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Author Topic: Everyone back together for a Beach Boys Q&A for Sirius XM?  (Read 77224 times)
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« Reply #400 on: August 07, 2018, 12:09:40 AM »

I agree to disagree. There was worse said about Brian. Now if he was directly attacking Mike it’d be different. He’s just saying he doesn’t want mike to work with Brian because of his past actions. Now if he said he hoped something would happen to Mike I’d have a major problem with that
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« Reply #401 on: August 07, 2018, 12:16:17 AM »

I agree to disagree. There was worse said about Brian. Now if he was directly attacking Mike it’d be different. He’s just saying he doesn’t want mike to work with Brian because of his past actions. Now if he said he hoped something would happen to Mike I’d have a major problem with that
Good point about Brian.
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« Reply #402 on: August 07, 2018, 01:40:28 AM »

Guys, we all need to take a step back. This is just a f@cking band. It's not worth becoming the purpose of your life. They made fantastic music, you might like or agree with certain memebrs or you don't. That's about it. If this becomes more than a hobby for you (as long as you are not professionally working for/with them), you should start worrying. No need to get into hateful debates; it's really not worth it. You could do much more worthwhile things with the energy you put into that.
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« Reply #403 on: August 07, 2018, 01:58:53 AM »

^ Agreed. We sometimes take things too personally. I myself have been guilty of it
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« Reply #404 on: August 07, 2018, 06:23:25 AM »

Good gravy already, the whole Mike ended C50 thing is bogus. BRIAN 'S WIFE ended it with the "no more Wilson dates" email: that is a fact.

That's BULLS**T, with all due respect. Six years later and a few people are still peddling this story. It's ridiculous.

Anybody that has paid attention to the entire C50 debacle knows that e-mail has zero to do with why MIKE ended C50. Wanna know how I know? Because Mike's OWN BOOK provides a LITANY of things he didn't like about the tour, MANY reasons why *he* didn't want to continue. Suggesting the "no more shows for Wilson" alleged e-mail was *THE* reason C50 didn't continue would imply then that Mike has EVER said "I wanted to continue, but the e-mail was the reason I didn't", or something alone those lines.

That has never happened. Mike has never expressed a desire to have continued the reunion, or to continue it in the future, and has in fact provided across MULTIPLE interviews as well as his book, a laundry list of gripes about the reunion. Too many musicians, too many singers, autotune being "snuck" onto the soundstage, the tour not making enough money (conveniently it is never addressed as far as any up-front cash advance Mike and/or Brian may have received), the tour not playing "vital smaller markets", "sobering" tales in his book of Brian being "inert" at interviews, and characterized the tour as "one of the most stressful things that I or anyone in my band had ever been through."

Does that sound like someone who's ready to keep going but for a little e-mail from Melinda Wilson?

By Mike's own words and deeds, and to his *slight* credit, he has never backed away from acknowledging that it was HIS decision to not to continue. Indeed, in his book at the end of the (stunningly brief) section on C50, he *acknowledges* that Brian loudly proclaimed that he (Brian) wanted to continue the tour. Mike's attitude is essentially "oh well."

So just a heads up, the "Brian's wife ended the reunion" stuff isn't going to fly here. We all know our stuff when it comes to C50. It's well-trodden territory for six years now on this board.
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« Reply #405 on: August 07, 2018, 06:29:20 AM »

Good gravy already, the whole Mike ended C50 thing is bogus. BRIAN 'S WIFE ended it with the "no more Wilson dates" email: that is a fact.

I see that coming up a lot. Has anybody actually seen the email or is it bard completely on hearsay?


The actual e-mail has never been published; Mike mentions it in his book. I think the headline on that one is that it's perfectly plausible in my mind that the e-mail does exist and was sent. But it's a literal red herring. It had zero to do with the demise of C50. Going back to my previous message in this thread, Mike has not been shy about expressing a litany of reasons he had issues with the C50 tour, and he has always freely admitted that by the end of the tour, Brian DID want to continue and Mike *chose* to go back to his own thing.

By the time that e-mail was allegedly sent, I believe the reunion was already dead as an ongoing, "in perpetuity" thing. The alleged e-mail was the equivalent of shooting someone after they've already died of a heart attack or something. And, again, assuming the e-mail is legit and in proper context, *all parties* including Mike agree that Brian changed his mind and wanted to continue by the end of the tour.

Al Jardine also wanted to continue, but of course he is comically ignored and is not even mentioned in the C50 section of Mike's book beyond a mention that Al was on the tour. I don't believe Mike pointed out in his book that not only did Brian want to continue, but so did Al.

