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Author Topic: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published  (Read 44552 times)
Reynaldo
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« Reply #125 on: December 09, 2018, 06:37:22 AM »

Lee is da man!

Like it or hate it. Insult me, as you wish. However if you haven't read the entire book, you're just blowing smoke, aren't you?

If this all over one chapter, how can I take your insults seriously?  True enough, I strolled onto your turf as a Johnny come lately. However I've earned the right to call myself credible in Show biz. I've earned the right to have an opinion about Rocky's interaction with the band, and I'll stick to my guns about my work on the product.
It is after all, a product and I'm in the entertainment business. Stomp your feet and complain all you wish. I'm used to people from sniping from the sidelines. Comes with the territory.
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #126 on: December 09, 2018, 06:38:53 AM »

Mike Love is a snake who set you and Rocky up.
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And production aside, Id so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #127 on: December 09, 2018, 06:46:35 AM »

Mike Love is a snake who set you and Rocky up.

I repeat. I've never met Mike Love. Never talked to the man. My opinion of him comes from a life long career in sho biz. I'm hardly a big shot, but I know talent, I know management, I know the record and film business from the inside, from hard won lessons learned experientially in that field.
I'm not guessing any more than a world cup sailor would be guessing about a round the world sailing trip he was reviewing.

Nobody set me up.

Have you read the book or just the one chapter?
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #128 on: December 09, 2018, 06:48:00 AM »

From what Rocky teased here before you cleaned it up and made it coherent, it was crap...
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And production aside, Id so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #129 on: December 09, 2018, 07:02:33 AM »

Ron, if you post an excerpt from your book and the knowledgeable people on this forum find it overflowing with misconceptions and errors, what are we to think of the rest of the book?  In the parts we haven't read, do you correct the aforementioned misconceptions and errors?  Perhaps there is a subsequent chapter entitled "Correcting the Crap We Passed Off As FACT in an Earlier Chapter"...
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« Reply #130 on: December 09, 2018, 08:15:47 AM »


I'm curious. Have you seen more than the one chapter?


Yes I have.  I've seen your posts.  They bury you under an avalanche of misinformation, assumptions, preconceptions, and redacted sources of, in the final analyses, fact-free foolishness.  I don't give a flying nun whether or not you've spent time in show business.  That doesn't make you a writer, a researcher, credible or even honest.  Then you toss this sample chapter of yawn-inducing 'sycopathetic' and misconstrued 'gobbledeegoop' onto the 'pile' and have the audacity to suggest that it all magically, somehow, against all odds, gets 'better' .  The only way this gets better is if the book is used like an old Sears and Roebuck catalogue out in the hunting camp outhouse.  Go peddle your papers to the totally and completely uninformed.  Maybe you can pass this hogwash off on them.

This will be my last communication with you regarding this useless piece of sh!t you have the unmitigated audacity to refer to as a "book".  [good thing we didn't step in it.]
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« Reply #131 on: December 09, 2018, 08:23:11 AM »

Lets go get a beer with OSD!
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And production aside, Id so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #132 on: December 09, 2018, 08:31:16 AM »

Lets go get a beer with OSD!

 w00t! w00t!  and I'm pickin' up the tab!  Grin
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Reynaldo
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« Reply #133 on: December 09, 2018, 10:41:40 AM »


I'm curious. Have you seen more than the one chapter?


Yes I have.  I've seen your posts.  They bury you under an avalanche of misinformation, assumptions, preconceptions, and redacted sources of, in the final analyses, fact-free foolishness.  I don't give a flying nun whether or not you've spent time in show business.  That doesn't make you a writer, a researcher, credible or even honest.  Then you toss this sample chapter of yawn-inducing 'sycopathetic' and misconstrued 'gobbledeegoop' onto the 'pile' and have the audacity to suggest that it all magically, somehow, against all odds, gets 'better' .  The only way this gets better is if the book is used like an old Sears and Roebuck catalogue out in the hunting camp outhouse.  Go peddle your papers to the totally and completely uninformed.  Maybe you can pass this hogwash off on them.

Here's the entire quote regarding my suggestion that "contempt prior to investigation" is a sad way to roll, maybe you'll get the point.

