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Author Topic: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published  (Read 43218 times)
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« Reply #425 on: March 08, 2019, 09:22:54 PM »

In THIS way...Carl wasn't Dennis.  Carl was a gentle soul who  wasn't a warrior.  Carl chose NOT to attend in Vietnam.  He was never a typical 'one of the boys' kinda guy.   Carl was a creative musician.   And this big hulking 'Wheaties' eater cold cocks him?  It wasn't like Carl was trying to sneak a little crack into somebody's pipe.  He was 1/2 cut...3 sheets to the wind...schickered.    Hangin' out with that 'contingent'...I'd have been plowed too.  [daily]  Then along comes a dim-witted, morally challenged, jock-wearing 1/2 miler...ON THE PAYROLL...who decides he can just up and knock 'the boss' out cold 'cause he ran his mouth a little too far while he was obviously under the influence of too many drinky-poos...plus the medication for his REALLY BAD back?

Rocklette should have known his place...and someone should have, subsequently shown him the door and cut him loose then and there...leaving him to try and figure out what his next move would have been...down under.  If that had happened...he'd still be there.  And we wouldn't be here.  That little man couldn't rub two clues together to warm his bonnet on even a record setting scorcher of a day.  Ethically and literally...there's never been ANYONE home.  And we're here 'discussing' his wee booklet?  Whoever asked the apologist's question "did anybody read the book?" needs to soak his noggin in a big-ass bowl of Pamplin piss.  We all read enough to know that the only thing floating in this bowl are huge, fly attracting dollops of sea-worthy bull sh!t.


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« Reply #426 on: March 08, 2019, 10:06:16 PM »

In THIS way...Carl wasn't Dennis.  Carl was a gentle soul who  wasn't a warrior.  Carl chose NOT to attend in Vietnam.  He was never a typical 'one of the boys' kinda guy.   Carl was a creative musician.   And this big hulking 'Wheaties' eater cold cocks him?  It wasn't like Carl was trying to sneak a little crack into somebody's pipe.  He was 1/2 cut...3 sheets to the wind...schickered.    Hangin' out with that 'contingent'...I'd have been plowed too.  [daily]  Then along comes a dim-witted, morally challenged, jock-wearing 1/2 miler...ON THE PAYROLL...who decides he can just up and knock 'the boss' out cold 'cause he ran his mouth a little too far while he was obviously under the influence of too many drinky-poos...plus the medication for his REALLY BAD back?

Rocklette should have known his place...and someone should have, subsequently shown him the door and cut him loose then and there...leaving him to try and figure out what his next move would have been...down under.  If that had happened...he'd still be there.  And we wouldn't be here.  That little man couldn't rub two clues together to warm his bonnet on even a record setting scorcher of a day.  Ethically and literally...there's never been ANYONE home.  And we're here 'discussing' his wee booklet?  Whoever asked the apologist's question "did anybody read the book?" needs to soak his noggin in a big-ass bowl of Pamplin piss.  We all read enough to know that the only thing floating in this bowl are huge, fly attracting dollops of sea-worthy bull sh!t.

This has been discussed and rehashed more than once, but I’ll say it again. Carl was on the payroll just like Rocky. David Frost was picking up the tab for the tour. He was the promoter. He funded it, was going to loose money on it if things went south. They were, big time. I was at the Christchurch show on the same tour. They sounded like sh!t. You would have continued funding that circus? Of course not. You would have got the muscle to straighten the instigators out, and David Frost did.
Again, ego’s, alcohol, drugs, testosterone, don’t mix. That’s my main point. Sure Carl was a class act, but he himself admitted he let himself down at that time (Perth). I don’t know if he ever did but had he been alive today it would not surprise me if he said the events of that tour turned his life around. Within 3 years he had sobered up and had a solo career.
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« Reply #427 on: March 13, 2019, 06:11:05 AM »

When Stephen took over the reins and replaced Nick Grillo as manager in April, 1972, momentum was finally building as the Beach Boys’ concert tours became increasingly popular. One of Stephen’s first major decisions was to start a repayment program from the band to Brian and Marilyn for $330,000 they’d poured into the group over the previous few years (well over two million dollars in today’s money). Stephen had Brian’s back. When all the money was eventually repaid, Marilyn gratefully told Stephen, “Thanks for looking after us.”

Brian cried when he signed the CBS contract. Could he miraculously create another hit record? For Brian, the thought was painful and frightening; he really wanted no part of fame or success again. After all, look what it had brought him before, nothing but heartache and disappointment. Brian had been a broken man for almost a decade.

Did he have the mettle to put his fragile self, his talent, and his soul on the line again? That was the multi-million-dollar question. We were going to see if Stephen could prop Brian up, with my help and Stan’s, and get the golden goose to produce a hit record that would resonate with the times.

