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Author Topic: Mike Love is in the white house  (Read 2309 times)
Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2018, 05:00:10 PM »

Some background, please correct if anything is incorrect: The bill being signed addressed copyright and royalty payment issues with a focus on "legacy" artists and the 50-year copyright provisions. I'm thinking it would also affect the way royalties and shares are calculated and how the Beach Boys' "copyright extension" releases which we've been seeing at every 50-year mark get translated into payment for the artists.

Sirius XM was one of the main voices against this bill. A list of major artists who supported it had been published as they all signed some petition of support. The bill passed unanimously in the US House, and the Senate confirmed it. Now it's signed.

It's rather confusing, and I've read through the details multiple times and am still not exactly sure what the actions will be in the wake of this becoming law...but it seeks to update the way artists/writers/creators are compensated for the use and broadcast of their work. As soon as streaming and satellite services entered the game, the way publishers and rights organizations would tabulate "plays" became obsolete, as many guidelines were literally using a standard that existed 40+ years ago, and still used terms like "needle drop" and surveys to calculate how many times a certain record was played and therefore how much compensation the artists are due for those plays and pays.

The bill has Orrin Hatch's name attached as a courtesy since he is set to retire - In other words, symbolic gestures rather than Sen. Hatch actually being the driving force behind a music-driven bill. As far as I know.

But in terms of a bill that sought to get artists a more fair compensation in the modern streaming and digital age, it seems to be a good thing. The public photo-op seen today is just that - The current administration seems to have gathered some of their friends in the music biz for this ceremony. I don't know. But these events are and always were photo-ops and nothing more.

If this gets songwriters, performers, and artists of any kind who created works that are being used and broadcast (digitally or otherwise) for profit more of a fair shake in terms of compensation for using someone's work for profit, it seems to be a good thing.

I never understood why writers and performers who created a work should be so poorly compensated when someone like Sirius XM makes billions on subscriptions and advertising on the backs of those works. But that's me and my 2 cents.

If Mike delivered a speech today I'm curious to hear what he said too, and if he gets in any plugs for his latest projects.  LOL

COMMENT TO GuitarFool2000:  I have an idea that behind-the-scenes activities leading to today's changes to our (USA) copyright law are also in concert with what's going on with the European Union, the two seem to be connected.

Very Important Information >>> https://www.wired.com/story/europes-copyright-law-could-change-the-web/

The changes to our copyright agreements with Europe put the future of sights like mine (swdstudyvideos.com) and this website (smileysmile.net) in jeopardy of being shut down. I suggest, GuitarFool2000,  that you look into the fair use section of these changes, since the Fair Use Doctrine is being modified for Internet use. If it turns out that I must meet all the requirements imposed by these changes, sights like mine will not be available for viewing in Europe and I suspect the same for SmileSmile.net, Pet Sounds Forum, and parts of the Steve Hoffman website.

Mike Love's support of the US changes seems reasonable, but unintended consequences could bring changes to any music expressed on the World Wide Web, thus making the Internet very music unfriendly.

Additional links to the changes affecting you:

https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/17849868/eu-internet-copyright-reform-article-11-13-approved

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/12/article-13-eu-parliament-votes-on-digital-copyright-law.html  


~swd
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 05:02:06 PM by Stephen W. Desper » Logged
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« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2018, 05:13:08 PM »

I dislike Donald Trump very much to say the least, but I certainly won't say this particular law seems like anything but a good thing. If a Democratic president had signed this bill, I imagine most citizen Democrats would applaud that president for doing so.

That said, it's super duper weird to see Mike Love (or any celeb who isn't a politician) standing and speaking at a podium with the US Presidential seal. It's very, very surreal.
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« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2018, 06:22:11 PM »

I dislike Donald Trump very much to say the least, but I certainly won't say this particular law seems like anything but a good thing. If a Democratic president had signed this bill, I imagine most citizen Democrats would applaud that president for doing so.

That said, it's super duper weird to see Mike Love (or any celeb who isn't a politician) standing and speaking at a podium with the US Presidential seal. It's very, very surreal.

