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640765 Posts in 25595 Topics by 3639 Members - Latest Member: treblephone December 10, 2018, 09:51:24 AM
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Author Topic: Rocky Pamplin's THE BEACH BOYS' ENDLESS WAVE completed and published  (Read 7042 times)
GhostyTMRS
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« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2018, 03:16:34 PM »

Ugh.
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Reynaldo
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« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2018, 05:01:08 PM »

I'll ask my question again, to Ron:

Unless I'm not remembering this correctly (and I can go back to find some of the quotes time-permitting), when Rocky was posting here and teasing the forthcoming book a few years ago, some posters were asking for more details about Mike's songwriting credit lawsuit in the early 90's. I could have sworn there were mentions made of this topic that would be discussed in the book to come, and we'd have to read it for more info.

The publisher and I chose to refocus the book.

So now the book has come out, and the lawsuit issues seem to have been chopped out of the final version. If I'm remembering correctly, why was this topic mentioned and teased (whether by Stan or Rocky or whoever else is/was connected) when it's not a part of the book?

What happened in the interim?

In the interim while the original manuscript was being edited I had occasion to talk to Rocky over about 20-25 hours. During this time I realized that Rocky's memory was quite amazing and then something much more subtle and interesting emerged. It turned out that what was in the original manuscript and what was really the story that we chose to focus on were quite different. During those hours I found a much more interesting and revealing portrait of the Beach Boys WHICH WAS NOT REVEALED IN THE VERSION I WAS READING. Over and over I found myself saying to Rocky, "that ought to be in the book." When the edited version came in I asked Rocky for permission to take a pass at the book. He was suspicious at first but as I turned in chapters he was amazed that what he had told me could be folded into the book and a much different book emerged. So different that he eventually invited me to share the author credit with me. I was happy to do so.

And a postscript, I find it both ironic and comical that it seems some were trying a preemptive move to discredit Rocky and/or Stan perhaps because of concerns with the portrayal of Mike based on comments from Stan and Rocky (and Steve), yet the book itself seems to be complimentary of Mike, if anything. Just wondering if those who were launching the preemptive strikes would now backpedal and embrace some of the positive portrayals or if they would stand behind their earlier attempts to discredit Rocky-Stan-Steve and any writings or commentary from them regarding Mike Love.

One of the most surprising things was that Rocky had in fact, enormous respect for Mike Love in myriad ways, respect that I heard over and over again in those long and rambling conversations. Rocky himself was surprised at what he had revealed. We're hoping that it made for a better read.
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Reynaldo
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« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2018, 05:23:11 PM »

Ron,

Since you didn't reply to my earlier questions, I'll ask 'em again and add a few more:

1. The book went from 35 chapters (the titles of which Rocky originally posted on this board) to 28. Does the text in the current book bear much resemblance to the excerpts Mr. Pamplin posted here around three years ago, or was the book partially or completely reworked?

Yes the book was considerably reworked.

2. At one point Rocky described the book as the autobiography of his friend Steve Love. Would you still characterize it as such? What was Steve Love's level involvement in the book. 

We chose to refocus the book. My interaction was with Rocky, not Steve Love. I came to know and respect Steve's management skills through my understanding of the material I heard or saw from Rocky.

3. In his posts of roughly three years ago, Rocky often cast Mike and Stan Love in a negative light, but I see that Stan contributed pics to the book, and Ian says Mike was cast only in a positive light. How do you account for this change? Other than the pictures contributed by Stan, were either he or Mike involved in determining the content of the book?

As I mentioned, my understanding of the material based on my conversations with Rocky revealed a different story, one I don't think that Rocky was completely aware of himself.

4. Moderators, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's OK for Ron to post info Rocky told him about the book (eg, "Concerning the book, Rocky told me blah blah blah") as long as Ron does not act as a conduit for Mr. Pamplin to engage in back and forth conversation with members of the board.

I'm a guest on this site. I'll answer for myself, which is all I can do really.