A lot had happened during the years that Brian had been in bed, not writing music, totally withdrawn from the band. Cocaine and heroin had become his drugs of choice. He would call his dealers at all hours, day or night, and tell them there was a thousand dollars in the mailbox (that always guaranteed a quick delivery). Brian was a physical and emotional wreck. At his peak weight, he carried over 300 pounds on his 6-foot, 3-inch frame, had greasy hair down past his shoulders, a scraggly beard, unclipped toenails, nicotine-stained fingers, and went unbathed for days, sometimes weeks at a time.

To further complicate the challenges he faced, Brian heard voices on a regular basis, voices sometimes telling him to harm people, or that people were about to harm him.
...
. He was in the throes of addiction, a seemingly hopeless lost cause, and he’d been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. He had absolutely no interest in life, love, music or anything of value. Being a productive member of society was dead last on Brian’s list of priorities.
...
He was a defeated shell of a man, simply waiting to die. If ever there was a modern-day tragic Shakespearean character, Brian filled the role. He had, in the vernacular of surfers, wiped out.
...
Psychologist Eugene Landy was hired for the first time in 1975, but he was fired by Stephen after his fees climbed to over $22,000 a month. Marilyn reached the end of her rope in 1976, when she felt Brian was a danger to himself and to the family. She threatened to have him committed to a mental institution.
...
Stephen pleaded with Marilyn to delay committing Brian and to give it one more try, take one last chance to save Brian. He asked her permission to hire his younger brother, Stan, to enter their home and drag Brian out of bed—against his will, if necessary—to try and save Brian.
...
Marilyn would always push back. “You either do what Stan tells you to do, or you’re going to the mental hospital.”

Clearly, Stan needed more backup in the extremely demanding, nearly impossible task of saving a lost soul who would go to any length to get drugs. That’s when Stan suggested to Stephen that they bring me aboard to help.
...
Stephen’s last-ditch effort to avoid institutionalizing Brian worked, despite some surprising actions by Brian’s own brothers, and despite every wily effort Brian made to get drugs. Brian did come back from the edge, and Stephen’s "Brian’s Back" campaign made the band richer than it had been in its heyday in the Sixties.
This was an interesting thread.
To add to the comments about  the factual inaccuracies and the heroism of Mike Love, I would like to add the following thoughts:
1. If you feel that for legal reasons you can’t write an honest book, the ethical thing to do is not write it, and maybe write an article about the legal pressure to be either dishonest or silent.
2. Co-writing a nonfiction book behooves you to research the subject and fact-check.
3. The above quote recounts what was my main problem with Rocky before: the incredible inhumanity with which Brian Wilson was treated and the continued defense of it. It is clear from the set up that Brian Wilson has enough money to get proper treatment. It is also clear from the entire narrative that money for other members of the band  was the motivation behind Stephen Love’s and the other participants’ actions toward B Wilson, despite their justifications. The excerpt makes clear that all understood that he was suffering from severe mental illness, yet they decided to put him, at threat of physical abuse, in a stressful and damaging situation. To feign, among all the evidence of being motivated by finances, that the purpose was to save his life is pure gaslighting and justification for immoral exploitation of an extremely damaged and vulnerable person.
What they did to him then was not only immoral (IMO) but illegal (factually).
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« Reply #428 on: March 13, 2019, 08:33:09 AM »

Well said, Emily
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« Reply #429 on: March 13, 2019, 08:35:19 AM »

Welcome back emily!

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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #430 on: March 13, 2019, 04:49:35 PM »

I'll buy the book but only if i get to punch Rocky
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« Reply #431 on: March 14, 2019, 11:52:54 AM »

I'll buy the book but only if i get to punch Rocky

If Rocky tries to give drugs to Brian, I will punch him myself.
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Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #432 on: March 14, 2019, 02:50:30 PM »

I'll buy the book but only if i get to punch Rocky

If that was true of everyone who wanted to punch Rocky, he’d have a best seller
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« Reply #433 on: March 23, 2019, 07:33:14 PM »

I'll buy the book but only if i get to punch Rocky

If that was true of everyone who wanted to punch Rocky, he’d have a best seller
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« Reply #434 on: March 31, 2019, 07:07:21 PM »

I just noticed a couple of odd mistakes in the book. There is a photo on page 121 that he dates as 1978. But Brian and Carl look more like this is the late 80s or early 90s??? Later, Rocky claims Brian wrote 'Its Like Heaven' in 1978 after Brian had moved into his own house. Apparently,  Brian asked him to write lyrics. Rocky said, 'What's the matter Brian? Are you running out of lyrics?' Which turned into 'What's the matter with you, babe?' What's the matter with you?' The problem is, that lyric was in the 1972 version with American Spring. So either Rocky is confused on the timeline (but this being in Brian's new house seems unlikely to forget), or Rocky had never heard the song and Brian gave him credit for saying something similar to what had already been written,  or Rocky is making this up! But he does get credit for the song, so there is something to this.
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"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #435 on: March 31, 2019, 07:46:05 PM »

I just noticed a couple of odd mistakes in the book. There is a photo on page 121 that he dates as 1978. But Brian and Carl look more like this is the late 80s or early 90s??? Later, Rocky claims Brian wrote 'Its Like Heaven' in 1978 after Brian had moved into his own house. Apparently,  Brian asked him to write lyrics. Rocky said, 'What's the matter Brian? Are you running out of lyrics?' Which turned into 'What's the matter with you, babe?' What's the matter with you?' The problem is, that lyric was in the 1972 version with American Spring. So either Rocky is confused on the timeline (but this being in Brian's new house seems unlikely to forget), or Rocky had never heard the song and Brian gave him credit for saying something similar to what had already been written,  or Rocky is making this up! But he does get credit for the song, so there is something to this.

