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650717 Posts in 26004 Topics by 3711 Members - Latest Member: JPP4 September 21, 2019, 05:06:29 PM
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Author Topic: Brian Wilson - 2019 Tour Thread  (Read 47415 times)
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« Reply #575 on: September 08, 2019, 02:53:39 PM »

Honestly, I’ve never seen a successful back surgery; guess it all depends on the definition. From my own experience neck and back problems are life long. Back surgery seems to be more about delaying the pain from getting worse until it’s time for the next one.

So yeah thats one thing I do disagree with.

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« Reply #576 on: September 08, 2019, 04:56:59 PM »

Honestly, I’ve never seen a successful back surgery; guess it all depends on the definition. From my own experience neck and back problems are life long. Back surgery seems to be more about delaying the pain from getting worse until it’s time for the next one.

So yeah thats one thing I do disagree with.

But if that was what they were hoping for then they wouldn’t be incorrect in saying it was successful....we don’t know what their definition of successful was in this case so it’s not really fair to judge their comments based on so little information. In my opinion, any surgery that you walk away from alive and in better shape than you would’ve been had you not gotten the surgery is a successful surgery.
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« Reply #577 on: September 08, 2019, 05:05:33 PM »

True
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« Reply #578 on: September 08, 2019, 06:08:40 PM »

Alan White of YES will be joining the legendary Brian Wilson and his Band on stage Monday, September 16th at the Paramount Theatre in Seattle WA. Show starts at 7:30PM.


https://twitter.com/yesofficial/status/1170064054657912832
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« Reply #579 on: September 08, 2019, 06:49:51 PM »

Wow....
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« Reply #580 on: September 09, 2019, 03:10:52 AM »

Looks like Darian is doing a bit of OT with The Zombies this tour. I do remember him working with them in the past.

https://youtu.be/I1ZvqFpSRp8
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« Reply #581 on: September 09, 2019, 07:11:14 AM »

Not able to post it but on Brian's FB page is he and the band rehearsing In My Room. Beautiful. Just what I needed this morning.  Smiley
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« Reply #582 on: September 09, 2019, 08:24:02 AM »

Not able to post it but on Brian's FB page is he and the band rehearsing In My Room. Beautiful. Just what I needed this morning.  Smiley

https://www.facebook.com/officialbrianwilson/

Thanks; very nice!

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« Reply #583 on: September 09, 2019, 08:29:17 AM »

Not able to post it but on Brian's FB page is he and the band rehearsing In My Room. Beautiful. Just what I needed this morning.  Smiley

https://www.facebook.com/officialbrianwilson/

Thanks; very nice!

Man that's beautiful! Thank you both for sharing!
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« Reply #584 on: September 09, 2019, 08:35:36 AM »

Regarding Brian’s back surgeries, while I have no info specific to his situation, I can reiterate what Billy said. Back surgeries in Brian’s scenario typically don’t lead to huge tangible *improvements*; there’s rarely a “getting 100% better” situation, especially when it comes to an older person getting surgery after years or decades of issues. I suppose, if you were super young and had some specific immediate injury, there might be a more noticeable relatively “full recovery” in certain circumstances.

But degenerative back issues, and/or injuries followed by long-term problems and then eventual surgery, are indeed as Billy mentioned often about simply keeping from getting worse. A “successful” back surgery often consists of: A) Not dying during surgery or having any complications and B) In the more long term, keeping the back issue from getting worse. And maybe C) A measured drop in severe pain experienced prior to surgery.

I’m not saying there can’t be varying degrees of tangible improvement. Brian may well be in less pain post-surgery than he was at some point prior. But, especially in a near-80-year-old with long-time back problems (and a family history, etc.), “successful surgery” doesn’t typically mean he’s going to bounce back to having the back of an 80-year-old with zero back problems.

Folks of Brian’s age sometimes are told to *forego* what would seemingly be a relatively safe surgery for a younger, and/or healthier person, because with advanced age come a wide variety of additional potential surgery complications. That Brian has done numerous surgeries may mean both that he’s otherwise relatively healthy for his age, but also that his back issues have gotten severe enough that the increased risks are outweighed by the necessity for the surgery.

