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640765 Posts in 25595 Topics by 3639 Members - Latest Member: treblephone December 10, 2018, 09:37:37 AM
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Author Topic: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published  (Read 7034 times)
marcella27
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« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2018, 09:23:22 AM »

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« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 09:24:39 AM by marcella27 » Logged
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« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2018, 09:25:04 AM »

I read the book.  I would imagine Jardine would be pleased to find that he doesn't figure into this particular tale, as written. Nobody comes off very well, including the narrator.
Keep in mind that this is about family relationships - the story is about the Wilson family, not the "Beach Boys" band. Jardine is a Beach Boy, but - as he could probably tell you - he is not a Wilson...
I read the book.  I would imagine Jardine would be pleased to find that he doesn't figure into this particular tale, as written. Nobody comes off very well, including the narrator.
Keep in mind that this is about family relationships - the story is about the Wilson family, not the "Beach Boys" band. Jardine is a Beach Boy, but - as he could probably tell you - he is not a Wilson...

I wrote a long response to this yesterday and I guess I'm not too swift at posting stuff. It never showed up so I'm gonna give it another try and see if it shows up this time.
Maybe someone didn't like it and simply removed it? Is that possible? I could have sworn that I hit both "post" and "save" as I fashioned a response. (sigh)
BTW, thank you everyone for all the responses and info on "The Beach Boys, An American Family."
Here' my response to the above quote:

I respectfully disagree with the suggestion that this story is about the Wilson family and am surprised that it is characterized that way.
Much of the book's  focus is, in fact, on the Love brothers, Mike, Stan and Steve. The relationship of the Love brothers is often overlooked in the Beach Boys "oeuvre" and it is a fascinating recounting that we accomplish in this book. Over time, Mike helped established Steve as the manager, and it was Steve along with Marylin and Mike who hired Stan to help out with Brian who was slipping into a disastrous condition. Stan then brought Rocky, his college roommate and friend, aboard to join the "save Brian" team. This set the sage for a lot. All four of these guys, Mike, Steve, Stan and Rocky were each "bigger than life" in their own ways. Mike was Mike, superstar since forever, Steve was an accomplished scholar, (magna at USC)  and manager of one of the biggest bands in the world for nearly a decade with great success all around. Stan was a professional basketball player and Rocky was drafted by the NFL and became an international model (Playgirl centerfold and Camel Man). No lightweights in that bunch. Add sibling rivalry, band loyalty and the age old rift between management and talent, then sprinkle Carl and Dennis Wilson on the whole concoction, and "look out Cleveland," stuff was bound to happen and it did! To me, it is this explored interaction that makes the read so interesting and previously, in many ways, untold.
The technical part we left out was where Steve was fired, and even charged with felony embezzlement. Steve was later completely exonerated legally (I've seen the court docs) and additionally,  "forgiven" by everyone, as I understand it. It was a a dark alleyway we chose not to go down. I'm guessing here, but I bet there were huge regrets on all sides for the whole incident. Tough stuff.
 



"Mike was Mike superstar since forever"Huh?? Huh?? Huh Huh Huh What the hey you talkin' 'bout, boy?? More like embarrassing clown forever. Razz

Wait a minute. "Embarrassing clown forever." Was it you singing harmony and keeping it together day after day, night after night, massive crowd after massive crowd, show after show?
I'm always a little amused when people bash Mike Love. Here's why;

Imagine you are Mike Love, backstage wherever, a huge crowd is waiting to be entertained. NOW I'M MAKING THIS UP, mind you, flight of fancy, if you will, but just stay with me for a moment.
You check out the guys you're about to walk out there with:

Brian : Not "what city are we in?" like Dennis or Carl who were often barley sober enough to stand up, but "what planet are we on?"
Carl and Dennis, "whoopee, can I get a drink on stage with me?" Carl actually fell into the drum set on one occasion and a stand by drummer was continually on the road with them because Dennis was often incapable of "going on with the show" at all. Mike Kowalski had to slip on stage to play drums. Now, there's no doubt that Carl and Dennis were talented and both superior musicians, but they were not consummate professional entertainers consistently. Say what you will. MIKE LOVE WAS.
Al Jardine : "Whew, someone I can count on. THANK GOD."

The "crazies" outnumbered the sobers by at least three to two. That can't have been easy.

I think we can all thankful and certainly all the myriad fans can be thankful that Mike Love, meditator, sober, present and capable was there day in and day out.

Youse pays for a ticket, youse wants to see a show. Mike delivered, always! So says his brother Steve Love to this day, and, sadly, there has been no love lost there for quite some time.

Jus sayin.




Ron, I think you will find that there are a lot of people on here (including myself) who will freely acknowledge that Mike made a very important contribution to the band.  First, his vocals are an essential part of the blend.  He wrote the lyrics to some of their greatest hits.  And yes, he was a consistent performer.  However, there is a quote in the article that HeyJude posted whereby Darian Sahanaja says that he thinks Mike could get his due, but that people aren't willing to give it to him just because of the way Mike is.  I think that's a pretty accurate and fair statement.  Mike has done a LOT of things that make it very easy to dislike him. And I think calling Mike Love a "mediator" is like calling Santa Claus skinny.  Um, NO.  He may have been present and sober, but he was not a mediator.  I find it laughable to describe someone who's famous for his lawsuits against family and bandmates a mediator.   