5. Ron, I'm assuming you have read Rocky's posts in Rocky Pamplin Book About the Beach Boys? and Is Steve Love a Credible Source? and are thus well aware of the fact that your writing style is completely different from Mr. Pamplin's. Due to a number of his past actions (involving Carl, Dennis, and Marilyn), Rocky received justifiable criticism from members of this board, but he frequently responded with rather juvenile sounding posts and name calling - certainly a poor course of action for someone dealing with people to whom he is hoping to sell his book. How would you characterize Mr. Pamplin's demeanor and personality in your dealings with him?

I did not read all of the interplay between Rocky and the site. Judging in is as I stated, above my pay grade.
Rocky is one of a kind, passionate, explosive, bombastic, and entertaining in the extreme. I've grown quite fond of hm.

I'm a different sort of guy in many ways. I think it is a collaboration that people will enjoy on a subject that is fascinating.



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Reynaldo
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« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2018, 05:37:24 PM »

Ron, were you a Beach Boys fan before working on the project? What did you see in that thread about the book that made you want to get involved?

Ahh, I'm just getting the hang of this site and how to reply.
Sorry if I confused things in previous posts.

To answer, I was an enormous Beach Boys fan. Their music was a part of the audio history of my life. I knew very little about them, just loved the music.

When I read Rocky's original manuscript I could see there was something there. I didn't particularly like the tone and I came to find out as I've explained elsewhere, that the actual story was much more interesting than what was on the page.
A publisher agreed and then commenced the long and winding road which the book took on its' way to the version now available.

Because I "had no dog in this fight" I was able to help shape the book into what we hope is an insightful and entertaining read.
I came away with nothing but respect for everyone in the book, warts and all. It's a very human story about a bunch of kids that suddenly became international stars, in show business terms, pretty much overnight.
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Reynaldo
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« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2018, 05:42:23 PM »

Unless I'm mixing up discussions from a few years ago, or maybe it was something Stan wrote independent of this book, but wasn't there supposed to be some more detailed information on Mike's early 90's song credit lawsuit and some possible behind-the-scenes activities and details related to that case? I seem to remember some posts asking for more info after the topic was mentioned and it kept coming back as replies suggesting "wait for the book"...Is there any info on that topic and the lawsuit in this book or would that be something else?

The publisher did not want a book that explored that particular area so we stuck with a more "human" story.
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marcella27
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« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2018, 10:57:17 AM »

I bought it and read it. Iíll admit it is entertaining and interesting but I wish it didnít leave such a bitter aftertaste-the portrayal of Dennis and Carl are almost wholly negative (Mike only positive). Obviously this is Rockyís experiences but the book needs some balance. A few tacked on words about how Carl And Dennis were not that bad just didnít cut it

Can you let us know what it says about Carl?  I'm interested, as I've almost never seen anything negative about him.  I don't want to shell out money for this book, for reasons that are probably obvious, but I have to admit I'm curious about this book's spin. 
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marcella27
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« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2018, 11:06:17 AM »

I just read the foreword, called "Call us the Guardian Angels", which should tell you something right there, on Amazon.  "The Beach Boys stayed alive on the back of Mike Love's charismatic lead singing and hard-working stage presence, becoming widely respected for their constant touring and great concerts". 

Are you ****ing kidding me? 

I guess Carl's singing had nothing to do with it.  Nor did his producing, arranging, guitar-playing or band-leading. 
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The LEGENDARY OSD
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« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2018, 11:59:35 AM »

I just read the foreword, called "Call us the Guardian Angels", which should tell you something right there, on Amazon.  "The Beach Boys stayed alive on the back of Mike Love's charismatic lead singing and hard-working stage presence, becoming widely respected for their constant touring and great concerts". 

Are you ****ing kidding me? 

I guess Carl's singing had nothing to do with it.  Nor did his producing, arranging, guitar-playing or band-leading. 

 Based on that lie alone, I'm now completely assured that I won't waste any time reading this POS.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Don Malcolm
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« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2018, 04:00:31 PM »

As someone over on the other board noted in a somewhat different context:

It's a whole lot easier to dump on the character and reputation of someone who's dead and gone than someone who's "well past 65 and still has the jive"....  Cool Guy
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Reynaldo
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« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2018, 05:42:03 PM »

I just read the foreword, called "Call us the Guardian Angels", which should tell you something right there, on Amazon.  "The Beach Boys stayed alive on the back of Mike Love's charismatic lead singing and hard-working stage presence, becoming widely respected for their constant touring and great concerts".  