No mention of Al nearly *begging* Mike during the Grammy Museum event in September 2012 to reconsider and continue with the full band.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 06:43:49 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #406 on: August 07, 2018, 07:09:05 AM »

Good gravy already, the whole Mike ended C50 thing is bogus. BRIAN 'S WIFE ended it with the "no more Wilson dates" email: that is a fact.

I see that coming up a lot. Has anybody actually seen the email or is it bard completely on hearsay?


The actual e-mail has never been published; Mike mentions it in his book. I think the headline on that one is that it's perfectly plausible in my mind that the e-mail does exist and was sent. But it's a literal red herring. It had zero to do with the demise of C50. Going back to my previous message in this thread, Mike has not been shy about expressing a litany of reasons he had issues with the C50 tour, and he has always freely admitted that by the end of the tour, Brian DID want to continue and Mike *chose* to go back to his own thing.

By the time that e-mail was allegedly sent, I believe the reunion was already dead as an ongoing, "in perpetuity" thing. The alleged e-mail was the equivalent of shooting someone after they've already died of a heart attack or something. And, again, assuming the e-mail is legit and in proper context, *all parties* including Mike agree that Brian changed his mind and wanted to continue by the end of the tour.

See, even the "no more dates for the Wilsons" thing I think is kinda nonsense. I always kinda took it to mean, "no more dates on this leg of the tour," since, ya know, everything Brian had said during the tour signaled wanting to do more with The Beach Boys. So, just my take.
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« Reply #407 on: August 07, 2018, 07:18:07 AM »

Guys, we all need to take a step back. This is just a f@cking band. It's not worth becoming the purpose of your life. They made fantastic music, you might like or agree with certain memebrs or you don't. That's about it. If this becomes more than a hobby for you (as long as you are not professionally working for/with them), you should start worrying. No need to get into hateful debates; it's really not worth it. You could do much more worthwhile things with the energy you put into that.

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« Reply #408 on: August 07, 2018, 07:21:34 AM »

You cannot say definitively that the 'email' didn't play a part in the end of C50. It also would be naive to say that it was the only reason, or even the main reason for the end of the tour.

The thing that, in my opinion, gives Mike justification for ending the tour, was that, by everyone's admission, it was supposed to be a set number of dates. 50 I think, which was extended. That doesn't mean it's a bummer that it didn't continue. And it doesn't mean that Mike didn't end the thing for what could be described as 'selfish reasons'

I think Bruce was probably keen on getting back to the M&B format as well.

But, we were treated to a great tour in C50. I don't know that it could have gone on forever, but who knows. Here's a question, could Brian and Al have tried to convince Mike to carry on. Could they have given him more money, Found ways to entice him to carry on? Maybe Brian could have taken a moment at every show to thank Mike for his contributions and state there could have never been a Beach Boys without him. Could they have done more, if they really wanted the show to go on?
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« Reply #409 on: August 07, 2018, 07:40:08 AM »

Good gravy already, the whole Mike ended C50 thing is bogus. BRIAN 'S WIFE ended it with the "no more Wilson dates" email: that is a fact.

I see that coming up a lot. Has anybody actually seen the email or is it bard completely on hearsay?


The actual e-mail has never been published; Mike mentions it in his book. I think the headline on that one is that it's perfectly plausible in my mind that the e-mail does exist and was sent. But it's a literal red herring. It had zero to do with the demise of C50. Going back to my previous message in this thread, Mike has not been shy about expressing a litany of reasons he had issues with the C50 tour, and he has always freely admitted that by the end of the tour, Brian DID want to continue and Mike *chose* to go back to his own thing.

By the time that e-mail was allegedly sent, I believe the reunion was already dead as an ongoing, "in perpetuity" thing. The alleged e-mail was the equivalent of shooting someone after they've already died of a heart attack or something. And, again, assuming the e-mail is legit and in proper context, *all parties* including Mike agree that Brian changed his mind and wanted to continue by the end of the tour.

See, even the "no more dates for the Wilsons" thing I think is kinda nonsense. I always kinda took it to mean, "no more dates on this leg of the tour," since, ya know, everything Brian had said during the tour signaled wanting to do more with The Beach Boys. So, just my take.

One of the more curious aspects of the "no more shows" alleged e-mail is that in the *lengthy* letter Mike wrote to the LA Times at the end of the tour, where he went through a laundry list of reasons and justifications, he *never* mentioned the e-mail.