Second, I don't think that painting a picture of Carl as perpetually drunk and falling into drum kits is fair, accurate, or respectful.  Everyone can acknowledge that Carl had a couple of bad years due to substance abuse, but we're talking what, three years out of a 30+ career?  I stand to be corrected, but the incidents on the Australia tour are not representative of Carl's overall role in the band.  He is unfailingly described as the bandleader, the peacemaker, the immensely talented producer, singer and musician.  He is also unfailingly described as a nice and respectful person.  The picture that you're painting here is really ugly. 

And finally, referring to the Wilsons as "the crazies" is pretty much going to ruin your credibility with serious BB fans.  Just saying. 


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« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2018, 09:35:52 AM »


Oh Brother, there's one born every moment. I just ordered for the 2ed time a copy of the 2 part movie. The first version I had was so grainy and badly copied, I could barely watch it.
After hearing all of Smile site's educated comments, it sounds like a clean copy will be just as useless.
I was seduced by the clips on YouTube and wanted to be familiar with all the dramatic versions of the band history. I thought the actors were actually pretty good when I saw those clips.
I had occasion to talk to Marilyn to whom we had sent a copy of the book and when I asked her if she had a copy of the 2 parter she just laughed and said it was just "made up."


Ron, if anything watch that "American Family" film when it focuses in on the years 1966-67, specifically the creation of Pet Sounds-Good Vibrations-Smile-Smiley Smile, etc.

What you'll see is a nearly complete rewriting and whitewashing of history, to the point where real people's names had to be left out because the portrayal or suggestions of them in that film were basically defamation and/or slander. It's as frustrating for fans who have knowledge of what happened as well as fans of the music and the people being turned into cartoon-like bad guys or shown as idiots to watch that dreck play out.

And what's more frustrating is this was shown over 2 nights on ABC as something of an "authorized" bio of the band. I taped it both nights. The 66-67 part of it was awful enough to scupper the whole thing. And I'm not alone in that assertion.

Now factor this into it:

John Stamos was instrumental in bringing this film to the air on ABC, I believe he was the exec producer.

So one could rather easily draw a line between him and his friend Mike Love and suggest these scenes are Mike's version of the Beach Boys' history as shown through Mike's perspective. Then when you go further and read some of Mike's various legal filings, and his depiction of the years 1966-67 and Smile and beyond, they line up with the cartoonish portrayal as seen in this film. Druggies, interlopers, hangers-on, coattail riders, leeches...and a zonked out Brian Wilson with destructive collaborators and influences around him. Until, that is, Mike Love swoops in to save Brian and "write music with my cousin".

So for all the platitudes in the descriptions of the book and Mike's role and image thus far, consider this trainwreck of a historically inaccurate "authorized" TV movie  bio could very well be how Mike Love wanted to portray the band's history for millions of unknowing fans watching it.



« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 09:36:46 AM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

“Some people think you have to knock somebody down in order to build yourself up, I don’t look at it that way. To the mentality that likes to disparage other people, I say perhaps you should get a life. It’s just wrong thinking in my opinion and I don’t mind saying that.” - Mike Love

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« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2018, 10:06:25 AM »

Uh Ron, your credibility just tanked when you began comparing myKe luHv to Carl Wilson. You obviousley have absolutely no concept nor basic knowledge of the band's history with the exception of what has been spoon fed to you by those with a "luHv" infested agenda. I have not purchased a ticket, nor gone to see the fake myKe luHv version of the road band since Carl regrettably passed away and I never will because I can't stomach watching an ungrateful, litigious, egomaniac clown disgrace the Beach Boys name. This jerk is hell bent on rewriting history by trying to mislead the unknowing public into swallowing down that HE was the the driving force behind the band and that Brian couldn't produce without him. By the way, you mentioned that he was so very instrumental in keeping the show on the road and delivering a quality show. Ha! After Carl is gone, this turd goes and FIRES Al Jardine because he was DIFFICULT?? Well there goes the best voice in the band and is replaced with a couple of sidemen! Huh?  Shocked  Roll Eyes Shocked. Yeah, I'll go see the "Beach Boys" after mYke luHv is officially gone.  Evil

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« Reply #79 on: December 03, 2018, 11:59:32 AM »

Reynaldo, did anyone tell you the part about how Carl Wilson cleaned up his act after he hit bottom in Australia?
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« Reply #80 on: December 03, 2018, 12:21:45 PM »

Reynaldo, did anyone tell you the part about how Carl Wilson cleaned up his act after he hit bottom in Australia?

Also, I fail to see any sort of moralizing regarding whether or not band members struggled with substances (or didn't) as being appropriate in any way when seemingly judging their character. It's what's inside that counts, and it just so happens that the particular members of this band who sadly struggled the most with substances just happened to have the biggest hearts and were the best people deep down where it counts. Being sober in and of itself does not necessarily by definition a good person make, and vice versa.
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« Reply #81 on: December 03, 2018, 12:40:54 PM »

Equating Dennis's and Carl's drug/alcohol abuse in terms of how it impacted the band and band members would have to show a gross lack of understanding of the band's history.

Carl's off-the-rails issues lasted a pretty short amount of time, whereas Dennis had more serious problems, longer-lasting problems, and obviously Dennis's heart-breaking demise indicates how more more severe his problems were.

Sure, there have been subtle and not-so-subtle implications that Carl's drinking continued to be an issue for years after his 1976-1978-ish issues. But if that was the case, it was 100% behind the scenes and didn't impact anything to do with the band. Even Mike Love, who has not been shy about barfing out ample negative points pertaining to "the Wilsons'" use of drugs and alcohol, has never indicated Carl was an issue at all after 1978.

Check out any live performance from 1979 to the end in 1997. Not once have I ever seen or heard on stage (or in any other interview or studio recording, etc.) the overt on-stage inebriation Carl seemed to display on some extant 1977 and 1978 recordings.