“It’s Like Heaven” has appeared as a bonus track on reissues of the 1972 album but it was recorded in the late seventies, no?
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« Reply #436 on: March 31, 2019, 07:46:53 PM »

Where did Ron go? Huh
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« Reply #437 on: April 01, 2019, 06:01:11 AM »

I just noticed a couple of odd mistakes in the book. There is a photo on page 121 that he dates as 1978. But Brian and Carl look more like this is the late 80s or early 90s??? Later, Rocky claims Brian wrote 'Its Like Heaven' in 1978 after Brian had moved into his own house. Apparently,  Brian asked him to write lyrics. Rocky said, 'What's the matter Brian? Are you running out of lyrics?' Which turned into 'What's the matter with you, babe?' What's the matter with you?' The problem is, that lyric was in the 1972 version with American Spring. So either Rocky is confused on the timeline (but this being in Brian's new house seems unlikely to forget), or Rocky had never heard the song and Brian gave him credit for saying something similar to what had already been written,  or Rocky is making this up! But he does get credit for the song, so there is something to this.

“It’s Like Heaven” has appeared as a bonus track on reissues of the 1972 album but it was recorded in the late seventies, no?

Oh I see. That's confusing.
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"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #438 on: April 13, 2019, 05:52:44 PM »

Glad I have a Google alert for Rocky. Otherwise, I might have missed this: Rocky and Ron were interviewed recently on a radio show: https://wwdbam.com/episodes/the-brian-and-lee-show-interview-with-rocky-pamplin-and-ron-hamady-authors-of-the-book-the-beach-boys-endless-wave/

Just starting to listen, the hosts don’t really seem like they know anything about the Beach Boys, so things aren’t looking too good for the quality of the interview…
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« Reply #439 on: April 14, 2019, 09:41:43 AM »

The hosts should feel right at home, as Rocky and Ron don't seem to know much about the band either...
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« Reply #440 on: April 14, 2019, 10:59:08 AM »

The hosts should feel right at home, as Rocky and Ron don't seem to know much about the band either...

Exactly LOL The interview was not a great listen by any stretch of the imagination, although a highlight was when Ron said his favorite Beach Boys song was “Heaven Only Knows What I’d Do Without You.” (Thankfully, Rocky and the hosts corrected him.)
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« Reply #441 on: April 15, 2019, 02:28:05 PM »

When Stephen took over the reins and replaced Nick Grillo as manager in April, 1972, momentum was finally building as the Beach Boys’ concert tours became increasingly popular. One of Stephen’s first major decisions was to start a repayment program from the band to Brian and Marilyn for $330,000 they’d poured into the group over the previous few years (well over two million dollars in today’s money). Stephen had Brian’s back. When all the money was eventually repaid, Marilyn gratefully told Stephen, “Thanks for looking after us.”

Brian cried when he signed the CBS contract. Could he miraculously create another hit record? For Brian, the thought was painful and frightening; he really wanted no part of fame or success again. After all, look what it had brought him before, nothing but heartache and disappointment. Brian had been a broken man for almost a decade.

Did he have the mettle to put his fragile self, his talent, and his soul on the line again? That was the multi-million-dollar question. We were going to see if Stephen could prop Brian up, with my help and Stan’s, and get the golden goose to produce a hit record that would resonate with the times.

A lot had happened during the years that Brian had been in bed, not writing music, totally withdrawn from the band. Cocaine and heroin had become his drugs of choice. He would call his dealers at all hours, day or night, and tell them there was a thousand dollars in the mailbox (that always guaranteed a quick delivery). Brian was a physical and emotional wreck. At his peak weight, he carried over 300 pounds on his 6-foot, 3-inch frame, had greasy hair down past his shoulders, a scraggly beard, unclipped toenails, nicotine-stained fingers, and went unbathed for days, sometimes weeks at a time.