As someone who has known a number of folks with moderate to severe back issues, I can also attest to the fact that often, if not usually, you don’t see either extreme with back issues. Many, many folks with back injuries are stuck in a weird, difficult limbo (no pun intended). They aren’t 100% immobile or bed-ridden, but they aren’t in such great shape either. They are mobile enough to do things, but while still experiencing severe pain. They may not be injured enough to go out on permanent disability, leading to continuing to work and thus the back never getting a proper chance to heal/recover (this last issue is of course *not* an issue Brian is dealing with; he presumably is financially able to not tour or otherwise work). These back issues often involve a lot of half measures and minor relief at best. A lot of over the counter pain killers (and hopefully not heavier stuff, which of course can open up all sorts of additional problems) that provide moderate to little relief. A lot of icing and heating the back that often does little. Physical therapy can help, but sometimes back injuries are too severe to do much in that area. Staying active (meaning not literally being immobile in bed) is of course always better, and *that* aspect of all of this when it comes *Brian* is probably the best guess at a justification I can think of for him continuing to be out on the road.
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« Reply #585 on: September 09, 2019, 08:42:08 AM »

How strange to play a tour advertised as highlighting "Friends" and "Surf's up" and then the first songs getting cut from the shows are from these albums.

I was actually surprised there were so many “Friends” and “Surf’s Up” songs on opening night (especially “Friends”), considering the advertising was pretty loose and certainly didn't promise full albums. It makes sense they would drop a couple of those tracks if they needed to drop songs, as the setlist already is quite heavy on deep cuts and is only buttressed with a few “hits” on each end of the setlist.

I don’t know the potential demographic for a 2019 “Zombies” audience, but it sounds like even those fans aren’t necessarily super familiar with stuff like “Passing By” and “Diamond Head.” As much as we want to hear all deep cuts, I predicted a week or more ago that “Passing By” could be one of the first songs to get the axe, whether temporarily or permanently, if the setlist needed to be shortened.

“’Til I Die” is an interesting one. On one hand, he did that song for several years *regularly*; there are ample recordings of it and whatnot. So dropping it isn’t as big of a deal I suppose. However, with Brian still vocally struggling to varying degrees, a song like “’Til I Die” is a good one to implement; it’s mostly a “group vocal”, with Brian adding a few solo lines. So I’d advise keeping the song in, and perhaps adding similar songs (in terms of being group vocals with a few solo interjections) like “The Little Girl I Once Knew”, and maybe even adding something like “Goin’ On.”


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« Reply #586 on: September 09, 2019, 05:19:32 PM »

Is it known when Brian's back problems began? I myself hadn't heard or read any mention of it until the 2012 reunion album and tour. To me, it just seemed to come out of the blue. All this talk about back surgeries and complications makes me curios about how Carl dealt with his own problems with a bad back. We all know how he "treated" it in the mid to late 70's, but what about his later years?
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« Reply #587 on: September 09, 2019, 06:57:10 PM »

I think it's been bothering Brian for a very long time, although it hadn't gotten too too bad until maybe a few years ago (if not more)
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« Reply #588 on: September 09, 2019, 07:46:39 PM »

Is it known when Brian's back problems began? I myself hadn't heard or read any mention of it until the 2012 reunion album and tour. To me, it just seemed to come out of the blue. All this talk about back surgeries and complications makes me curios about how Carl dealt with his own problems with a bad back. We all know how he "treated" it in the mid to late 70's, but what about his later years?

It is reasonably well known that Carl had serious challenges with alcohol in the ‘80s and ‘90s, which may have led to more forceful interventions if his diagnosis hadn’t occurred.
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« Reply #589 on: September 09, 2019, 08:35:34 PM »

I'm somewhat skeptical there....
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« Reply #590 on: September 09, 2019, 10:46:41 PM »

Is it known when Brian's back problems began? I myself hadn't heard or read any mention of it until the 2012 reunion album and tour. To me, it just seemed to come out of the blue. All this talk about back surgeries and complications makes me curios about how Carl dealt with his own problems with a bad back. We all know how he "treated" it in the mid to late 70's, but what about his later years?

It is reasonably well known that Carl had serious challenges with alcohol in the ‘80s and ‘90s, which may have led to more forceful interventions if his diagnosis hadn’t occurred.
I would disagree with that statement. It's been RUMOURED (for example, in Landy's Brian bio) that Carl had a drinking problem in the 80's/early 90's.
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« Reply #591 on: September 10, 2019, 07:05:15 AM »

Trying to parse the deal with Carl and drinking in the 80s and 90s is difficult. I have heard the same vague assertions, and it’s likely there’s some kind of grey area involved. Here’s what we do know: Many if not most “rock stars” who have *serious* drinking or drug problems usually end up displaying that in some form in public. Even those that remain somewhat functional in life and in their profession will inevitably do some interviews or some gigs where it’s clear they’re inebriated. Indeed, both Dennis and Brian had this issue in the 70s and 80s (Dennis more so than Brian on stage), and it’s important to note that Carl also had this issue for a good year or two in the 1977-1978 time frame.

