gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
652080 Posts in 26054 Topics by 3716 Members - Latest Member: Smile_Essence1 November 13, 2019, 08:10:14 PM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Down Print
Author Topic: 1969-70 Copyright Extension Release Prediction Thread  (Read 8401 times)
rab2591
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4959


"My God. It's full of stars."


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2018, 09:04:49 AM »

A couple thoughts:

Bob Dylan (whatever labels are used for the Bootleg Series) does this thing with streaming services where places like Spotify or Apple Music get a "sample" of the boxset. Why not do that exact thing for these releases? If not much money is made with Spotify/Apple Music then why not upload a "sample" album with like 10 tracks, don't include the best ones, and then make it available for download on iTunes and other downloading services? If buying the digital downloads are key to keeping these releases going, then make the incentive greater for fans to buy it - and it's just as easy as going the Bob Dylan route and not making them totally available for free to listen to on Youtube.

May I also say to Alan and Mark that if you would prefer not to release a set one year for some reason, you might prefer to release all of it at once, that way there is no more injustice around the Beach Boys' legacy. Just a small suggestion, to release it all with a box set, instead of stopping all releases abruptly.

I'm picturing a double-sided boxset of Surf's Up and Sunflower...comes with both albums on vinyl, 2 CDs for each album with outtakes, demos, a cappella, and instrumentals. Heck, make a bonus disc of 'Landlocked' - what Surf's Up would have sounded like if Dennis' songs hadn't been removed. These are two of the greatest unknown albums the Beach Boys ever created. If any post-Smile album(s) deserve a boxset it is Surf's Up and Sunflower. Make them into one boxset and DO NOT put them up on streaming services and youtube for at least a year (go the 10 song sample route).

Also, I wonder if the Made In California boxset was the tipping point for Capitol to end the boxset releases for the Beach Boys? For some reason I think it didn't get the greatest of sales. But yet the SMiLE Boxset was on the Amazon charts for a good long while, if I recall correctly. MiC is a terrible barometer of possible boxset success for this band as many of us owned the majority of the songs on that boxset anyways, and thus were more unlikely to buy it (I got it, but it really wasn't a necessity as the Smile Boxset was). And many hardcore fans don't really dig Friends and 20/20 that much either, so it's hard to expect people to shell out money for songs they don't really care for in the first place. But Sunflower and Surf's Up? They are legends in the music community as a whole, making it on Rolling Stone lists and plenty other top-album lists. You've got a goldmine with those two albums, but the people who release this stuff need to be smart about how they do it.

Anywho, those are my thoughts about it all. I think the releases that Alan, Mark, and others have worked so hard on since MiC have been incredible, and I think that they deserve our support. I also think that people who run the finances ought to be shown the possible success of the Sunflower/Surf's Up material, and how it, of anything post-Smile, deserves a boxset.
Logged

Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site

The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4914



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2018, 09:24:43 AM »

Agreed, I would gently and passively suggest that all Beach Boys fans support these historical projects, because, if I may say so, they are essential for Art.  

+1

Please purchase the sets!

Even if you're a BBs fan who is awaiting future releases but doesn't want to spend the money (just because you can stream this set for free on Spotify/Youtube), please purchase this album, it's important!  Smiley
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 09:25:10 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
Bedroom Tapes
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 148



View Profile
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2018, 08:20:46 PM »

Maybe we'll just get "Beach Boys Central" one of these days!
Logged
♩♬🐸 Sorry Entertainer ♯♫♩🐇
The Dr. of Wilsonomics
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 10866


🍦🍦 Hi...how are you? ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2018, 08:22:44 PM »

LOL

To put it this way...when it was announced I still had hair and my beard hadn't gone gray yet, and that is NOT an exaggeration!
Logged

RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
___________________________________________________


"I’d rather die than owe the hospital Till I get old/ I get adrenalin straight to the heart/ like Uma Thurman overdosing kick-start/ Anaphylactic and super hypocondriactic "

^ This fake quote brought to you by "Oyster Pudding™ ....the Pudding with the Pearl inside!"
lance
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1017


View Profile WWW
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2019, 01:11:51 AM »

I can't imagine not paying for these and I think the quality of the digital downloads is outstanding. I might by a physical copy AND a digital download if it were available (because I just love the Beach Boys that much).