 "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
     --HERBERT SPENCER


This will be my last communication with you regarding this useless piece of sh!t you have the unmitigated audacity to refer to as a "book".  [good thing we didn't step in it.]

You are guaranteed to stay small. To quote Bob Dylan, another one of my favorites. "He who is not busy being born is busy dying."

I'm sorry you won't check out the book. Your loss.

No hard feeling or insult absorbed over here. We're all entitled to our opinion. Your opinion about the book is an opinion about nothing since you haven't read it.
I was taught to be polite to strangers, and that's about as polite as I can be. I sincerely hope the rest of the Smile board, a knowledgeable and worthwhile bunch it seems, won't be jaundiced by your uninformed dismissal.
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« Reply #134 on: December 09, 2018, 10:49:38 AM »

Sorry Ron, I know your intentions are honourable BUT there are so many inaccuracies in the Chapter you posted , I literally gave up with the quote that Rhonda was the first No1 Huh So I Get Around didn't exist, sorry but a book about a bloke (who's credibility is questionable to say the least) has absolutely no interest in my world .
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« Reply #135 on: December 09, 2018, 11:17:45 AM »

Ron - I'm reposting this in case it got lost in the mix, or if you simply chose to ignore it and not comment that's fine too.

I have to say that I give a tip of the hat to Ron for coming in and joining the discussion, but after reading the excerpts posted so far, some of those statements are just completely wrong or out of line factually and otherwise.

As much as I respect the fact Ron is here taking the questions and comments about the book, some of the "facts" and statements seen so far simply do not line up with the actual facts and truth. And I wasn't going to go there, but some of the comments in the book's excerpts do indeed sound like either the nonsense written in Mike's 2005 lawsuit that got chucked out of every court that heard it, or even perhaps more blatant, some of the PR nonsense that has come from the Love group and his more ardent supporters and defenders in the past decade or more. Key phrases, comments, the wording, etc...it could be a press release.

And it's still baffling how a book could do a 180 degree flip in a few years to turn into a glowing praise of Mike Love. It's fine to praise Mike and his role in the band, but some of those quotes are the same kind of sycophantry that has been and usually gets debunked on arrival when it appears.




With that out of the way, I'd like to quote one excerpt you posted from the book with follow-up questions and observations if you'd choose to answer and dialogue on the topic:



Mike Love, the oldest Beach Boy, has a long and involved relationship with his younger cousin, Brian. They co-founded the Beach Boys, and for years cooperated on songwriting. Mike has his own variety of hardworking genius; hes the invaluable mixture of glue and sweat that held the band together for decades.

Mike has always been the dependable Beach Boy, sober and present through thick and thin and thousands of gigs. As the frontman and lead singer, he embodied the Beach Boys image with his voice and mesmerizing stage presence. The Beach Boys would have folded in 1964 without him, and hes kept the band on the road for well over 50 years.



My opinion: This is exactly the type of Mike Love hype that his PR machine (for lack of a better term) has been spreading in recent years, and which can be spotted in everything from local "weekender" type local newspapers promoting his gigs, to fan message boards, to social media, even onward and upward into published books and various bios and articles. In short, it's an overstatement to say the least. To say the worst, I won't go there - But it's easy to factually debunk this kind of PR hype and ballyhoo as exactly that. It's a shame because for all of the credits Mike genuinely gets and deserves, it's the overreaching and attempts to grab more credit and praise than might by due in reality that irks quite a few fans of the band.

With that said, Rocky was indeed here and posting actively around the end of 2015 into early 2016. While he was here, he even posted excerpts from what was then his manuscript of the "Wipeout" book, and would tease various parts of it and relate stories from the upcoming book. It was also connected to Stephen Love - Both in the concept and focus of the book, and also the sourcing so it seemed. Rocky even hinted that the upcoming book would be in part about how Mike Love screwed over his brother(s) and cousin Brian through the years, and Rocky teased several specific examples.

The case of Mike's songwriting lawsuit was addressed. Rocky said he had an audio tape of a conversation. He said the details would come out about what that was, and the implications on Mike going forward. That was one of the bigger teasers in the whole saga of Rocky posting here. Potentially explosive claims or even details about that case, we were told.

Most of Rocky's original posts focused on a very negative portrayal of Mike Love, especially zeroing in on the relationships and dealings with his brother(s)...and how Mike ended up almost ruining his brother by getting involved in bringing charges against him which were eventually dropped completely and a full exoneration was issued by the courts.