Should the lovester have taken his hat off when being in the Oval Office? Just sayin'. I don't know why, but Jeff looks like he planted a huge fart while the picture was being taken.  Shrug
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« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2018, 06:47:50 PM »

I dislike Donald Trump very much to say the least, but I certainly won't say this particular law seems like anything but a good thing. If a Democratic president had signed this bill, I imagine most citizen Democrats would applaud that president for doing so.

That said, it's super duper weird to see Mike Love (or any celeb who isn't a politician) standing and speaking at a podium with the US Presidential seal. It's very, very surreal.

100% agreed in all counts.
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« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2018, 08:10:47 PM »

Some background, please correct if anything is incorrect: The bill being signed addressed copyright and royalty payment issues with a focus on "legacy" artists and the 50-year copyright provisions. I'm thinking it would also affect the way royalties and shares are calculated and how the Beach Boys' "copyright extension" releases which we've been seeing at every 50-year mark get translated into payment for the artists.

Sirius XM was one of the main voices against this bill. A list of major artists who supported it had been published as they all signed some petition of support. The bill passed unanimously in the US House, and the Senate confirmed it. Now it's signed.

It's rather confusing, and I've read through the details multiple times and am still not exactly sure what the actions will be in the wake of this becoming law...but it seeks to update the way artists/writers/creators are compensated for the use and broadcast of their work. As soon as streaming and satellite services entered the game, the way publishers and rights organizations would tabulate "plays" became obsolete, as many guidelines were literally using a standard that existed 40+ years ago, and still used terms like "needle drop" and surveys to calculate how many times a certain record was played and therefore how much compensation the artists are due for those plays and pays.

The bill has Orrin Hatch's name attached as a courtesy since he is set to retire - In other words, symbolic gestures rather than Sen. Hatch actually being the driving force behind a music-driven bill. As far as I know.

But in terms of a bill that sought to get artists a more fair compensation in the modern streaming and digital age, it seems to be a good thing. The public photo-op seen today is just that - The current administration seems to have gathered some of their friends in the music biz for this ceremony. I don't know. But these events are and always were photo-ops and nothing more.

If this gets songwriters, performers, and artists of any kind who created works that are being used and broadcast (digitally or otherwise) for profit more of a fair shake in terms of compensation for using someone's work for profit, it seems to be a good thing.

I never understood why writers and performers who created a work should be so poorly compensated when someone like Sirius XM makes billions on subscriptions and advertising on the backs of those works. But that's me and my 2 cents.

If Mike delivered a speech today I'm curious to hear what he said too, and if he gets in any plugs for his latest projects.  LOL

COMMENT TO GuitarFool2000:  I have an idea that behind-the-scenes activities leading to today's changes to our (USA) copyright law are also in concert with what's going on with the European Union, the two seem to be connected.

Very Important Information >>> https://www.wired.com/story/europes-copyright-law-could-change-the-web/

The changes to our copyright agreements with Europe put the future of sights like mine (swdstudyvideos.com) and this website (smileysmile.net) in jeopardy of being shut down. I suggest, GuitarFool2000,  that you look into the fair use section of these changes, since the Fair Use Doctrine is being modified for Internet use. If it turns out that I must meet all the requirements imposed by these changes, sights like mine will not be available for viewing in Europe and I suspect the same for SmileSmile.net, Pet Sounds Forum, and parts of the Steve Hoffman website.

Mike Love's support of the US changes seems reasonable, but unintended consequences could bring changes to any music expressed on the World Wide Web, thus making the Internet very music unfriendly.

Additional links to the changes affecting you:

https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/17849868/eu-internet-copyright-reform-article-11-13-approved

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/12/article-13-eu-parliament-votes-on-digital-copyright-law.html  


~swd

Stephen, thank you for the links covering the EU rulings and potential consequences for online activity, including the sharing of content.

I am still sifting through the details of today's bill, and it is difficult to find a clear and concise overview without getting into pages of text and legal explanations, or articles filled with prepared statements and quotes from music business execs. I will post several links related to today's bill below.

Two things struck me immediately as I read through various coverage.

First - The passage of this bill and eventual signing into law today was 100% unanimous. Both the US House and Senate passed it with not a single "no" vote, and it was signed into law. With that in mind, I'm trying to remember any standard procedural bills that are not memorials or similar non-legal matters sailing through both chambers with 100% support from all parties. Put this into the political climate of October 2018...it's almost unreal to think everyone would agree. But they did, and that makes me think this bill is something that is not the usual politics and hustle.

