying that somebody thought that I was you. I suppose from now on I will no longer try to good naturedly engage you. My apologies, seriously. Did not want to drag anybody into anything.  Undecided

If you're not the person who implied I was posting over there, then I have no problem with you!

My issue was with whomever offhandedly asserted I was posting over there under a pseudonym.
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« Reply #126 on: May 30, 2019, 01:30:03 PM »

Article on "Rockaway Beach." Spoiler alert: Those who attend shows be on notice, it looks like you're going to get "Rockaway Beach" in Mike's setlist!

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/8513671/the-beach-boys-mike-love-ramones-rockaway-beach-cover
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #127 on: May 30, 2019, 01:43:42 PM »

Article on "Rockaway Beach." Spoiler alert: Those who attend shows be on notice, it looks like you're going to get "Rockaway Beach" in Mike's setlist!

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/8513671/the-beach-boys-mike-love-ramones-rockaway-beach-cover

Mike Love wearing a Mike Love hat. I know that is nothing new, but to see it plastered in a huge pic in a Billboard article, it's just so... weirdly hilarious  LOL  "HEY GUYS, I AM MIKE LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE.... DID YOU HEAR? MIKE LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE"



Also... when reading this article, it is also so weird how it talks about Mike Love having a new solo (cover) song recording, but then goes straight into talking about him performing it live as The Beach Boys. It's just brand confusion central.

I can think of no parallel (either a famous person constantly wearing a hat with their name on it) or a "solo artist" weirdly releasing all their songs under one label, then marketing them live under a different label, and a major publication talking about this as though this is a normal situation.

It's just the weirdest stuff. Nothing new, of course. Just every now and then we're reminded of the weirdness of this band and the weirdness of Mike Love's hats.

I'll admit, as a marketing angle, "The Beach Boys" being associated with a Ramones cover is kind of cool on paper.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 01:49:49 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
HeyJude
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« Reply #128 on: May 30, 2019, 02:06:51 PM »

Well, I was going to point out that they're clearly just re-using the art from his 2017 single when the new "Mike Love" hat first started to appear:



But then I forgot the horseshoe mustache came later, plus he's wearing a different shirt. So yeah, this other photo is newer and he's still sporting the Mike Love hat. Which I suppose is preferable to cases where he's worn "Beach Boys" regalia while doing solo stuff:






« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 02:09:42 PM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #129 on: May 30, 2019, 02:30:05 PM »

Well, I was going to point out that they're clearly just re-using the art from his 2017 single when the new "Mike Love" hat first started to appear:



But then I forgot the horseshoe mustache came later, plus he's wearing a different shirt. So yeah, this other photo is newer and he's still sporting the Mike Love hat. Which I suppose is preferable to cases where he's worn "Beach Boys" regalia while doing solo stuff:








I didn't realize there were all those instances (probably many more) of Mike promoting solo product while wearing a BBs' logo hat. I suppose some fan needs to file a class action lawsuit for the resultant brand confusion. Is the statute of limitations expired from the early '80s?  LOL  I still can't get over the fake "wronged fan" from Mike's 2005 lawsuit who turned out to be a plant by Mike's lawyer. Honestly, if we are to talk most laughable maneuvers in the history of this band, one would be hard-pressed to top that. How did that even come to surface?
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Jim V.
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« Reply #130 on: May 30, 2019, 03:30:46 PM »

Maybe it got lost or nobody cares, but doesn't anybody else kinda find it lame that Mike is covering a song (and probably band) that he has never heard/heard of? Maybe I'm being too hard on him, but I don't know.

And yes, it's the same feeling I had about Brian working with Lana Del Rey (like....why? Whats the point?)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 03:58:30 PM by Jim V. » Logged
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« Reply #131 on: May 30, 2019, 06:00:21 PM »

Maybe it got lost or nobody cares, but doesn't anybody else kinda find it lame that Mike is covering a song (and probably band) that he has never heard/heard of? Maybe I'm being too hard on him, but I don't know.

And yes, it's the same feeling I had about Brian working with Lana Del Rey (like....why? Whats the point?)

The Ramones are a massive band. They're essentially a brand. They started 45 years ago, when Mike was 33. They covered The Beach Boys, worked with Phil Spector. They're one of the most recognizable American bands. There's no possible way Mike hasn't heard of them nor heard I Wanna Be Sedated or Blitzkrieg Bop. They're also a band that borrowed enough elements of early rock and roll that Mike very well could be into them, or at least certain songs.

