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Author Topic: Brian Wilson - 2019 Tour Thread  (Read 44041 times)
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« Reply #150 on: June 10, 2019, 09:04:08 AM »


That's absolutely atrocious and from a major media outlet. Reporter and editor should be fired. I mean, what possible excuse can you have for running that piece???

Sue 'em Mike!
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« Reply #151 on: June 10, 2019, 10:31:09 AM »

I would have no problem seeing the BW Band with Al and Blondie, but not sure the more casual fan, or many others, would feel the same. Tuf call either way, butI'd go see them for sure.

There's no way they would try to continue the booking without Brian in attendance. However much we'd love to see Al, Matt, Darian, etc. carry on with the show, and however much an audience would still enjoy a show without Brian there, if Brian didn't show up to a "Brian Wilson" ticketed show, people would complain regardless of how much they may or may not be missing or gaining. Even if the show would be better handing more leads off to Al, etc., and even if a show with Brian there might have him only minimally active on stage, the outcry would be much, much stronger if he wasn't there. It would maybe be different if Brian had formed a band under some band name with Al and Matt and everybody.

I know for years now people have thrown around an idea of a "Brian Wilson Band" tour continuing on without Brian at some point. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it would require some expert promotion and clarification as to what such a band/tour would constitute. The way to start such an enterprise (essentially an authorized tribute show) would *not* be to use it as a replacement for actual "Brian Wilson" shows where he was expected to be there.

Agreed, that would be a non-starter. I certainly understand the wish to have the tour continue, but Brian has built up a considerable brand over the years as a solo artist and something like the scenario described would damage it much more than just postponing some shows.

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« Reply #152 on: June 10, 2019, 11:35:41 AM »

I would have no problem seeing the BW Band with Al and Blondie, but not sure the more casual fan, or many others, would feel the same. Tuf call either way, butI'd go see them for sure.

There's no way they would try to continue the booking without Brian in attendance. However much we'd love to see Al, Matt, Darian, etc. carry on with the show, and however much an audience would still enjoy a show without Brian there, if Brian didn't show up to a "Brian Wilson" ticketed show, people would complain regardless of how much they may or may not be missing or gaining. Even if the show would be better handing more leads off to Al, etc., and even if a show with Brian there might have him only minimally active on stage, the outcry would be much, much stronger if he wasn't there. It would maybe be different if Brian had formed a band under some band name with Al and Matt and everybody.

I know for years now people have thrown around an idea of a "Brian Wilson Band" tour continuing on without Brian at some point. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it would require some expert promotion and clarification as to what such a band/tour would constitute. The way to start such an enterprise (essentially an authorized tribute show) would *not* be to use it as a replacement for actual "Brian Wilson" shows where he was expected to be there.

Agreed, that would be a non-starter. I certainly understand the wish to have the tour continue, but Brian has built up a considerable brand over the years as a solo artist and something like the scenario described would damage it much more than just postponing some shows.



I wouldn't even worry so much about Brian's "brand" being directly damaged. It would just be more of a legal/PR issue for the promoters, venues, and the people still in the band. After Al was unfairly maligned (in my opinion) back in 1999 with his Family & Friends band, I certainly don't think he needs to see any similar stuff coming up trying to go out in Brian's place.

Considering I just caught quickly in passing a *huge* PBS special devoted to a Pink Floyd tribute band, I have to think there would be a market for a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" sort of show, especially with his celebrated backing band plus some extra other Beach Boys. I recognize part of how a Pink Floyd tribute band can be so successful is that Pink Floyd hasn't doing 150 shows per year, every year, for 50 years. There's more thirst for live Floyd music than BBs given how much Mike and Brian have been touring especially lately. There were a couple years there where Brian and Mike combined were probably doing 250-300 shows per year.  Nevertheless, I think a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" show with Al and Blondie (and maybe Dave) plus Brian's band could book venues larger than the clubs Al's solo tour is doing.

I'm not trying to sidestep the prospect of Brian bouncing back to do more shows. But even if he tours several more times, what happens after is something worth chewing on. A few folks have said some of Brian's band have been loosely pitched this scenario, and it sounds like some would go for it while others maybe not.
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« Reply #153 on: June 10, 2019, 12:29:40 PM »

Is it too late for the Zombies to find another act to share the  show with? Ray Davies? Dave Davies? Denny Laine? Paul McCartney?
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« Reply #154 on: June 10, 2019, 01:22:27 PM »

Is it too late for the Zombies to find another act to share the  show with? Ray Davies? Dave Davies? Denny Laine? Paul McCartney?