 I hope to heck we get bonus material through the "seventies" albums. I have derived so much enjoyment from all of the copyright extension releases. I get that there is no promo budget...You know, maybe the fans can help somehow with that?

At any rate, if they don't release it then some bootlegger will release it on the grey market in Europe. I'd rather my money go to Messrs. Boyd and LInnett and BRI than some shady character, personally, but one way or another what's already leaked is going to come out officially, at least.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2019, 01:14:20 AM by lance » Logged
PetSmile
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 95


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2019, 02:12:50 PM »


Also, I wonder if the Made In California boxset was the tipping point for Capitol to end the boxset releases for the Beach Boys? For some reason I think it didn't get the greatest of sales. But yet the SMiLE Boxset was on the Amazon charts for a good long while, if I recall correctly. MiC is a terrible barometer of possible boxset success for this band as many of us owned the majority of the songs on that boxset anyways, and thus were more unlikely to buy it (I got it, but it really wasn't a necessity as the Smile Boxset was). And many hardcore fans don't really dig Friends and 20/20 that much either, so it's hard to expect people to shell out money for songs they don't really care for in the first place. But Sunflower and Surf's Up? They are legends in the music community as a whole, making it on Rolling Stone lists and plenty other top-album lists. You've got a goldmine with those two albums, but the people who release this stuff need to be smart about how they do it.

Anywho, those are my thoughts about it all. I think the releases that Alan, Mark, and others have worked so hard on since MiC have been incredible, and I think that they deserve our support. I also think that people who run the finances ought to be shown the possible success of the Sunflower/Surf's Up material, and how it, of anything post-Smile, deserves a boxset.

Agreed. I think the reason Made in California wasn't a great success was because it wasn't classy and elegant enough. As for its image, there should have been better album artwork, and a better name for the box set. As for the content, it had too much previously released material on it to buy the whole set, unlike these new releases.

I agree with the idea of a Sunflower and Surf's Up Box Set for next year, that way hopefully the Fred Vail country album will finally see the light of day.
Logged

What would I be without you.
Ram4
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 305


View Profile
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2019, 09:57:59 AM »


Also, I wonder if the Made In California boxset was the tipping point for Capitol to end the boxset releases for the Beach Boys? For some reason I think it didn't get the greatest of sales. But yet the SMiLE Boxset was on the Amazon charts for a good long while, if I recall correctly. MiC is a terrible barometer of possible boxset success for this band as many of us owned the majority of the songs on that boxset anyways, and thus were more unlikely to buy it (I got it, but it really wasn't a necessity as the Smile Boxset was). And many hardcore fans don't really dig Friends and 20/20 that much either, so it's hard to expect people to shell out money for songs they don't really care for in the first place. But Sunflower and Surf's Up? They are legends in the music community as a whole, making it on Rolling Stone lists and plenty other top-album lists. You've got a goldmine with those two albums, but the people who release this stuff need to be smart about how they do it.

Anywho, those are my thoughts about it all. I think the releases that Alan, Mark, and others have worked so hard on since MiC have been incredible, and I think that they deserve our support. I also think that people who run the finances ought to be shown the possible success of the Sunflower/Surf's Up material, and how it, of anything post-Smile, deserves a boxset.
If the Monkees can have boxsets for all of their albums (including the later ones), I would think Sunflower and Surf's Up could as well. 

Agreed. I think the reason Made in California wasn't a great success was because it wasn't classy and elegant enough. As for its image, there should have been better album artwork, and a better name for the box set. As for the content, it had too much previously released material on it to buy the whole set, unlike these new releases.

I agree with the idea of a Sunflower and Surf's Up Box Set for next year, that way hopefully the Fred Vail country album will finally see the light of day.
Logged
rab2591
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4959


"My God. It's full of stars."