It's not like Mike is covering The Descendents. The Ramones are a very well known band.

With that out of the way, there's really no reason for this cover to exist, but it's fine.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #132 on: May 30, 2019, 06:46:10 PM »

Maybe it got lost or nobody cares, but doesn't anybody else kinda find it lame that Mike is covering a song (and probably band) that he has never heard/heard of? Maybe I'm being too hard on him, but I don't know.

And yes, it's the same feeling I had about Brian working with Lana Del Rey (like....why? Whats the point?)

The Ramones are a massive band. They're essentially a brand. They started 45 years ago, when Mike was 33. They covered The Beach Boys, worked with Phil Spector. They're one of the most recognizable American bands. There's no possible way Mike hasn't heard of them nor heard I Wanna Be Sedated or Blitzkrieg Bop. They're also a band that borrowed enough elements of early rock and roll that Mike very well could be into them, or at least certain songs.

It's not like Mike is covering The Descendents. The Ramones are a very well known band.

With that out of the way, there's really no reason for this cover to exist, but it's fine.

 I tend to agree. Especially considering how popular a band The Ramones were, and they were specifically very influenced by The Beach Boys, and not just any era of that band, but the era that Mike considers the golden era where he was "king"… It would stand to reason that he would be familiar with them at least on some level.

But then again, who knows.
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Jim V.
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« Reply #133 on: May 30, 2019, 10:50:20 PM »

Maybe it got lost or nobody cares, but doesn't anybody else kinda find it lame that Mike is covering a song (and probably band) that he has never heard/heard of? Maybe I'm being too hard on him, but I don't know.

And yes, it's the same feeling I had about Brian working with Lana Del Rey (like....why? Whats the point?)

The Ramones are a massive band. They're essentially a brand. They started 45 years ago, when Mike was 33. They covered The Beach Boys, worked with Phil Spector. They're one of the most recognizable American bands. There's no possible way Mike hasn't heard of them nor heard I Wanna Be Sedated or Blitzkrieg Bop. They're also a band that borrowed enough elements of early rock and roll that Mike very well could be into them, or at least certain songs.

It's not like Mike is covering The Descendents. The Ramones are a very well known band.

With that out of the way, there's really no reason for this cover to exist, but it's fine.

Hey startBBtoday, I totally understand what you are saying. I agree that pretty much everybody at least probably in American and Britain probably know at least one, two or even three Ramones songs. They are a brand. You can probably buy their tee-shirt at Wal Mart or Target. But still, these are The Beach Boys we are talking about. And I can definitely imagine a world where both Brian Wilson and Mike Love have no fucking clue who the Ramones are, or maybe at best have only heard of them, but couldn't name a song. Perhaps I'm selling them short though, and it's more than possible you're right.

I still stand by the fact though that Mike probably had never heard of "Rockaway Beach" until somebody recently played it for him though.
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Lonely Summer
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« Reply #134 on: May 30, 2019, 11:23:22 PM »

I bought Unleash the Love, enjoyed it, was glad to see Mike finally get some of his own music released. I'm much less interested in an album of covers. I've got nothing against him doing it, but I probably won't buy the new album.
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« Reply #135 on: May 31, 2019, 01:26:31 AM »

Maybe it got lost or nobody cares, but doesn't anybody else kinda find it lame that Mike is covering a song (and probably band) that he has never heard/heard of? Maybe I'm being too hard on him, but I don't know.

And yes, it's the same feeling I had about Brian working with Lana Del Rey (like....why? Whats the point?)

The Ramones are a massive band. They're essentially a brand. They started 45 years ago, when Mike was 33. They covered The Beach Boys, worked with Phil Spector. They're one of the most recognizable American bands. There's no possible way Mike hasn't heard of them nor heard I Wanna Be Sedated or Blitzkrieg Bop. They're also a band that borrowed enough elements of early rock and roll that Mike very well could be into them, or at least certain songs.

It's not like Mike is covering The Descendents. The Ramones are a very well known band.

With that out of the way, there's really no reason for this cover to exist, but it's fine.

I have never felt more animosity for Mike, and just as importantly, his band and producers (outside of Cowsill's mostly noble attempt), who have totally castrated a sacred bull.

