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Author Topic: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published  (Read 32461 times)
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« Reply #400 on: March 05, 2019, 11:52:14 AM »

What a fucking hack. A person with a long standing in the entertainment industry would know the names of every major music publication without fault, foreign or domestic.  LOL You say "bring it", huh? Sure. I've got a long list of, shall we say, "issues" with your book. Are you prepared to listen to and accept the corrections in a polite and calm manner, and admit fault with each issue?
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« Reply #401 on: March 05, 2019, 12:12:03 PM »

Ron, you've made your points. We've made ours. Some of us will buy Rocky's book, some won't. Some will wait until it shows up at a price that we feel is more appropriate to pay for the accounts of someone whose biggest claim to fame is cold-cocking Carl Wilson, who had more talent in his little finger than Rocky has in his entire body--which very likely the case for you and me as well. Were the BBs messed up in the late 70s? You better believe it. Did Mike Love help keep the band alive? Sure he did. But in the years after Rocky's "services" were no longer required, Carl Wilson was the musical anchor of the band until he became too ill to continue. It's pretty clear that the BBs were running on fumes from 1998-2012 until they agreed to reunite for a 50th tour. From 1998 to 2012 Brian Wilson was out touring with his own band, and THAT was at least as important to the viability of a reunion as anything Mike did. Without Brian, a 50th anniversary show would have been a total joke and a complete non-starter.

If you can't see that, then I think all of us here, regardless of our varying levels of hostility to Rocky and--by proxy--to you, as you continue to stir the pot for little or no good reason, should just walk away from this thread and chalk things up to the fact that we tried to set you straight about the actual history of the band. We tried--and failed. Time to for everyone to move on: there's nothing left to say--or see--here. Best of luck with your product, but be grateful that the sons of Carl Wilson are mellow and tolerant guys and will likely consider the source once they become aware of how badly their father was treated in the pages of Rocky's book. If it were Mike you'd done that to, you'd very likely open your door one day and find someone standing there with a subpoena in his hand.

Couldn't have said it any better myself.
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« Reply #402 on: March 05, 2019, 01:40:23 PM »

This thread is turning into "Groundhog Day". 

Instead of Sonny and Cher, we get endless repeats of "I've got tons of experience in show biz, my book is great, if you don't agree you haven't read it"

"I've got you, babe!"
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« Reply #403 on: March 05, 2019, 02:12:42 PM »

This thread is turning into "Groundhog Day". 

Instead of Sonny and Cher, we get endless repeats of "I've got tons of experience in show biz, my book is great, if you don't agree you haven't read it"

"I've got you, babe!"
It's mind of a weird, morbid fascination, isn't it?  Grin We keep coming back, thinking that one day he'll have changed his tune, or just give up trying and just admit that not one single page was proofread or fact checked in any way.
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« Reply #404 on: March 05, 2019, 04:03:32 PM »

This thread is turning into "Groundhog Day". 

Instead of Sonny and Cher, we get endless repeats of "I've got tons of experience in show biz, my book is great, if you don't agree you haven't read it"

"I've got you, babe!"
It's mind of a weird, morbid fascination, isn't it?  Grin We keep coming back, thinking that one day he'll have changed his tune, or just give up trying and just admit that not one single page was proofread or fact checked in any way.

It's the same way we read Mike interviews hoping he will admit to acting crappily to his bandmates without resorting to whataboutisms. It ain't gonna happen, but we hold out a sliver of hope that self-reflection will occur. We're clearly nuts.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #405 on: March 05, 2019, 04:37:57 PM »

One thing I'll say... if the shoe was on the other foot, and this was about a different band that was very, very dear to Reynaldo's heart... not just a band he simply "liked" and was familiar with... but a band he had many years of *real* emotional investment in as a huge superfan, and a deep familiarity of the history (the good and the bad)... if a book like this was written about that band, he'd probably probably pick it apart just as much and grumble a ton at the author, if he read a chapter that he believed grossly distorted the truth, and if said chapter appeared completely and utterly inconsistent with the original message postings by the person from whose perspective the book was from.

It'd be nice for him to just admit that's the case, because it would at least add a touch of honesty to this whole thing. However, I can understand he's been put in a position to defend the indefensible, and is trying to push a damaged product (by reasons that are presumably not his fault or doing).