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2019, 12:24:11 PM »


Also, I wonder if the Made In California boxset was the tipping point for Capitol to end the boxset releases for the Beach Boys? For some reason I think it didn't get the greatest of sales. But yet the SMiLE Boxset was on the Amazon charts for a good long while, if I recall correctly. MiC is a terrible barometer of possible boxset success for this band as many of us owned the majority of the songs on that boxset anyways, and thus were more unlikely to buy it (I got it, but it really wasn't a necessity as the Smile Boxset was). And many hardcore fans don't really dig Friends and 20/20 that much either, so it's hard to expect people to shell out money for songs they don't really care for in the first place. But Sunflower and Surf's Up? They are legends in the music community as a whole, making it on Rolling Stone lists and plenty other top-album lists. You've got a goldmine with those two albums, but the people who release this stuff need to be smart about how they do it.

Anywho, those are my thoughts about it all. I think the releases that Alan, Mark, and others have worked so hard on since MiC have been incredible, and I think that they deserve our support. I also think that people who run the finances ought to be shown the possible success of the Sunflower/Surf's Up material, and how it, of anything post-Smile, deserves a boxset.

Agreed. I think the reason Made in California wasn't a great success was because it wasn't classy and elegant enough. As for its image, there should have been better album artwork, and a better name for the box set. As for the content, it had too much previously released material on it to buy the whole set, unlike these new releases.

I agree with the idea of a Sunflower and Surf's Up Box Set for next year, that way hopefully the Fred Vail country album will finally see the light of day.

It is somewhat puzzling that the theme was a school yearbook. Be True To Your School and School Days I think are the only two songs where the Beach Boys explicitly talk about school. And though BTTYS went to #6 on the charts, it's not like it's a vital part of the catalogue. The GV boxset was beautiful with that surfboard look, and I think it probably did a phenomenal job pulling in those casual fans and possibly turning them into bigger fans of the post-surf era material. MiC was a book (instead of a box), and sadly the back of mine has completely warped (no fault of my own), in fact, I wonder if this has happened to any other people here - the back cover panel that holds all the discs is pretty warped on mine, and it really hasn't left the shelf it's been on so I don't know what could have caused this.

I am still very grateful for the MiC boxset, but I hope that the possible lack of MiC sales won't effect the possibility of a Sunflower/Surf's Up set in the coming year or two. MiC and Sunflower/SU are two different animals, and I think, if marketed right, it could be a great selling item for the band.
Logged

Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site

The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
lance
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1017


View Profile WWW
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2019, 03:45:57 AM »

"Pom Pom Playgirl."
 I would also say that the lyrics of "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "Keep an Eye on Summer"  implicitly takes place in a setting that includes school in the reality of the progagonists.

Then there are Wilson songs like "New Girl in School" (in all its permutations).

 "Surfers Rule" -- the first line is It's plastered on the walls all around the school now

"IN the Parking Lot" explicitly takes place in front of a school.


I think most of the protagonists in the early songs are meant to be teenage kids (even though they were written by young men) and they are obviously trying to capture, even document,  the American teenage culture of the 1960s (and few writers have caught it better than Wilson with Love and his other co-writers. )

The year book thing makes perfect sense to me, honestly. Though I have no skin in this game -- I just care about the music.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 03:47:47 AM by lance » Logged
doc smiley
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 320


Timeless pounds the livin' daylights outta trendy


View Profile
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2019, 06:27:51 AM »

"Made In California" boxset didn't sell as well as expected because it cost too much money for the amount of collectable material it contained. While I eventually bought it (used) I never saw it slip under the $100 mark during the initial release months. There just wasn't enough gems on it that I didn't already have to justify the expense IMHO.
Logged

"A voice or a song can be so comforting to someone who really needs it."
..................................Brian Wilson, 1990
rab2591
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4959


"My God. It's full of stars."


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2019, 07:28:09 AM »

"Pom Pom Playgirl."
 I would also say that the lyrics of "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "Keep an Eye on Summer"  implicitly takes place in a setting that includes school in the reality of the progagonists.

Then there are Wilson songs like "New Girl in School" (in all its permutations).

 "Surfers Rule" -- the first line is It's plastered on the walls all around the school now

"IN the Parking Lot" explicitly takes place in front of a school.