I would much, much rather have seen him attempt a Descendents cover in his style, lol.  Honestly, a move like that probably would have been surprisingly good for his career too.
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HeyJude
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« Reply #136 on: May 31, 2019, 07:01:44 AM »

It's interesting that Mike hasn't sought out a Terry Melcher-type collaborator to continue to write new material that much. Yes, there are a few actual originals (or newly polished-off songs) on the recent albums. But beyond the glut of cover versions and BB re-recordings, most of the "originals" on the albums have been songs written decades ago.

One would have thought that Mike's continual stated desire to "write songs from scratch" alone in a room with Brian would have sprung at least in part by a desire to write new music in general. Yet, we don't see him seeking out alternate avenues to write a ton of material with other writers (at least in terms of what's released). It tends to reinforce the feeling some fans have that Mike's "alone in a room" thing with Brian had more to do with taking issue with *others* writing with Brian and getting writing credits/royalties.

It's interesting to break down the tracks across these recent three Mike albums. There are a total of 49 tracks across these three albums. Of the 49 tracks:

- 33 are cover versions of songs previously released (including BB songs, standards, etc.)
     - Within this category approximately 24 are covers of songs Mike has already released as part of the BBs or solo
- 8 are re-recordings of unreleased songs known to have been written and recorded years ago
- 3 are previously released tracks more or less unchanged (Cool Head, Pisces Brothers, Alone on Christmas Day)
- 5 are as-yet-unheard-of originals

This is not an exact science; there is some overlap in these categories. I'm not counting the "It's OK" remake as previously released, even though it was aired a year ago. I'm assuming on those five seemingly "new" compositions; for instance, "All the Love in Paris" is a co-write with his old collaborator Paul Fauerso, so it could actually be older as well. Also, one of those "originals" isn't a Mike co-write.
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« Reply #137 on: May 31, 2019, 08:26:19 AM »

It's interesting that Mike hasn't sought out a Terry Melcher-type collaborator to continue to write new material that much. Yes, there are a few actual originals (or newly polished-off songs) on the recent albums. But beyond the glut of cover versions and BB re-recordings, most of the "originals" on the albums have been songs written decades ago.

One would have thought that Mike's continual stated desire to "write songs from scratch" alone in a room with Brian would have sprung at least in part by a desire to write new music in general. Yet, we don't see him seeking out alternate avenues to write a ton of material with other writers (at least in terms of what's released). It tends to reinforce the feeling some fans have that Mike's "alone in a room" thing with Brian had more to do with taking issue with *others* writing with Brian and getting writing credits/royalties.

Agreed that it's a shame that now that he is finally putting out new albums that he either hasn't written new material to put on them, or at least taken older unreleased stuff and reworked it for this new one. Whatever we wanna say about Unleash The Love, at least he was finally getting some of his his own better material finally out there on his own album ("Cool Head", "Daybreak" in an arrangement more like the First Love version, "Too Cruel" and "I Don't Wanna Know"). One would think that he has more unreleased (or at least super rare) material that is work another look, but perhaps not, and that's why we end up with one "new" original that is around 40 years old ("California Beach") and a bunch of covers and re-records (and even some re-recorded covers apparently).
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HeyJude
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« Reply #138 on: May 31, 2019, 08:36:02 AM »

I can only guess, in part, Mike doing mostly covers is an outgrowth of his evident preference when it comes to music in general. He tours all year playing a group of mostly the same songs, and  has not done comparatively a lot of studio recording (and has stated in interviews he prefers live shows to studio work, which he has said he finds tedious), certainly once he hit the 80s and 90s and on.

The more labor intensive things to do would, arguably, be writing/creating new music and then recording it. For whatever reason, whether continual advances from the record label or something else, he has released more music in the last few years. But he has skipped the labor intensive writing of new songs, and is doing mostly covers and then digging out ancient unreleased material dating back to the 70s. In some cases, he's literally dusting off old recordings (e.g. "Cool Head") and just sticking them on albums.
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« Reply #139 on: May 31, 2019, 09:20:35 AM »

In some cases, he's literally dusting off old recordings (e.g. "Cool Head") and just sticking them on albums.

In the case of "Cool Head" I will say it's one case of Mike getting it right. He got a good recording of it, which is probably his best "solo" song in like 2003, and released it on The Beach Boys' Songs from Here & Back in '06 and instead of screwing it up over a decade later, like he did with some of the other material from around that time, he left well enough alone.
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« Reply #140 on: May 31, 2019, 02:18:33 PM »

In some cases, he's literally dusting off old recordings (e.g. "Cool Head") and just sticking them on albums.