Is there deep, dark, unknown things about all of these guys that we don't know? Surely, as with anyone. But I'm not sure why there is an overemphasis of the "crazy Wilsons" in that 1977-78 timeframe. Make not mistake, that era was a strained moment in the band's career that is absolutely important to document. They nearly did arguably reach the point of breaking up in September of 1977. Or as near as they ever came in the pre-1998 era. But that "free living vs. the TM'ers" thing (or whatever it was being called) was a pretty short blip in the history of the band.

Honing in predominantly on Carl's career during the short period of time he was doing drugs and getting punched out by Rocky would be like knowing nothing about Brian Wilson and then *only* reading the Usher diaries books. It would give insight into a small section of the story, but ignore the other 50+ years before and after.

If one were trying to convey the band's history (or, even if only focusing on a short era, also bring in some details about what happened in the years of aftermath), it would be key to point out how drastically the band politics changed in the 80s. By the 90s, it was Al Jardine on the outs and Brian largely out of the picture. Carl apparently was largely resigned to Mike running the band, it would appear.
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« Reply #82 on: December 03, 2018, 09:56:59 PM »

Yeh let's not overstate Carl's minor problems during 1977-78. There are plenty of live shows out there from this period in which Carl perfoms well, even if he looked a bit out of it or whatever. Dennis was usually professional as well when present.

But these guys -- even in these states -- had passion and vibe that the others lacked. It was their edge. Really why do we care so much about putting on a professional show night after night etc???

I'm not down on Mike, he doesn't deserve half of the crap flung at him. After all, the man co-wrote most of the Wild Honey album. But let's not take Carl and Dennis down to bring Mike up.

Let's talk about another thing. I've told the story before -- I wrote all of The Beach Boys individual letters when I was 14 (in 1993) basically just telling them how much I loved their music. Carl was the only one to respond -- and he sent an autographed picture. That was not only the "professional" thing to do, but honestly just good hearted. I don't buy any book that trashes Carl, sorry. He is a hero.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 09:59:57 PM by DonnyL » Logged

Reynaldo
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« Reply #83 on: December 04, 2018, 09:12:26 AM »

I read the book.  I would imagine Jardine would be pleased to find that he doesn't figure into this particular tale, as written. Nobody comes off very well, including the narrator.
Keep in mind that this is about family relationships - the story is about the Wilson family, not the "Beach Boys" band. Jardine is a Beach Boy, but - as he could probably tell you - he is not a Wilson...
I read the book.  I would imagine Jardine would be pleased to find that he doesn't figure into this particular tale, as written. Nobody comes off very well, including the narrator.
Keep in mind that this is about family relationships - the story is about the Wilson family, not the "Beach Boys" band. Jardine is a Beach Boy, but - as he could probably tell you - he is not a Wilson...

I wrote a long response to this yesterday and I guess I'm not too swift at posting stuff. It never showed up so I'm gonna give it another try and see if it shows up this time.
Maybe someone didn't like it and simply removed it? Is that possible? I could have sworn that I hit both "post" and "save" as I fashioned a response. (sigh)
BTW, thank you everyone for all the responses and info on "The Beach Boys, An American Family."
Here' my response to the above quote:

I respectfully disagree with the suggestion that this story is about the Wilson family and am surprised that it is characterized that way.
Much of the book's  focus is, in fact, on the Love brothers, Mike, Stan and Steve. The relationship of the Love brothers is often overlooked in the Beach Boys "oeuvre" and it is a fascinating recounting that we accomplish in this book. Over time, Mike helped established Steve as the manager, and it was Steve along with Marylin and Mike who hired Stan to help out with Brian who was slipping into a disastrous condition. Stan then brought Rocky, his college roommate and friend, aboard to join the "save Brian" team. This set the sage for a lot. All four of these guys, Mike, Steve, Stan and Rocky were each "bigger than life" in their own ways. Mike was Mike, superstar since forever, Steve was an accomplished scholar, (magna at USC)  and manager of one of the biggest bands in the world for nearly a decade with great success all around. Stan was a professional basketball player and Rocky was drafted by the NFL and became an international model (Playgirl centerfold and Camel Man). No lightweights in that bunch. Add sibling rivalry, band loyalty and the age old rift between management and talent, then sprinkle Carl and Dennis Wilson on the whole concoction, and "look out Cleveland," stuff was bound to happen and it did! To me, it is this explored interaction that makes the read so interesting and previously, in many ways, untold.
The technical part we left out was where Steve was fired, and even charged with felony embezzlement. Steve was later completely exonerated legally (I've seen the court docs) and additionally,  "forgiven" by everyone, as I understand it. It was a a dark alleyway we chose not to go down. I'm guessing here, but I bet there were huge regrets on all sides for the whole incident. Tough stuff.
 



"Mike was Mike superstar since forever"Huh?? Huh?? Huh Huh Huh What the hey you talkin' 'bout, boy?? More like embarrassing clown forever. Razz

Wait a minute. "Embarrassing clown forever." Was it you singing harmony and keeping it together day after day, night after night, massive crowd after massive crowd, show after show?
I'm always a little amused when people bash Mike Love. Here's why;

Imagine you are Mike Love, backstage wherever, a huge crowd is waiting to be entertained. NOW I'M MAKING THIS UP, mind you, flight of fancy, if you will, but just stay with me for a moment.
You check out the guys you're about to walk out there with:

Brian : Not "what city are we in?" like Dennis or Carl who were often barley sober enough to stand up, but "what planet are we on?"
Carl and Dennis, "whoopee, can I get a drink on stage with me?" Carl actually fell into the drum set on one occasion and a stand by drummer was continually on the road with them because Dennis was often incapable of "going on with the show" at all. Mike Kowalski had to slip on stage to play drums. Now, there's no doubt that Carl and Dennis were talented and both superior musicians, but they were not consummate professional entertainers consistently. Say what you will. MIKE LOVE WAS.
Al Jardine : "Whew, someone I can count on. THANK GOD."