I think most of the protagonists in the early songs are meant to be teenage kids (even though they were written by young men) and they are obviously trying to capture, even document,  the American teenage culture of the 1960s (and few writers have caught it better than Wilson with Love and his other co-writers. )

The year book thing makes perfect sense to me, honestly. Though I have no skin in this game -- I just care about the music.

You are totally right that the early years of this band were inspired by an aura of high-school-centric activities, but it's a career spanning boxset - so maybe 6 songs on the set vaguely or explicitly relate to school, the other 168 songs range from surfing to vegetables to the planets in our solar system.

I do see what you're saying, and it does make sense on some level, I just don't think it was the best marketing idea given that the set covers 50 years of the band and basically 3 of those years had some school-centric songs, and that their basic image is that of America's surf band. I say that, but I doubt I could think of anything better, and I think some of the "ads" and the inclusion of Brian's theory of life paper were really special...and in the context of the yearbook idea made perfect sense to include. So while I find the idea somewhat puzzling from a marketing standpoint, I still do think its a nice set (I have listened to it constantly since getting it the week it came out).
Logged

Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site

The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
Cabinessenceking
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2083


View Profile
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2019, 02:30:05 PM »

I don't think it comes as a big surprise that MiC failed commercially, especially considering the expectations of it coinciding with the C50 tour. I believe they expected to replicate the success of the GV30 set from the early 90s with the release of MiC.

I can only speculate why this didn't happen, but possible contenders could be:

- Beach Boys release fatigue:
In the previous two years the Smile Sessions and the reunion album (TWGMTR) had been released, followed by two (blandly packaged) greatest hits compilations. The Smile Sessions was widely anticipated on its release, as was the reunion album. The greatest hit sets failed as well and they compare unfavourably with more successful biggest hit compilations like Sounds of Summer. The MiC set was more obscure and trailed these releases in publicity.

- The release was a complete marketing blunder:
The set has a low aestethical appeal. That bland, bright orange cover. There is no contrast of colours or vividness in the colours used. There is no message in that cover; no Sounds of Summer, no Endless Summer!  That hideous 15 Big Ones logo (aesthetically awful and cheesy) blended into the background and the wave motif didn't work at all. The presentation of this set was inferior to that of the GV30 box in every way. Overall the design of this set is cheap, tacky and does not do justice to the amazing music of the group. This group is going to be remembered as a classic musical act which defined mid-20th century music making, on par with the Beatles and Elvis. They will be remembered for centuries, like we remember the masters of the classical era. The design of this set is an affront to that legacy.

- The music was already available for those wanting to hear it:
Why would a casual listener go for an exhaustive boxed set when the biggest hits are available on itunes, spotify, youtube, etc. Music was not consumed like this back when GV30 succeeded commercially in the 90s.

- The set offered little new for buyers, considering its price:
For the casual listener, there was little incentive to get this set. For the fans the awards of getting this set were relatively small, with a scattering of new unreleased tracks amongst the conventional material we already possess. Instead of offering the really interesting pieces, they put out stuff nobody wanted to hear, like the instrumental track of "Transcendental Meditation".

As I said, these points are just my personal speculation. I believe that to some extent these points could explain why MiC didn't deliver. I hope future releases will be more in the style of the recent copyright extension releases, which have been very respectful of the group's legacy.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 09:52:18 AM by Cabinessenceking » Logged
rab2591
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4959


"My God. It's full of stars."


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2019, 04:06:04 PM »

Great post, Cabinessenceking.

- The set offered little new for buyers, considering its price:
For the casual listener, there was little incentive to get this set. For the fans the awards of getting this set were relatively small, with a scattering of new unreleased tracks scattered amongst the conventional material we already possess. Instead of offering the really interesting pieces, they put out stuff nobody wanted to hear, like the instrumental track of "Transcendental Meditation".

This. I remember the inclusion of the Pom Pom Playgirl vocal session track being a real irritant for me - knowing that there are some incredible tracks STILL in the vault and the vocal session for Pom Pom Playgirl made the cut. I still don't get that.