After 1978, I’ve never seen or heard a shred of audio or video from a live gig or interview where Carl seems drunk or high or altered in any way.

To be clear, this doesn’t mean there couldn’t have been a serious issue still behind the scenes. There are certainly people who deal with drug or alcohol issues (or other issues, depression, etc.) who are able to function at “work” and never exhibit any issues until they’re behind the scenes. But, in some cases, folks tend towards one or the other. That is, a person who drinks excessively either is good at hiding it or not. Carl wasn’t in 1977-1978, so I tend to doubt his drinking post-1978 was as excessive, as I don’t think he could have spent the next *TWENTY* years with nary a single gig where he seemed plastered or altered. He may have learned to “hide it” better than he had in 1977/78, but to what degree he could have, I’m not sure.

That being said, I’m in no way in denial; I have the luxury of looking at this all *relatively* dispassionately. I think it’s quite plausible that Carl may have at some point in those final 20 years re-developed an issue with drinking too much, one which may have impacted his health more than his demeanor, and perhaps his non-professional life as well. It’s possible to be a very highly functioning alcoholic. Indeed, that would *have* to the case for Carl, as, again, we have 20 years of gigs and interviews and anecdotes that show Carl to be the seemingly sanest, unaltered personality in the band. Even Mike (even if not due to any chemically altered states) had more odd public moments in those years than Carl did.

Whether Carl’s drinking was severe enough that one could say a full-on intervention was in the offing were it not for his illness, that’s much more difficult to say. Sure, I could envision that it was more dire than we ever knew and those close to him would understandably see *no* reason to delve into that once he was gone.

I should also mention that while nothing of this sort has been mentioned in this thread, I recall a few posts/threads in the past that questioned whether Carl may have been drinking at the very end and whether that would have negatively impacted his treatments, etc. *That* is a much, much more dicey proposition to speculate about, because those with more or less terminal illnesses have a wide variety of personal decisions to make on those types of issues, and in some cases even doctors will advise patients that, sadly, there are certain things (e.g. smoking) that, in *certain* scenarios, would pose so little *additional* problems for a terminally ill person that they should or could just do what they want. Long story short, some folks who don’t have long may choose, with or without discussion with their doctors, to drink or smoke, etc. because all trying to quit will accomplish is make their final days more miserable.

Certainly tough issues to speculate on.


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« Reply #592 on: September 10, 2019, 08:22:02 AM »

I think the one person who could really give us information about carls drinking in those last year's would be Al.  Seems like a very honest down-to-earth guy and I would believe what he said if in fact he said anything good or bad or even in the middle as opposed to Love, who I wouldn't believe one word tgat came out of the guy's mouth or Bruce for that matter. but it's so long ago any demons that are there should be left to lie
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« Reply #593 on: September 10, 2019, 11:31:23 AM »

All I know is that, in the times I found myself backstage during the '80s and '90s, I saw several individuals in the BB-sphere drink alcohol beverages on more than one occasion, but I only saw Carl drink alcohol once. I've heard he drank at parties from a reliable source, but anything else I've heard remains unproven rumor. I still remain skeptical that his drinking reached problem levels in that period, and I don't consider Landy's bio of Brian to be a reliable source.
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« Reply #594 on: September 10, 2019, 11:56:03 AM »

I certainly, to my memory, recall more published accounts and fan encounter accounts from the 80s and 90s of Mike or Bruce drinking back stage than Carl (I recall one article or story, perhaps from the Timothy White or Carlin book?, describing Mike back stage at a gig seemingly going out of his way to take his drink and transfer it to an inconspicuous paper or plastic cup). Few stories of Carl may have as much to do with Carl just being more private in general.

I would just have to wonder how acute a drinking problem could be for someone who was touring *a lot* during those nearly 20 years from 1979-1997, often nearly all year every year, and never exhibited any sign of a drinking problem on stage or in interviews during all that time, *after* having  exhibited perhaps (ironically considering he was vying with Dennis and Brian) the most egregious public drunkenness on stage in the history of the group during those early 1978 Australian gigs.

But again, maybe that teaches someone to get *really* good at compartmentalizing and hiding it, I dunno.
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« Reply #595 on: September 10, 2019, 10:37:36 PM »

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« Reply #596 on: September 11, 2019, 06:59:10 AM »

For what it's worth, someone in the BB community that many people trust (and miss dearly) told me that the famous "drunk" concert in Perth in 1978 wasn't alcohol but Carl sharing his brother Brian's habit of snorting heroin; he was strung out, not drunk. The "two maitais and a Valium" thing was just a fabricated excuse.
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« Reply #597 on: September 11, 2019, 10:08:45 AM »

I'm sure nobody knows for sure, but I'd wager alcohol was *also* flowing freely for those gigs.