Brian Wilson was apparently the headliner, so I don't think they would be likely to keep the bookings and replace Brian with another act.

However, I'd have to guess Zombies management is having some discussions with Brian's management at this point, because they *could* look to reschedule an alternate tour (smaller venues by themselves, or pairing up with someone else) in order to not just be out of work for that month when they anticipated working.
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« Reply #155 on: June 10, 2019, 01:35:10 PM »

Personally I think The Zombies with 4 original members reunited was the draw for many this tour.
Simple solution at this late stage. Same venues, Make it clear it’s Brian’s Band with Al and Blondie, The Zombies headline.Refunds offered if that’s not acceptable.
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« Reply #156 on: June 10, 2019, 02:17:10 PM »

Personally I think The Zombies with 4 original members reunited was the draw for many this tour.
Simple solution at this late stage. Same venues, Make it clear it’s Brian’s Band with Al and Blondie, The Zombies headline.Refunds offered if that’s not acceptable.

I wasn't closely following the tour, but folks have said the plan was that Brian was headlining. He was at the top of the poster. I think Brian has generally played larger venues on his own than the Zombies have played on their own. I'm sure they were both draws, hence the pairing.

But, while anything is possible, I would doubt they would or could just do the tour without Brian there. A lot of people buy tickets and never give it another thought until they go to the show. There would invariably be people who show up and hear Brian isn't there and ask for refunds. Promoters/venues don't want that happening literally as the show is starting; they can't sell the tickets at that point to someone else.

If someone can provide some good examples of a solo artist touring under their own name proceeding to keep tour bookings but while sending their band without themselves, I'd be interested to see.

Most *bands* won't do shows if a core/key member can't do the gig. The BBs used to do shows if any one of Mike, Carl, or Al missed a show, and that was a pretty unique exception based on their relentless touring.

Yes, having Al and Blondie on the bill *seems* to make it an easier prospect to continue on without Brian. Us big fans dig Al and Blondie, and we're aware that Al, Blondie, Matt, and Darian vocally carry some of the leads for Brian already. But trust me, it's a big difference when it's an "Al Jardine" show. Brian books theaters and other venues in the several thousand per show on his own. Al Jardine books clubs that seat a few hundred at the most. I would imagine Blondie would be a similar or smaller draw.

To be clear, I've been wishing for years to just see Al front Brian's band and do a setlist of deep cuts and Al-centric tracks, with Matt and Darian and Blondie also singing. Yes, essentially a Brian show without Brian, with perhaps a different setlist focus. But look at Al's history of trying to book gigs on his own. "Jardine & Chaplin" can't book Radio City Music Hall.

I suppose they could reformat the tour to a "Zombies" tour with the Brian-less band as more of an "opening act" sort of thing. But Brian's band is too expensive for what would be a surely much smaller profit split, and you'd still have the problem of people getting a show vastly different from what they paid for.

They can cancel and then re-book new shows and attempt to do anything they want of course.

My guess is that either these shows go on as planned if Brian can do them, or the shows will be canceled and the Zombies will try to pair up with another act to do the package tour, and will have to start from scratch selling tickets. Which is why I'd imagine they probably don't want to and/or can't wait two more months just to find out whether the tour might happen. But we shall see of course.
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« Reply #157 on: June 10, 2019, 02:55:10 PM »

HeyJude wrote’If someone can provide some good examples of a solo artist touring under their own name proceeding to keep tour bookings but while sending their band without themselves, I'd be interested to see.’

TBH I haven’t seriously classed Brian as a ‘solo’ touring artist since 2011 given the leads he has given away, but I see your point.
The only comparison off the top of my head was a group. AC/DC losing Brian Johnson and having Axl Rose take over lead. A much bigger tour financially.

Don’t get me wrong, common sense would be to cancel, and if it was just Brian and his own band that would be the likelihood. But here we have a tour reasonably advanced logistics wise. A second band on pretty much a double bill rather than a headliner. Both were promoted as playing works from 1968.

