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Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
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Topic: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups? (Read 22514 times)
Stephen W. Desper
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #25 on:
September 22, 2018, 07:20:13 AM »
Quote from: Jay on September 21, 2018, 08:26:56 PM
I remember a story a few years ago that seemed to confirm that a copy of the version of Till I Die with the original lyrics exists. Of course, that doesn't mean that the original master itself was erased.
COMMENT to Jay:
Til' I Die
, the multi-track, the master, and all subsequent actions were under my control until its release. Brian's original vocal on the 16-track was erased by me and replaced with the current version by me, at Carl's direction. To my knowledge and memory, no record of the original lyric exists as any ruff mixdown would have been by my hand. I speak of this issue in Part Two.
~swd
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wjcrerar
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #26 on:
September 22, 2018, 05:04:07 PM »
.
«
Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 05:06:47 AM by wjcrerar
»
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Stephen W. Desper
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #27 on:
September 22, 2018, 06:40:38 PM »
Quote from: wjcrerar on September 22, 2018, 05:04:07 PM
An alternate lyric version with Brian singing "that holds me up" and "I found my way" on the refrains does still exist, because I've been lucky enough to hear it, but it definitely sounds like a rough mix. The vocals are dry and instead of fading the coda keeps going until it hits a dead stop. So
something
is still in the vaults, wherever it came from.
COMMENT to wjcerar: Good, glad to hear something is still around. Nevertheless, it would be a ruff mix that I made very early in the song's beginnings. AND I've just forgotten about it. The song was in the works for months, but then left alone for a long time. In other words, it as in a finished form on the multi-track so no one paid attention to it, working on other songs. Then when it came time to properly mix it down . . .
~swd
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Debbie KL
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #28 on:
September 23, 2018, 01:37:16 PM »
Quote from: Jon Stebbins on September 20, 2018, 10:46:32 PM
John Hanlon told me he was asked by Dennis to put a short guitar solo on the song "Dreamer" and punch out right before Dennis' previously recorded Fender Rhodes piano solo kicked in...Dennis was out of the room and Hanlon spaced and kept playing right through the spot where he was supposed to punch out, and unfortunately recorded over the track that contained the Dennis solo. He had to tell Dennis when he came back that his piano solo was gone. He said Dennis was pretty cool about it because he liked the guitar part.
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Debbie KL
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #29 on:
September 23, 2018, 01:40:25 PM »
Quote from: Stephen W. Desper on September 21, 2018, 11:49:58 AM
Quote from: Tony S on September 20, 2018, 03:48:36 PM
Don't know if this cunts, but taping over Dennis' lead vocal on Sail on Sailor. Why oh why???
COMMENT to Tony S: Because it wasn't good. It only took one take to realise Dennis was not the person to sing lead on this song.
Most leads or instrumental parts that do not please the performer are removed at the performer's request.
Brian's original lyrics and lead for
Til' I Die
that were almost ready for mixdown, were erased to make room for the present version. That was Carl's decision. (More on this in Part two of my book.
I once accidentally did not get out of an insert cut on the multi-track, thus wiping out $5,000 worth of a string sweetening session. (Also more detail in my book)
~swd
Wow, this is a wonderful service for those of us who beat ourselves up for mistakes. You have a valuable courage.
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Debbie KL
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #30 on:
September 23, 2018, 01:49:41 PM »
Quote from: Stephen W. Desper on September 22, 2018, 06:40:38 PM
Quote from: wjcrerar on September 22, 2018, 05:04:07 PM
An alternate lyric version with Brian singing "that holds me up" and "I found my way" on the refrains does still exist, because I've been lucky enough to hear it, but it definitely sounds like a rough mix. The vocals are dry and instead of fading the coda keeps going until it hits a dead stop. So
something
is still in the vaults, wherever it came from.