To further complicate the challenges he faced, Brian heard voices on a regular basis, voices sometimes telling him to harm people, or that people were about to harm him.
...
. He was in the throes of addiction, a seemingly hopeless lost cause, and he’d been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. He had absolutely no interest in life, love, music or anything of value. Being a productive member of society was dead last on Brian’s list of priorities.
...
He was a defeated shell of a man, simply waiting to die. If ever there was a modern-day tragic Shakespearean character, Brian filled the role. He had, in the vernacular of surfers, wiped out.
...
Psychologist Eugene Landy was hired for the first time in 1975, but he was fired by Stephen after his fees climbed to over $22,000 a month. Marilyn reached the end of her rope in 1976, when she felt Brian was a danger to himself and to the family. She threatened to have him committed to a mental institution.
...
Stephen pleaded with Marilyn to delay committing Brian and to give it one more try, take one last chance to save Brian. He asked her permission to hire his younger brother, Stan, to enter their home and drag Brian out of bed—against his will, if necessary—to try and save Brian.
...
Marilyn would always push back. “You either do what Stan tells you to do, or you’re going to the mental hospital.”

Clearly, Stan needed more backup in the extremely demanding, nearly impossible task of saving a lost soul who would go to any length to get drugs. That’s when Stan suggested to Stephen that they bring me aboard to help.
...
Stephen’s last-ditch effort to avoid institutionalizing Brian worked, despite some surprising actions by Brian’s own brothers, and despite every wily effort Brian made to get drugs. Brian did come back from the edge, and Stephen’s "Brian’s Back" campaign made the band richer than it had been in its heyday in the Sixties.
This was an interesting thread.
To add to the comments about  the factual inaccuracies and the heroism of Mike Love, I would like to add the following thoughts:
1. If you feel that for legal reasons you can’t write an honest book, the ethical thing to do is not write it, and maybe write an article about the legal pressure to be either dishonest or silent.
2. Co-writing a nonfiction book behooves you to research the subject and fact-check.
3. The above quote recounts what was my main problem with Rocky before: the incredible inhumanity with which Brian Wilson was treated and the continued defense of it. It is clear from the set up that Brian Wilson has enough money to get proper treatment. It is also clear from the entire narrative that money for other members of the band  was the motivation behind Stephen Love’s and the other participants’ actions toward B Wilson, despite their justifications. The excerpt makes clear that all understood that he was suffering from severe mental illness, yet they decided to put him, at threat of physical abuse, in a stressful and damaging situation. To feign, among all the evidence of being motivated by finances, that the purpose was to save his life is pure gaslighting and justification for immoral exploitation of an extremely damaged and vulnerable person.
What they did to him then was not only immoral (IMO) but illegal (factually).


Thanks Emily - good to see you here.

Okay, I've avoided this thread for very painful reasons. But as I watch the shell of Notre Dame de Paris in flames, I'm just hoping we focus on the beauty of humanity and not dwell on all the horrible mistakes that have been made along the way, particularly around our treasured creator of beauty, Brian. This was a horrible time in Brian's life. The people who were in a position to help Brian didn't know what they didn't know. My suggestion that Brian meet with Jolly West at UCLA, thanks to my friend David Leaf, was met with condescension, not by Stan and Rocky, but by Steve Korthof. I blame none of them. I had no one to talk to because I had no respect. I suspect this was to do with people's imaginary ideas of who I was and why I was there. While I wasn't grabbing for the money like some, I just wasn't tough enough. I have to take responsibility for not having the confidence to insist on what was best for Brian.  I guess we were all just doing the best we could at the time.

So Brian got Landy for all those years (again) until Melinda went to the same group at UCLA many years later, again at David's suggestion. I'm not angry at the folks who didn't know who and what Brian needed, I'm just sad at it all. I've lost my anger and self-righteousness over this, since none of it matters in the end. I feel certain that all of the "tell all" books will sink into oblivion and Brian's music will live on. Nobody can write a tell-all book because no one knows "it all." I guess some of them are well-intended, but people can't avoid their self-serving POV because that's how we're made. If I wrote one, it wouldn't be accurate either. It's not possible.

I wish all of these people well. I guess they're still just doing the best they can. Can we just let the music speak?
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« Reply #442 on: April 17, 2019, 08:16:50 AM »

The people who were in a position to help Brian didn't know what they didn't know.
Accurate, but...

I'm not angry at the folks who didn't know who and what Brian needed, I'm just sad at it all.

...it's not just an issue of not knowing who and what he needed, it's an issue of being constitutionally unable to know - to ever know, and therefore, refusing to know. The people who were in the "position to help" Brian could never help, ever.  The story in its totality (encompassing 1942 - the present day) all but proves that. 

It might be said that before someone can helped, there ought to be an accurate accounting of the problem to be addressed - a diagnosis (pathology and etiology, whatever you want to call it). Think of a person on an operating table, but the surgeon doesn't know what's wrong with him (if anything) and he doesn't know why "the patient" is exhibiting certain symptoms, but the surgeon just starts hacking away.  That's basically what happened to Brian, it's extremely common in mental health both in Brian's era, throughout the past and right up to today. The reason for this is because we refuse to accept the very same things that the organization, in this case, could not accept, and therefore remained blind to.  Therefore Brian was on his own, as most people similarly situated are.  Only he could do something about it, only he could help himself (curiously Dennis Wilson says something to this effect about Brian in his radio interview with Fornatale).  Some make it, some don't.