Do we know how the Pet Sounds 50th set did? I feel like we already had the boxset for that album, so I can't imagine that one faired too well either.
Logged

Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site

The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
Jay
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5718



View Profile
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2019, 12:48:02 AM »

I'm probably in the minority, but I really couldn't care less about stereo mixes of songs. Unless it was something like Good Vibrations, or an otherwise lost tape. I think that was one of the big problems with the MIC box.
Logged

A son of anarchy surrounded by the hierarchy.
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4914



View Profile
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2019, 01:10:49 AM »


This. I remember the inclusion of the Pom Pom Playgirl vocal session track being a real irritant for me - knowing that there are some incredible tracks STILL in the vault and the vocal session for Pom Pom Playgirl made the cut. I still don't get that.
 

I think this must have been done because the song is notable for being Carl's 1st lead vocal, hence the historical significance. I feel confident in assuming that if it had been just another dime-a-dozen Mike lead from this era, that the vocal session would not have gotten its own place in this set.

I remember being blown away by hearing the tracking session for this song (was it on the 1964 Copyright Extension release?) because it had more nuance and complexity than it seemed on the surface, and I was especially surprised to hear Mike playing sax at this (for him) late date in the timeline. Kind of the last gasp of any instrument like that being played by a BBs band member prior to the Wrecking Crew taking over those types of instruments.

While it wasn't a complex sax part, I still feel that finding out that Mike played that part was a "wow" moment for me, somewhat dispelling a myth that he just played sax on a couple songs in the very early years.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 01:12:50 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
BeachBoysCovers
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 112


View Profile WWW
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2019, 03:05:20 AM »

    Do we know how the Pet Sounds 50th set did? I feel like we already had the boxset for that album, so I can't imagine that one faired too well either.

    In the UK, the week after the 50th set, Pet Sounds re-entered the charts at 89, then up to 26, then down to 71, before going out again. However, the 2CD re-release was also at the same time, so it doesn't necessarily mean the big boxset sold well.

    Sunshine Tomorrow entered at 49. Admittedly went straight back out again, but no digital download copyright extension has come into the UK charts.

    Meanwhile, the RPO album spent 3 weeks in the Top 10 and 10 weeks in the charts total. Obviously completely different beasts, but you know some accountant somewhere will be asking why they bother releasing all these extensions that don't sell well and not an RPO every year.

    (and while I'm here reeling off chart figures, Live - The 50th Anniversary Tour went to number 82 for a week.)

    [/list]
    Logged

    rab2591
    Smiley Smile Associate
    *
    Offline Offline

    Gender: Male
    Posts: 4959


    "My God. It's full of stars."


    View Profile
    « Reply #41 on: January 13, 2019, 06:57:09 AM »


    This. I remember the inclusion of the Pom Pom Playgirl vocal session track being a real irritant for me - knowing that there are some incredible tracks STILL in the vault and the vocal session for Pom Pom Playgirl made the cut. I still don't get that.
     

    I think this must have been done because the song is notable for being Carl's 1st lead vocal, hence the historical significance. I feel confident in assuming that if it had been just another dime-a-dozen Mike lead from this era, that the vocal session would not have gotten its own place in this set.

    I remember being blown away by hearing the tracking session for this song (was it on the 1964 Copyright Extension release?) because it had more nuance and complexity than it seemed on the surface, and I was especially surprised to hear Mike playing sax at this (for him) late date in the timeline. Kind of the last gasp of any instrument like that being played by a BBs band member prior to the Wrecking Crew taking over those types of instruments.

    While it wasn't a complex sax part, I still feel that finding out that Mike played that part was a "wow" moment for me, somewhat dispelling a myth that he just played sax on a couple songs in the very early years.

    That makes sense. I think it being on the rarities disc just throws me off. That '64 Copyright release is my favorite one they've released. EVERY track on there is gold.

    @BeachBoysCovers, thanks much for the info!
    Logged

    Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site

    The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
    lance
    Smiley Smile Associate
    *
    Offline Offline

    Gender: Male
    Posts: 1017


    View Profile WWW
    « Reply #42 on: January 13, 2019, 07:50:12 AM »

    "Pom Pom Playgirl."
     I would also say that the lyrics of "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "Keep an Eye on Summer"  implicitly takes place in a setting that includes school in the reality of the progagonists.