Second - Related to that, relative to the unanimous votes, I'm thinking the focus of this new law will not veer into the territory with the EU and European courts have opened with their new laws. We would not see a 100% consensus and passage including the freedom of speech advocates, the centralized government supporters, the less government activists, and those who either thing more regulation or less regulation from the federal government is the best solution. They all agreed, and I think if there were indications that a European model was going to be the template for this bill, you would immediately lose at least half of the Senate, not to mention the House.


About the details - I was amazed to read (and it made me remember) that the impetus or inspiration behind this bill was Flo and Eddie from The Turtles. They brought multiple class-action suits in multiple states (more on that to come) regarding their music and their hits being streamed and broadcast on satellite radio to where they did not see a penny in compensation or royalties. This was due to the loophole which today's new law is supposed to close, where recordings made prior to 1972 would be subject to the same royalty and usage fee schedules as modern recordings.

The Flo and Eddie cases and class-action filings did help to expose this loophole, as well as inform potentially thousands of artists, producers, and writers that large media outlets like Sirius were spinning their records, making money on them, and they had no claim to a share of those profits. Whereas, copyright law was supposed to have provisions to ensure artists would be able to have some control over their works, and be compensated accordingly.

It also exposed - And this to me was a major component of today's law - how these rights and royalty schedules were under the jurisdiction of individual states. These issues could not go to the Supreme Court if necessary, or if appeals were filed...because these were state-by-state laws. So the situation Flo and Eddie faced was having to file multiple suits, in separate states and with separate court jurisdictions.

Flo and Eddie did lose cases and appeals, while others I believe were successful, but again they had situations where they could collect in one state but not another. And the various appeals courts had to rule somehow on states' rights issues while still referencing federal copyright laws, which were antiquated.

A confusing mess. So Flo and Eddie lost, in some bigger cases, but I'm seeing more how they were the driving force to spread the word to others in the industry that there was a serious problem in the existing laws when their copyrighted work could be played endlessly on digital radio and they had no recourse or right to collect anything from those for-profit plays.

What I find interesting too is this will cover pre-1972 recordings, which were not covered prior to the signing. AND - I've seen references to recording engineers and producers now being able to collect royalties on their respective works, of course depending on whatever contracts and agreements were originally or later signed by those parties.

Most of the music we discuss here was pre-1972. Consider how much income - new income - will be generated potentially going to Wilson-Love-Jardine-et al.

Regarding the streaming services, subscription-based digital radio, etc - The law now streamlines how airplay and "needledrops" are calculated and processed by these services. Prior to this, it was apparently a majority of the back-royalty or non-payment after use issues being due to the way these services cataloged and logged airplay numbers. In some cases, they didn't log at all, which meant thousands of writers, performers, and publishers did not get credit if their song was in heavy rotation on any given digital channel or service.

This law sets up a new body consisting of people actually in the music industry who will oversee the next step after the cataloging system and regulations have been streamlined to reflect the digital era. Rates and fees will also rise for those due these payments.

It reminds me of what any school, theater, or venue hosting live performances are doing now regarding payments to the various agencies and publishers. They do not catalog every song performed on their stages, or in their venues, attended by paying audiences. They pay semi-annual "fees" to the various licensing agencies to cover their use (and profit) on the copyrighted musical works. It's more of an averaging situation rather than logging every time a guy with an acoustic guitar plays "Take It Easy" at a bar.

That part of it...I'm leery of. But again I have more digging to do in order to find out more of the details. And the devil, as always, is in the details.

Here are the links. Again, I am amazed to see a full, 100% consensus in American politics at all in 2018, but this was one.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/8479469/music-business-reactions-music-modernisation-act-law-signing

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/trump-signs-music-modernization-act-736185/

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2018/10/11/trump-alongside-kid-rock-signs-music-modernization-streaming-act-into-law/1599350002/

And an old article on the Flo and Eddie class action suits with background (Sirius won that round): https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sirius-xm-holdgs-ruling-turtles/sirius-xm-wins-dismissal-of-turtles-copyright-lawsuit-in-new-york-idUSKBN15V27U
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« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2018, 09:48:37 PM »

At the risk of sounding like an air head um in layman’s terms what does this all mean? What is different for the musical artist and how much more will they make? I saw the dude above made no offense a small pittance I mean thirteen dollars? I am not trying to rub salt in your wounds but ouch. I feel bad now because in college I was Miss LimeWire and BearShare that is how I got into the music that turned me on to The Beach Boys in the first place (for the record I heard a couple of songs of dubious legality back then at a party which is what made me troll for those songs in the first place) I used to think of Metallica and such are rich this is not a big deal not realizing I and so many like myself were taking bread from the table of people like mr moderator.