The "crazies" outnumbered the sobers by at least three to two. That can't have been easy.

I think we can all thankful and certainly all the myriad fans can be thankful that Mike Love, meditator, sober, present and capable was there day in and day out.

Youse pays for a ticket, youse wants to see a show. Mike delivered, always! So says his brother Steve Love to this day, and, sadly, there has been no love lost there for quite some time.

Jus sayin.




Ron, I think you will find that there are a lot of people on here (including myself) who will freely acknowledge that Mike made a very important contribution to the band.  First, his vocals are an essential part of the blend.  He wrote the lyrics to some of their greatest hits.  And yes, he was a consistent performer.  However, there is a quote in the article that HeyJude posted whereby Darian Sahanaja says that he thinks Mike could get his due, but that people aren't willing to give it to him just because of the way Mike is.  I think that's a pretty accurate and fair statement.  Mike has done a LOT of things that make it very easy to dislike him. And I think calling Mike Love a "mediator" is like calling Santa Claus skinny.  Um, NO.  He may have been present and sober, but he was not a mediator.  I find it laughable to describe someone who's famous for his lawsuits against family and bandmates a mediator.   

Second, I don't think that painting a picture of Carl as perpetually drunk and falling into drum kits is fair, accurate, or respectful.  Everyone can acknowledge that Carl had a couple of bad years due to substance abuse, but we're talking what, three years out of a 30+ career?  I stand to be corrected, but the incidents on the Australia tour are not representative of Carl's overall role in the band.  He is unfailingly described as the bandleader, the peacemaker, the immensely talented producer, singer and musician.  He is also unfailingly described as a nice and respectful person.  The picture that you're painting here is really ugly. 

And finally, referring to the Wilsons as "the crazies" is pretty much going to ruin your credibility with serious BB fans.  Just saying. 




Sometimes I get "schooled" and I think in many ways I just was. Painful but growth inspiring.
In my defense, I'm trying to point out that the stuff we didn't see, off stage, where Mike Love's steady hand was forceful is why I came off respecting him so highly - an unpopular point of view with many. Mike was also tough and controversial as well. Still, I stick to my guns, he was the glue that kept this show on the road and that ain't easy. On stage is one arena, off stage another. There's skill and genius in both areas. He straddled that divide masterfully.
Just a note, I described him as a "meditator" referring to him as a guy who chose a sober lifestyle centered around Transcendental Meditation, not a "mediator." He was not know for that. Tough, forceful, talented, feisty, but "mediator," not particularly.
As an aside I've been a Transcendental Meditator for decades, so I have that connection with Mike. I hope to be able to share that kind of space with him someday in person.
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« Reply #84 on: December 04, 2018, 09:23:41 AM »

Uh Ron, your credibility just tanked when you began comparing myKe luHv to Carl Wilson. You obviousley have absolutely no concept nor basic knowledge of the band's history with the exception of what has been spoon fed to you by those with a "luHv" infested agenda. I have not purchased a ticket, nor gone to see the fake myKe luHv version of the road band since Carl regrettably passed away and I never will because I can't stomach watching an ungrateful, litigious, egomaniac clown disgrace the Beach Boys name. This jerk is hell bent on rewriting history by trying to mislead the unknowing public into swallowing down that HE was the the driving force behind the band and that Brian couldn't produce without him. By the way, you mentioned that he was so very instrumental in keeping the show on the road and delivering a quality show. Ha! After Carl is gone, this turd goes and FIRES Al Jardine because he was DIFFICULT?? Well there goes the best voice in the band and is replaced with a couple of sidemen! Huh?  Shocked  Roll Eyes Shocked. Yeah, I'll go see the "Beach Boys" after mYke luHv is officially gone.  Evil


From your point of view, you may be right. Lot's of fans who still enjoy "The Beach Boy" to this day disagree. If we gave a jaundiced, disrespectful portrait of Carl, which I don't concede we did, certainly not intentionally, in any case, my apologies. We are lucky to have been able to enjoy Carl's talents as long as we did. Not long enough, certainly.
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« Reply #85 on: December 04, 2018, 09:35:21 AM »

Reynaldo, did anyone tell you the part about how Carl Wilson cleaned up his act after he hit bottom in Australia?

Also, I fail to see any sort of moralizing regarding whether or not band members struggled with substances (or didn't) as being appropriate in any way when seemingly judging their character. It's what's inside that counts, and it just so happens that the particular members of this band who sadly struggled the most with substances just happened to have the biggest hearts and were the best people deep down where it counts. Being sober in and of itself does not necessarily by definition a good person make, and vice versa.

I agree. Both Carl and Dennis were bigger than life in the "heart" area. Substance abuse and the behavior it inspires has little to do with the person. In many ways when someone is "in his cups" on any given day, or even encompassed in the grips of the disease of addiction in a larger sense, we are involved with a disease and not the underlying character of the actual person. Still, like it or not, the actions have real effects on those in the "fallout" area. To see Dennis' enormous talent swallowed up by addiction was tragic. I would have liked to have him around an productive. "Pacific Ocean Blue" showed great promise. I would have like to have seen more.
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« Reply #86 on: December 04, 2018, 09:39:29 AM »

Yeh let's not overstate Carl's minor problems during 1977-78. There are plenty of live shows out there from this period in which Carl perfoms well, even if he looked a bit out of it or whatever. Dennis was usually professional as well when present.