Between the 2 groups I am guessing we have 6 members in their late 70s. This was always on the cards and not to have a contingency plan would be poor management IMO.
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« Reply #158 on: June 10, 2019, 03:12:14 PM »

I recall hearing about Gene Vincent having a fill in for some dates in Japan, and fans apparently not knowing he was absent:

Despite the final split of the Blue Caps and a lapsed contract with the McLemore Agency, Gene continued to tour extensively. He would either use pick-up bands or The Silhouettes whose drummer, Clayton Watson, introduced Gene to guitarist Jerry Merritt. Merritt became a close friend of Gene and the pair began to tour California and the northwest states. In the summer of 1959 Gene and Jerry took on a three week tour of Japan. Their arrival at Tokyo airport was greeted by over 10,000 ecstatic fans and similar frenzied scenes accompanied each sell-out house throughout the tour. Gene left early and Jerry impersonated Gene for the last three dates. Following their return from Japan, recording dates were arranged at the Capitol Tower for early August.

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« Reply #159 on: June 10, 2019, 04:30:52 PM »

The Gregg Allman Band toured all of 2016 while Gregg was ill without Gregg and played the same venues they originally booked. Now at this point Gregg was more and opening act/club act like Al is now but that’s still a recent example.
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« Reply #160 on: June 10, 2019, 05:26:01 PM »

The Gregg Allman Band toured all of 2016 while
Gregg was ill without Gregg and played the same venues they originally booked. Now at this point Gregg was more and opening act/club act like Al is now but that’s still a recent example.

 Interesting, that is indeed an example I suppose. Although was Greg touring with "band" in the billed name as an artist? Brian performs just under his name, and not with any other words attached to it, which may make for a more tricky situation in how it is perceived.
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« Reply #161 on: June 11, 2019, 06:33:21 AM »

HeyJude wrote’If someone can provide some good examples of a solo artist touring under their own name proceeding to keep tour bookings but while sending their band without themselves, I'd be interested to see.’

TBH I haven’t seriously classed Brian as a ‘solo’ touring artist since 2011 given the leads he has given away, but I see your point.
The only comparison off the top of my head was a group. AC/DC losing Brian Johnson and having Axl Rose take over lead. A much bigger tour financially.

Don’t get me wrong, common sense would be to cancel, and if it was just Brian and his own band that would be the likelihood. But here we have a tour reasonably advanced logistics wise. A second band on pretty much a double bill rather than a headliner. Both were promoted as playing works from 1968.

Between the 2 groups I am guessing we have 6 members in their late 70s. This was always on the cards and not to have a contingency plan would be poor management IMO.

Oh definitely, I think us fans realize that, especially post-C50 with Al and Blondie (and Dave in 2013) in the band, and Darian and Matt (or others) singing more leads, Brian's show has morphed from a true "solo" show as it was in 1999 and into the early 2000s into more of a "group" show. I hesitate to call it a defacto "Beach Boys" show, as Brian's show is more focused on songs he has written (he ignores most BB hits he didn't write or co-write), but it's definitely very much a "Brian Wilson Band" show, and it undeniably fills a similar segment of the marketplace as a "Beach Boys" show. So, as I've been saying, I think we as fans wouldn't see it necessarily as a deal breaker to do the gigs without Brian from a musical/lead vocal standpoint.

But, even with Brian handing off a number of leads to four other guys in his band, they've never moved to call it anything but "Brian Wilson." Most shows don't even co-bill Al (they occasionally have, although I think that has more to do with individual venues; only one ticket I've bought actually says "Brian Wilson & Al Jardine"). It's billed and sold as a "Brian Wilson" concert with "special guests" even after Al has been a full-time member for 5-6 years and plays the entire gig on stage. I would imagine they have done this not only to keep the prestige of Brian's name, but to also allow for them to be able to do shows without Al and Blondie if needed.

But they've never changed the name of the act. They didn't go out as "Wilson-Jardine-Marks" in 2013 or something.

And, not to downplay Brian's role at all, but even going all the way back to 1976, there has been some value and mystique to simply *seeing* Brian on stage in person. I think even in 2019 after he's been touring much more, many casual as well as more-than-casual-but-less-than-hardcore fans buy tickets to *see* him on stage and be in his presence.

While super hardcore Brian-centric fans have warmed to Al (and Blondie), I recall back in 1999-2000 and into the 2000s that some of those super Brian-specific fans weren't super focused on Al Jardine. They may not have gone to Al shows, and even when Al popped up in 2006/07 at some Brian shows, while *I* was stunned and pleasantly surprised, some Brian fans didn't seem to be that impressed and some were even annoyed back then that Al was taking up space on leads in the show (despite being given few leads on that tour and not being given a ton to do; at one point in the 06/07 show for "Marcella", Bennett would come up front to play guitar and Al was stuck in the side/back of the stage playing tambourine).