For the record I bought endless harmony afterwards so I do legally own the different version of Til I Die which was one of the two songs I talked about above so once My Solution is legally released I can purchase it and fulfill my part of the bargain so someone make it happen please.
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« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2018, 10:44:40 PM »

I used to love Napster and all it stood for, and made Metallica out to be the bad guys. It took a long time for me to get how it was a bad thing. Now streaming and file sharing has virtually killed the industry.
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« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2018, 11:16:16 PM »

I was the same way but I ended up buying much of what I heard.

These days, it’s all YouTube for me.

ChewBecca, don’t worry. My stuff was on Spotify , Amazon, and iTunes. Nobody bootlegged it. But I do agree with you about the guilt.

I wonder too how much more money this will put in the artists’ pockets. I love the fact that it was unanimous;it’s democracy at its finest, and that rarely happens in today’s world.
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« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2018, 11:55:16 PM »

I was the same way but I ended up buying much of what I heard.

These days, it’s all YouTube for me.

ChewBecca, don’t worry. My stuff was on Spotify , Amazon, and iTunes. Nobody bootlegged it. But I do agree with you about the guilt.

I wonder too how much more money this will put in the artists’ pockets. I love the fact that it was unanimous;it’s democracy at its finest, and that rarely happens in today’s world.
I use youtube a lot for getting into new music, but I'll probably buy what I hear. Even though I use it on occasion, I hate Spotify and basically all streaming services, for what it represents(i.e. a quick and sometimes free option to get music instantly). Stuff like ITunes and streaming really hit the older generation of musicians, because it took away the option of making a profit from album sales. Today, older acts like CSN/Y(and each member as a solo act) have to tour and hope it generates enough to make a profit.
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« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2018, 12:42:35 AM »

While it seem to be a good thing,  it's strange that Trump has to rely on the same old musicians such as Mike, Sam & Dave, Kid Rock, Mainstream Country guys whose names I forget....

Mike rambling away about Whitney and Czech tours......was he fasting again?  Undecided
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« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2018, 04:59:42 AM »

I dislike Donald Trump very much to say the least, but I certainly won't say this particular law seems like anything but a good thing. If a Democratic president had signed this bill, I imagine most citizen Democrats would applaud that president for doing so.

That said, it's super duper weird to see Mike Love (or any celeb who isn't a politician) standing and speaking at a podium with the US Presidential seal. It's very, very surreal.

100% agreed in all counts.



I just hope that Trump didn't say anything positive about the Beach Boys, because that would certainly generate a sh!tstorm on the Boys.
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« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2018, 06:21:43 AM »

Mike rambling away about Whitney and Czech tours......was he fasting again?  Undecided

The whole event was super weird and awkward. The Whitney Houston anecdote was really super weird and awkward. But then, with Trump standing right next to him, Mike for some reason rambles his way through a 50-year-old story where the RUSSIANS are the bad guys. It's a matryoshka doll of super weirdness and awkwardness.

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« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2018, 07:00:12 AM »

The awkward part that didn't make it into most news reports is the part where Mike started telling the story again of how Donald Trump helped Paul McCartney write "Back in the USSR."

He also threw down the gauntlet, noting how "We continue to do about 180 shows per year. I'd like to see Whitney Houston top that!"

And then the part where Mike and Kanye West pointed out that Dennis Wilson did drugs and drank alcohol, I think that really spoke to the heart of what this new bill is all about....

And somehow he once again managed to call Mick Jagger "chickens**t" for unknown reasons....

Billy Joel will *not* be tickling the ivories in relation to this event I'm guessing......

I thought the speech ended well, with Mike pointing out that his bill will *once and for all* put an end to Al Jardine trying to tour as "Beach Boys Family & Friends"......