The Brian Wilson story is unique not because of what happened to him, but because he is famous; I know of no other public figure whose life took the path that Brian's took and played out with the same dynamics and outcome - for such a long period of time, and more or less in public.  But again, what happened to Brian happens to people all the time - there can be differences in degree and in form, but in substance the same thing.

Can we just let the music speak?

No, actually, for the reasons above. The non-musical story of Brian Wilson is too significant, insofar as it involves man's "mental illness" problem - what is the problem, why does the problem exist, and what can be done about it. Brian asks this question in his recent book: "what is mental illness?" I personally believe that he wants people to think about it.  Not everyone does, however.
(Though Brian's songs are often if not always at their best when they do speak in one way or another about this; so "Love and Mercy" is both music and it is also, in my opinion, at root about this issue. Same with, e.g., "Good Kind of Love.")

What they did to him then was not only immoral (IMO) but illegal (factually).

Hmm. Illegal? I doubt that. Was what Murry was doing in the 1940s and 1950s illegal? Can't imagine him being prosecuted for loving his children and sacrificing for them.  For that matter, it also would have been awfully difficult to successfully prosecute Eugene Landy in the 1980s or 1990s.


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« Reply #443 on: April 17, 2019, 10:42:54 AM »

I listened to the interview of Rocky and Ron. It seems that Rocky was the only one with a decent knowledge of the group.  I am probably more sympathetic to Rocky than most here. Though I disagree with he and Stan using aggression against 2 other guys with the same addictions,  and I agree that Brian needed real medical and psychological help. Perhaps Marilyn was blinded by her love for Brian that she didn't want him to have to go to a mental hospital. As it states in the book. Perhaps he is more positive about Mike and negative about Dennis and Carl than most of us are. But we have to understand the context of the time he was working for Brian. All 3 Wilson's were a mess! Mike and Al were the more responsible ones at that time. I must also state that Rocky did also say that Mike could be an egotistical rock star, as was his experience with many rock stars he met. He also talked about how sad he was when he discovered Dennis died. He mentioned that Stephen Love had told him to remember what good things they did for the band. I do honestly believe that Stan and Rocky,  though flawed actually loved Brian and did it for the right reasons. Unlike Eugene Landy, who seemed to have other motives. There is absolutely no excuse for Rocky knocking out Carl, or Stan and Rocky beating up Dennis! Unfortunately,  Rocky is still proud of those things, saying that it was tough love and they helped save Brian. I would say, Stan and Rocky were athletes and thus had that Bob Knight, head coach tough love attitude.
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"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #444 on: April 17, 2019, 10:50:05 AM »

When Stephen took over the reins and replaced Nick Grillo as manager in April, 1972, momentum was finally building as the Beach Boys’ concert tours became increasingly popular. One of Stephen’s first major decisions was to start a repayment program from the band to Brian and Marilyn for $330,000 they’d poured into the group over the previous few years (well over two million dollars in today’s money). Stephen had Brian’s back. When all the money was eventually repaid, Marilyn gratefully told Stephen, “Thanks for looking after us.”

Brian cried when he signed the CBS contract. Could he miraculously create another hit record? For Brian, the thought was painful and frightening; he really wanted no part of fame or success again. After all, look what it had brought him before, nothing but heartache and disappointment. Brian had been a broken man for almost a decade.

Did he have the mettle to put his fragile self, his talent, and his soul on the line again? That was the multi-million-dollar question. We were going to see if Stephen could prop Brian up, with my help and Stan’s, and get the golden goose to produce a hit record that would resonate with the times.

A lot had happened during the years that Brian had been in bed, not writing music, totally withdrawn from the band. Cocaine and heroin had become his drugs of choice. He would call his dealers at all hours, day or night, and tell them there was a thousand dollars in the mailbox (that always guaranteed a quick delivery). Brian was a physical and emotional wreck. At his peak weight, he carried over 300 pounds on his 6-foot, 3-inch frame, had greasy hair down past his shoulders, a scraggly beard, unclipped toenails, nicotine-stained fingers, and went unbathed for days, sometimes weeks at a time.

To further complicate the challenges he faced, Brian heard voices on a regular basis, voices sometimes telling him to harm people, or that people were about to harm him.
...
. He was in the throes of addiction, a seemingly hopeless lost cause, and he’d been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. He had absolutely no interest in life, love, music or anything of value. Being a productive member of society was dead last on Brian’s list of priorities.
...
He was a defeated shell of a man, simply waiting to die. If ever there was a modern-day tragic Shakespearean character, Brian filled the role. He had, in the vernacular of surfers, wiped out.
...
Psychologist Eugene Landy was hired for the first time in 1975, but he was fired by Stephen after his fees climbed to over $22,000 a month. Marilyn reached the end of her rope in 1976, when she felt Brian was a danger to himself and to the family. She threatened to have him committed to a mental institution.
...
Stephen pleaded with Marilyn to delay committing Brian and to give it one more try, take one last chance to save Brian. He asked her permission to hire his younger brother, Stan, to enter their home and drag Brian out of bed—against his will, if necessary—to try and save Brian.
...
Marilyn would always push back. “You either do what Stan tells you to do, or you’re going to the mental hospital.”