In any event, we have to remember that there are a good amount of casual (but not as casual as, say, much of the clientele at a Mike show) fans who buy BW tickets and would not buy the tickets if he wasn't there. It's a bummer, but I think that's how it is.

I'm sure all management factions in the BB world have given thought to scenarios where people become temporarily or permanently infirm to where they can't tour anymore. But I think the contingency is just to not book more tours if that comes to pass, or if it happens after a tour is booked, to postpone or cancel shows. Not much else they can do.

Do they have further contingencies? Probably not, for better or worse. I doubt Brian's management has a Brian-less "Brian Wilson Orchestra" fully mapped-out and ready-to-execute plan. Mike would, I can only guess, have probably given some passing thought to what happens after he's out. But that's really at that point not a Mike decision but a BRI corporate decision in terms of the BB name. I've long guessed, based on things I've heard and just my own sense, that there may be a few folks floating around these orbs who could be angling to continue with a "Beach Boys" license without any original members. But they wouldn't be lobbying hard to do so ("Hey, BRI, I'm here when the Beach Boys are all dead!"), but rather would try to just stay close to a member and make themselves as valuable as possible to that organization.

That's of course then not getting into the whole "holograms" thing which apparently is gaining popularity and has seen pretty minimal backlash from fans or critics. Mike was asked about that in an interview not too long ago, and he seemed to not be outright opposed to it.
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« Reply #162 on: June 11, 2019, 06:39:36 AM »

AC/DC, Gene Vincent, and the Gregg Allman band are all interesting examples, and all different.

AC/DC switching lead singers is really a case, perhaps one of very few cases in this age, of a band treating itself the way a band would have decades ago. Meaning, invoking members as "core" members and replacing them the way Roth was replaced by Hagar, or Ozzy was replaced by Dio, etc. Meaning, whereas usually these days when a band gets a new lead singer, say with Journey or Chicago, they don't seek out a Hagar type replacement of equal stature, but instead back-fill the band with a tribute band singer or other unknown who is simply salaried. While Axl Rose was likely financially simply "salaried" for his AC/DC tours, he was more of a high profile "name" replacement. Another recent somewhat similar example would be Fleetwood Mac replacing Buckingham with Mike Campbell and Neil Finn.

The Gene Vincent example is apparently a very early-era example of a pre-internet, casual audience being unknowingly defrauded. A bit similar to the fake "Zombies" that were sent out back in the early 70s or whenever that was.

I'm not a Gregg Allmann band expert, but that example sounds the closest to what it would be like if Brian's tour continued without him. It's still a bit different, as Allmann's band has a "band" name. But, if up to that point that band included its namesake, then that would be a similar scenario.
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« Reply #163 on: June 11, 2019, 09:55:41 AM »

Re: The Gene Vincent example, that kind of thing was likely easier to do back in the days before the internet, when major artists weren't as physically recognizable to a large majority of fans. There is a story in Mark Moore's book The Jan & Dean Record about a J&D show back in the 1960s where Dean for some reason, didn't show up. I don't recall the specific details, but Jan played the show, and I think had someone stand on stage and pretend to be Dean, and no one knew or cared. As I said, you could get away with that back then, but even by the 70s, people wanted the actual artists on stage. Jan himself got into trouble touring with a fake Dean, and there is also the famous example where a fake Deep Purple played a few shows in 1980 with Rod Evans, the original lead singer who hadn't been in the back since the late 1960s, and four other hired musicians, and there were lawsuits and fan backlash. Despite how little he might contribute to a show these days, its not a Brian Wilson show without Brian present. I also don't think we will ever have a Brian Wilson Orchestra type scenario. At some point in the next few years, neither Brian nor Mike will be touring, and there will probably just be a "Beach Boys" touring. I can't really see a scenario where there is a Brian Wilson Orchestra AND The Beach Boys touring separately.
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« Reply #164 on: June 11, 2019, 11:18:18 AM »

I would go see a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" show, as long as they made clear that Brian wouldn't be there, and it would essentially be a "Tribute" type of show. But I'd want it to be the "original" band from 1999 to the early 2000's...which would include Scott Bennett, among the others. I know, I know....that's a very controversial thing to say or even think about.
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« Reply #165 on: June 11, 2019, 11:49:57 AM »

I would go see a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" show, as long as they made clear that Brian wouldn't be there, and it would essentially be a "Tribute" type of show. But I'd want it to be the "original" band from 1999 to the early 2000's...which would include Scott Bennett, among the others. I know, I know....that's a very controversial thing to say or even think about.