But these guys -- even in these states -- had passion and vibe that the others lacked. It was their edge. Really why do we care so much about putting on a professional show night after night etc???

I'm not down on Mike, he doesn't deserve half of the crap flung at him. After all, the man co-wrote most of the Wild Honey album. But let's not take Carl and Dennis down to bring Mike up.

Let's talk about another thing. I've told the story before -- I wrote all of The Beach Boys individual letters when I was 14 (in 1993) basically just telling them how much I loved their music. Carl was the only one to respond -- and he sent an autographed picture. That was not only the "professional" thing to do, but honestly just good hearted. I don't buy any book that trashes Carl, sorry. He is a hero.

I think you are ill advised if you think the book "trashes" Carl. It doesn't. Contempt prior to investigation is your loss. It's a pretty darn good book. BTW, that's a lovely story about Carl. I wish I would have heard it before. That's the exact kind of tale we would have gone out of our way to include.

By the way, I had never heard of the Smile site before I was lucky enough to get involved with this project. I was just a guy that loved the Beach Boys music, no matter where or how it evolved. It is part of my musical DNA. I'm touched by the members of this site, whether I agree or disagree with them.
My over riding response is "youse guys rock, good on ya."
That's sounds a bit sappy, so keep on swinging at me, I can take it.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 09:46:37 AM by Reynaldo » Logged
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« Reply #87 on: December 04, 2018, 11:41:07 AM »

Guy trashes the most loved and respected members of a group. Entire message board rallies against said trashed members of the group and puts the guy in his place. Guy comes back with his tail between his legs saying "Oh, I'm sorry, you're right. They really were great guys!!". This is a most entertaining thread.  Grin
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« Reply #88 on: December 04, 2018, 11:42:36 AM »

I read the book.  I would imagine Jardine would be pleased to find that he doesn't figure into this particular tale, as written. Nobody comes off very well, including the narrator.
Keep in mind that this is about family relationships - the story is about the Wilson family, not the "Beach Boys" band. Jardine is a Beach Boy, but - as he could probably tell you - he is not a Wilson...
I read the book.  I would imagine Jardine would be pleased to find that he doesn't figure into this particular tale, as written. Nobody comes off very well, including the narrator.
Keep in mind that this is about family relationships - the story is about the Wilson family, not the "Beach Boys" band. Jardine is a Beach Boy, but - as he could probably tell you - he is not a Wilson...

I wrote a long response to this yesterday and I guess I'm not too swift at posting stuff. It never showed up so I'm gonna give it another try and see if it shows up this time.
Maybe someone didn't like it and simply removed it? Is that possible? I could have sworn that I hit both "post" and "save" as I fashioned a response. (sigh)
BTW, thank you everyone for all the responses and info on "The Beach Boys, An American Family."
Here' my response to the above quote:

I respectfully disagree with the suggestion that this story is about the Wilson family and am surprised that it is characterized that way.
Much of the book's  focus is, in fact, on the Love brothers, Mike, Stan and Steve. The relationship of the Love brothers is often overlooked in the Beach Boys "oeuvre" and it is a fascinating recounting that we accomplish in this book. Over time, Mike helped established Steve as the manager, and it was Steve along with Marylin and Mike who hired Stan to help out with Brian who was slipping into a disastrous condition. Stan then brought Rocky, his college roommate and friend, aboard to join the "save Brian" team. This set the sage for a lot. All four of these guys, Mike, Steve, Stan and Rocky were each "bigger than life" in their own ways. Mike was Mike, superstar since forever, Steve was an accomplished scholar, (magna at USC)  and manager of one of the biggest bands in the world for nearly a decade with great success all around. Stan was a professional basketball player and Rocky was drafted by the NFL and became an international model (Playgirl centerfold and Camel Man). No lightweights in that bunch. Add sibling rivalry, band loyalty and the age old rift between management and talent, then sprinkle Carl and Dennis Wilson on the whole concoction, and "look out Cleveland," stuff was bound to happen and it did! To me, it is this explored interaction that makes the read so interesting and previously, in many ways, untold.
The technical part we left out was where Steve was fired, and even charged with felony embezzlement. Steve was later completely exonerated legally (I've seen the court docs) and additionally,  "forgiven" by everyone, as I understand it. It was a a dark alleyway we chose not to go down. I'm guessing here, but I bet there were huge regrets on all sides for the whole incident. Tough stuff.
 



"Mike was Mike superstar since forever"Huh?? Huh?? Huh Huh Huh What the hey you talkin' 'bout, boy?? More like embarrassing clown forever. Razz

Wait a minute. "Embarrassing clown forever." Was it you singing harmony and keeping it together day after day, night after night, massive crowd after massive crowd, show after show?
I'm always a little amused when people bash Mike Love. Here's why;

Imagine you are Mike Love, backstage wherever, a huge crowd is waiting to be entertained. NOW I'M MAKING THIS UP, mind you, flight of fancy, if you will, but just stay with me for a moment.
You check out the guys you're about to walk out there with:

Brian : Not "what city are we in?" like Dennis or Carl who were often barley sober enough to stand up, but "what planet are we on?"
Carl and Dennis, "whoopee, can I get a drink on stage with me?" Carl actually fell into the drum set on one occasion and a stand by drummer was continually on the road with them because Dennis was often incapable of "going on with the show" at all. Mike Kowalski had to slip on stage to play drums. Now, there's no doubt that Carl and Dennis were talented and both superior musicians, but they were not consummate professional entertainers consistently. Say what you will. MIKE LOVE WAS.
Al Jardine : "Whew, someone I can count on. THANK GOD."