Are you ****ing kidding me?  

I guess Carl's singing had nothing to do with it.  Nor did his producing, arranging, guitar-playing or band-leading.  

Wow. That could be a bit short sighted. Carl and his enormous contribution to the Beach Boys is well documented in the Book.

Ron
« Last Edit: November 23, 2018, 05:44:53 PM by Reynaldo » Logged
Reynaldo
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« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2018, 05:51:55 PM »

As someone over on the other board noted in a somewhat different context:

It's a whole lot easier to dump on the character and reputation of someone who's dead and gone than someone who's "well past 65 and still has the jive"....  Cool Guy

I completely agree. We didn't take any cheap shots at ANYONE in the book. I came away with nothing but respect for all concerned.

Ron
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jackjachman
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« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2018, 07:37:05 AM »

I just read the foreword, called "Call us the Guardian Angels", which should tell you something right there, on Amazon.  "The Beach Boys stayed alive on the back of Mike Love's charismatic lead singing and hard-working stage presence, becoming widely respected for their constant touring and great concerts".  

Are you ****ing kidding me?  

I guess Carl's singing had nothing to do with it.  Nor did his producing, arranging, guitar-playing or band-leading.  

what kind of hot steaming garbage is this? when has pop culture ever embraced Mike as anything more than the awkwardly coordinated, money-loving singer in the band who didn't play an instrument and never knew what to do with his hands? let alone the sole reason the band kept going, considering they "stayed alive" on his back.
I know you wrote a book, and that's cool, but that is straight up not true, especially when Carl has been recognized for decades as the musical director for the touring Beach Boys who worked his ass off to make those shows rock. Mike is not the equivalent of Mick Jagger in the Stones. He is the opposite of Mick Jagger.
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« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2018, 08:09:02 AM »

I just read the foreword, called "Call us the Guardian Angels", which should tell you something right there, on Amazon.  "The Beach Boys stayed alive on the back of Mike Love's charismatic lead singing and hard-working stage presence, becoming widely respected for their constant touring and great concerts". 

Are you ****ing kidding me? 

I guess Carl's singing had nothing to do with it.  Nor did his producing, arranging, guitar-playing or band-leading. 

what kind of hot steaming garbage is this? when has pop culture ever embraced Mike as anything more than the awkwardly coordinated, money-loving singer in the band who didn't play an instrument and never knew what to do with his hands? let alone the sole reason the band kept going, considering they "stayed alive" on his back.
I know you wrote a book, and that's cool, but that is straight up not true, especially when Carl has been recognized for decades as the musical director for the touring Beach Boys who worked his ass off to make those shows rock. He is not the equivalent of Mick Jagger in the Stones. He is the opposite of Mick Jagger.

It's certainly true what you say about Carl - just listening to the '73 In Concert album, his influence is obvious throughout, especially taking into account how many of those songs were rearranged or reinterpreted and made to work in a live '70s setting. Even when he was sick with cancer, he still led the band onstage, doing all the count-ins and driving the tempo with his guitar (and singing great, to boot). Not mentioning his role in the band's revival, legitimacy and consistent popularity as a live act is neglectful.

However, regarding Mike - everyone is entitled to their opinion, and opinions will always differ on this subject, but watching how he works the stage in the opening sequence of the '76 "It's OK" TV special is evidence of Mike's abilities as a frontman (as opposed to "band leader", which was Carl's role). Even David Leaf acknowledged as much when he wrote in his book, "Mike is the man who makes the live shows work" (while rightfully acknowledging elsewhere in the book how Carl took over the role of onstage leader when Brian quit the road). And when Carl left the group in '81, he spoke of having a newfound respect for Michael and his role. Finally, on the 2012 reunion tour (by which time, of course, Mike was no longer strutting and prancing the stage like he did in his thirties), Brian praised Mike as a great front man (if memory serves, this was in a one-on-one interview, rather than an appearance with Mike and the other guys present - so it's not as if he was simply saying something nice for Mike to hear). The fact that both Carl and Brian, after having toured on their own without Mike, expressed an even greater appreciation of what he brings to the live act, says something.