I don't think Bennett's on-stage contribution was or is integral enough to *need* him to be on stage. The band had enough changes just in the first couple of years that I don't feel a need for a replication of that original lineup. I don't need Joe Thomas and Steve Dahl, and I think D'Amico is as good on drums as Hines or Sucherman were. I might actually prefer D'Amico. I think Lizik is a fine bassist but has never been super to my taste, so if, say, Al fronted an amalgamation of BW backing guys, I wouldn't mind him bringing along Ed Carter or something like that.

I think Al (in conjunction with maybe Blondie and/or Marks) could front a pared-down version of Brian's band that's more affordable, consisting of Al, Matt, Darian, Probyn, D'Amico, some bassist (Carter or Lizik, etc.), and maybe one more ancillary guy to play keys and/or guitar. All of Brian's guys are great, but I think a slimmed-down Al-fronted tour could work without an extra percussionist, guitarist, keyboardist, and woodwind player, especially if he did a bit more Al-centric and Brother-era material and a bit less of the Summer Days/Pet Sounds sort of stuff.
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« Reply #166 on: June 11, 2019, 11:56:22 AM »

Re: The Gene Vincent example, that kind of thing was likely easier to do back in the days before the internet, when major artists weren't as physically recognizable to a large majority of fans. There is a story in Mark Moore's book The Jan & Dean Record about a J&D show back in the 1960s where Dean for some reason, didn't show up. I don't recall the specific details, but Jan played the show, and I think had someone stand on stage and pretend to be Dean, and no one knew or cared. As I said, you could get away with that back then, but even by the 70s, people wanted the actual artists on stage. Jan himself got into trouble touring with a fake Dean, and there is also the famous example where a fake Deep Purple played a few shows in 1980 with Rod Evans, the original lead singer who hadn't been in the back since the late 1960s, and four other hired musicians, and there were lawsuits and fan backlash. Despite how little he might contribute to a show these days, its not a Brian Wilson show without Brian present. I also don't think we will ever have a Brian Wilson Orchestra type scenario. At some point in the next few years, neither Brian nor Mike will be touring, and there will probably just be a "Beach Boys" touring. I can't really see a scenario where there is a Brian Wilson Orchestra AND The Beach Boys touring separately.

Considering how there are *numerous* off-shoot bands with ex BB/Brian/Al backing guys touring right now, I think we would absolutely see some of Brian and Mike's backing guys keep working in that field.

Whether they'd actually do a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" sort of show, I dunno. It would require permission to be billed that way.

I could easily see them forgoing having to pay out a license, and just do a "California Surf, Inc."/"Papa Doo Run Run"/"Surf City All Stars", etc. sort of thing. Those off-shoot bands right now already have Ed Carter, Bobby Figueroa, Sterling Smith, Randell Kirsch, recently Christian Love, Billy Hinsche, and Matt Jardine and Probyn Gregory when they're not out with Brian, plus Adrian Baker, and I think Bardowell and Farmer still gig in those similar circles. Foskett moonlighted with Brian and Papa Doo Run Run for a while there in the 2000s I believe.

If a licensed "Beach Boys" continued with no original members, I could easily see either a BW-licensed "orchestra" band touring, and/or a continuation of the Papa Doo Run Run-esque bands.

I'm amazed these "Papa" type bands get so many bookings when there is a licensed "Beach Boys" touring right now 150 shows per year. But much like the later era of Jan & Dean, these bands are basically for cases where you've got a fundraiser or a corporate party and can't afford the 50 or 100K or whatever it might be for Mike's band.
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« Reply #167 on: June 11, 2019, 02:31:29 PM »

No Brian, no interest from me as far as a "Brian Wilson" show goes.
I'd go see Al at a solo gig though
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« Reply #168 on: June 11, 2019, 02:45:41 PM »

All good points, and hopefully irrelevant if Brian recovers by the end of August.

Having said that, in hindsight perhaps in the last 5 years the tours should have been promoted as ‘Brian Wilson’s Band’?