COMMENT to wjcerar: Good, glad to hear something is still around. Nevertheless, it would be a ruff mix that I made very early in the song's beginnings. AND I've just forgotten about it. The song was in the works for months, but then left alone for a long time. In other words, it as in a finished form on the multi-track so no one paid attention to it, working on other songs. Then when it came time to properly mix it down . . .
~swd
I would call this a bullet dodged, but I'm not certain this was the only tape, nor was this a release: I was at Tandyn Almar's and he told me he had a box of audiotape of Brian doing a vocal with lyrics to "Passing By," developed after it was released without lyrics. He knew that I was an uber-fan who might take on putting the tape back together. I actually spent 2-3 days splicing the wad of tape to put back on the reel. It worked and I got to hear it. I was told by someone here that they had a copy of that tape. I have no idea if it came from the tape I spliced back together (have no idea what Tandyn did with it) or another copy. In any case, it was worth all the work just to hear it.
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The LEGENDARY OSD
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #31 on:
September 23, 2018, 02:19:24 PM »
Quote from: Debbie KL on September 23, 2018, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Stephen W. Desper on September 22, 2018, 06:40:38 PM
Quote from: wjcrerar on September 22, 2018, 05:04:07 PM
An alternate lyric version with Brian singing "that holds me up" and "I found my way" on the refrains does still exist, because I've been lucky enough to hear it, but it definitely sounds like a rough mix. The vocals are dry and instead of fading the coda keeps going until it hits a dead stop. So
something
is still in the vaults, wherever it came from.
COMMENT to wjcerar: Good, glad to hear something is still around. Nevertheless, it would be a ruff mix that I made very early in the song's beginnings. AND I've just forgotten about it. The song was in the works for months, but then left alone for a long time. In other words, it as in a finished form on the multi-track so no one paid attention to it, working on other songs. Then when it came time to properly mix it down . . .
~swd
I would call this a bullet dodged, but I'm not certain this was the only tape, nor was this a release: I was at Tandyn Almar's and he told me he had a box of audiotape of Brian doing a vocal with lyrics to "Passing By," developed after it was released without lyrics. He knew that I was an uber-fan who might take on putting the tape back together. I actually spent 2-3 days splicing the wad of tape to put back on the reel. It worked and I got to hear it. I was told by someone here that they had a copy of that tape. I have no idea if it came from the tape I spliced back together (have no idea what Tandyn did with it) or another copy. In any case, it was worth all the work just to hear it.
Wow, great story Deb. What I wouldn't give to hear THAT! Remember much about it in any way, shape or form?? I always wondered if there were, in fact, lyrics for that song. Were they Brian's or did Mike try to turn it into a surfing song?
«
Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 02:24:32 PM by The LEGENDARY OSD
»
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Stephen W. Desper
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #32 on:
September 23, 2018, 03:53:26 PM »
Quote from: The LEGENDARY OSD on September 23, 2018, 02:19:24 PM
Quote from: Debbie KL on September 23, 2018, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Stephen W. Desper on September 22, 2018, 06:40:38 PM
Quote from: wjcrerar on September 22, 2018, 05:04:07 PM
An alternate lyric version with Brian singing "that holds me up" and "I found my way" on the refrains does still exist, because I've been lucky enough to hear it, but it definitely sounds like a rough mix. The vocals are dry and instead of fading the coda keeps going until it hits a dead stop. So
something
is still in the vaults, wherever it came from.
COMMENT to wjcerar: Good, glad to hear something is still around. Nevertheless, it would be a ruff mix that I made very early in the song's beginnings. AND I've just forgotten about it. The song was in the works for months, but then left alone for a long time. In other words, it as in a finished form on the multi-track so no one paid attention to it, working on other songs. Then when it came time to properly mix it down . . .
~swd
I would call this a bullet dodged, but I'm not certain this was the only tape, nor was this a release: I was at Tandyn Almar's and he told me he had a box of audiotape of Brian doing a vocal with lyrics to "Passing By," developed after it was released without lyrics. He knew that I was an uber-fan who might take on putting the tape back together. I actually spent 2-3 days splicing the wad of tape to put back on the reel. It worked and I got to hear it. I was told by someone here that they had a copy of that tape. I have no idea if it came from the tape I spliced back together (have no idea what Tandyn did with it) or another copy. In any case, it was worth all the work just to hear it.
