gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
662106 Posts in 26541 Topics by 3796 Members - Latest Member: Join The Human Race September 26, 2020, 06:50:17 AM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: ATTENTION ALL VINYL LP COLLECTORS !!  (Read 2195 times)
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1333


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« on: February 08, 2020, 03:46:46 PM »

COMMENT to anyone collecting Vinyl LP's.

I am sad to report that a devastating fire in the factory of the major supplier of lacquer masters used to make LP records will bring the production of LP's to a halt very soon. Lacquer discs have a limited shelf life so are not stock pilled. Stock is limited.

If you have been thinking about buying a vinyl copy of any record, get your credit cards out and do it now !  Even old LP's will be affected and soon become expensive and unavailable. Without masters, pressing plants will have no business and could close also. It will be some time before the situation is corrected. Much of the equipment used to manufacture lacquer discs is old and not made anymore.

Read several stories here >>>
https://www.google.com/search?q=firee+in+vinyl+LP+mamufcturing+plant&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS748US748&oq=firee+in+vinyl+LP+mamufcturing+plant&aqs=chrome..69i57j33.26039j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8.

I just returned from major industry show, Florida Audio Expo, where vinyl rules. Record playback equipment used by audiophiles with systems ranging from $30,000 to $750,000 for 2-channel playback systems was on display. These are very serious LP enthusiasts. The fire was all the talk of the show, so it is not a passive story. It will influence every aspect of the recording industry. A terrible turn of events.

~swd
Logged
luckyoldsmile
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 75



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2020, 05:41:43 PM »

This sounds like a real nightmare. Sad

Thank you for the information, sir. I hadn't heard it put in that kind of context.

Logged

Wish you'd help me find the key ...
Emdeeh
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2599



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2020, 08:20:59 PM »

There's one other plant for masters, located in Japan, and it was already having trouble keeping up with demand.

Here's an article on the fire:
https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/8550477/vinyl-record-industry-apollo-masters-plant-fire
Logged
Lonely Summer
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3460


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2020, 08:58:55 PM »

So I guess this the end of the vinyl revival?
It doesn't worry me; I have nearly everything I ever thought of as a MUST HAVE on vinyl. These days, I mostly buy 45's, random cheap albums at thrift stores; and cd's.
But this story, along with the revelation in the last year or so of the massive fire at ...help me...UMG?...that destroyed thousands of master tapes...yeah, we are finding out just how temporary our musical history is.
Will anyone still be listening to the Beach Boys in 2060? The Beatles? Elvis?
Logged
SBonilla
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 179



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2020, 06:56:57 AM »

So I guess this the end of the vinyl revival?
It doesn't worry me; I have nearly everything I ever thought of as a MUST HAVE on vinyl. These days, I mostly buy 45's, random cheap albums at thrift stores; and cd's.
But this story, along with the revelation in the last year or so of the massive fire at ...help me...UMG?...that destroyed thousands of master tapes...yeah, we are finding out just how temporary our musical history is.
Will anyone still be listening to the Beach Boys in 2060? The Beatles? Elvis?

I feel bad for Numero Group, they just announced that they are getting out of the CD  business and will be releasing only vinyl.
Logged
All Summer Long
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 348



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2020, 08:32:07 AM »

So I guess this the end of the vinyl revival?
It doesn't worry me; I have nearly everything I ever thought of as a MUST HAVE on vinyl. These days, I mostly buy 45's, random cheap albums at thrift stores; and cd's.
But this story, along with the revelation in the last year or so of the massive fire at ...help me...UMG?...that destroyed thousands of master tapes...yeah, we are finding out just how temporary our musical history is.
Will anyone still be listening to the Beach Boys in 2060? The Beatles? Elvis?

Well Iíll be around then, so I will.

But yes, Iím getting pretty worried about this. Mr. Desper, is there any way that they could rebuild or do they not get much profit from their part of vinyl production?
Logged
Lonely Summer
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3460


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2020, 08:34:10 PM »

So I guess this the end of the vinyl revival?
It doesn't worry me; I have nearly everything I ever thought of as a MUST HAVE on vinyl. These days, I mostly buy 45's, random cheap albums at thrift stores; and cd's.
But this story, along with the revelation in the last year or so of the massive fire at ...help me...UMG?...that destroyed thousands of master tapes...yeah, we are finding out just how temporary our musical history is.
Will anyone still be listening to the Beach Boys in 2060? The Beatles? Elvis?