With all due respect to all, I question the deduction and reasoning skills of anyone that *actually* thinks Brian's alleged e-mail has anything to do with (let alone being the *main* reason) the reunion ending. It's *patently obvious* that Mike made the decision based on a list of reasons (many outlined in interviews and his book), and at some point well after the end of the tour and after a lengthy letter to the LA Times, brought up one alleged e-mail as if it had anything to do with his decision.

To be fair, I *think* Mike tries to make the connection in his book by implying he hadn't made a firm decision about ending the reunion, was constantly getting offers for "his version" of the Beach Boys, and then once he got the alleged "e-mail", he reacted by then starting to book his own shows. He even seems to imply, in my opinion, in a more recent interview, that he thinks the e-mail was some sort of weird reverse-psychology attempt. He mentions that he (Mike) believes that they (Melinda and Brian) wanted Mike to react to the e-mail by saying "are you crazy? shouldn't we keep going?" He (again, in my opinion) seems to imply the e-mail was just a ploy to get Mike to grovel and ask Brian to reconsider. What's interesting is that even though I don't particularly buy that the alleged e-mail was such an elaborate ploy, Mike *admits* that he reacted by *not* doing anything to try to save the reunion, and instead booked his own gigs and seemingly never looked back.

But even taking all of that into consideration, he has NEVER ONCE expressed an active desire to continue the reunion. All of this "set end date" and "it was Melinda's e-mail that ended the reunion" stuff would make *some* sense *if* Mike had EVER expressed anything but happiness over going back to his own thing, or if Mike had ever expressed true disappointment over the reunion ending, or expressed ANY sentiment along the lines of "*I* wanted the reunion to continue, but was prevented from doing so, and therefore I'm very disappointed and still wish we could reunite." But no, none of that. It's patently obvious Mike would rather be doing his own thing. Mike owns his own decision more than the small number of "defenders" seem to.

Only a few times did anybody ever seem truly bummed the reunion ended. Brian in his LA Times letter, after which he seemed to move on. And poor Al, who was still trying to talk Mike into reconsidering months after I think the decision had probably already been made.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 07:54:26 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #410 on: August 07, 2018, 07:52:36 AM »

You cannot say definitively that the 'email' didn't play a part in the end of C50. It also would be naive to say that it was the only reason, or even the main reason for the end of the tour.

The thing that, in my opinion, gives Mike justification for ending the tour, was that, by everyone's admission, it was supposed to be a set number of dates. 50 I think, which was extended. That doesn't mean it's a bummer that it didn't continue. And it doesn't mean that Mike didn't end the thing for what could be described as 'selfish reasons'

I think Bruce was probably keen on getting back to the M&B format as well.

But, we were treated to a great tour in C50. I don't know that it could have gone on forever, but who knows. Here's a question, could Brian and Al have tried to convince Mike to carry on. Could they have given him more money, Found ways to entice him to carry on? Maybe Brian could have taken a moment at every show to thank Mike for his contributions and state there could have never been a Beach Boys without him. Could they have done more, if they really wanted the show to go on?

Howie Edelson called it way back *in* 2012; the "set end date" stuff is total BS. They could have made it work had they wanted to. Mike (and Bruce) didn't want to. Bruce was indeed happily telling everyone BEFORE the tour even started that it was a finite amount of shows.

I've always found it hilarious how a few people use the "set end date" argument in the same sentence in which they acknowledge the original "set end date" of 50 shows was extended. NOBODY who is truly familiar with these guys, these camps, this band, can deny that had Mike and Brian (and Jackie and Melinda) made it happen, the reunion could have continued. For 25 more shows, for another year, or in perpetuity.

I've already gone over the alleged e-mail ad nauseam; EVERY PIECE of available evidence points to the e-mail being a non-issue. *Especially* Mike's own words. Anybody truly believing that e-mail (the one Mike didn't even mention in interviews/articles in 2012 post-tour) had any impact on Mike not wanting to continue the reunion is ignoring reams and reams of evidence, most especially Mike's *own words* on the subject.

The only thing, and even this is based only on Mike's own words, that the alleged e-mail impacted was apparently giving Mike justification *at that particular moment* to start booking his own shows. I'm actually not even convinced he hadn't *already* started working on booking his own shows post-C50. It's only my hunch, but I think plans were in place for him to go back to his own thing *before* the reunion even started. Again, look at Bruce's *pre-tour* comments warning everybody that after the final scheduled date, there would be no more shows with all five members.

Even Mike's own story of using the alleged e-mail as a justification to start booking his own shows rings hollow to me, because almost everything he says before and after that point in time strongly suggests he didn't like numerous aspects of the tour. Using the e-mail as an actual reason the tour ended *also* contradicts Mike's own equally ridiculous "set end date" reasoning, which implies the tour ended because, I guess, it stopped with the last date.