If you ask me (someone who's studied dozens of live recordings and numerous reviews from this era), there were many factors contributing to the success the Boys enjoyed as a live act in the seventies:  Carl's musical leadership skills, Mike's stage presence, Dennis' stage presence, Al's impeccable singing, the magic of Brian's timeless compositions, and the management skills of first Jack Reiley and then James Guercio.
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marcella27
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« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2018, 05:15:56 PM »

I just read the foreword, called "Call us the Guardian Angels", which should tell you something right there, on Amazon.  "The Beach Boys stayed alive on the back of Mike Love's charismatic lead singing and hard-working stage presence, becoming widely respected for their constant touring and great concerts".  

Are you ****ing kidding me?  

I guess Carl's singing had nothing to do with it.  Nor did his producing, arranging, guitar-playing or band-leading.  

Wow. That could be a bit short sighted. Carl and his enormous contribution to the Beach Boys is well documented in the Book.

Ron

I will acknowledge that I havenít read the whole book, just bits on Amazon.  But the sentence I quoted is, you know, a direct quote, in the foreword, which basically sets the tone for the book.  Iím glad that you feel Carlís contribution is documented elsewhere in the book, but stating that the band stayed alive on the back of Mikeís talents (and not mentioning anything about anyone else) is, in my opinion, very hard to swallow. 
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« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2018, 08:11:43 AM »

 Yeah-having read the book-I donít think that you do a great job of making one appreciate Carl-the Carl portrayed in your book is a bit of a sad-sack. Yes there is a tacked on ending-saying he was a good guy-but Rockyís animosity toward him is quite evident
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Reynaldo
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« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2018, 09:30:01 AM »

Yeah-having read the book-I donít think that you do a great job of making one appreciate Carl-the Carl portrayed in your book is a bit of a sad-sack. Yes there is a tacked on ending-saying he was a good guy-but Rockyís animosity toward him is quite evident

It's important to remember that for whatever reason, maybe because Carl liked to drink a bit himself that he and Dennis were not overly helpful in keeping booze and drugs away from Brian. Those 2 would be in an adversarial position with regard to Stan and Rocky, so it was only a natural upshot that there would be friction.
I do know that Rocky was aware of the fact that Carl was the musical leader of the band after Brian left and filled those shoes capably.

I agree with jackjachman's post. (he is clearly very knowledgeable). Wish I could have spoken with him at sometime when I was getting up to speed on the larger dynamics he speaks about. My years as a music and band manager gave me a unique perspective about how much more than just what happens on stage contributes to the longevity of a group. Mike Love's steady hand and mediation practice was a large part of the glue that kept the band together day in and day out, year after year, and not just on stage.
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Reynaldo
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« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2018, 09:41:29 AM »

Yeah-having read the book-I donít think that you do a great job of making one appreciate Carl-the Carl portrayed in your book is a bit of a sad-sack. Yes there is a tacked on ending-saying he was a good guy-but Rockyís animosity toward him is quite evident

In some ways I agree with you. Carl may in fact have been a bit troubled. I never knew the man personally. He was clearly a great musician, but drinking seems to have poisoned his potential along the way.

When Stan and Rocky were on the job, if you helped steer drugs in any way towards Brian, or enabled drugs to head Brian's way by funding Dennis' actions, you could count on  both their animosity. Rocky was a ferocious advocate for Brian and the sequence in Australia is one of my favorite parts of the book. He was, in fact, ferocious to a fault in protecting Brian, and the fallout from that time period had a long lasting effect on Stephen's management tenure.
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« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2018, 11:43:43 AM »



It's important to remember that for whatever reason, maybe because Carl liked to drink a bit himself that he and Dennis were not overly helpful in keeping booze and drugs away from Brian. I never knew the man personally. He was clearly a great musician, but drinking seems to have poisoned his potential along the way.