Clearly, Stan needed more backup in the extremely demanding, nearly impossible task of saving a lost soul who would go to any length to get drugs. That’s when Stan suggested to Stephen that they bring me aboard to help.
...
Stephen’s last-ditch effort to avoid institutionalizing Brian worked, despite some surprising actions by Brian’s own brothers, and despite every wily effort Brian made to get drugs. Brian did come back from the edge, and Stephen’s "Brian’s Back" campaign made the band richer than it had been in its heyday in the Sixties.
This was an interesting thread.
To add to the comments about  the factual inaccuracies and the heroism of Mike Love, I would like to add the following thoughts:
1. If you feel that for legal reasons you can’t write an honest book, the ethical thing to do is not write it, and maybe write an article about the legal pressure to be either dishonest or silent.
2. Co-writing a nonfiction book behooves you to research the subject and fact-check.
3. The above quote recounts what was my main problem with Rocky before: the incredible inhumanity with which Brian Wilson was treated and the continued defense of it. It is clear from the set up that Brian Wilson has enough money to get proper treatment. It is also clear from the entire narrative that money for other members of the band  was the motivation behind Stephen Love’s and the other participants’ actions toward B Wilson, despite their justifications. The excerpt makes clear that all understood that he was suffering from severe mental illness, yet they decided to put him, at threat of physical abuse, in a stressful and damaging situation. To feign, among all the evidence of being motivated by finances, that the purpose was to save his life is pure gaslighting and justification for immoral exploitation of an extremely damaged and vulnerable person.
What they did to him then was not only immoral (IMO) but illegal (factually).


Thanks Emily - good to see you here.

Okay, I've avoided this thread for very painful reasons. But as I watch the shell of Notre Dame de Paris in flames, I'm just hoping we focus on the beauty of humanity and not dwell on all the horrible mistakes that have been made along the way, particularly around our treasured creator of beauty, Brian. This was a horrible time in Brian's life. The people who were in a position to help Brian didn't know what they didn't know. My suggestion that Brian meet with Jolly West at UCLA, thanks to my friend David Leaf, was met with condescension, not by Stan and Rocky, but by Steve Korthof. I blame none of them. I had no one to talk to because I had no respect. I suspect this was to do with people's imaginary ideas of who I was and why I was there. While I wasn't grabbing for the money like some, I just wasn't tough enough. I have to take responsibility for not having the confidence to insist on what was best for Brian.  I guess we were all just doing the best we could at the time.

So Brian got Landy for all those years (again) until Melinda went to the same group at UCLA many years later, again at David's suggestion. I'm not angry at the folks who didn't know who and what Brian needed, I'm just sad at it all. I've lost my anger and self-righteousness over this, since none of it matters in the end. I feel certain that all of the "tell all" books will sink into oblivion and Brian's music will live on. Nobody can write a tell-all book because no one knows "it all." I guess some of them are well-intended, but people can't avoid their self-serving POV because that's how we're made. If I wrote one, it wouldn't be accurate either. It's not possible.

I wish all of these people well. I guess they're still just doing the best they can. Can we just let the music speak?

Works for me.
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« Reply #445 on: April 17, 2019, 11:22:17 AM »

The people who were in a position to help Brian didn't know what they didn't know.
Accurate, but...

I'm not angry at the folks who didn't know who and what Brian needed, I'm just sad at it all.

...it's not just an issue of not knowing who and what he needed, it's an issue of being constitutionally unable to know - to ever know, and therefore, refusing to know. The people who were in the "position to help" Brian could never help, ever.  The story in its totality (encompassing 1942 - the present day) all but proves that. 

It might be said that before someone can helped, there ought to be an accurate accounting of the problem to be addressed - a diagnosis (pathology and etiology, whatever you want to call it). Think of a person on an operating table, but the surgeon doesn't know what's wrong with him (if anything) and he doesn't know why "the patient" is exhibiting certain symptoms, but the surgeon just starts hacking away.  That's basically what happened to Brian, it's extremely common in mental health both in Brian's era, throughout the past and right up to today. The reason for this is because we refuse to accept the very same things that the organization, in this case, could not accept, and therefore remained blind to.  Therefore Brian was on his own, as most people similarly situated are.  Only he could do something about it, only he could help himself (curiously Dennis Wilson says something to this effect about Brian in his radio interview with Fornatale).  Some make it, some don't.

The Brian Wilson story is unique not because of what happened to him, but because he is famous; I know of no other public figure whose life took the path that Brian's took and played out with the same dynamics and outcome - for such a long period of time, and more or less in public.  But again, what happened to Brian happens to people all the time - there can be differences in degree and in form, but in substance the same thing.

Can we just let the music speak?