In the case of "Cool Head" I will say it's one case of Mike getting it right. He got a good recording of it, which is probably his best "solo" song in like 2003, and released it on The Beach Boys' Songs from Here & Back in '06 and instead of screwing it up over a decade later, like he did with some of the other material from around that time, he left well enough alone.

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« Reply #141 on: May 31, 2019, 02:38:25 PM »

It's interesting that Mike hasn't sought out a Terry Melcher-type collaborator to continue to write new material that much. Yes, there are a few actual originals (or newly polished-off songs) on the recent albums. But beyond the glut of cover versions and BB re-recordings, most of the "originals" on the albums have been songs written decades ago.

One would have thought that Mike's continual stated desire to "write songs from scratch" alone in a room with Brian would have sprung at least in part by a desire to write new music in general. Yet, we don't see him seeking out alternate avenues to write a ton of material with other writers (at least in terms of what's released). It tends to reinforce the feeling some fans have that Mike's "alone in a room" thing with Brian had more to do with taking issue with *others* writing with Brian and getting writing credits/royalties.

It's interesting to break down the tracks across these recent three Mike albums. There are a total of 49 tracks across these three albums. Of the 49 tracks:

- 33 are cover versions of songs previously released (including BB songs, standards, etc.)
     - Within this category approximately 24 are covers of songs Mike has already released as part of the BBs or solo
- 8 are re-recordings of unreleased songs known to have been written and recorded years ago
- 3 are previously released tracks more or less unchanged (Cool Head, Pisces Brothers, Alone on Christmas Day)
- 5 are as-yet-unheard-of originals

This is not an exact science; there is some overlap in these categories. I'm not counting the "It's OK" remake as previously released, even though it was aired a year ago. I'm assuming on those five seemingly "new" compositions; for instance, "All the Love in Paris" is a co-write with his old collaborator Paul Fauerso, so it could actually be older as well. Also, one of those "originals" isn't a Mike co-write.

Which original is not a Mike co-write?
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #142 on: May 31, 2019, 02:57:42 PM »

The internet would explode if Mike re-recorded Rockin' The Man in the Boat.
I think he should do it.
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« Reply #143 on: May 31, 2019, 04:33:51 PM »

Not that it matters, but the Mike Love logo on the hats are just photoshopped on there in both promo shots. Poorly, too.
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« Reply #144 on: May 31, 2019, 05:17:05 PM »

Not that it matters, but the Mike Love logo on the hats are just photoshopped on there in both promo shots. Poorly, too.

I didn't notice that, maybe my Photoshop eye skills aren't as attuned as my Autotune detection skills  LOL  If this is true, I wonder if it was a BBs hat logo that didn't pass legal muster and had to be replaced with a ML logo? But in my opinion, I think it's a non-Photoshopped actual ML hat worn by ML.
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« Reply #145 on: May 31, 2019, 06:43:48 PM »

 I'll say this much… While Mike's cover might not be particularly great, it has led me down a Ramones wormhole which I am grateful for. I quite dig their music and I hadn't listened to them for quite some time. That album they did with Phil Spector was pretty cool. Unbelievable how influenced they were by this band.
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« Reply #146 on: May 31, 2019, 08:06:30 PM »

Unleash the Love was Mike's artistic statement. I consider most of those songs new, since the majority hadn't been released before. He said what he had to say in those songs, and doesn't really have anything to add to that statement; hence, the remakes and covers. Either way, I have no problem with it. I don't see either Brian or Al (or Bruce!) rushing into a studio to do ..well, anything these days!
I guess my problem is, I don't hate Mike Love. I may not have always agreed with decisions he's made, statements he's made, but he hasn't murdered my children or raped my wife.
I save my hatred for the real scum in the world.
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« Reply #147 on: June 01, 2019, 03:32:57 AM »

The internet would explode if Mike re-recorded Rockin' The Man in the Boat.
I think he should do it.

Hahaha, it is not creepy enough as it is?  - Mike's weak, shaky old man voice would really take it to the next level though.
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« Reply #148 on: June 01, 2019, 07:02:27 PM »

Well, it would have been too much to ask for Mike to cover "Blitzkrieg Bop," now, wouldn't it?  Cool Guy

One thing GF overlooks in his comparison of early BBs and the Ramones is the massively greater emphasis on melody and phrasing that accompanies even the most stripped-down of early BBs rockers. And that was part of the greatness of the early songs--Mike's singing is much more dimensional that any of the songs that became "anthemic" for the Ramones. "Rockaway Beach" doesn't have much melody to work with, so there is little that Mike can put into it--it has to cleave closely to the blueprint of the original. The backing harmonies are paint-by-numbers--not even any room for modulation as in "I Get Around."