    Then there are Wilson songs like "New Girl in School" (in all its permutations).

     "Surfers Rule" -- the first line is It's plastered on the walls all around the school now

    "IN the Parking Lot" explicitly takes place in front of a school.


    I think most of the protagonists in the early songs are meant to be teenage kids (even though they were written by young men) and they are obviously trying to capture, even document,  the American teenage culture of the 1960s (and few writers have caught it better than Wilson with Love and his other co-writers. )

    The year book thing makes perfect sense to me, honestly. Though I have no skin in this game -- I just care about the music.

    You are totally right that the early years of this band were inspired by an aura of high-school-centric activities, but it's a career spanning boxset - so maybe 6 songs on the set vaguely or explicitly relate to school, the other 168 songs range from surfing to vegetables to the planets in our solar system.

    I do see what you're saying, and it does make sense on some level, I just don't think it was the best marketing idea given that the set covers 50 years of the band and basically 3 of those years had some school-centric songs, and that their basic image is that of America's surf band. I say that, but I doubt I could think of anything better, and I think some of the "ads" and the inclusion of Brian's theory of life paper were really special...and in the context of the yearbook idea made perfect sense to include. So while I find the idea somewhat puzzling from a marketing standpoint, I still do think its a nice set (I have listened to it constantly since getting it the week it came out).
    Oh, I agree that it is not indicative of their total output, not by a long shot,  but I personally don't think it is the kind of thing that affects sales, and the fact is, they are known for the songs about teenage culture + Pet Sounds, so I get it. It really is safest to play up that aspect and let people discover the other sides of the band at this point. If it was 1971, of course, I'd say they should play up the other sides more. But my experience preaching the Beach Boys gospels is that most people really don't care about the other sides of the band. It's like, their minds are already made up.
    Logged
    rab2591
    Smiley Smile Associate
    *
    Offline Offline

    Gender: Male
    Posts: 4959


    "My God. It's full of stars."


    View Profile
    « Reply #43 on: January 13, 2019, 09:28:39 AM »

    Oh, I agree that it is not indicative of their total output, not by a long shot,  but I personally don't think it is the kind of thing that affects sales, and the fact is, they are known for the songs about teenage culture + Pet Sounds, so I get it. It really is safest to play up that aspect and let people discover the other sides of the band at this point. If it was 1971, of course, I'd say they should play up the other sides more. But my experience preaching the Beach Boys gospels is that most people really don't care about the other sides of the band. It's like, their minds are already made up.

    That's why I think their GV Boxset look is the better route to take. Where the Beach Boys are known for surfing, and not really known as a school-related-activities band, I just think it makes more sense to market the former rather than the latter. I think CabinessenceKing said it best about MiC:

    Quote
    The set has a low aestethical appeal. That bland, bright orange cover. There is no contrast of colours or vividness in the colours used. There is no message in that cover; no Sounds of Summer, no Endless Summer!  That hideous 15 Big Ones logo (aesthetically awful and cheesy) blended into the background and the wave motif didn't work at all.

    The GV Boxset was very clear about what it was, and I think it does a good job of drawing people in. So I'm not at all against them using their early years as a marketing tool to increase appeal of a boxset/set. But at least give it some appeal...make it obvious what you're going for at least. You can't even really tell it's a yearbook theme until you open the set up. Again I'll say: I like the set. But put the GV set (surfing) and MiC (yearbook) in front of a casual fan with $100 and I'd bet they would pic the more aesthetically pleasing GV set. Just my opinion.