No, actually, for the reasons above. The non-musical story of Brian Wilson is too significant, insofar as it involves man's "mental illness" problem - what is the problem, why does the problem exist, and what can be done about it. Brian asks this question in his recent book: "what is mental illness?" I personally believe that he wants people to think about it.  Not everyone does, however.
(Though Brian's songs are often if not always at their best when they do speak in one way or another about this; so "Love and Mercy" is both music and it is also, in my opinion, at root about this issue. Same with, e.g., "Good Kind of Love.")

What they did to him then was not only immoral (IMO) but illegal (factually).

Hmm. Illegal? I doubt that. Was what Murry was doing in the 1940s and 1950s illegal? Can't imagine him being prosecuted for loving his children and sacrificing for them.  For that matter, it also would have been awfully difficult to successfully prosecute Eugene Landy in the 1980s or 1990s.




Actually, I don't disagree with anything you said. UCLA had a team back in the late 70's-early 80's that was considering how to balance creative needs such as Brian's with his emotional comfort level.  I do think it's a tragedy that no one with any power around Brian would listen to this. To put it simply, there was such amazing creativity, surrounded by seemingly impossible ignorance levels from many people, along with their viewing Brian as a money-maker. For some reason when I tried to share the info about the UCLA team, I was told that Brian's entertainment attorney would take care of who would be Brian's doctor. Given that this person who was being paid to care for Brian didn't seem to know much, that may have just been nonsense.

I was interviewed by Brian's doctor at the time, and he point-blank told me that he didn't want Brian as a patient, but that he was essentially begged to treat him. Clearly, there was no affinity between Brian and the doctor, and his tricky diagnosis was mishandled for years by a number of doctors.

My main point was that, terrible things happened back then that brought Landy back into the picture. The good guys finally won many years later. I'm just hoping we can start pursuing something more healing at this point so many years later. I desperately want people to learn better how to deal with these illnesses. I'm not dismissing that, and I believe Brian's honesty and support of mental health initiatives, plus the "Love and Mercy" film will help take care of that.

I confess to not having read Rocky's book. I was sent a copy of what I assume was one of the final edits, but I couldn't bring myself to relive all that, particularly from that POV. If you've read the book and you think it's destructive to Brian's well-being, or that of others, I offer my apologies. I just think shaming people who have done stupid or terrible things is counter-productive. Maybe a rebuttal by a professional (possibly you're one?) would be a better approach.

It's so many years later. We all need to heal and move on.

Yes, hold people accountable, but forgiveness is a powerful force. I know Brian, when someone frustratedly and honestly asked Brian why he was treated so foolishly and destructively for so many years, replied that the person in power was "just dumb." It was said sympathetically. I guess maybe I'm following that thought on his part.

Thanks for your comments though. I'm guessing I needed to clarify my position.
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« Reply #446 on: April 17, 2019, 01:16:02 PM »

Beautifully written posts here from Debbie, Jack and Magic which have rescued this thread--thanks to you all. Commerce gets in the way of art so much of the time and in so many insidious ways--making it possible for someone with Brian's gifts to be unsure of his worth if he's not at the top of the charts, even when he knows that he should follow his artist's heart. That contradiction, along with a predisposition for emotional fragility, added to the pressure cooker of an extended family that had all their eggs in one basket and had nowhere else to go, kept Brian in limbo for an eternity. Brian made some wonderful, personal music in 1968 that was an attempt for a "middle way" between the grandiosity of SMILE and the R&B redirection in WILD HONEY, but it fell into an abyss commercially and it left Brian bereft. Once the early songs became nostalgic hits in 1974, it must have been a double whammy for him: with the band working on its own and the complicated relationship with Murry over upon his death, Brian may have experienced a profound identity crisis. Then came the counter-efforts to "save" him with Landy I and the "jock patrol." He had a spurt of quirky creativity with LOVE YOU, then drifted back as the revival of the band's fortunes slipped through their fingers. Then the events that led to Landy II and the surreal decade that finally led to Brian being allowed to confront his demons on his own terms. He really needed someone like Melinda for that, and thank God he got that.

I think much of the hostility in this thread is the idea of someone making money off other people's misery and hard times. Not that Rocky or Ron will make a lot--that book is not going to sell in quantities remotely comparable to the two recent autobiographies. It's just unseemly and I think most of us find it distasteful. As Debbie says, it's the music that will last.

