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Author Topic: 1969-70 Copyright Extension Release Prediction Thread  (Read 6767 times)
Wata
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« on: December 24, 2018, 11:12:57 PM »

(Sorry if this topic was posted before)

So, now that all of the 1968 has been released, I think it's time to talk about next year's possible copyright extension release, which will supposedly cover the Sunflower sessions  8-)

One thing that interests me is whether they go with 1969 alone, or put it out together with 1970 stuff, which is mostly still Sunflower. I hope the latter will be the case.

Another point is whether they go with physical release or just download-only. Sunflower is such a critically acclaimed album, which used to be on Rolling Stone's 500 all-time greatest albums list (and was taken down in favor of SMiLE Sessions), and I hope that will convince the record company of the same treatment as Sunshine Tomorrow.

Here's the list of outtakes for possible inclusion (off the top of my head right now...thanks for Bellagio site):

From 1969...

- Got to Know the Woman (mono mix intended for Reverberation)
- Loop De Loop (original mix with alternate lead vocal)
- The Lord's Prayer (duophonic mix intended for Reverberation)
- When Girls Get Together (track)
- I'm Going Your Way/California Slide
- What Can The Matter Be?
- Raspberries, Strawberries (early version of At My Window)
- Walkin' (it was released on '68 set, but there could be some other stuff, such as the backing track, that they can include)
- BW Backing Tracks from Kalinich album sessions
- Til' I Die (piano demo)
- Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again (piano demo)
- This Whole World (long version, according to "Brother Re-Issues Bonus Tracks" that was talked about on Smiley a while ago)
- Add Some Music (alt. ver.)
- Carnival

From 1970...

- You Never Give Me Your Money (impromptu cover from the Good Time sessions)
- Back Home (demo)
- Tears in the Morning (early mix found on Add Some Music)
- Fred Vail Country Album with BW
- Season in the Sun
- Looking at Tomorrow (original mix for "2nd Warner Brothers LP")
- Big Sur
- My Solution

I also would like to see some a cappella mixes/backing tracks, as well as brand new remix for Sunflower outtakes, and if possible Sunflower itself. It would be very neat to have all the Sunflower outtakes in one place.
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Mr Fulton
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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2018, 11:16:55 PM »

This set is going to be amazing so many things they could add, the early version of Slip On Through with that alternate backing track is sure to be on there too
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« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2018, 12:00:15 AM »

I think they’re going to keep the years separated, but I think there’s studio stuff we’ve never heard. Of course there will be live stuff and some remixes. I’m expecting the Til I Die piano demo on there. Maybe the Honeys single and a track with Stephen Kalinich. 1970 will have the remainder of Sunflower and Surfs up. 1971 and 1972 may be very interesting if certain takes les have been found, as Brian’s voice had notably Changed by that point (which we heard a bit of of the remake of Passing By)
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« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2018, 04:08:54 AM »

Was Dennis's sublime 'It's A New Day' from this year?
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« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2018, 05:03:06 AM »

It’s A New Day was recorded in 71 I think
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« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2018, 06:12:48 AM »

I believe that "Bedroom Tapes" article mentioned that some new material was found that they recorded in Brian's home studio sometime in 1970. Would love to hear that.
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« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2018, 07:20:26 AM »

We’re entering the time period The Beach Boys started owning their own recordings (as opposed to Capitol). I wonder if this will affect the copyright extension releases in any way?
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« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2018, 09:05:08 AM »

Excited for the Til I Die demo to finally see public release, even though it's not much. Still a very interesting piece.
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« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2018, 08:04:11 PM »

Off topic, but will we ever hear the 2nd Flame album?
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« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2018, 08:47:07 PM »

Excited for the Til I Die demo to finally see public release, even though it's not much. Still a very interesting piece.

Is the demo the version with the "positive" and "uplifting" Mike lyrics?
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« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2018, 08:52:56 PM »

I’d like to see a legit release of the BB’s set from the Big Sur Folk Festival.
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« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2018, 09:01:10 PM »

Excited for the Til I Die demo to finally see public release, even though it's not much. Still a very interesting piece.