I'm betting that everyone associated with the book wishes that Rocky had never made those posts on this board. I mean they really, really must wish that hadn't happened. If those posts had never been made, and this book just suddenly appeared out of the blue, it'd still be thought of as a gross distortion of facts by most fans (albeit still probably a book with some interesting never-before-heard anecdotes)... but absent those posts, we wouldn't have had a peek behind the curtain to know that there's absolutely no logical way in the universe that some major behind-the-scenes hijinks didn't occur to allow a book to be released with content that in no way, shape or form resembles what it was originally purported to be by Rocky.

I mean not even a little.

That's the thing that people can't wrap their heads around.  It's not just that the "I've got dirt on Mike" stuff simply vanished from the book, but the additional factor that takes it to the next level is that it takes the next step to overtly praise Mike at every twist and turn, all while smack talking all other members. I mean, c'mon. We're not born yesterday.

Sort of reminds me of the Lance Armstrong documentary "The Armstrong Lie", where the filmmaker started out making a benign documentary chronicling the life and times of Armstrong, only to have the entire focus shift to his lies that became an unfortunate public reality during the filming of the doc. None of that could have been predicted at the onset of filming. The doc was newly framed as not just a doc about Lance that happened to have this lie be a small part of the story, but the lie became THE story of the doc.

In this case, there are reasons (which we can hypothesize about, but don't anyone say it simply just happened for no reason) that THE story of this book completely changed from its original intent have caused the book to be something 100% different than it once was. Rocky's original intent as evidenced by his posts on this board was obviously *completely* inconsistent with what has been released from this book so far. Yes, legal threats are a real thing. I doubt there's a person here who doesn't get that concept. But so should an understanding (by the author) also be a real thing, where he should understand that fans aren't gonna be oblivious to the ridiculously changed tone of the book, and won't take it seriously as a result. It falls under an "it is what it is" umbrella, and there's no real way to defend the change of tone.

At best, the book can be pushed as a "the vast majority of what the original intent was has been completely changed for legal issues that cannot be discussed, please put horse blinders on and don't look at Rocky's original posts when reading the many chapters of the book... but hey, at least there's some new pictures and anecdotes that might make some hardcore fans want to shell out some coin to see". I mean, that's not being harsh, that's an honest assessment of the best case scenario for anyone to push this book as.

It truly just is what it is. Ultimately I'm very much okay with never hearing these awful stories that Rocky apparently had to tell. Sometimes the less you know, the better. I continue to enjoy Mike's work as an artist, and I'll defend his talent to those who hate him so much they are blind to conceding he contributed some amazing stuff to the band.

But all the same, I cannot truly respect a book which has content that's obviously been essentially tampered with. And it blows my mind that anyone - even the author himself - would continue to defend it, even if it's simply his job. I have no ill will towards Reynaldo, hopefully he will understand why fans' grumbles are legit, and why the endless defending is a fruitless endeavor.
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« Reply #406 on: March 05, 2019, 04:46:27 PM »

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« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 04:48:34 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #407 on: March 05, 2019, 04:48:13 PM »

deleted duplicate post (d'oh!)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 11:41:37 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #408 on: March 06, 2019, 11:41:44 AM »

« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 01:43:06 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #409 on: March 06, 2019, 06:51:43 PM »



Bahahaha!  LOL
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« Reply #410 on: March 07, 2019, 09:18:16 AM »

One thing I'll say... if the shoe was on the other foot, and this was about a different band that was very, very dear to Reynaldo's heart... not just a band he simply "liked" and was familiar with... but a band he had many years of *real* emotional investment in as a huge superfan, and a deep familiarity of the history (the good and the bad)... if a book like this was written about that band, he'd probably probably pick it apart just as much and grumble a ton at the author, if he read a chapter that he believed grossly distorted the truth, and if said chapter appeared completely and utterly inconsistent with the original message postings by the person from whose perspective the book was from.

It'd be nice for him to just admit that's the case, because it would at least add a touch of honesty to this whole thing. However, I can understand he's been put in a position to defend the indefensible, and is trying to push a damaged product (by reasons that are presumably not his fault or doing).

I'm betting that everyone associated with the book wishes that Rocky had never made those posts on this board. I mean they really, really must wish that hadn't happened. If those posts had never been made, and this book just suddenly appeared out of the blue, it'd still be thought of as a gross distortion of facts by most fans (albeit still probably a book with some interesting never-before-heard anecdotes)... but absent those posts, we wouldn't have had a peek behind the curtain to know that there's absolutely no logical way in the universe that some major behind-the-scenes hijinks didn't occur to allow a book to be released with content that in no way, shape or form resembles what it was originally purported to be by Rocky.