Wow, great story Deb. What I wouldn't give to hear THAT! Remember much about it in any way, shape or form?? I always wondered if there were, in fact, lyrics for that song. Were they Brian's or did Mike try to turn it into a surfing song?
COMMENT to The LEGENDARY OSD: I always prefered the original set of lyrics to the one Brian eventually came up with. Don't misunderstand, both are quite good, but given a choice . . . ~swd
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Stephen W. Desper
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #33 on:
September 23, 2018, 05:27:06 PM »
Quote from: Debbie KL on September 23, 2018, 01:49:41 PM
I was at Tandyn Almar's and he told me he had a box of audiotape of Brian doing a vocal with lyrics to "Passing By," developed after it was released without lyrics. He knew that I was an uber-fan who might take on putting the tape back together. I actually spent 2-3 days splicing the wad of tape to put back on the reel. It worked and I got to hear it. I was told by someone here that they had a copy of that tape. I have no idea if it came from the tape I spliced back together (have no idea what Tandyn did with it) or another copy. In any case, it was worth all the work just to hear it.
COMMENT to Debby KL: Tandyn Almar use to entertain Brian at his house (off Laurel Canyon, wasn't it?). I'd to go up there and get Brian to come back to the studio for vocals. Sometimes there would be several people up at Tandyn, in full party mood. But, Tandyn had a 4-track, I think it was, that he and Brian would record with -- working on ideas, mostly Brian's. In fact the guys often thought the original lyrics to TID were drug derived. At any rate, Brian would make these recordings at Tandyn's and overdub some ideas. These recordings were completely disconnected from the studio recording of TID. Now I'm wondering if this box of tapes you worked with were actually from those times when Brian was developing his thoughts with Tandyn? I have no facts here, just putting two and two together trying to figure the source of this original lyric recording.
~swd
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c-man
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #34 on:
September 23, 2018, 05:36:44 PM »
Stephen - the way I read Debbie's tale of the spliced tape, it relates to "Passing By", not "Til I Die"...
Legendary OSD - I'm understanding Debbie's tale that these "Passing By" lyrics were written AFTER the instrumental version of the song was already released on
Friends
...and I seem to recall reading elsewhere that they were written as part of that effort to get BW songs recorded by other artists (in a similar way that the lyrics to songs like "Don't Worry Baby" were rewritten so that they might appeal to a wider range of artists who would then potentially cover them)...I believe this might have been after Murry sold the catalog to A&M...
Debbie, am I correct on both counts?
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The LEGENDARY OSD
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #35 on:
September 23, 2018, 06:42:05 PM »
Quote from: Stephen W. Desper on September 23, 2018, 03:53:26 PM
Quote from: The LEGENDARY OSD on September 23, 2018, 02:19:24 PM
Quote from: Debbie KL on September 23, 2018, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Stephen W. Desper on September 22, 2018, 06:40:38 PM
Quote from: wjcrerar on September 22, 2018, 05:04:07 PM
An alternate lyric version with Brian singing "that holds me up" and "I found my way" on the refrains does still exist, because I've been lucky enough to hear it, but it definitely sounds like a rough mix. The vocals are dry and instead of fading the coda keeps going until it hits a dead stop. So
something
is still in the vaults, wherever it came from.
COMMENT to wjcerar: Good, glad to hear something is still around. Nevertheless, it would be a ruff mix that I made very early in the song's beginnings. AND I've just forgotten about it. The song was in the works for months, but then left alone for a long time. In other words, it as in a finished form on the multi-track so no one paid attention to it, working on other songs. Then when it came time to properly mix it down . . .