I look forward to the new documentary with the hope that it will blend the music with reflections on life and memories of those who are no longer with us. Brian's choice of "Long Promised Road" as the title and as a featured song suggests that he'll spend some of the film paying tribute to his brothers, who also deserve to be remembered for their talents and achievements. That would be the best way to counter the negativity about them that wound up surfacing in Rocky's book.
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« Reply #447 on: April 17, 2019, 02:24:15 PM »

Beautifully written posts here from Debbie, Jack and Magic which have rescued this thread--thanks to you all. Commerce gets in the way of art so much of the time and in so many insidious ways--making it possible for someone with Brian's gifts to be unsure of his worth if he's not at the top of the charts, even when he knows that he should follow his artist's heart. That contradiction, along with a predisposition for emotional fragility, added to the pressure cooker of an extended family that had all their eggs in one basket and had nowhere else to go, kept Brian in limbo for an eternity. Brian made some wonderful, personal music in 1968 that was an attempt for a "middle way" between the grandiosity of SMILE and the R&B redirection in WILD HONEY, but it fell into an abyss commercially and it left Brian bereft. Once the early songs became nostalgic hits in 1974, it must have been a double whammy for him: with the band working on its own and the complicated relationship with Murry over upon his death, Brian may have experienced a profound identity crisis. Then came the counter-efforts to "save" him with Landy I and the "jock patrol." He had a spurt of quirky creativity with LOVE YOU, then drifted back as the revival of the band's fortunes slipped through their fingers. Then the events that led to Landy II and the surreal decade that finally led to Brian being allowed to confront his demons on his own terms. He really needed someone like Melinda for that, and thank God he got that.

I think much of the hostility in this thread is the idea of someone making money off other people's misery and hard times. Not that Rocky or Ron will make a lot--that book is not going to sell in quantities remotely comparable to the two recent autobiographies. It's just unseemly and I think most of us find it distasteful. As Debbie says, it's the music that will last.

I look forward to the new documentary with the hope that it will blend the music with reflections on life and memories of those who are no longer with us. Brian's choice of "Long Promised Road" as the title and as a featured song suggests that he'll spend some of the film paying tribute to his brothers, who also deserve to be remembered for their talents and achievements. That would be the best way to counter the negativity about them that wound up surfacing in Rocky's book.

Amen, and thanks. Your summary is as perfect as I can imagine about what Brian experienced.

I've battled with my own anger and grief over all of this for decades and, in the end, I was mostly angry at myself for not finding a way to help Brian out of that quagmire before Landy II nearly killed him. I take comfort in the fact that I made sure that I had good allies who promised to looked after Brian as best they could during his Landy um, incarceration - whatever it was. They won in the end through their connections with Gloria and Melinda - and finally gaining access to that draft Landy will (where he got nearly everything if something should happen to Brian) that motivated the family to act (the only ones who could).

Yes, there's a (huge) story here. I have no desire to blame anyone, but whatever could help others who struggle I'd love to see made public. Quite frankly, there were several people who were too "dumb' and too scared for their own lifestyles to be in charge, but they were. That's why I view this as more of a tragedy than a need for an expose - just letting the music heal seems like a good answer.

I've only heard great things about the people working on the documentary, so I'm also optimistic, too.

Thanks again.

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« Reply #448 on: April 17, 2019, 04:16:56 PM »

 
I take comfort in the fact that I made sure that I had good allies who promised to looked after Brian as best they could during his Landy um, incarceration - whatever it was. They won in the end through their connections with Gloria and Melinda - and finally gaining access to that draft Landy will (where he got nearly everything if something should happen to Brian) that motivated the family to act (the only ones who could).


How horrifying. I wonder if Brian's will was ever actually amended to make Landy the sole (or main) benefactor, or if it was just on its way to being amended before it got stopped. And if it had actually got amended, would there have been a way to change it (barring Brian himself making that change)?

I just watched the 1945 film "Gaslight" today, and it almost feels like Landy took a page out of the sick, sociopathic behavior of the husband in that film. What a sick bastard.

Truth be told, it almost feels like Landy was watching old movies, or episodes of Dallas, and hatched the will idea based on plotlines he'd seen. I wonder...
What a steaming piece of poo that man was.
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« Reply #449 on: April 17, 2019, 05:05:34 PM »

 
I take comfort in the fact that I made sure that I had good allies who promised to looked after Brian as best they could during his Landy um, incarceration - whatever it was. They won in the end through their connections with Gloria and Melinda - and finally gaining access to that draft Landy will (where he got nearly everything if something should happen to Brian) that motivated the family to act (the only ones who could).


How horrifying. I wonder if Brian's will was ever actually amended to make Landy the sole (or main) benefactor, or if it was just on its way to being amended before it got stopped. And if it had actually got amended, would there have been a way to change it (barring Brian himself making that change)?

I just watched the 1945 film "Gaslight" today, and it almost feels like Landy took a page out of the sick, sociopathic behavior of the husband in that film. What a sick bastard.

Truth be told, it almost feels like Landy was watching old movies, or episodes of Dallas, and hatched the will idea based on plotlines he'd seen. I wonder...
What a steaming piece of poo that man was.

It's an interesting, horrifying thought, huh? I think the will was stopped in its draft form, as I understand it. I think someone "accidentally" left it in a copier and someone else found it. Landy always wanted to be the "showbiz psych" as best I can tell. He was a sick, sick man. I'm sitting here right now praying for such a whistle blower in some scarier circumstances, but that would have to be discussed in the Sandbox.
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