I mean not even a little.

That's the thing that people can't wrap their heads around.  It's not just that the "I've got dirt on Mike" stuff simply vanished from the book, but the additional factor that takes it to the next level is that it takes the next step to overtly praise Mike at every twist and turn, all while smack talking all other members. I mean, c'mon. We're not born yesterday.

Sort of reminds me of the Lance Armstrong documentary "The Armstrong Lie", where the filmmaker started out making a benign documentary chronicling the life and times of Armstrong, only to have the entire focus shift to his lies that became an unfortunate public reality during the filming of the doc. None of that could have been predicted at the onset of filming. The doc was newly framed as not just a doc about Lance that happened to have this lie be a small part of the story, but the lie became THE story of the doc.

In this case, there are reasons (which we can hypothesize about, but don't anyone say it simply just happened for no reason) that THE story of this book completely changed from its original intent have caused the book to be something 100% different than it once was. Rocky's original intent as evidenced by his posts on this board was obviously *completely* inconsistent with what has been released from this book so far. Yes, legal threats are a real thing. I doubt there's a person here who doesn't get that concept. But so should an understanding (by the author) also be a real thing, where he should understand that fans aren't gonna be oblivious to the ridiculously changed tone of the book, and won't take it seriously as a result. It falls under an "it is what it is" umbrella, and there's no real way to defend the change of tone.

At best, the book can be pushed as a "the vast majority of what the original intent was has been completely changed for legal issues that cannot be discussed, please put horse blinders on and don't look at Rocky's original posts when reading the many chapters of the book... but hey, at least there's some new pictures and anecdotes that might make some hardcore fans want to shell out some coin to see". I mean, that's not being harsh, that's an honest assessment of the best case scenario for anyone to push this book as.

It truly just is what it is. Ultimately I'm very much okay with never hearing these awful stories that Rocky apparently had to tell. Sometimes the less you know, the better. I continue to enjoy Mike's work as an artist, and I'll defend his talent to those who hate him so much they are blind to conceding he contributed some amazing stuff to the band.

But all the same, I cannot truly respect a book which has content that's obviously been essentially tampered with. And it blows my mind that anyone - even the author himself - would continue to defend it, even if it's simply his job. I have no ill will towards Reynaldo, hopefully he will understand why fans' grumbles are legit, and why the endless defending is a fruitless endeavor.

Well said.
Re: Reynaldo, You can sort of piece together how this all unfolded. Maybe he's a guy who gets brought in to work on this book. He has a basic knowledge of the band, but now he is working with people who 'were' part of the inner circle, so he makes the assumption that they have all the facts. Then he gets pointed to this site (I'm envisioning Rocky telling him how he had '100,000 followers' here) He starts realizing something isn't right, but what can he do? To discredit the book at this point is not a great marketing move..he's basically screwed.

Re: 180. Stan's contribution obviously is the window into the 'why' I suppose. Stan was getting skewered as much if not more by Rocky in his final postings. So something changed in the last couple of years.

Just rambling here, but if Brian's people really wanted to look under a few 'rocks' (pardon the pun) could they look at Rocky's original posts? Yes they would surmise he might be nuts, but he seemed pretty adamant Stan had taped Mike, and made reference I believe that Stan taped many conversations (might lend some credibility) Is that in itself enough to start to dig and see if such a tape did at one point exist. Could people be made to testify under oath?
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« Reply #411 on: March 07, 2019, 09:30:35 AM »

It's pretty clear that the BBs were running on fumes from 1998-2012

Oh, I know. I mean Sounds of Summer only managed to sell 3 Million copies.
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« Reply #412 on: March 07, 2019, 12:23:00 PM »

It's pretty clear that the BBs were running on fumes from 1998-2012

Oh, I know. I mean Sounds of Summer only managed to sell 3 Million copies.