 Mike Love's steady hand and mediation practice was a large part of the glue that kept the band together day in and day out, year after year, and not just on stage.

And you had the audacity to question my associations?  Again...and I quote..."I never knew the man personally."  I did.  Your credibility is questionable at best.  The source of your information is, as he always was, biased.  And your 'take' on cousin Michael is laughable.  You're doing an even worse job of selling books here than the obviously untrustworthy Rocklette did back prior to his 'dismissal'..
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« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2018, 06:24:14 PM »

Reynaldo, I think if you had known Carl personally, as some of us here did, you'd feel a lot more sympathetic towards him.
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« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2018, 06:35:38 PM »

I would imagine Al doesnít get great treatment either .
Stephen I believe called him chickens sh*t for finally voting with Carl and Dennis to end the Love / Love/ Pamplin fiasco
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Ian
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« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2018, 06:00:02 AM »

As often is the case-there isnít much discussion of al in the book
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« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2018, 10:25:52 AM »

I have not read the book; I was in fact interested in it way back when Rocky was posting about an upcoming book, because it seemed it would be somewhat of a raw, unfiltered insiderís view.

Would it be out of line to ask/wonder if there were parties (not talking about the publisher) who perhaps ďencouragedĒ a direction to be taken, and for other things to be omitted?  
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« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2018, 12:51:02 PM »

As often is the case-there isnít much discussion of al in the book

And, not coincidentally, Al Jardine is still alive. It's not a coincidence usually when a book takes deceased people to task more than the living.
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« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2018, 08:24:41 AM »

Reynaldo, I think if you had known Carl personally, as some of us here did, you'd feel a lot more sympathetic towards him.

I would have liked to have known Carl. He was a great guitar player and singer and had a huge influence on the sound of the band.
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« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2018, 08:36:06 AM »

As often is the case-there isn’t much discussion of al in the book

And, not coincidentally, Al Jardine is still alive. It's not a coincidence usually when a book takes deceased people to task more than the living.

We sent a book to Al and are looking forward to his response. He is often overlooked and his influence diminished. Since the book's point of view came from Rocky who was "embedded" at Brian's house, most of the material begins there. Al was a powerful musical influence in his own right, always has been, and in fact, still is.
In many ways, the Wilson brothers and Mike Love received most of the attention just because that's the way the world is and not because of who was deserving of credit. Al was indeed overlooked in many ways. Had to be a bit of a precarious spot for him to be in. The focus fell elsewhere but his guitar playing was integral to the live sound. He was there on stage "laying it down." HE WAS THERE!! Can't take that away from him no matter how fickle the world of the press, etc can be.
I have not read the book; I was in fact interested in it way back when Rocky was posting about an upcoming book, because it seemed it would be somewhat of a raw, unfiltered insider’s view.

Would it be out of line to ask/wonder if there were parties (not talking about the publisher) who perhaps “encouraged” a direction to be taken, and for other things to be omitted?   

Rocky and I talked a lot about the direction the final draft of the book would take along with the editor who was also instrumental in creating the tone. We decided that we didn't want to include certain behind the scenes information. There were many reason, not just the Publisher's request for a certain kind of book, but in my case, a desire to create a book that was more in line with the beauty, joy, and spirit of the Beach Boys' music and their influence. Mention the Beach Boys, and as a friend was saying to me yesterday, a sunny smile of fond remembrance is most often the first response, as in, yeah, loved those guys! We didn't want to mess with that, out of fondness and  respect for the "big picture" of one of the great musical phenomenons out there. Sappy, sure, some could say that, but just maybe that's not a bad thing. In any case that's the direction that often guided us.

I'd like to hear more from the people that have personal stories of knowing the band members. I didn't. I've only been around Brian once, at an Academy screening of "Love and Mercy," where he was on a panel after the screening. What I remember most was that he said the accurate portrayal of Eugene Landy in the pic gave him "the creeps." It was such a sweet, "Brian" thing to say. The guy had some dark times in his life and he seem relieved to have lived through them. Just my impression.
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