    I think we both agree that marketing the early years of the band is a good route to take though.
    Logged

    Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site

    The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
    Jay
    Smiley Smile Associate
    *
    Offline Offline

    Posts: 5718



    View Profile
    « Reply #44 on: January 13, 2019, 09:43:47 AM »

    Honestly, I think marketing the early years only(or primarily) is selling the group short. They are so much more than the surfing, fun in the sun image. I'd like to see a commercial or online promotional item with a picture of their long hair, bearded hippy phase.  Grin Seriously though, there is so much more to this band, that the endless  surfing and hot rod shtick is almost an insult. Did any of that make sense? It sounds so logical and clear in my head, but I feel like I didn't say it right.  LOL
    Logged

    A son of anarchy surrounded by the hierarchy.
    guitarfool2002
    Global Moderator
    *****
    Offline Offline

    Posts: 8751


    "Barba non facit aliam historici"


    View Profile WWW
    « Reply #45 on: January 13, 2019, 10:37:44 AM »

    Oh, I agree that it is not indicative of their total output, not by a long shot,  but I personally don't think it is the kind of thing that affects sales, and the fact is, they are known for the songs about teenage culture + Pet Sounds, so I get it. It really is safest to play up that aspect and let people discover the other sides of the band at this point. If it was 1971, of course, I'd say they should play up the other sides more. But my experience preaching the Beach Boys gospels is that most people really don't care about the other sides of the band. It's like, their minds are already made up.

    That's why I think their GV Boxset look is the better route to take. Where the Beach Boys are known for surfing, and not really known as a school-related-activities band, I just think it makes more sense to market the former rather than the latter. I think CabinessenceKing said it best about MiC:

    Quote
    The set has a low aestethical appeal. That bland, bright orange cover. There is no contrast of colours or vividness in the colours used. There is no message in that cover; no Sounds of Summer, no Endless Summer!  That hideous 15 Big Ones logo (aesthetically awful and cheesy) blended into the background and the wave motif didn't work at all.

    The GV Boxset was very clear about what it was, and I think it does a good job of drawing people in. So I'm not at all against them using their early years as a marketing tool to increase appeal of a boxset/set. But at least give it some appeal...make it obvious what you're going for at least. You can't even really tell it's a yearbook theme until you open the set up. Again I'll say: I like the set. But put the GV set (surfing) and MiC (yearbook) in front of a casual fan with $100 and I'd bet they would pic the more aesthetically pleasing GV set. Just my opinion.

    I think we both agree that marketing the early years of the band is a good route to take though.


    The GV box set had something in the way of a killer app that can never be duplicated: Roughly 45 minutes of "Smile" music, which up to that point unless you were buying bootlegs for $25 per disc as a consumer and fan, you had never heard in this quality before.

    Rolling Stone magazine - In an issue featuring Snoop and Dre on the cover if I recall - reviewed and rated the GV set 5 stars, and also mentioned how difficult it was after hearing the Smile material on disc 2 to keep listening with the same perspective, if you were going chronologically.

    The fact it had surfing imagery, and included a surfboard commemorative sticker (which my set didn't have), and included "Kokomo" I don't think added to its success or appeal. It was the fact you could get 5 discs worth of the band's music with outtakes AND the Smile material in one set, and it was nicely balanced. The fact that it looked like a surfboard only added to what I'm sure some newer or younger fans who bought it experienced in the way of scratching their head and asking is this the same band...after seeing what the "Beach Boys" were doing as of the early 90's versus hearing the Smile material and other examples of what they had done before the dancing "Kokomo Girls" took the stage and Summer In Paradise was the most current album in the stores.
    Logged

    "All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
    ♩♬🐸 Sorry Entertainer ♯♫♩🐇
    The Dr. of Wilsonomics
    Global Moderator
    *****
    Offline Offline

    Gender: Male
    Posts: 10866


    🍦🍦 Hi...how are you? ☮☮


    View Profile WWW
    « Reply #46 on: January 13, 2019, 10:58:16 AM »

    Honestly, I think marketing the early years only(or primarily) is selling the group short. They are so much more than the surfing, fun in the sun image. I'd like to see a commercial or online promotional item with a picture of their long hair, bearded hippy phase.  Grin Seriously though, there is so much more to this band, that the endless  surfing and hot rod shtick is almost an insult. Did any of that make sense? It sounds so logical and clear in my head, but I feel like I didn't say it right.  LOL


    I feel the exact same way
    Logged

    RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
    _______________________________________________________
    Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

    "I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
    ___________________________________________________


    "I’d rather die than owe the hospital Till I get old/ I get adrenalin straight to the heart/ like Uma Thurman overdosing kick-start/ Anaphylactic and super hypocondriactic "

    ^ This fake quote brought to you by "Oyster Pudding™ ....the Pudding with the Pearl inside!"
    c-man
    Smiley Smile Associate
    *
    Offline Offline

    Gender: Male
    Posts: 4401


    View Profile WWW
    « Reply #47 on: January 13, 2019, 11:32:08 AM »


    Rolling Stone magazine - In an issue featuring Snoop and Dre on the cover if I recall - reviewed and rated the GV set 5 stars...


