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Author Topic: What if...?  (Read 1724 times)
feelintheflows
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« on: May 25, 2018, 05:20:00 PM »

 What if The Beach Boys played Monterey pop?

What if smile was released?

What if Endless Summer was not released?
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the captain
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2018, 06:27:15 PM »

Then there would be message boards on which people got overly excited about questions like what if they hadn’t, what if it hadn’t, and what if it were.
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2018, 11:55:14 PM »

What if The Beach Boys played Monterey pop?

What if smile was released?

What if Endless Summer was not released?

Had they begun augmenting the live band with new musicians yet by Monterey? If not, I think it may have been a disaster because the live show sounded heavy and overburdened by the new material by 1967, imo.

If SMiLE released I think it may have flopped but become a cult hit, much like the Velvet Underground. If it had been a success I think Brian have cracked harder and sooner.

If Endless Summer had not been released I think the band would have broken up by the late 1970’s.

Well that was fun.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 11:56:49 PM by pixletwin » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2018, 01:02:41 AM »

What if The Beach Boys played Monterey pop?

What if smile was released?

What if Endless Summer was not released?

Had they begun augmenting the live band with new musicians yet by Monterey? If not, I think it may have been a disaster because the live show sounded heavy and overburdened by the new material by 1967, imo.

If SMiLE released I think it may have flopped but become a cult hit, much like the Velvet Underground. If it had been a success I think Brian have cracked harder and sooner.

If Endless Summer had not been released I think the band would have broken up by the late 1970’s.

Well that was fun.

In the first question they weren’t good enough at that time. However by September they were but it was too late by then.

I agree in scenario #2 but no matter what an album like Wild Honey was coming.

I think they would’ve broken up sooner than that because creatively they were spent aside from Dennis.
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« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2018, 02:56:25 PM »

Two million dollar questions ... but

Not worth thinking about, too many variables
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« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2018, 03:16:30 PM »

It’s possible they might have just come and gone at Monterey Pop, especially if they played the way they did in Hawaii.  And compared to the acts who made a splash at Monterey like Janis Joplin, Otis Redding, Hendrix, The Who, The Beach Boys might have stuck out like old hats.

It’s hard to imagine how Smile would have been received if it were released in 1967, especially given there was so much going against it in the first place.

I think without Endless Summer, they might have just broken up, or at least moved on to other projects.  Before that revival, The Beach Boys name meant very little at that point.
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JK
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« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2018, 04:11:13 AM »

With all due respect, what if there were no more "What if...?" topics? Grin
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nach0king
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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2018, 05:05:58 PM »

It’s possible they might have just come and gone at Monterey Pop, especially if they played the way they did in Hawaii.  And compared to the acts who made a splash at Monterey like Janis Joplin, Otis Redding, Hendrix, The Who, The Beach Boys might have stuck out like old hats.

Yep. The common wisdom is that they (or mainly Brian) were terrified they were going to be jeered off as squares. In reality I think it would have been even worse: they'd have been ignored. People would have retreated to their tents until the awkward organ warbling stopped.

I know some people like the stripped-down sound from Hawaii but I think it's awful, personally. It's neither one thing nor the other: none of the innocent energy of the early songs and early shows, and none of the rich production of the later masterpieces. The Monterey crowd wouldn't have gone for it.
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Juice Brohnston
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2018, 06:23:28 AM »

Good God, things must have been changing at breakneck speed. I mean the band that released Good Vibrations less than a year before Monterey, would get booed off the stage??

Wonder how a Brian solo appearance would have gone down? A little Good Vibes, Caroline No, then stun the crowd with Surfs Up...
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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2018, 06:39:19 AM »

What if The Beach Boys played Monterey pop?

What if smile was released?

What if Endless Summer was not released?

If they played Monterey Pop........I'm not sure how they'd have gone down given the ferocity of the performances by the likes of The Who and Jimi Hendrix.   I think the move to skip MP is a little overrated, especially the often misapplied Hendrix lyric about surf rock.

If Smile was released.........I think it would've set up them for more sales in the late 60s / early 70s.   Far better than Smiley did

If Endless Summer was not released.......Ideally, we'd have had more albums on par with CATP and Holland.   But, I think eventually, they probably would've become more nostalgia based at some point.    It probably just would've taken longer. 
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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2018, 08:20:20 AM »

With all due respect, what if there were no more "What if...?" topics? Grin

What if there was no JK? HUE HUE HUE
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2018, 08:46:15 AM »

Then there would be message boards on which people got overly excited about questions like what if they hadn’t, what if it hadn’t, and what if it were.

...is the correct answer, all in one.

I doubt whether Immanuel Kant, David Hume, or Ludwig Wittgenstein would have come up with a reply of such shining clarity, pleasant brevity, and eminent wisdom.

Immanuel Kant, yesterday:"No. Certainly not. The Captain hat völlig Recht. Ich hätte es nicht besser formulieren können. Danke schön.