Is the demo the version with the "positive" and "uplifting" Mike lyrics?
Nope, it's purely instrumental. Like the Don't Talk demo.
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« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2018, 09:06:14 PM »

Off topic, but will we ever hear the 2nd Flame album?

I hope so, because it's going to be the 50 year anniversary of the The Flame self titled album.
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« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2018, 10:32:22 PM »

Off topic, but will we ever hear the 2nd Flame album?

I hope so, because it's going to be the 50 year anniversary of the The Flame self titled album.

Damn, already?
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« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2018, 01:36:05 AM »

Excited for the Til I Die demo to finally see public release, even though it's not much. Still a very interesting piece.

Is the demo the version with the "positive" and "uplifting" Mike lyrics?
Nope.
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« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2018, 02:37:06 AM »

Not a demo it’s just an alternative version of Til I Die and it’s only the Brian lyrics that are different
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« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2018, 04:38:38 AM »

Excited for the Til I Die demo to finally see public release, even though it's not much. Still a very interesting piece.

Is the demo the version with the "positive" and "uplifting" Mike lyrics?
The alternate lyrics were also written by Brian.
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« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2018, 06:47:38 AM »

Not a demo it’s just an alternative version of Til I Die and it’s only the Brian lyrics that are different
There is an alternate version of the song, and a piano demo.
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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2018, 07:49:05 AM »

We’re entering the time period The Beach Boys started owning their own recordings (as opposed to Capitol). I wonder if this will affect the copyright extension releases in any way?

Good question.  I've been wondering about this from day 1 of the CE releases.  Is the whole CE phenom really more of a Capitol thing?  I sure hope not, but I wouldn't be surprised if we've seen the end of this annual end-of-year treat.  Of course, I hope I'm dead wrong.
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« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2018, 12:22:23 PM »

Regarding BRI owning the post-Capitol stuff, it's worth noting that while Capitol owns all of the masters and session tapes for most of the 60s recordings (made while under contract to Capitol), BRI has still had veto/signoff power on the release of Capitol-era outtakes.

This is why we've seen the released recordings milked to death by Capitol over the years, whereas they were obviously not able to just unilaterally release outtakes, even concerning tapes they own, of something like "Smile."

BRI has been involved in and signed off on these "Copyright Extension" sets. I don't know who has been more of the prime mover/motivator in getting these released done, but it's certainly not a case of Capitol just doing these releases on their own.

Of course, theoretically post-Capitol material should have either the same or less snags as BRI owns most of the material. I'm not sure if Capitol/UMe still has "first rights of refusal" on all Brother-era material still. Either way, I would imagine future "Copyright Extension" releases of BRI-owned material would either just be direct from BRI, or still through Capitol/UMe (certainly in the case of any possible future physical releases).

Keep in mind, though, that the band members (most of them anyway) become more and more "difficult" when it comes to post-1969 material. This was/is likely one of the reasons back in the early 2000s we never got that "Brother Rarities" set and instead got "Hawthorne, CA", which contained mostly 60s stuff with just a morsel of early 70s material.

The less Brian-centric that material becomes, and the more it involves still-living members, the more possibilities there are for vetoing or having issues. I think these "CE" releases are pretty streamlined at this stage, so I anticipate and hope they will continue. But I'm curious what might be vetoed, especially when we get to the later 70s. Will Mike want the 1977 recording of "Alone on Christmas Day" out there? Does Al want the early version of "Santa Ana Winds" or "Looking Down the Coast" out there? I dunno.

Hopefully, much like "Made in California", all the principals involved will continue to be generally supportive of archival releases, and we might just see specific individual cases where things are nixed/vetoed, etc.
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« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2018, 09:35:44 AM »

I’d like to see a legit release of the BB’s set from the Big Sur Folk Festival.

Ode Records may still own the rights to these recordings, which would likely complicate things. “Wouldn’t It Be Nice” appeared on Ode’s Celebration: The Big Sur Folk Festival 1970 LP (and was released as a single).
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« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2018, 09:37:03 AM »

Regarding BRI owning the post-Capitol stuff, it's worth noting that while Capitol owns all of the masters and session tapes for most of the 60s recordings (made while under contract to Capitol), BRI has still had veto/signoff power on the release of Capitol-era outtakes.