The "crazies" outnumbered the sobers by at least three to two. That can't have been easy.

I think we can all thankful and certainly all the myriad fans can be thankful that Mike Love, meditator, sober, present and capable was there day in and day out.

Youse pays for a ticket, youse wants to see a show. Mike delivered, always! So says his brother Steve Love to this day, and, sadly, there has been no love lost there for quite some time.

Jus sayin.




Ron, I think you will find that there are a lot of people on here (including myself) who will freely acknowledge that Mike made a very important contribution to the band.  First, his vocals are an essential part of the blend.  He wrote the lyrics to some of their greatest hits.  And yes, he was a consistent performer.  However, there is a quote in the article that HeyJude posted whereby Darian Sahanaja says that he thinks Mike could get his due, but that people aren't willing to give it to him just because of the way Mike is.  I think that's a pretty accurate and fair statement.  Mike has done a LOT of things that make it very easy to dislike him. And I think calling Mike Love a "mediator" is like calling Santa Claus skinny.  Um, NO.  He may have been present and sober, but he was not a mediator.  I find it laughable to describe someone who's famous for his lawsuits against family and bandmates a mediator.    

Second, I don't think that painting a picture of Carl as perpetually drunk and falling into drum kits is fair, accurate, or respectful.  Everyone can acknowledge that Carl had a couple of bad years due to substance abuse, but we're talking what, three years out of a 30+ career?  I stand to be corrected, but the incidents on the Australia tour are not representative of Carl's overall role in the band.  He is unfailingly described as the bandleader, the peacemaker, the immensely talented producer, singer and musician.  He is also unfailingly described as a nice and respectful person.  The picture that you're painting here is really ugly.  

And finally, referring to the Wilsons as "the crazies" is pretty much going to ruin your credibility with serious BB fans.  Just saying.  




Sometimes I get "schooled" and I think in many ways I just was. Painful but growth inspiring.
In my defense, I'm trying to point out that the stuff we didn't see, off stage, where Mike Love's steady hand was forceful is why I came off respecting him so highly - an unpopular point of view with many. Mike was also tough and controversial as well. Still, I stick to my guns, he was the glue that kept this show on the road and that ain't easy. On stage is one arena, off stage another. There's skill and genius in both areas. He straddled that divide masterfully.
Just a note, I described him as a "meditator" referring to him as a guy who chose a sober lifestyle centered around Transcendental Meditation, not a "mediator." He was not know for that. Tough, forceful, talented, feisty, but "mediator," not particularly.
As an aside I've been a Transcendental Meditator for decades, so I have that connection with Mike. I hope to be able to share that kind of space with him someday in person.


Oh my goodness!  My mistake.  I definitely should have read more carefully before I went on about Mike not being a mediator.  Sorry.    
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 11:43:57 AM by marcella27 » Logged
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« Reply #89 on: December 04, 2018, 01:26:23 PM »

Guy trashes the most loved and respected members of a group. Entire message board rallies against said trashed members of the group and puts the guy in his place. Guy comes back with his tail between his legs saying "Oh, I'm sorry, you're right. They really were great guys!!". This is a most entertaining thread.  Grin

But ...said "guy" is stickin' to his story 'cause the 'con' job has not only been swallowed whole but it's been completely digested and then, as a result, subsequently crapped out and used to fertilize more of that same supposed 'shinola' which has been published and even called a "book"...by some.  That the so-called "book" is the equivalent of the exact same 2-part made for TV B.S.-'fest' referred to in this specific thread is not to be construed as a problem though as the individual in question here is willing to 'take' our fan-worthy abuse' in order to further sales.

Well good fuckin' luck with THAT!!!
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 01:41:53 PM by Lee Marshall » Logged

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« Reply #90 on: December 04, 2018, 02:16:08 PM »

Considering that the "Pamplin era" of the BBs coincides with the "Free living vs. TM'ers" era of the group, and that this divide within the band was a key political issue of that era, I'd say it's probably important to know that the co-author of the book is a long-time TM practitioner.

While that nor anything of that sort should preclude someone from writing a book on the subject, I think it's fair to wonder if a long-time TM practitioner, and one that apparently went into writing this book without a deep, hardcore understanding of the band's history, might be more sympathetic to Mike's "side" during that era (or any era for that matter).

I think one of the few times a journalist delved into the dichotomy of Mike espousing the calming virtues and benefits of TM versus his arguably litigious nature and seeming anger/bitterness, etc. was the 2016 Rolling Stone piece. Here's a bit from that one:

In 2005, Love sued Brian once again, this time for “shamelessly misappropriat[ing] Mike Love’s songs, likeness and the Beach Boys trademark” during the promotion of Brian’s belatedly released Smile album, mainly because a tiny picture of Love with the Beach Boys found its way onto a promotional CD given out in a British newspaper. A judge dismissed all of the claims and said the copyright aspect “bordered on frivolous.” But far from suing Brian at every opportunity, shouldn’t Love, with all his years of meditation, have been the one to step forward and try to make peace?

He blinks at the question, rolls his eyes and curls his lip.

“When somebody in your family suffers from a mental illness, sometimes it’s gone past the opportunity to have a normal relationship,” he says. “I mean, there may be a feeling that, ideally, you would like to see peace in the family. And I have nothing but sympathy for Brian. But when you say ‘peace,’ that would presuppose everything is peaceful. Well, when somebody has chosen a path or direction in life that has led to some pretty unhappy situations, everything isn’t all right.”