It actually is their Facebook title.  https://m.facebook.com/Brian.Wilson.Band/

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« Reply #169 on: June 11, 2019, 06:05:36 PM »

I would go see a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" show, as long as they made clear that Brian wouldn't be there, and it would essentially be a "Tribute" type of show. But I'd want it to be the "original" band from 1999 to the early 2000's...which would include Scott Bennett, among the others. I know, I know....that's a very controversial thing to say or even think about.

I don't think Bennett's on-stage contribution was or is integral enough to *need* him to be on stage. The band had enough changes just in the first couple of years that I don't feel a need for a replication of that original lineup. I don't need Joe Thomas and Steve Dahl, and I think D'Amico is as good on drums as Hines or Sucherman were. I might actually prefer D'Amico. I think Lizik is a fine bassist but has never been super to my taste, so if, say, Al fronted an amalgamation of BW backing guys, I wouldn't mind him bringing along Ed Carter or something like that.

I think Al (in conjunction with maybe Blondie and/or Marks) could front a pared-down version of Brian's band that's more affordable, consisting of Al, Matt, Darian, Probyn, D'Amico, some bassist (Carter or Lizik, etc.), and maybe one more ancillary guy to play keys and/or guitar. All of Brian's guys are great, but I think a slimmed-down Al-fronted tour could work without an extra percussionist, guitarist, keyboardist, and woodwind player, especially if he did a bit more Al-centric and Brother-era material and a bit less of the Summer Days/Pet Sounds sort of stuff.
My comments on Scott are based on some YouTube videos, now no longer available unfortunately. Watching the interplay between Scott and Taylor during Marcella was part of the fun in watching it. He's also a damn good guitar player.
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« Reply #170 on: June 11, 2019, 07:21:33 PM »

I would go see a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" show, as long as they made clear that Brian wouldn't be there, and it would essentially be a "Tribute" type of show. But I'd want it to be the "original" band from 1999 to the early 2000's...which would include Scott Bennett, among the others. I know, I know....that's a very controversial thing to say or even think about.

I don't think Bennett's on-stage contribution was or is integral enough to *need* him to be on stage. The band had enough changes just in the first couple of years that I don't feel a need for a replication of that original lineup. I don't need Joe Thomas and Steve Dahl, and I think D'Amico is as good on drums as Hines or Sucherman were. I might actually prefer D'Amico. I think Lizik is a fine bassist but has never been super to my taste, so if, say, Al fronted an amalgamation of BW backing guys, I wouldn't mind him bringing along Ed Carter or something like that.

I think Al (in conjunction with maybe Blondie and/or Marks) could front a pared-down version of Brian's band that's more affordable, consisting of Al, Matt, Darian, Probyn, D'Amico, some bassist (Carter or Lizik, etc.), and maybe one more ancillary guy to play keys and/or guitar. All of Brian's guys are great, but I think a slimmed-down Al-fronted tour could work without an extra percussionist, guitarist, keyboardist, and woodwind player, especially if he did a bit more Al-centric and Brother-era material and a bit less of the Summer Days/Pet Sounds sort of stuff.
My comments on Scott are based on some YouTube videos, now no longer available unfortunately. Watching the interplay between Scott and Taylor during Marcella was part of the fun in watching it. He's also a damn good guitar player.

He's also a convicted rapist, so why are we even going down this road?
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RubberSoul13
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« Reply #171 on: June 11, 2019, 07:30:04 PM »

I would go see a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" show, as long as they made clear that Brian wouldn't be there, and it would essentially be a "Tribute" type of show. But I'd want it to be the "original" band from 1999 to the early 2000's...which would include Scott Bennett, among the others. I know, I know....that's a very controversial thing to say or even think about.

I don't think Bennett's on-stage contribution was or is integral enough to *need* him to be on stage. The band had enough changes just in the first couple of years that I don't feel a need for a replication of that original lineup. I don't need Joe Thomas and Steve Dahl, and I think D'Amico is as good on drums as Hines or Sucherman were. I might actually prefer D'Amico. I think Lizik is a fine bassist but has never been super to my taste, so if, say, Al fronted an amalgamation of BW backing guys, I wouldn't mind him bringing along Ed Carter or something like that.