Well Iíll be around then, so I will.

But yes, Iím getting pretty worried about this. Mr. Desper, is there any way that they could rebuild or do they not get much profit from their part of vinyl production?
Oh, i'll be around, too, but my hearing will probably will not.
Logged
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1333


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2020, 08:35:36 AM »

So I guess this the end of the vinyl revival?   Mr. Desper, is there any way that they could rebuild or do they not get much profit from their part of vinyl production?
COMMENT to All Summer Long:

It is not the end of vinyl. Up until now Vinyl has enjoyed an uptick of 29% in sales, exceeding CD sales. So the market is there and that means the incentive to invest in new facilities is also there.

The problem is, the equipment used to make lacquer blanks hasn't been manufactured for 25 years. These are big and heavy machines that can last and last, but not survive an intense fire fueled by the chemicals used in the making of the discs. So to recreate all the machines will take hand tooling. A huge investment and long lead time. I suppose some bank or banks will fund the investment necessary to rebuild, but the talent and know-how to move forward is deceased or retired. It's kind of an art form, like making stained glass. We still don't know how to duplicate the color glass made 600 years ago by those artisans.

So the time-line is long. Can the supporting industries ride it out?  I hope so. Meanwhile, this is not a bump in the road, it's a mountain that has to be crossed -- that will take a long time.

The lacquer plant in Japan is now in demand, but Mastering Engineers have found the American product to be best, so any new LP's may inferior to past issues. Metal Disk cutting technique is still viable, but the heads used for cutting are far and few between and have their own set of problems. None of these alternate solutions can fill the demand, so shortages of LP's will soon develop in the marketplace. Demand will push the price for existing LP up and up as they are bought up by collectors.

Buy now !
~swd
Logged
BeachBoysCovers
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 157


View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2020, 12:32:35 PM »

Is vinyl actually selling more than CDs in the US? Despite all the headlines in the UK about how vinyl is massively outselling CDs, the actual figures in the UK last year was 4.3m vinyl to 23.5m CDs.

I can't find the US figures for 2019, but this article from midway through 2019 talks about vinyl sales "overtaking" CDs, but it means in value rather than numbers - for the first half of the year 8.6 million records to 18.6 million CDs https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2019/09/08/vinyl-overtake-cd-sales/
Logged

The Old Ranger
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2020, 04:20:45 PM »

Horrible news, but having it come from Stephen Desper softens the blow somehow. Boy, do I feel old and sad.  Sad
Logged
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1333


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2020, 06:06:56 PM »

Is vinyl actually selling more than CDs in the US? Despite all the headlines in the UK about how vinyl is massively outselling CDs, the actual figures in the UK last year was 4.3m vinyl to 23.5m CDs.

I can't find the US figures for 2019, but this article from midway through 2019 talks about vinyl sales "overtaking" CDs, but it means in value rather than numbers - for the first half of the year 8.6 million records to 18.6 million CDs https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2019/09/08/vinyl-overtake-cd-sales/

COMMENT to BBCovers:  I may have mis-spoken. What I should have said is that the rate of increase of sales is 29 percent, which is above the rate for CD's. I did not mean the gross sales figures. Thank you for pointing that out. ~swd
Logged
Stephen W. Desper
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1333


Maintain Dynamics - Keep Peaks below 100%


View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2020, 02:05:56 PM »

COMMENT to vinyl collectors:   It begins (or ends).  As I stated, we will see pressing plants start to close.

Rainbow Records Pressing Plant Closes >>> https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2019/10/22/rainbo-records-shutting-down/


~swd
Logged
Senator Blutarsky
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 103



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2020, 03:35:56 PM »

That is not good at all. Ive always loved vinyl, years ago I inherited a bunch of albums from my parents they didn't care about anymore, some Beatles records from the Apple Label, original Led Zeppelin albums, etc. ( unfortunately they weren't into the Beach Boys as that was slightly before their formative years)  Ive always thought about getting into collecting more but this sure puts a damper on it.
Logged
stinkynimrod
Smiley Smile Newbie

Offline Offline

Posts: 9


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2020, 07:21:46 AM »

Memphis Record Pressing employee here, feel free to ask questions or correct me on anything.