~swd
I would call this a bullet dodged, but I'm not certain this was the only tape, nor was this a release: I was at Tandyn Almar's and he told me he had a box of audiotape of Brian doing a vocal with lyrics to "Passing By," developed after it was released without lyrics. He knew that I was an uber-fan who might take on putting the tape back together. I actually spent 2-3 days splicing the wad of tape to put back on the reel. It worked and I got to hear it. I was told by someone here that they had a copy of that tape. I have no idea if it came from the tape I spliced back together (have no idea what Tandyn did with it) or another copy. In any case, it was worth all the work just to hear it.
Wow, great story Deb. What I wouldn't give to hear THAT! Remember much about it in any way, shape or form?? I always wondered if there were, in fact, lyrics for that song. Were they Brian's or did Mike try to turn it into a surfing song?
COMMENT to The LEGENDARY OSD: I always prefered the original set of lyrics to the one Brian eventually came up with. Don't misunderstand, both are quite good, but given a choice . . . ~swd
Thanks to Stephen "I was there" Desper . Will we ever hear these things?
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SamMcK
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #36 on:
September 23, 2018, 10:01:09 PM »
Thank you for sharing your incredible memory of those sessions, Stephen! Hopefully we'll be able to hear some sort of a surviving rough mix of 'Til' I Die' when the time comes to celebrate the 'Surf's Up' albums 50th anniversary!
«
Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 10:04:51 PM by SamMcK
»
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #37 on:
September 23, 2018, 10:30:07 PM »
Passing By sounds fascinating
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Jay
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #38 on:
September 23, 2018, 11:12:45 PM »
Indeed it does. There was more than one set of lyrics?
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Aomdiddlywalla
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #39 on:
September 24, 2018, 01:13:40 AM »
While walking down the avenue
I stopped to take a look at you
But you were only passing by....
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wjcrerar
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #40 on:
September 24, 2018, 05:05:01 AM »
.
«
Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 05:05:57 AM by wjcrerar
»
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Debbie KL
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #41 on:
September 24, 2018, 02:20:41 PM »
Quote from: The LEGENDARY OSD on September 23, 2018, 02:19:24 PM
Quote from: Debbie KL on September 23, 2018, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Stephen W. Desper on September 22, 2018, 06:40:38 PM
Quote from: wjcrerar on September 22, 2018, 05:04:07 PM
An alternate lyric version with Brian singing "that holds me up" and "I found my way" on the refrains does still exist, because I've been lucky enough to hear it, but it definitely sounds like a rough mix. The vocals are dry and instead of fading the coda keeps going until it hits a dead stop. So
something
is still in the vaults, wherever it came from.
COMMENT to wjcerar: Good, glad to hear something is still around. Nevertheless, it would be a ruff mix that I made very early in the song's beginnings. AND I've just forgotten about it. The song was in the works for months, but then left alone for a long time. In other words, it as in a finished form on the multi-track so no one paid attention to it, working on other songs. Then when it came time to properly mix it down . . .
~swd
I would call this a bullet dodged, but I'm not certain this was the only tape, nor was this a release: I was at Tandyn Almar's and he told me he had a box of audiotape of Brian doing a vocal with lyrics to "Passing By," developed after it was released without lyrics. He knew that I was an uber-fan who might take on putting the tape back together. I actually spent 2-3 days splicing the wad of tape to put back on the reel. It worked and I got to hear it. I was told by someone here that they had a copy of that tape. I have no idea if it came from the tape I spliced back together (have no idea what Tandyn did with it) or another copy. In any case, it was worth all the work just to hear it.
Wow, great story Deb. What I wouldn't give to hear THAT! Remember much about it in any way, shape or form?? I always wondered if there were, in fact, lyrics for that song. Were they Brian's or did Mike try to turn it into a surfing song?
I remember that Brian was in excellent voice and Tandyn told me he had done the lyrics. I somehow remember, this much, "Somewhere along the avenue, I stopped to have a look at you, I didn't know we were just passing by." I don't know much beyond that...wish I did. It was worth all that work.