Obviously I'm not Mr. Malcolm but I'm pretty sure he didn't mean The Beach Boys as a brand but more as a current, active band that tours and makes music.
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« Reply #413 on: March 07, 2019, 08:59:29 PM »

I have a question.  Has anyone that is making accusations against this book actually read it? It doesn't seem that way? The negative things about Mike haven't vanished as some suggest. Mike was in unison with Carl and and Dennis to fire Stephen Love as the manager. Rocky talks about how Stephen wasn't a pushover manager and sent a telegram to Mike that offended Mike. Nothing that bad in the telegram, but rock stars have big egos. So yes, Rocky did say something negative about Mike. Perhaps some of the outtakes were edited due to living people not wanting certain things said about them
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"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #414 on: March 07, 2019, 09:43:32 PM »

We should keep in mind , the years that Rocky is covering were the lowest point for Carl. So the fact that he didn't give high praise to Carl, may have been his personal experience.  Dennis was doing well, according to Jon Stebbins from 74-76 before he began to decline again. 76 was when Rocky was hired. So between 77-79, I would have to call Mike the stabilizing force at the time. Which is why Al sided with him. No doubt Carl was talented and 99% of the time a sweet guy. Not that I condone punching people,  but sometimes the best of us deserve to be punched. Phil Spector,  John Phillips,  Michael Jackson,  Kanye West, all very talented. But at times deserved to be punched.  Again,  not supporting the punching, just saying....
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"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #415 on: March 08, 2019, 01:03:01 AM »

Well I'm a Drummer in a BBs Tribute Band, maybe I should be worried that I am on the Rocky list for punching Ummmmm don't think so  LOL
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« Reply #416 on: March 08, 2019, 06:30:47 AM »

Well I'm a Drummer in a BBs Tribute Band, maybe I should be worried that I am on the Rocky list for punching Ummmmm don't think so  LOL

I'm sure you would be fine as long as you aren't trying to give Brian drugs. 😁
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"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #417 on: March 08, 2019, 07:11:10 AM »

Well I'm a Drummer in a BBs Tribute Band, maybe I should be worried that I am on the Rocky list for punching Ummmmm don't think so  LOL

I'm sure you would be fine as long as you aren't trying to give Brian drugs. 😁

What if he is trying to give the Tribute Brian drugs?
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« Reply #418 on: March 08, 2019, 10:20:50 AM »

We should keep in mind , the years that Rocky is covering were the lowest point for Carl. So the fact that he didn't give high praise to Carl, may have been his personal experience.  Dennis was doing well, according to Jon Stebbins from 74-76 before he began to decline again. 76 was when Rocky was hired. So between 77-79, I would have to call Mike the stabilizing force at the time. Which is why Al sided with him. No doubt Carl was talented and 99% of the time a sweet guy. Not that I condone punching people,  but sometimes the best of us deserve to be punched. Phil Spector,  John Phillips,  Michael Jackson,  Kanye West, all very talented. But at times deserved to be punched.  Again,  not supporting the punching, just saying....

Bruce was brought back in for the LA LP because everyone else was incapable of getting the production together. EVERYONE, including Mike, who was off doing his solo stuff. The band had to raid material from Dennis' BAMBU project to get enough songs for the LP. Nobody was a stabilizing force at that time. After all this went down, Carl cleaned up and left the band for more than a year in the early 80s.

The book is a lame attempt to cash in on a very painful time for just about everyone in the BBs. You're better off sticking with Stephen Gaines, who is at least even-handed in his depiction of the drift and misdirection that plagued the band in their "CBS years."

Your list of "acceptable punchees" is grotesquely hilarious in that you've lumped Carl Wilson in with a murderer, two child molesters and a psychopath. Maybe Jonah and Justyn should sue YOU.
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« Reply #419 on: March 08, 2019, 11:23:07 AM »

While never condoning violence, you have to put the Ďpunchí into context. Here you had a bunch of males a long way from home for an extended period. Friendships are made and there are falling outs. They are traveling, working hard and playing hard with little sleep. Some large egos, drugs and alcohol. Itís a recipe for trouble and Iím surprised it never happened more than we know.
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« Reply #420 on: March 08, 2019, 02:56:53 PM »

We should keep in mind , the years that Rocky is covering were the lowest point for Carl. So the fact that he didn't give high praise to Carl, may have been his personal experience.  Dennis was doing well, according to Jon Stebbins from 74-76 before he began to decline again. 76 was when Rocky was hired. So between 77-79, I would have to call Mike the stabilizing force at the time. Which is why Al sided with him. No doubt Carl was talented and 99% of the time a sweet guy. Not that I condone punching people,  but sometimes the best of us deserve to be punched. Phil Spector,  John Phillips,  Michael Jackson,  Kanye West, all very talented. But at times deserved to be punched.  Again,  not supporting the punching, just saying....