And he’s completely serious. It’s out of his hands. There’s nothing he can do. It’s enough to make you bang your head against the statue of Shiva, the Indian god of destruction, that stands in his house, or turn upside down the framed photograph of him, George Harrison, John Lennon, Donovan and others hanging out with the Maharishi back in the day. Then again, in 1968, Love said, “One of the greatest things [about Transcendental Meditation] that interested me was that [the Maharishi] said, ‘You don’t have to give up your Rolls-Royce and forsake all your pursuits of material pleasures to develop inner-spiritual qualities.’ That sounded real good to me.” And maybe all the lawsuits could be considered part of those pursuits, too, and thus fully justifiable, at least on an inner-spiritual level.
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« Reply #91 on: December 04, 2018, 02:35:25 PM »

Again, not having read the book, but having read the original thread with Rocky, and new snippets/reviews of the book here, one could almost be led to believe that the book could have turned out in a way to favor the pro-Mike "side" of the story (compared to how Rocky seemingly originally was going to have the book go in a possibly different direction, from what I remember of Rocky's posts from awhile back, which admittedly I have not re-read)... and I do wonder if Mike's people found a way to get Mike's political clout to encourage/strongarm Rocky's book turn out in a way that favors what Mike would want it to say (and not say). Is it out of line to make that assumption? I also understand that a perfectly straight answer for this might not be in the cards either. I also don't imagine there'd be a single person who'd want to admit that.

And hey, I'd assume that many wealthy and powerful celebs might do the same, if an insider had stuff to potentially say in a book; I imagine there are ways to get a particular book watered down prior to release to benefit what they do/don't want public. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but it's hard to assume that a bunch of complex politics are not at work with regards to any release involving this band we love. Just like I imagine there had to have been a bunch of behind-the-scenes discussions with Mike with regards to the 2000 TV movie turning out in a way that he wanted, being that his buddy was an executive producer.  Same goes for Love & Mercy, of course.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 06:54:37 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #92 on: December 04, 2018, 04:05:15 PM »

"If Mike wasn't such a wanker it would be immensely easier to overlook his lack of any real talent..."


If someone famous didn't actually say that, they should have!

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« Reply #93 on: December 04, 2018, 04:17:21 PM »


Brian : Not "what city are we in?" like Dennis or Carl who were often barley sober enough to stand up, but "what planet are we on?"
Carl and Dennis, "whoopee, can I get a drink on stage with me?" Carl actually fell into the drum set on one occasion and a stand by drummer was continually on the road with them because Dennis was often incapable of "going on with the show" at all. Mike Kowalski had to slip on stage to play drums. Now, there's no doubt that Carl and Dennis were talented and both superior musicians, but they were not consummate professional entertainers consistently. Say what you will. MIKE LOVE WAS.


This is not an accurate characterization of Carl Wilson. Yes, there were some on-stage issues for a short period of time, but 99.9% of the time he was a consummate professional on stage. As a long time fan (to put it mildly!) I saw Carl on stage with the band on numerous occasions, starting way back in 1966, and I never once saw him "barely sober enough to stand up" wondering "what planet are we on?"

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« Reply #94 on: December 04, 2018, 05:59:56 PM »

Yeh let's not overstate Carl's minor problems during 1977-78. There are plenty of live shows out there from this period in which Carl perfoms well, even if he looked a bit out of it or whatever. Dennis was usually professional as well when present.

But these guys -- even in these states -- had passion and vibe that the others lacked. It was their edge. Really why do we care so much about putting on a professional show night after night etc???

I'm not down on Mike, he doesn't deserve half of the crap flung at him. After all, the man co-wrote most of the Wild Honey album. But let's not take Carl and Dennis down to bring Mike up.

Let's talk about another thing. I've told the story before -- I wrote all of The Beach Boys individual letters when I was 14 (in 1993) basically just telling them how much I loved their music. Carl was the only one to respond -- and he sent an autographed picture. That was not only the "professional" thing to do, but honestly just good hearted. I don't buy any book that trashes Carl, sorry. He is a hero.

I think you are ill advised if you think the book "trashes" Carl. It doesn't. Contempt prior to investigation is your loss. It's a pretty darn good book. BTW, that's a lovely story about Carl. I wish I would have heard it before. That's the exact kind of tale we would have gone out of our way to include.

By the way, I had never heard of the Smile site before I was lucky enough to get involved with this project. I was just a guy that loved the Beach Boys music, no matter where or how it evolved. It is part of my musical DNA. I'm touched by the members of this site, whether I agree or disagree with them.
My over riding response is "youse guys rock, good on ya."
That's sounds a bit sappy, so keep on swinging at me, I can take it.

I "investigated" by watching the train wreck of a thread featuring Rocky unfiltered. And I have no contempt for the man or his book, however I also have no interest in supporting such an endeavor.

Ha I appreciate your hustle, but my opinion is this would have been better presented as a total smear of the band, low brow, crazy Rocky tabloid stuff ... with the original WIPEOUT name -- might have been a best seller!
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« Reply #95 on: December 04, 2018, 09:58:41 PM »

"If Mike wasn't such a wanker it would be immensely easier to overlook his lack of any real talent..."


If someone famous didn't actually say that, they should have!


Was that me?
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« Reply #96 on: December 05, 2018, 07:27:16 AM »

I think you are ill advised if you think the book "trashes" Carl. It doesn't. Contempt prior to investigation is your loss. It's a pretty darn good book. BTW, that's a lovely story about Carl. I wish I would have heard it before. That's the exact kind of tale we would have gone out of our way to include.