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Debbie KL
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #42 on:
September 24, 2018, 02:35:33 PM »
Quote from: Stephen W. Desper on September 23, 2018, 05:27:06 PM
Quote from: Debbie KL on September 23, 2018, 01:49:41 PM
I was at Tandyn Almar's and he told me he had a box of audiotape of Brian doing a vocal with lyrics to "Passing By," developed after it was released without lyrics. He knew that I was an uber-fan who might take on putting the tape back together. I actually spent 2-3 days splicing the wad of tape to put back on the reel. It worked and I got to hear it. I was told by someone here that they had a copy of that tape. I have no idea if it came from the tape I spliced back together (have no idea what Tandyn did with it) or another copy. In any case, it was worth all the work just to hear it.
COMMENT to Debby KL: Tandyn Almar use to entertain Brian at his house (off Laurel Canyon, wasn't it?). I'd to go up there and get Brian to come back to the studio for vocals. Sometimes there would be several people up at Tandyn, in full party mood. But, Tandyn had a 4-track, I think it was, that he and Brian would record with -- working on ideas, mostly Brian's. In fact the guys often thought the original lyrics to TID were drug derived. At any rate, Brian would make these recordings at Tandyn's and overdub some ideas. These recordings were completely disconnected from the studio recording of TID. Now I'm wondering if this box of tapes you worked with were actually from those times when Brian was developing his thoughts with Tandyn? I have no facts here, just putting two and two together trying to figure the source of this original lyric recording.
~swd
This actually gets more entertaining, even if it was awful. Apparently the 4-track belonged to Brian, and was given to Billy Elder, an engineer down Laurel Canyon Bl. a few blocks from Tandyn's home (Billy was a buddy of his). This agreement was "in exchange for studio time." I saw the 4-track at Billy's. Tandyn also let me see the attorney's letter from one of Marilyn's friends demanding that it be returned, "to avoid further action and embarrassment." Tandyn was very witty and the attorney (if he actually was one) was not witty, and misspelled many words in the letter (it was stunningly stupid). Tandyn sent a reply, something to the effect of, "...I reject the charges but look forward to the embarrassment." The 4-track stayed at Billy's. I think, from what I understood from Brian, he wanted a place to get away and record what he wanted to do without being overruled. I believe Bruce and Terry offered him a similar deal. It never worked out well for Brian.
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Debbie KL
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #43 on:
September 24, 2018, 02:37:17 PM »
Quote from: c-man on September 23, 2018, 05:36:44 PM
Stephen - the way I read Debbie's tale of the spliced tape, it relates to "Passing By", not "Til I Die"...
Legendary OSD - I'm understanding Debbie's tale that these "Passing By" lyrics were written AFTER the instrumental version of the song was already released on
Friends
...and I seem to recall reading elsewhere that they were written as part of that effort to get BW songs recorded by other artists (in a similar way that the lyrics to songs like "Don't Worry Baby" were rewritten so that they might appeal to a wider range of artists who would then potentially cover them)...I believe this might have been after Murry sold the catalog to A&M...
Debbie, am I correct on both counts?
Yes, Stephen. That's what Tandyn told me as well. He said that the people who bought the catalog wanted lyrics to "Passing By."
«
Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 02:42:03 PM by Debbie KL
»
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Debbie KL
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #44 on:
September 24, 2018, 02:38:41 PM »
Quote from: Aomdiddlywalla on September 24, 2018, 01:13:40 AM
While walking down the avenue
I stopped to take a look at you
But you were only passing by....
This is very similar to what I heard on that tape, if not exactly what I heard on tape. I'm working off memories decades old without the recording.
«
Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 02:40:11 PM by Debbie KL
»
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CenturyDeprived
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #45 on:
September 24, 2018, 04:14:19 PM »
Quote from: Debbie KL on September 24, 2018, 02:35:33 PM
I think, from what I understood from Brian, he wanted a place to get away and record what he wanted to do without being overruled.