And again, Mike himself *fully acknowledges* that at some point well before the end of the tour, Brian DID want to continue, which *also* renders the e-mail moot. Even if Mike had to do his own shows that he had already scheduled (which is a spurious assumption at best, as any "Mike and Bruce" dates could have easily been rebooked/rescheduled/bought off, etc.), he made NO move to saying "okay, let's get the reunion back together for the end of the year", or "for 2013", or anything else.
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« Reply #411 on: August 07, 2018, 09:29:24 AM »

That's some solid logic and reason in HeyJude's comments about C50. It's been hashed out so often, and various talking points like "set end date" and a lone "smoking gun" email have been refuted by facts including Mike's own comments on the matter, that it is odd to see the clock being turned back yet again to the lone email theory to explain Mike's decision.

As mentioned, there have been numerous reasons given by Mike and others around him since his first public comment that centered around not wanting to risk overexposure in the marketplace, supplemented by a mention of The Eagles which led to a public rebuke from their camp. And along with that, a notion that some players in the concert booking business had advised Mike against overexposure...and later suggestions that fans wanted to see Mike's lean-and-mean lineup versus C50...would that be the same players in the concert booking business who were putting bigger offers on the table for the C50 lineup to book more shows?

Then there was the issue which seemed to appear after "set end date" and "No More Wilsons" ran their course, that of the tour not making enough money or spending too much money to be profitable. Hmmm. The numbers were already run on that issue, decide for yourself.

But if the email is still such a smoking gun, be-all-end-all kind of answer, consider this:

What, if any, emails or correspondence came before or after this one email that's still being cited as *the* reason? In other words, what was the context that led to such an email if it were such a major factor? Maybe if someday "50 Big Ones LLC" and/or BRI make public the correspondence and the actual messages sent and received, we'll get an answer a la the sealed JFK files. Until then, trying to hinge the fate of what was one of the most talked-about tours of 2012 on a single email with no context seems more than a little odd.

And again, territory previously mapped out, but if the issue was Mike getting a green light to book his own shows again, what shows did he proceed to book? The most notable were Nutty Jerry's which turned into a debacle that led to the show being canceled anyway over the confusion it caused, the charity gig at a California winery featuring John Stamos that was almost the day after the final UK C50 show and where some audience members thought they'd be seeing the C50 lineup, and some random show outside the US that I'm not sure ever happened.

So when Mike got the greenlight so to speak based on this one email, what did he end up booking at that time?
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« Reply #412 on: August 07, 2018, 09:56:28 AM »

So many valid points. Taking away the money, the biggest reason the reunion couldn’t continue for me is this. Mike would sooner do 173 shows a year as M&B than 73 shows as The Beach Boys. It’s basically his touring DNA.
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« Reply #413 on: August 07, 2018, 10:02:36 AM »

For those who are interested as far as when and how Mike may have been booking "Mike and Bruce" shows for post-C50, it's worth noting that word first leaked around *June 15, 2012* of rumors of Mike booking South American dates for his band. My guess is these would have been the 10/26 and 10/28 shows in Chile and Argentina that were for some reason cancelled.

In any event, less than two months into the C50 tour, and over three months before it was over, word was breaking of rumors of Mike booking his own shows for later in the year (and one might guess that by the time those "rumors leaked", it was something that had occurred days if not weeks prior.) That doesn't smell like someone who has any intention or desire to "see how it goes" at that point and possibly continue the reunion.
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« Reply #414 on: August 07, 2018, 11:07:19 AM »

So many valid points. Taking away the money, the biggest reason the reunion couldn’t continue for me is this. Mike would sooner do 173 shows a year as M&B than 73 shows as The Beach Boys. It’s basically his touring DNA.

And even the money issue used as yet another reason a few years after the fact seemed like a red herring. Everyone in the industry saying the tour was a success must have been wrong. But again, the numbers were crunched and the numbers are there for everyone to see and judge whether or not C50 was a financial failure.

This reply can lead to a whole list of associated topics, but mostly I'll repeat what I've said many times before and opine that a lot has to do with Mike's wanting to be the spotlight and not share that identity as "leader" of the band with anyone. His shows offer that chance, where C50 did not. Maybe his mindset has changed since 2012.