I think Al (in conjunction with maybe Blondie and/or Marks) could front a pared-down version of Brian's band that's more affordable, consisting of Al, Matt, Darian, Probyn, D'Amico, some bassist (Carter or Lizik, etc.), and maybe one more ancillary guy to play keys and/or guitar. All of Brian's guys are great, but I think a slimmed-down Al-fronted tour could work without an extra percussionist, guitarist, keyboardist, and woodwind player, especially if he did a bit more Al-centric and Brother-era material and a bit less of the Summer Days/Pet Sounds sort of stuff.
My comments on Scott are based on some YouTube videos, now no longer available unfortunately. Watching the interplay between Scott and Taylor during Marcella was part of the fun in watching it. He's also a damn good guitar player.

He's also a convicted rapist, so why are we even going down this road?

This is by no means a defense for Scott's actions. Consider the notion that video surveillance were as prevelant in the 60's-80's as it is now. Where would Mike Love and Dennis Wilson be now?

I'll just leave that there.
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Jim V.
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« Reply #172 on: June 11, 2019, 09:14:44 PM »

I would go see a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" show, as long as they made clear that Brian wouldn't be there, and it would essentially be a "Tribute" type of show. But I'd want it to be the "original" band from 1999 to the early 2000's...which would include Scott Bennett, among the others. I know, I know....that's a very controversial thing to say or even think about.

I don't think Bennett's on-stage contribution was or is integral enough to *need* him to be on stage. The band had enough changes just in the first couple of years that I don't feel a need for a replication of that original lineup. I don't need Joe Thomas and Steve Dahl, and I think D'Amico is as good on drums as Hines or Sucherman were. I might actually prefer D'Amico. I think Lizik is a fine bassist but has never been super to my taste, so if, say, Al fronted an amalgamation of BW backing guys, I wouldn't mind him bringing along Ed Carter or something like that.

I think Al (in conjunction with maybe Blondie and/or Marks) could front a pared-down version of Brian's band that's more affordable, consisting of Al, Matt, Darian, Probyn, D'Amico, some bassist (Carter or Lizik, etc.), and maybe one more ancillary guy to play keys and/or guitar. All of Brian's guys are great, but I think a slimmed-down Al-fronted tour could work without an extra percussionist, guitarist, keyboardist, and woodwind player, especially if he did a bit more Al-centric and Brother-era material and a bit less of the Summer Days/Pet Sounds sort of stuff.
My comments on Scott are based on some YouTube videos, now no longer available unfortunately. Watching the interplay between Scott and Taylor during Marcella was part of the fun in watching it. He's also a damn good guitar player.

He's also a convicted rapist, so why are we even going down this road?

This is by no means a defense for Scott's actions. Consider the notion that video surveillance were as prevelant in the 60's-80's as it is now. Where would Mike Love and Dennis Wilson be now?

I'll just leave that there.


There's been some....iffy....stuff said about the guys from time to time, but I think this is too much RubberSoul. I personally think you are usually a great poster, but this is beyond the pale. I think at the very least we can give Mike and Denny the benefit of the doubt that they aren't rapists.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 06:47:32 AM by Jim V. » Logged
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« Reply #173 on: June 12, 2019, 06:37:10 AM »

I would go see a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" show, as long as they made clear that Brian wouldn't be there, and it would essentially be a "Tribute" type of show. But I'd want it to be the "original" band from 1999 to the early 2000's...which would include Scott Bennett, among the others. I know, I know....that's a very controversial thing to say or even think about.

I don't think Bennett's on-stage contribution was or is integral enough to *need* him to be on stage. The band had enough changes just in the first couple of years that I don't feel a need for a replication of that original lineup. I don't need Joe Thomas and Steve Dahl, and I think D'Amico is as good on drums as Hines or Sucherman were. I might actually prefer D'Amico. I think Lizik is a fine bassist but has never been super to my taste, so if, say, Al fronted an amalgamation of BW backing guys, I wouldn't mind him bringing along Ed Carter or something like that.

I think Al (in conjunction with maybe Blondie and/or Marks) could front a pared-down version of Brian's band that's more affordable, consisting of Al, Matt, Darian, Probyn, D'Amico, some bassist (Carter or Lizik, etc.), and maybe one more ancillary guy to play keys and/or guitar. All of Brian's guys are great, but I think a slimmed-down Al-fronted tour could work without an extra percussionist, guitarist, keyboardist, and woodwind player, especially if he did a bit more Al-centric and Brother-era material and a bit less of the Summer Days/Pet Sounds sort of stuff.
My comments on Scott are based on some YouTube videos, now no longer available unfortunately. Watching the interplay between Scott and Taylor during Marcella was part of the fun in watching it. He's also a damn good guitar player.