So all of that was in Rocky's initial posts and the excerpts of his book which he posted roughly three years ago.

And now it is even more than a 180 degree flip (if that's scientifically possible...) to where Rocky is spouting hype and ballyhoo and praise for Mike Love as all but the savior and messiah of the Beach Boys, the "glue" that held it all together amidst the shortcomings of the Wilson brothers and whatnot...and this is the same Rocky talking about the same Mike Love who he had little or no praise or very little in the way of positive things to say about him a few years ago in public posts.

So, what gives? What flipped Rocky? What changed? The publishers wanting to go another direction explains some of the current contents and focus of the book, but what could possibly have happened in the past 2-3 years to flip Rocky's opinions of Mike Love so drastically and obviously?

The proof of the flip is this is the same Rocky writing about the same people and topics on the record in 2015-16 versus this current book, for those interested in proof.
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« Reply #136 on: December 09, 2018, 12:15:38 PM »

Mike Love could (and would) file a lawsuit. Dennis and Carl cant.
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« Reply #137 on: December 09, 2018, 12:19:48 PM »

Let's not pay respect to this reynaldo whoever. We don't owe any respect to this tool. He's tool & troll. This is the dullest thread with no point.  You, folks, really interested to read trash like that dummy's posts, banal, typical as hell, "nothing new" type posts, filled with mistakes? The way he posts is reaaaal snoozer, let's not deny. He's "polite" CLEARLY to sell his book, it's not genuine & he doesn't care, doesn't like BBs AT ALL. It's FAKE. So...he said "he grew up with Beach Boys music". And? Everybody can say it, it's very easy. It's, like, the banalest thing anybody can ever say.
Let's be mean towards this tool. It's the best treatment for creatures like that.
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« Reply #138 on: December 09, 2018, 01:40:37 PM »

I just went on Amazon and posted a review, based on the one chapter I read here.
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« Reply #139 on: December 10, 2018, 07:56:45 AM »

Mike Love could (and would) file a lawsuit. Dennis and Carl cant.

If Rocky and Stephen Love and whoever else tells the truth or gives factual accounts that can be backed up, and Mike doesn't like it, that would fall into the category of "tough sh*t" for Mike or whoever else. Unless telling the truth is grounds for a lawsuit. Or, unless some form of a contract were signed with a confidentiality clause, and going public with information would violate that contract, which in this case I doubt there were any contracts of the sort in place when Rocky and Stephen were writing publicly a few years ago.

So Mike could bark all he wants about threatening lawsuits, it's probably nothing new, but if these guys are telling the truth there would be nothing on which to actually sue them. The most critical standard for filing a lawsuit on either libel or slander is that the statements being made are false. If they're true...."tough sh*t".
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« Reply #140 on: December 10, 2018, 11:04:08 AM »

I haven't read the book. I read the chapter posted here.

There were no doubt, neccesary, logical and perhaps even ethical and legal reasons for tidying up Rocky's narrative as was on display here back in the day.

But when the book starts coming at the story from a historical perspective, and the facts are at worst incorrect, and at best biased, then the book will have a hard time standing up, especially in places like this where a lot of people can be described as experts on the band.

I think the sweet spot for a book from Rocky, would have been in those intimate moments where he was travelling with Brian, or that story when they went to a bar (and I think Dylan was there??) These stories, or stories of clowns being beaten, could be entertaining, and could be taken with a grain of salt for Rocky's creative license. Any attempt to try and manipulate facts about the general history of the band is a losing proposition.

One thing, I do want to say, even though It's unlikely I'll purchase the book. Rocky said he was going to write a book, and he did. I can imagine it's a challenging task, so good for him for getting it done.
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« Reply #141 on: December 10, 2018, 11:54:49 AM »

Rocky said he was going to write a book, and he did. I can imagine it's a challenging task, so good for him for getting it done.

If I go to a restaurant and I get sick from the food, no one would say "well, good for the chef for at least cooking your meal, even if the meat was bad."