This is why we've seen the released recordings milked to death by Capitol over the years, whereas they were obviously not able to just unilaterally release outtakes, even concerning tapes they own, of something like "Smile."

BRI has been involved in and signed off on these "Copyright Extension" sets. I don't know who has been more of the prime mover/motivator in getting these released done, but it's certainly not a case of Capitol just doing these releases on their own.

Of course, theoretically post-Capitol material should have either the same or less snags as BRI owns most of the material. I'm not sure if Capitol/UMe still has "first rights of refusal" on all Brother-era material still. Either way, I would imagine future "Copyright Extension" releases of BRI-owned material would either just be direct from BRI, or still through Capitol/UMe (certainly in the case of any possible future physical releases).

Keep in mind, though, that the band members (most of them anyway) become more and more "difficult" when it comes to post-1969 material. This was/is likely one of the reasons back in the early 2000s we never got that "Brother Rarities" set and instead got "Hawthorne, CA", which contained mostly 60s stuff with just a morsel of early 70s material.

The less Brian-centric that material becomes, and the more it involves still-living members, the more possibilities there are for vetoing or having issues. I think these "CE" releases are pretty streamlined at this stage, so I anticipate and hope they will continue. But I'm curious what might be vetoed, especially when we get to the later 70s. Will Mike want the 1977 recording of "Alone on Christmas Day" out there? Does Al want the early version of "Santa Ana Winds" or "Looking Down the Coast" out there? I dunno.

Hopefully, much like "Made in California", all the principals involved will continue to be generally supportive of archival releases, and we might just see specific individual cases where things are nixed/vetoed, etc.

Great points/info.
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« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2018, 06:33:03 PM »

You forgot to include Break Away and Celebrate The News. Surely  we will get Backing Track and Vocal Mixes from these songs!
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« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2018, 07:03:25 AM »

I notice that everyone here is assuming (in a pretty taking-it-for-granted kind of way) that there will BE such a release every year. Don't forget, this archive stuff costs money to research, find, assemble, mix, and release, and if it doesn't make money, or doesn't make ENOUGH money as judged by the counters of beans... it won't happen. Mark Linett and Alan Boyd were making slightly alarming noises about that here as regards the 68 set recently, which I'm guessing might mean that the last couple of sets haven't exactly been burning up the Billboard 100. Just because we've been fortunate enough to get them every year so far... doesn't necessarily mean we'll be lucky enough to get them in future. Of course, I don't want that to happen any more than anyone here... but like local record shops, I suspect it's a case of 'use it or lose it'...

I know there are those in the BB fan community that aren't 'supporting' these sets because they'd prefer physical releases, and don't like downloads. For the record (as if I haven't made it clear enough in the past), I'm no fan of downloads either — not at all. Pretty much the only downloads I've ever bought are these annual BB sets, plus the odd thing I literally cannot get in any other format. But the economics of manufacturing physical release media for these sets are going to stack up even worse than they do for downloads, which in turn makes the bean counters even less well disposed to sanction their release. So holding out on buying these sets on the grounds that you'd prefer (or are just plain waiting for) an eventual hardware release seems unwise to me. Such a release may never come. And if even the sales of the download-only sets aren't that impressive over the coming months and years, even they may stop being released. So frankly, if it's a choice between hearing this stuff as a download or not hearing it at all ever, I sure know what my preference is...
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« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2018, 08:15:14 AM »

Agreed, I would gently and passively suggest that all Beach Boys fans support these historical projects, because, if I may say so, they are essential for Art. To those who are complaining about no physical release, let's not, shall we? Be grateful we are receiving these riches at all; let's generate positivity around these releases, and as I have said, they don't need any negativity around them. I recommend downloading them off 7Digital, a very classy service.

May I also say to Alan and Mark that if you would prefer not to release a set one year for some reason, you might prefer to release all of it at once, that way there is no more injustice around the Beach Boys' legacy. Just a small suggestion, to release it all with a box set, instead of stopping all releases abruptly.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 08:16:20 AM by PetSmile » Logged

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