Lacquer cutting will definitely be endangered until somebody (cough cough price gouging major labels) hopefully decides to invest in new cutting tech. Direct metal mastering has been around since the 80s but everybody who developed it has passed on and not much paperwork was left behind. From what I have read, there are about 30 DMM machines in the world with most of them overseas and a few owned in the states by the Church of Scientology (not a joke, look it up). Otherwise the North American cutters are all old school lacquer cutting. Some of them have stockpiled and will be fine for a while but their supply being cut short for the foreseeable future will obviously have a big impact.

Vinyl is enjoying a healthy resurgence; I think it has a lot to do with it being basically the antithesis of an mp3 and many people enjoy having a physical relic of sorts to hold/collect/engage with on a much larger scale. Would obviously be a dang shame if it had to go away due to a sudden lack of resources. A big part of the boost in popularity has come from the product major labels are now pushing in big stores like Walmart, Target, Best Buy, Urban Outfitters catching the eyes of those who "didn't know they still made those." Naturally the price of new records has gone up 2-3x more than they cost ~12 years ago. But there hasn't been much reinvestment back into the infrastructure to keep it sustainable. It took until a few years ago for any companies to start producing new pressing machines. There were only 2 lacquer disc plants, and now the one that produced an estimated 90% of the lacquers is gone. Direct metal mastering can sound just as good and doesn't require lacquer discs but at the moment is also in short supply as far as the number of machines that exist in the world.

I personally think everything will turn out fine but it's gonna need a huge investment in the infrastructure by those who have been pushing vinyl as a premium product for a while now.
Logged
Lonely Summer
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3460


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2020, 07:10:14 PM »

Memphis Record Pressing employee here, feel free to ask questions or correct me on anything.

Lacquer cutting will definitely be endangered until somebody (cough cough price gouging major labels) hopefully decides to invest in new cutting tech. Direct metal mastering has been around since the 80s but everybody who developed it has passed on and not much paperwork was left behind. From what I have read, there are about 30 DMM machines in the world with most of them overseas and a few owned in the states by the Church of Scientology (not a joke, look it up). Otherwise the North American cutters are all old school lacquer cutting. Some of them have stockpiled and will be fine for a while but their supply being cut short for the foreseeable future will obviously have a big impact.

Vinyl is enjoying a healthy resurgence; I think it has a lot to do with it being basically the antithesis of an mp3 and many people enjoy having a physical relic of sorts to hold/collect/engage with on a much larger scale. Would obviously be a dang shame if it had to go away due to a sudden lack of resources. A big part of the boost in popularity has come from the product major labels are now pushing in big stores like Walmart, Target, Best Buy, Urban Outfitters catching the eyes of those who "didn't know they still made those." Naturally the price of new records has gone up 2-3x more than they cost ~12 years ago. But there hasn't been much reinvestment back into the infrastructure to keep it sustainable. It took until a few years ago for any companies to start producing new pressing machines. There were only 2 lacquer disc plants, and now the one that produced an estimated 90% of the lacquers is gone. Direct metal mastering can sound just as good and doesn't require lacquer discs but at the moment is also in short supply as far as the number of machines that exist in the world.

I personally think everything will turn out fine but it's gonna need a huge investment in the infrastructure by those who have been pushing vinyl as a premium product for a while now.
I've been complaining about the price for new vinyl for quite some time now, and my fear is, the after effects of the fire will be prices going up even more.
Seems like it wasn't long ago I was getting new vinyl releases for around $15. Some stores charged more, but not a lot more. I didn't mind paying more for the vinyl than the cd because the packaging was so much nicer. But there's a limit to how much I can spend.
Logged
stinkynimrod
Smiley Smile Newbie

Offline Offline

Posts: 9


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2020, 06:38:31 AM »

Memphis Record Pressing employee here, feel free to ask questions or correct me on anything.