I mean, if he wants a punk-rock song in the set, what's wrong with "Roller Skating Child" (aside from the lyrics in the age of me-too, that is)??  police
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« Reply #149 on: June 03, 2019, 09:58:37 AM »

Well, it would have been too much to ask for Mike to cover "Blitzkrieg Bop," now, wouldn't it?  Cool Guy

One thing GF overlooks in his comparison of early BBs and the Ramones is the massively greater emphasis on melody and phrasing that accompanies even the most stripped-down of early BBs rockers. And that was part of the greatness of the early songs--Mike's singing is much more dimensional that any of the songs that became "anthemic" for the Ramones. "Rockaway Beach" doesn't have much melody to work with, so there is little that Mike can put into it--it has to cleave closely to the blueprint of the original. The backing harmonies are paint-by-numbers--not even any room for modulation as in "I Get Around."

I mean, if he wants a punk-rock song in the set, what's wrong with "Roller Skating Child" (aside from the lyrics in the age of me-too, that is)??  police

I didn't overlook that aspect as much as I ran out of time (and space/interest) to expand on it!  Grin

The thing with The Ramones is - call it a bottom line if it fits - they started making music that sounds like it did because they would turn on the radio and not hear those early 60's style songs and sounds that they loved, so they decided to make a band and do it themselves. That element of the band's entire foundation was what won me over. Forget what happened as they became big and had T-shirts, movies, etc...they started making music together because they weren't hearing that music which they loved on the radio.

It was also an almost direct reaction to what had become overblown and pompous progressive rock, singer-songwriter type material that started to get more and more "safe" as the early 70's went forward, and a general sense that rock music may be forgetting that joyous feeling I mentioned earlier of strumming an A power chord at full volume and having something melodic on top. And lyrics that did not have to mention knights, hobbits, and fucking mysticism and wizards or other similar topics in order to get released.

I think the Ramones basically went back to 1961-63 and stripped it down even more to the bare bones essentials, along with a turbo-charge to the tempo overall, and began to rock out on their terms.

Regarding the vocal phrasing and harmonies and all that: The Ramones live were Joey on all the leads and little interjections from Dee Dee. That's it, the other two Ramones didn't sing. Listen to the earlier live recordings of Rockaway Beach, Dee Dee barely sings anything as a backing vocalist, surely no harmony.

But that lines up with the stripped down ethos which the Ramones lived by. It worked. The energy or focus was not solely in the melody or lead vocal, it was the overall sound and group energy which drove them. I'd argue the songs were the vehicles for the Ramones, as utilitarian as the little wooden spoons they used to give out with cups of ice cream. The focus was the ice cream itself, the spoon was something you'd use for a few minutes and discard. That's why a Ramones concert had an incredible number of song titles in the setlist...they played so many, so fast, that most clocked in at 2 minutes or less.

It's not like the live Grateful Dead or even the Beach Boys or Pearl Jam, Phish, Springsteen, etc where fans would discuss the merits of "Eyes Of The World" from JFK Stadium versus Winterland and all that. It wasn't the focus, of the band or the audience.

That, too, would lessen the importance of precision phrasing and delivery of vocal melodies with Joey Ramone...it wasn't necessary nor was it a part of their style to be as focused as the early Beach Boys on those musical elements. The gist of the Ramones was the overall energy and effect on the audiences, not the technicalities of the individual musical elements.


PS - If anyone doubts the influence of the Beach Boys on the Ramones...What I've actually done in lesson plans in the past was play the three most familiar versions of "Do You Wanna Dance", Bobby Freeman, Beach Boys, Ramones...and listen to how closely the Ramones modeled their version on the Beach Boys, even Dennis' vocal delivery. That is proof, along other examples that aren't covers, of how much the Ramones loved and took cues from those earlier 60's Beach Boys records. What Brian did with Do You Wanna Dance was shed all the pseudo-Latin elements of Freeman's original hit and streamline the overall pulse and groove into that straight 8th, rock and roll machine-like rhythm section pulsing under that track, and also streamline some of Freeman's melody and vocal phrasing/delivery into something Dennis could sing and deliver with less ornamentation and detail. More rock and roll, less technical delivery.

It's the template of the Ramones, minus of course the layers of Wall Of Sound. Strip it down to the basics of a rock and roll song.
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