I don't think anybody who has circulated through Brian's band has been anything but a good musician and singer (in cases where they sing).

I just think, looking at this even rather dispassionately, we fans have the luxury of not having to pine for Bennett to be in the band because he was never *that* integral to the live band. I saw him many, many times with Brian. I had a few minor complaints (lodged way before all the controversy), mostly involving his penchant for egging people on to stand for the entire show, thus blocking people who didn't want to stand. I also always found his leads (e.g. "Sail on Sailor") to be extremely bland.

Similarly, Taylor Mills was a fine vocalist, but the band has done fine without her.

But I think Brian built up such a great band that they were and are able to move constituent parts in and out. Darian and Matt (and to some degree Al) may be among the most integral parts of Brian's band, and they've even pulled off excellent shows without Darian or Matt.

If like half of the band had all dropped out at once, that may have been a problem. But they've had surprisingly little turnover for a 20-year-old backing band from year to year.

So with Bennett, I think, from a slightly selfish fan perspective, we have the luxury of not having to feel like we would have a better live show if we could only ignore or get past the obviously complicated issue of whether to bring someone in that situation back.

And frankly, even if he was more integral than I feel he was, there would just be a ton of personal, professional, and logistical problems bringing him back. In most cases where someone is convicted of a felony while either "on the job" or on location for the purposes of performing a job, they would not be rehired into that position.

Read Jeff Foskett's late 90s interview about his 1990 exit from the touring Beach Boys. He *didn't* commit any crime, yet he admits he was behaving in a way that caused problems within the organization, and he was asked to leave and it took nearly 25 years before he got back in with Mike Love again.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 06:45:58 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #174 on: June 12, 2019, 06:41:51 AM »

I would go see a "Brian Wilson Orchestra" show, as long as they made clear that Brian wouldn't be there, and it would essentially be a "Tribute" type of show. But I'd want it to be the "original" band from 1999 to the early 2000's...which would include Scott Bennett, among the others. I know, I know....that's a very controversial thing to say or even think about.

I don't think Bennett's on-stage contribution was or is integral enough to *need* him to be on stage. The band had enough changes just in the first couple of years that I don't feel a need for a replication of that original lineup. I don't need Joe Thomas and Steve Dahl, and I think D'Amico is as good on drums as Hines or Sucherman were. I might actually prefer D'Amico. I think Lizik is a fine bassist but has never been super to my taste, so if, say, Al fronted an amalgamation of BW backing guys, I wouldn't mind him bringing along Ed Carter or something like that.

I think Al (in conjunction with maybe Blondie and/or Marks) could front a pared-down version of Brian's band that's more affordable, consisting of Al, Matt, Darian, Probyn, D'Amico, some bassist (Carter or Lizik, etc.), and maybe one more ancillary guy to play keys and/or guitar. All of Brian's guys are great, but I think a slimmed-down Al-fronted tour could work without an extra percussionist, guitarist, keyboardist, and woodwind player, especially if he did a bit more Al-centric and Brother-era material and a bit less of the Summer Days/Pet Sounds sort of stuff.
My comments on Scott are based on some YouTube videos, now no longer available unfortunately. Watching the interplay between Scott and Taylor during Marcella was part of the fun in watching it. He's also a damn good guitar player.

He's also a convicted rapist, so why are we even going down this road?

This is by no means a defense for Scott's actions. Consider the notion that video surveillance were as prevelant in the 60's-80's as it is now. Where would Mike Love and Dennis Wilson be now?

I'll just leave that there.


There's been some....iffy....stuff said about the guys from time to time, but I think this is too much RubberSoul. I personally think you are usually a great poster, but this is beyond the pale. I think at the very least can give Mike and Denny the benefit of the doubt that they aren't rapists.

Yeah, this angle was attempted by someone back when the Bennett story was breaking, trying to imply similar *theoretical* actions from BB members, and such a supposition is really a non-starter and tends to just blow up the whole conversation.

I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing Bennett's situation, especially as it pertains to his past work with the Brian/BB organizations, and that would also include theoreticals about the future as well. But I think the conversation has to stay rather pragmatic and sort of dispassionate.

If folks want to just argue the legal/moral issues surrounding Bennett's case and such crimes/convictions in general outside of the Brian/BB orb, it's probably best to go to the Bennett thread in the sandbox.
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