Lacquer cutting will definitely be endangered until somebody (cough cough price gouging major labels) hopefully decides to invest in new cutting tech. Direct metal mastering has been around since the 80s but everybody who developed it has passed on and not much paperwork was left behind. From what I have read, there are about 30 DMM machines in the world with most of them overseas and a few owned in the states by the Church of Scientology (not a joke, look it up). Otherwise the North American cutters are all old school lacquer cutting. Some of them have stockpiled and will be fine for a while but their supply being cut short for the foreseeable future will obviously have a big impact.

Vinyl is enjoying a healthy resurgence; I think it has a lot to do with it being basically the antithesis of an mp3 and many people enjoy having a physical relic of sorts to hold/collect/engage with on a much larger scale. Would obviously be a dang shame if it had to go away due to a sudden lack of resources. A big part of the boost in popularity has come from the product major labels are now pushing in big stores like Walmart, Target, Best Buy, Urban Outfitters catching the eyes of those who "didn't know they still made those." Naturally the price of new records has gone up 2-3x more than they cost ~12 years ago. But there hasn't been much reinvestment back into the infrastructure to keep it sustainable. It took until a few years ago for any companies to start producing new pressing machines. There were only 2 lacquer disc plants, and now the one that produced an estimated 90% of the lacquers is gone. Direct metal mastering can sound just as good and doesn't require lacquer discs but at the moment is also in short supply as far as the number of machines that exist in the world.

I personally think everything will turn out fine but it's gonna need a huge investment in the infrastructure by those who have been pushing vinyl as a premium product for a while now.
I've been complaining about the price for new vinyl for quite some time now, and my fear is, the after effects of the fire will be prices going up even more.
Seems like it wasn't long ago I was getting new vinyl releases for around $15. Some stores charged more, but not a lot more. I didn't mind paying more for the vinyl than the cd because the packaging was so much nicer. But there's a limit to how much I can spend.

Same here, I'm a relative youngster, started buying around 2005 when i was 12? New records were scarcely found in south Mississippi but they were $10-15 for a single LP and maybe $15-25 for a double. Now it's more like $20-30 single/$25-50 double. I buy maybe 2-3 new records a year at this point. Would rather just save a little extra for older pressings in the case of reissues and avoid new albums until they start finding their way to used bins.

As for the prices of new records going up even more after this fire, I think it could go either way depending on a few things. Supposedly the percentage of sales increase per year is starting to plateau and level out. For new buyers who are into new pressings, Crosleys, and other beginner record players (which is a huge base sustaining the market), starting a 'record collection' is becoming less of a possibility since it costs around $100 to add just a few new albums to the collection. I think we'll see a big drop off of those customers as they get out of the hobby in the next few years. That's a big chunk of the major labels' market bowing out all over again like the cd/vinyl swapover in the 80s/early 90s. Demand going down would drive prices down. Again, all theoretical, mostly based on my opinion. Alternately, if the big money makers/spenders don't put some serious $$$ back into the infrastructure and attempt to provide a solution to the current short in lacquer supply, it could also mean it costs waaay more to make and buy a record. Board meetings are definitely going to be held about whether vinyl is worth keeping around or not. Small labels will continue to press as they always have but Sony/Warner/Universal will possibly thin their herd.
Logged
stinkynimrod
Smiley Smile Newbie

Offline Offline

Posts: 9


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2020, 07:16:59 AM »

COMMENT to vinyl collectors:   It begins (or ends).  As I stated, we will see pressing plants start to close.

Rainbow Records Pressing Plant Closes >>> https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2019/10/22/rainbo-records-shutting-down/


~swd

Couple more things:

Rainbo is (allegedly) closing because of a massive rent hike and prohibitively expensive relocating costs. This was a while before the Apollo fire. Whether that's the truth or not, still sad to see a plant of over 80 years go.

Some off-the-record hopeful takes by some industry execs:
https://blog.discogs.com/en/why-the-fire-at-apollo-masters-doesnt-mean-vinylgeddon/?utm_source=discogs&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=News_2020_02_13
Logged
Emdeeh
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2599



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2020, 01:14:12 PM »

Rolling Stone posted an in-depth look at the vinyl mastering issue:
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/vinyl-industry-apollo-masters-fire-951903/
Logged
gfx
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.256 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!