I'm not an expert on the different potential reactions to any given drug. Does heroin typically leave you sounding like "Elmer Fudd on valium"? It's very much like the slurring and mush-mouthed ramblings of someone who is drunk and/or on some sort of narcotic I guess.

What made those Carl gigs so particularly problematic was that he was somehow *hugely* compromised, yet was still managing to stay standing (mostly) and (mostly) *remembering* the words to the songs. As if he ingested just enough of whatever substances to be as wasted as possible while staying functional enough to trudge through those gigs.

Of course, in at least one case, he apparently did literally keel over.

What a weird time, and a weird band. To *not* cancel or reschedule those gigs. I know David Frost was pushing them hard to do the gigs and to keep Dennis a part of it, and despite apparently *witnessing* some of those backstage incidents, wanting to keep the tour going. But they just kept doing the gigs, even when *video cameras* rolled on at least one if not several shows. And to a more general point, these guys didn't cancel gigs even when members *did* miss shows. Mike has strep throat or has to do some Beach Band gigs in Japan? Meh, have Al sing the songs. Carl's gone for an operation? Just have other guys sing his stuff and bring in a temp lead guitarist. Al misses some shows? Meh, Matt Jardine can sing his leads.
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« Reply #598 on: September 11, 2019, 10:38:48 AM »

I'm sure nobody knows for sure, but I'd wager alcohol was *also* flowing freely for those gigs.

I'm not an expert on the different potential reactions to any given drug. Does heroin typically leave you sounding like "Elmer Fudd on valium"? It's very much like the slurring and mush-mouthed ramblings of someone who is drunk and/or on some sort of narcotic I guess.

What made those Carl gigs so particularly problematic was that he was somehow *hugely* compromised, yet was still managing to stay standing (mostly) and (mostly) *remembering* the words to the songs. As if he ingested just enough of whatever substances to be as wasted as possible while staying functional enough to trudge through those gigs.

Of course, in at least on case, he apparently did literally keel over.

What a weird time, and a weird band. To *not* cancel or reschedule those gigs. I know David Frost was pushing them hard to do the gigs and to keep Dennis a part of it, and despite apparently *witnessing* some of those backstage incidents, wanting to keep the tour going. But they just kept doing the gigs, even when *video cameras* rolled on at least one if not several shows. And to a more general point, these guys didn't cancel gigs even when members *did* miss shows. Mike has strep throat or has to do some Beach Band gigs in Japan? Meh, have Al sing the songs. Carl's gone for an operation? Just have other guys sing his stuff and bring in a temp lead guitarist. Al misses some shows? Meh, Matt Jardine can sing his leads.

It is indeed very strange that they didn't cancel or reschedule those gigs... but honestly the fact that Carl embarrassed himself publicly onstage like that might very well have been an important factor/tipping point that led to him straightening out in a hurry the way he did. So in a way, it's probably a very good thing for Carl's sake, indirectly, that the shows did in fact go on. It's like he hit rock bottom in front of the world, got called out about it publicly, on camera, in a hotel room, then made the decision to get his life back on track. If Carl hadn't slipped up like that publicly, who knows if he could have spiraled very quickly far worse than he actually did.

Sadly the same wasn't the case for Brian and Denny, who on many occasions (such as the Good Morning America 1980 appearance) were messed up to the point where it was very blatantly obvious, but their demos were such they ignored and were seemingly immune to public embarrassment or shame which they otherwise might have felt.

I think with Carl, he seemed to feel a sense of responsibility to be the one to hold things together in terms of the band's public and live presentation in a manner that his brothers never did, so Australia 1978 was probably his wake up call. In a way, one could almost wonder if there wasn't a subliminal intention on Carl's own part for Carl to show the world how messed up he was in a public setting, in order for it to be a moment where he realized he'd have to get his sh*t in order in a hurry to save himself.

People do strange things as desperate cries for help sometimes without even consciously thinking about it. I cannot imagine how much stress Carl was under at that time in the inescapable and inextricably intertwined sagas of his family, personal life, and career.
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« Reply #599 on: September 11, 2019, 11:55:33 AM »

I remember years and years ago seeing the Australia '78 footage and being of course saddened and surprised at how out of Carl was (and then later to find audio from other gigs on the tour where he sounds MUCH worse than the video). Not too long after that, I also saw the Largo '77 footage, which comes from January 1977, over a year prior to the Australia gigs, and Carl is pretty toasted at that gig as well (not as bad as Australia though). I was surprised that there was a good year to year and a half at least where Carl was having those issues.
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