By the way, I had never heard of the Smile site before I was lucky enough to get involved with this project. I was just a guy that loved the Beach Boys music, no matter where or how it evolved. It is part of my musical DNA. I'm touched by the members of this site, whether I agree or disagree with them.
My over riding response is "youse guys rock, good on ya."
That's sounds a bit sappy, so keep on swinging at me, I can take it.

Ideally we could all get a good sampling of the book (the "Look Inside!" bits on Amazon don't really offer enough), and I don't think anybody who hasn't read the book is trying to give it a full review.

But when you say things like this in a previous post:

Now, there's no doubt that Carl and Dennis were talented and both superior musicians, but they were not consummate professional entertainers consistently. Say what you will. MIKE LOVE WAS.

People get understandably nervous or skeptical reading stuff like that, because it seems as though you're offering a sort of "big picture" assessment of them. And if that's the case, then the statement above is grossly and demonstrably false. Carl perhaps above all else was noted for his professionalism and consistency on stage. Indeed, a main criticism of Carl (and the other guys, including Mike) in the later era (e.g. 90s) was that, at worst, they were sometimes simply on "autopilot" doing shows. The setlist might be stale, the performances perhaps a bit rote. But what Carl never was outside of that *very brief* era in 1977-78 was unprofessional or inconsistent.

Are you familiar with the band's 1981 tour? Go watch a 1979 or 1980 show, and then check out a 1981 show after Carl left. The band almost literally fell apart musically. With Mike running full steam in 1981 without Carl, the band was the exact opposite of professional and consistent. It was trainwreck status.

If all of these characterizations of Carl *are* only in reference to 1977-78, then of course it's all being overblown and overstated and overemphasized.

Whether it's actually the case or not, this book is coming across as being written by someone who had little "hardcore/scholarly" knowledge of the band, then used Pamplin's small window of intimate familiarity with the band (not coincidentally including that same 1977-78 timeframe), and is using that small timeframe to make larger, more broad judgments and assessments of the band.

That all being said, even noted Beach Boys author Jon Stebbins pointed out in his Dennis Wilson biography that really the *only* person holding that 1978 Australian tour together was Al Jardine. Carl was out of commission, Brian was lost, Dennis was actually on extant footage/audio the most "together" of the three Wilsons, Mike's shtick was wearing thin (nobody was into hearing "Country Pie" a year after "Pacific Ocean Blue"), and it was Al Jardine by default holding the thing together with scotch tape and glue. The same thing was true in 1981.
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« Reply #97 on: December 05, 2018, 09:56:06 AM »

If you are looking for nuance, you're not going to find it in Rocky Pamplin. The "Jockstrap Brigade" was appropriately part of the BB's "first as tragedy, then as farce" cartoon re-enactment of their previous fall from the heights. Instead of Lorren Daro and Terry Sachen as agents of discord in the DUMB ANGEL phase of SMiLE, you have dim-witted enforcers employed by one faction attempting to "manage" the preternaturally wily Brian via Keystone Kops-inspired thuggery, all while Carl had his own personal meltdown as the Love/TM faction made its move.

How could Carl NOT have finally had such an episode, given how hard he'd worked to lead the band through its wilderness, only to have that all get set aside in the double maelstrom of ENDLESS SUMMER and Landy I, two unstoppable forces that led to "Brian is Back" and a level of discord that arguably exceeded the conflagrations of the Rieley era? Even a nuanced observer might not have grasped all of this as it suddenly enveloped Carl, temporarily making him as vulnerable to the addictive tendencies in the Wilson clan, propensities already thoroughly explored by his brothers.

Rocky's only possible value would have been to bite the hand that fed him--the Love faction. Failing that, he's nothing but a footnote to a sad but farcical period in BBs history that saw Brian backslide, Dennis self-destruct, all while the group coasted, putting out a series of "meh" (at best) records (MIU, LA, KTSA) via an process of mediocre homogenization (first by the TM faction, followed by Bruce).

All of the above is way over Rocky's head, of course--and absent any way of synthesizing anything he saw, it's not surprising that his recollections--either as an abrasively entertaining troll here, or as "cleaned up" by a ghost-writer--are so spectacularly tone-deaf.

Time to move on, folks...
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« Reply #98 on: December 05, 2018, 10:54:06 AM »

Guy trashes the most loved and respected members of a group. Entire message board rallies against said trashed members of the group and puts the guy in his place. Guy comes back with his tail between his legs saying "Oh, I'm sorry, you're right. They really were great guys!!". This is a most entertaining thread.  Grin

But ...said "guy" is stickin' to his story 'cause the 'con' job has not only been swallowed whole but it's been completely digested and then, as a result, subsequently crapped out and used to fertilize more of that same supposed 'shinola' which has been published and even called a "book"...by some.  That the so-called "book" is the equivalent of the exact same 2-part made for TV B.S.-'fest' referred to in this specific thread is not to be construed as a problem though as the individual in question here is willing to 'take' our fan-worthy abuse' in order to further sales.

Well good fuckin' luck with THAT!!!

I don't mind taking shots from you guys. But I repeat, contempt prior to investigation is unfair and quite honestly BS.
I was in the music business for a while and moderately successful. Managed a group called Bloodstone for years and eventually produced a musical comedy titled "Train Ride to Hollywood" starring the band.
My overview on what Rocky recounted to me is a stone cold professional's assessment of the Beach Boys history. Walk a mile in my shoes and read the book before you stomp on me.
Otherwise, you're the one blowing smoke.
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« Reply #99 on: December 05, 2018, 10:58:01 AM »

Is the clown beating covered in the book?
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