    I think it was Beavis and Butthead.  Same difference?  Smiley

    Logged
    rab2591
    Smiley Smile Associate
    *
    Offline Offline

    Gender: Male
    Posts: 4959


    "My God. It's full of stars."


    View Profile
    « Reply #48 on: January 13, 2019, 11:41:56 AM »

    Honestly, I think marketing the early years only(or primarily) is selling the group short. They are so much more than the surfing, fun in the sun image. I'd like to see a commercial or online promotional item with a picture of their long hair, bearded hippy phase.  Grin Seriously though, there is so much more to this band, that the endless  surfing and hot rod shtick is almost an insult. Did any of that make sense? It sounds so logical and clear in my head, but I feel like I didn't say it right.  LOL

    Oh yeah, couldn't agree more (and have said so a lot in previous threads regarding this stuff), but from a marketing standpoint your average Joe American knows this band as America's Surfin Safari band, so it makes sense to me to market a career spanning boxset the way they marketed the GV Boxset.

    I am certain that whatever we get for the Sunflower/Surf's Up sets we will see some hippie looking Beach Boys as part of the promotion (if there is any). Cool Guy

    The fact it had surfing imagery, and included a surfboard commemorative sticker (which my set didn't have), and included "Kokomo" I don't think added to its success or appeal. It was the fact you could get 5 discs worth of the band's music with outtakes AND the Smile material in one set, and it was nicely balanced. The fact that it looked like a surfboard only added to what I'm sure some newer or younger fans who bought it experienced in the way of scratching their head and asking is this the same band...after seeing what the "Beach Boys" were doing as of the early 90's versus hearing the Smile material and other examples of what they had done before the dancing "Kokomo Girls" took the stage and Summer In Paradise was the most current album in the stores.

    [Keeping in mind this conversation has been about my view of why Made In California's school yearbook cover probably wasn't the best approach to marketing the set] I just think the tasteful surfboard imagery of the GV set cover is more appealing to your casual Beach Boys listener in the store/online more than the flat orange cover of Made in California...I'm not talking about Kokomo's inclusion or any goodies inside the GV box, just the visual appeal of the outside. From a marketing standpoint it just makes sense to me to market the image of the band that your average American thinks of when they think of Beach Boys...especially when its a box set whose target audience is everyone.
    Logged

    Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site

    The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
    guitarfool2002
    Global Moderator
    *****
    Offline Offline

    Posts: 8751


    "Barba non facit aliam historici"


    View Profile WWW
    « Reply #49 on: January 13, 2019, 12:06:21 PM »


    Rolling Stone magazine - In an issue featuring Snoop and Dre on the cover if I recall - reviewed and rated the GV set 5 stars...


    I think it was Beavis and Butthead.  Same difference?  Smiley



    Yes, thanks for the reminder! I saved two copies of RS magazine from the same time, August-September 1993, and still have them. I got the covers confused, the B&B cover from August was the one with the 5-star review for the box set as you said, and after re-reading it just now it is more perceptive and on-point than I remembered (especially for 1993), and some lines I thought were there are actually in other reviews.

    After finding both of them together on a bookshelf, I forgot why I saved the Snoop/Dre issue. Then I looked at it, as it was also the "College Issue", and they had a multi-page spread reporting on Berklee, where I was attending at that exact time, and some people I knew were in the photos. So that's why I saved the Snoop/Dre issue. I got them mixed up.
    Logged

    "All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
    gfx
    Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Up Print 
    gfx
    Jump to:  
    gfx
    Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 1.511 seconds with 22 queries.
    Helios Multi design by Bloc
    gfx
    Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!