Bruce was brought back in for the LA LP because everyone else was incapable of getting the production together. EVERYONE, including Mike, who was off doing his solo stuff. The band had to raid material from Dennis' BAMBU project to get enough songs for the LP. Nobody was a stabilizing force at that time. After all this went down, Carl cleaned up and left the band for more than a year in the early 80s.

The book is a lame attempt to cash in on a very painful time for just about everyone in the BBs. You're better off sticking with Stephen Gaines, who is at least even-handed in his depiction of the drift and misdirection that plagued the band in their "CBS years."

Your list of "acceptable punchees" is grotesquely hilarious in that you've lumped Carl Wilson in with a murderer, two child molesters and a psychopath. Maybe Jonah and Justyn should sue YOU.

That's why in my initial post, I was curious if others like Marilyn,  Stephen, Stan, etc remember things the same. I don't claim to know the truth. I do feel like he is being fair in the context of the time he was working in. He hasn't said all good about Mike or all bad about Carl and Dennis.  In fact, other than drugs, his opinions on the guys are about the same. When I said Mike held the band together,  perhaps I meant that he, along with Al, were the most dependable during the period Rocky worked with them. Only if you are anti Mike would you think he is one sided. This has nothing to do with talent. It was a guys experience working with Brian and his relationship with the other guys. He hasn't really given much opinion on the guys individual talents except for Brian as a genius.
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"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #421 on: March 08, 2019, 02:59:46 PM »

While never condoning violence, you have to put the Ďpunchí into context. Here you had a bunch of males a long way from home for an extended period. Friendships are made and there are falling outs. They are traveling, working hard and playing hard with little sleep. Some large egos, drugs and alcohol. Itís a recipe for trouble and Iím surprised it never happened more than we know.

Exactly! These Dennis and Carl aren't women! They are men. I bet if Dennis punched Mike or Rocky, these same people would be applauding! Not that I would support that either.
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"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #422 on: March 08, 2019, 03:33:30 PM »

While never condoning violence, you have to put the Ďpunchí into context. Here you had a bunch of males a long way from home for an extended period. Friendships are made and there are falling outs. They are traveling, working hard and playing hard with little sleep. Some large egos, drugs and alcohol. Itís a recipe for trouble and Iím surprised it never happened more than we know.

Exactly! These Dennis and Carl aren't women! They are men. I bet if Dennis punched Mike or Rocky, these same people would be applauding! Not that I would support that either.

Pure crap...both/  Flush twice.
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« Reply #423 on: March 08, 2019, 05:13:55 PM »

In what way Lee? There have been posts agreeing with Dennis punching out Mike. Thatís ok because itís family against family, band mate against band mate? The roads a hard life. Itís ruined many a relationship and killed a few people along the way.
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« Reply #424 on: March 08, 2019, 08:37:23 PM »

In THIS way...Carl wasn't Dennis.  Carl was a gentle soul who  wasn't a warrior.  Carl chose NOT to attend in Vietnam.  He was never a typical 'one of the boys' kinda guy.   Carl was a creative musician.   And this big hulking 'Wheaties' eater cold cocks him?  It wasn't like Carl was trying to sneak a little crack into somebody's pipe.  He was 1/2 cut...3 sheets to the wind...schickered.    Hangin' out with that 'contingent'...I'd have been plowed too.  [daily]  Then along comes a dim-witted, morally challenged, jock-wearing 1/2 miler...ON THE PAYROLL...who decides he can just up and knock 'the boss' out cold 'cause he ran his mouth a little too far while he was obviously under the influence of too many drinky-poos...plus the medication for his REALLY BAD back?

Rocklette should have known his place...and someone should have, subsequently shown him the door and cut him loose then and there...leaving him to try and figure out what his next move would have been...down under.  If that had happened...he'd still be there.  And we wouldn't be here.  That little man couldn't rub two clues together to warm his bonnet on even a record setting scorcher of a day.  Ethically and literally...there's never been ANYONE home.  And we're here 'discussing' his wee booklet?  Whoever asked the apologist's question "did anybody read the book?" needs to soak his noggin in a big-ass bowl of Pamplin piss.  We all read enough to know that the only thing floating in this bowl are huge, fly attracting dollops of sea-worthy bull sh!t.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 08:41:09 PM by Lee Marshall » Logged

"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
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