I kind of see what you're saying, and it has to be an incredible undertaking and I tip my hat to most authors who sit down and type out hundreds of pages, edit it, and work hard to get it published. But part of writing a non-fiction book is getting the facts right. I do want to look at the bright side of things, but I also see the travesty of publishing a book that is rife with wrong information. I agree with you that the book will have a hard time standing up because of these historical inaccuracies. It is weird to me that a book whose sole audience (I think) is hardcore Beach Boys fans who know the history backwards and forwards.
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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #142 on: December 10, 2018, 11:57:43 AM »

Rab is back! 
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And production aside, Id so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #143 on: December 10, 2018, 12:02:45 PM »

Rab is back! 

Howdy SB! The Friends Copyright release has me grinning from ear to ear. What a great time to be a fan!
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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #144 on: December 10, 2018, 12:06:49 PM »

Great set with a smile bonus track!
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And production aside, Id so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #145 on: December 10, 2018, 12:14:44 PM »

Great set with a smile bonus track!

Yeah! And I hear there's a Live set coming out too? Can't wait!
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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #146 on: December 10, 2018, 12:52:30 PM »

Posting a chapter for perusal is much appreciated.

But with all due respect, the bar keeps getting moved. Previously, it was "how can you criticize the book without having read any of it?", and now, after a chapter is posted, it has morphed into "how can you criticize the book after having read only one chapter?"

To be clear, nobody is publishing an actual official full review of this book after not reading it or reading only one chapter. But when really ancient, long-since-debunked myths and provable factual inaccuracies are found in one chapter, I think it's then fair for people to take a pass and to criticize the work. It would not be fair to actually publish a review in a journal, newspaper, etc. without reading the book.

I think it is becoming more and more clear that Rocky Pamplin's admittedly insider view of the band for a few years was and is most effectively conveyed by anecdotes and stories as related within the context of *another* book on the band that has a wider scope. Indeed, this describes the Gaines "Heroes and Villains" book.

An author first has to have the story and facts regarding the band straight. Then, they have to be able to vet and feel out stories and anecdotes related by people such as Pamplin.

Now, to be fair, while there have been some passing references to this book telling the story of the band, it is, I guess, generally being marketed as a "Rocky Pamplin Autobiography" written with a co-writer. So I guess we can't expect someone writing their own autobiography to then hand it off to someone who actually knows about the Beach Boys to turn it into a biography on the band.

But, whatever the book is, it does delve into the BB story, and that chapter has grossly inaccurate information.

Separately, there are number of obviously subjective opinions expressed in the chapter that I think many fans/experts/historians would say call into question many elements of the work. Specifically, it's portrayal of Mike Love as "holding the band together", and other glowingly positive statements about Mike Love. To be clear, I'm not looking for a bash job. Even folks who have written books from a decidedly non-Love-centric point of view such as Jon Stebbins or even Timothy White or Peter Ames Carlin have given Mike his due.

But I'm sorry, when Mike takes the license to use the "Beach Boys" name, brings in David Marks, and within the span a few months both Carl Wilson and Al Jardine are gone from the band, that is the *exact opposite* of holding the band together.

Further, it's generally agreed upon that it was Carl Wilson that was the peacekeeper that held things together for decades, and also held things together musically. Note that when Carl left in 1981-82, the band went off the deep end in terms of quality of the live shows. *And*, when Carl passed away, the Al-Mike thing immediately completely crumbled.
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« Reply #147 on: December 10, 2018, 01:57:31 PM »

Quote
If I go to a restaurant and I get sick from the food, no one would say "well, good for the chef for at least cooking your meal, even if the meat was bad."

Well, to put it another way, you don't win a Nobel Prize from attempted chemistry
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« Reply #148 on: December 10, 2018, 02:55:06 PM »

On Amazon, the book currently has 6 reviews - 4 give it 5 stars, 2 give it one star.  So,  that's 22 "points" from 6 reviews, or a  3.67 average.  Yet Amazon says the overall rating is a 4.1 - can't anyone do math?
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« Reply #149 on: December 10, 2018, 04:18:17 PM »

On Amazon, the book currently has 6 reviews - 4 give it 5 stars, 2 give it one star.  So,  that's 22 "points" from 6 reviews, or a  3.67 average.  Yet Amazon says the overall rating is a 4.1 - can't anyone do math?

Wouldn't be surprised if Mike had this piece of crap for sale at his shows along with his god awful Xmas album.   Roll Eyes
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