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« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2018, 09:12:03 AM »

Jude! Grin
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« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2018, 11:01:46 AM »

The awkward part that didn't make it into most news reports is the part where Mike started telling the story again of how Donald Trump helped Paul McCartney write "Back in the USSR."

He also threw down the gauntlet, noting how "We continue to do about 180 shows per year. I'd like to see Whitney Houston top that!"

And then the part where Mike and Kanye West pointed out that Dennis Wilson did drugs and drank alcohol, I think that really spoke to the heart of what this new bill is all about....

And somehow he once again managed to call Mick Jagger "chickens**t" for unknown reasons....

Billy Joel will *not* be tickling the ivories in relation to this event I'm guessing......

I thought the speech ended well, with Mike pointing out that his bill will *once and for all* put an end to Al Jardine trying to tour as "Beach Boys Family & Friends"......



 LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
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« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2018, 11:33:09 AM »

Is it just me, or does Mike seem slightly giddily star-struck and in awe of Trump, almost how Brian might be of Phil Spector?

I just had a reallllly weird image/sound cross my mind, of Mike taking the place of Marilyn Monroe, serenading Trump with a "Whennnnn.... Happy Birthday, Mr. President" song.

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« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2018, 12:41:46 PM »

No offence to the guy but he is just not a public speaker. He can rattle off the same old stories in an interview but put on the spot he struggles. (not unlike Trump actually)
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« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2018, 04:27:16 PM »

Thx GF and Stephen for all the info on a fascinating and complex subject. It's a bill that went through Congress, so it was bound to be just that.

I hope it manages to serve artists and all who work in the industry, w/out creating major unforeseen problems like the ones Stephen cited. These issues are never easy.

Oh, and the humorous posts were pretty entertaining  Grin 
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« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2018, 09:39:56 AM »

RS's take on the bill signing: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/kanye-west-trump-mma-bill-737276/

Only white guys allowed to attend the ceremony, apparently. They mentioned that neither Kid Rock, nor ML had anything to do with the bill, but there they were. Apparently, it was more important to be politically aligned with Trump. What a surprise.
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« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2018, 11:56:21 AM »

RS's take on the bill signing: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/kanye-west-trump-mma-bill-737276/

Only white guys allowed to attend the ceremony, apparently. They mentioned that neither Kid Rock, nor ML had anything to do with the bill, but there they were. Apparently, it was more important to be politically aligned with Trump. What a surprise.

What? His new BFF Kanye wasn’t invited? George Bush And Donald Trump don’t care about black people. 😂
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« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2018, 12:55:00 PM »

RS's take on the bill signing: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/kanye-west-trump-mma-bill-737276/

Only white guys allowed to attend the ceremony, apparently. They mentioned that neither Kid Rock, nor ML had anything to do with the bill, but there they were. Apparently, it was more important to be politically aligned with Trump. What a surprise.
This is wrong. Sam Moore of Sam and Dave was there and hailed the passage of the bill.
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« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2018, 12:58:07 PM »

Also, Trump gave Sam the pen he used to sign the bill.
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« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2018, 01:43:08 PM »

I sense it is time to bring back my old avatar.
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« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2018, 02:11:36 PM »

While it seem to be a good thing,  it's strange that Trump has to rely on the same old musicians such as Mike, Sam & Dave, Kid Rock, Mainstream Country guys whose names I forget....

Mike rambling away about Whitney and Czech tours......was he fasting again?  Undecided

I’m surprised Ted Nugent’s bigoted ass didn’t show up. Maybe he couldn’t get off work at Dollar General
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RIP Alexa Lestage (8 May 1995- 10 June 2018) .

https://www.gofundme.com/help-support-the-jurkowlaniecs

Quote
Lady:”Sir why you are drowning my son!!! “
Guy:“Maa’m, the ad clearly reads...SEA horse rides for a dollar “
Cabinessenceking
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« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2018, 03:10:44 PM »

I spy Kid Rock, Mike Love and at least a dozen country artists whose names sadly allude me at present. Ted Nugent wasn't present so I can only live in hope that they wheel out the crème de la crème at a later occasion.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 03:27:59 PM by Cabinessenceking » Logged
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