If *anyone* deserved this (total creative control/freedom from agenda-driven bandmates/politics), it's Brian.
That he had to go through all sorts of hoops to attain that freedom bugs me and should bug everyone too. It's beyond ridiculous the crap he had to go through and egos he had to put up with. Urgh.
</rant>
(thanks again Debbie for your amazing stories and recollections).
«
Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 04:15:43 PM by CenturyDeprived
»
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #46 on:
September 24, 2018, 05:23:06 PM »
^Agreed CD
Debbie, as usual thank you so much for sharing your recollections!
«
Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 05:23:56 PM by ♩♬☮ Billy C ♯♫♩☮
»
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The LEGENDARY OSD
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #47 on:
September 24, 2018, 07:19:44 PM »
Quote from: CenturyDeprived on September 24, 2018, 04:14:19 PM
Quote from: Debbie KL on September 24, 2018, 02:35:33 PM
I think, from what I understood from Brian, he wanted a place to get away and record what he wanted to do without being overruled.
If *anyone* deserved this (total creative control/freedom from agenda-driven bandmates/politics), it's Brian.
That he had to go through all sorts of hoops to attain that freedom bugs me and should bug everyone too. It's beyond ridiculous the crap he had to go through and egos he had to put up with. Urgh.
</rant>
(thanks again Debbie for your amazing stories and recollections).
Absolutely! Thanks for bringing it home, Deb. CD, I had identical feelings about this as well. Totally sickening and ludicrous that Brian had to resort to this stifling exercise to explore his own music in secret. Disgusting to say the least and let me guess who was the sh*thead who had the gonads to even think of trying to throw a towel over the creativity of such an artist. myKe luHv anyone??
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Lee Marshall
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
«
Reply #48 on:
September 24, 2018, 11:36:34 PM »
Quote from: The LEGENDARY OSD on September 24, 2018, 07:19:44 PM
myKe luHv anyone??
No thanks OSD. I bought 'the patch'. And I chewed the gum. I've pretty much had 'it' under control since 1976. That said
"The critical list" takes on a whole new meaning ... say what?
«
Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 11:40:11 PM by Lee Marshall
»
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"Add Some...Music...To Your Day. I do. It's the only way to fly. Well...what was I gonna put here? An apple a day keeps the doctor away? Hum me a few bars." Lee Marshall [2014]
Donald TRUMP! ... Is TOAST. "What a disaster." "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE." "Lots of people are saying it" "I will tell you that." Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason. B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!! Adios!!! Bon Voyage!!! Toodles!!! Move yourself...SPANKY!!! Jail awaits. It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse. The Russian Mafia!! Conspiracies!! Fraud!! This racist is goin' down...and soon. Good Riddance. And take the kids.
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Re: Beach Boys studio disasters and screwups?
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Reply #49 on:
September 25, 2018, 08:36:59 AM »
Quote from: CenturyDeprived on September 24, 2018, 04:14:19 PM
Quote from: Debbie KL on September 24, 2018, 02:35:33 PM
I think, from what I understood from Brian, he wanted a place to get away and record what he wanted to do without being overruled.
If *anyone* deserved this (total creative control/freedom from agenda-driven bandmates/politics), it's Brian.
That he had to go through all sorts of hoops to attain that freedom bugs me and should bug everyone too. It's beyond ridiculous the crap he had to go through and egos he had to put up with. Urgh.
</rant>
(thanks again Debbie for your amazing stories and recollections).
I have to say the story about Bruce and Terry at the time was that they gave Brian $50K to record, but the money was "found out" and removed from the account. I've heard other stories since. I have no idea which is true, particularly since I can't remember who told me this. Oh, well. I do remember Terry coming over to Brian's, and he couldn't stop smiling when he saw Brian. I think he really was in awe and adored Brian at that time, by his expression. That's why I feel a bit guilty when I talk about the production on SIP, but I can't help what it sounds like to me.
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