But what also sticks out is how Mike went out with his tour setup after C50 and took along with him some of the popular elements of C50's stage show, including the giant video screen, tributes to Carl and Dennis (although even those changed to allow 'Forever' to be a Full House song rather than a Dennis/BB's song when Stamos was there), and from 2013 onward the use of "50th Anniversary" in the tours' billings and marketing.

Some might say no big deal, "oh, but Brian did that too with Pet Sounds 50th", etc etc etc. But for someone who didn't want to continue the real C50 activities, Mike took with him some of the elements from C50 to use as his own, including the headline "Beach Boys Celebrate 50th..." attached to marketing the tours. Just worth noting.
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« Reply #415 on: August 07, 2018, 11:21:34 AM »

For those who are interested as far as when and how Mike may have been booking "Mike and Bruce" shows for post-C50, it's worth noting that word first leaked around *June 15, 2012* of rumors of Mike booking South American dates for his band. My guess is these would have been the 10/26 and 10/28 shows in Chile and Argentina that were for some reason cancelled.

In any event, less than two months into the C50 tour, and over three months before it was over, word was breaking of rumors of Mike booking his own shows for later in the year (and one might guess that by the time those "rumors leaked", it was something that had occurred days if not weeks prior.) That doesn't smell like someone who has any intention or desire to "see how it goes" at that point and possibly continue the reunion.

Maybe this does or does not refute some of the points being made about Mike and booking these shows...but isn't it ironic or at least worth noting that these shows that were so important for Mike to book in June or whenever it happened ended up not happening anyway? Just take a look at the gigs that actually happened in 2012 going into early 2013 after C50, and how many took place. Were the shows that did take place of any major consequence whatsoever that if necessary they couldn't have been postponed or moved? And that also assumes more shows were on the table to possibly extend the tour...but when that hypothetical extension would happen would be worth noting too.

Issue though is the immediacy of this June 2012 event and how it was portrayed as a green-light for Mike to get to the all-important business of booking gigs for the remainder of 2012...gigs which didn't happen?

Again, old ground that has been covered, but when issues like this magic-bullet email are brought up in such a definitive way, it opens the floodgates for the facts of what actually did play out to be offered in return.
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« Reply #416 on: August 07, 2018, 03:11:44 PM »

Video on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/siriusxm/videos/10156677082955929/UzpfSTgyMTYzOTQxMzk6MTAxNTY1Nzg1MTcyNzkxNDA/
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« Reply #417 on: August 07, 2018, 03:28:34 PM »

A few more clips here.

http://blog.siriusxm.com/beach-boys-reunite-for-the-first-time-since-2012-for-siriusxm-town-hall/
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« Reply #418 on: August 07, 2018, 06:58:43 PM »

Nice clips so far! The Sirius link has more to watch from YouTube.

I would love it if Sirius made a video of the full event available on their YouTube channel after the initial broadcast runs.

I would love it even more if they could somehow corral the guys together for more of these.

But so far, the one letdown is that there really hasn't been anything revelatory in the answers or info given. It's pretty much what most fans invested beyond the greatest hits comps would have heard. Here's hoping the full hour will go a little deeper in the guys' answers. I like that Reiner is asking the questions as a fan.
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« Reply #419 on: August 07, 2018, 08:00:30 PM »

Good gravy already, the whole Mike ended C50 thing is bogus. BRIAN 'S WIFE ended it with the "no more Wilson dates" email: that is a fact.
Well at least one person has their facts straight.
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« Reply #420 on: August 07, 2018, 08:24:24 PM »

Good gravy already, the whole Mike ended C50 thing is bogus. BRIAN 'S WIFE ended it with the "no more Wilson dates" email: that is a fact.
Well at least one person has their facts straight.

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« Reply #421 on: August 07, 2018, 08:35:51 PM »

Good gravy already, the whole Mike ended C50 thing is bogus. BRIAN 'S WIFE ended it with the "no more Wilson dates" email: that is a fact.
Well at least one person has their facts straight.



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« Reply #422 on: August 07, 2018, 11:35:06 PM »

A moderator trolling a fellow board member? Hmm.
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« Reply #423 on: August 08, 2018, 01:01:59 AM »

Does it mean troll must get nice thoughtful reply? It makes sense that guitarfool replied in similar style as Lonely Summer/ Matt Etherton's troll posts. When it's been explained & clarified by HeyJude & the like in great details that email isn't the reason C50 ended, Lonely Summer just goes backwards & agrees with Matt Etherton's "fact" (they didn't even back up that "fact") whose post got said explanation & clarification. If you wish to defend trolls, fine.
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« Reply #424 on: August 08, 2018, 01:52:13 AM »

Don't drink the Kool-Aid.
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