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JK
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« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2018, 08:49:56 AM »

With all due respect, what if there were no more "What if...?" topics? Grin

What if there was no JK? HUE HUE HUE

A world without JK? Unthinkable! LOL
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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2018, 10:36:53 AM »

It's all on topic conversation so have at it. It's hard for long-time board members and fans to not eye-roll a bit not only with the idea of "What if" questions (though they've been far worse, such as the "What if the BBs had been born female?" thread), but specifically with three of the most common, oft-discussed "what ifs" in the history of fandom, especially the "what if Smile had been released?" question. Surely there are a dozen or more old threads that cover this. Same with Monterey Pop.

I personally find at least a bit more interest in "What ifs" that tread (relative) new territory and are plausible. Like, what if Carl hadn't returned to the band in 1982? What if Al had stayed on past 1998? What if the reunion had continued in 2013? What if the band had finished the Paley sessions album? Though, even some of these (especially Paley) has been discussed quite a bit.
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« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2018, 12:57:50 PM »

of the 3 hypo-theticals the monterey pop question seems to have the most viability

(if there're other online dialogues already done that tackle that very point I've not seen it)

Monterey pop was a spur of the moment decision, yes they were scheduled and for some time, then brian abruptly cancelled

If SMiLE had been released by that date then of course the beach boys would've played MP

but the SMiLE  album no show has many more reasons behind it (all of them bad) than the concert no-show IMO, yet the two are inevitably related

in summary:
as we have come to understand from a modern vantagepoint there was no way SMiLE  could've been released originally--Brian overwhelmed himself to the point he totally lost so much simple focus, and group project support went down the tubes with it

if endless summer hadn't been released?  are you kidding me?  Capitol  had already released so many BB compilations and knew nothing more than to keep on doing so ad nauseum.

but Monterey pop?  that on the other hand was a distinct and black/white possibility.  Despite naysayers saying they might not've been polished enough, well, they certainly had a great many successfull perfomances under their belts by then.  Mike Love preferred to being paid and distrusting the event promotors?  IMO they'd have done it if Brian had instead insisted. 


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« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2018, 01:50:11 PM »

I certainly don’t think SMiLE would have flopped if released in 1967. There was both momentum and hype from word of mouth, numerous articles, and a #1 single. I firmly believe the album would have topped the charts.

As for Monterey Pop, I really don’t see how they would have bombed at that as some of us seem to think. Sure, if they kept up their usual on-stage antics and performed nothing but Fun, Fun, Fun-esque songs, it probably wouldn’t have gone that well at all.

But let’s for a minute speculate that SMiLE had been released or was close to being released around the time of the festival and a few songs from it were performed. Let’s also speculate that since the crowd was fairly mellow, Mike and Carl wouldn’t have acted as crazy on stage as they usually did, because usually those antics were being fed by the wild girls screaming.

Based on their regular repertoire at the time, the set could have looked something like this:

California Girls
Help Me, Rhonda
Surfer Girl
Wouldn’t It Be Nice
Heroes and Villains
You’ve Got to Hide Your Love Away
God Only Knows
Surf’s Up
I Get Around
You’re So Good To Me
Sloop John B
Good Vibrations

I think it could have been a memorable gig (in a good way).
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« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2018, 03:16:55 PM »

What if the BB's had played Monterey with a new set list and presentation? Instead of the striped shirts, or the white suits, just walk on stage in the duds they'd been sleeping in. Show starts off with Dennis beating the bloody piss out of his f----ing drum set! Carl takes his beloved Rickenbacker and smashes the s---- out of it, and Mike intones "you'll never hear surf music again!" Then Brian walks out, and encourages the crowd to get into a huge brawl, cause he wants to record the sound of a real rock festival riot.
That would have been awesome.
 LOL
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« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2018, 09:39:10 PM »

It's to bad that Wild Honey hadn't already come out, because I think a set of those songs along with one or two of the "weirder" Smiley Smile songs(H&V, Fall Breaks And Back To Winter,  Wind Chimes, etc) could have made for a great show at Monterey Pop.
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« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2018, 11:13:53 PM »

It's to bad that Wild Honey hadn't already come out, because I think a set of those songs along with one or two of the "weirder" Smiley Smile songs(H&V, Fall Breaks And Back To Winter,  Wind Chimes, etc) could have made for a great show at Monterey Pop.

I wonder how a stripped down arrangement would’ve went over then, like the Lei’d at Hawaii sound . Sounds like a disaster but that organ sound might actually have worked in that setting
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« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2018, 06:20:59 AM »

I *love* the "Wild Honey" live album tracks from the 1967 tour as heard on "Sunshine Tomorrow" (and "Live Sunshine"), and I realize those tracks were brand new when attempted. But their live 1967 takes on "Darlin'" or "Wild Honey" or "How She Boogalooed It" sound a bit tentative and stiff. I'm not sure how well those tracks would have gone over or how well they have come across at a theoretical Monterey Pop show.
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« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2018, 06:55:59 AM »

Smile going unreleased cost them short-term, but it's mystique as a lost masterpiece helped the group re-invent itself in 1971 as a counter-culture FM radio band. Would a Smile released in the midst of Sgt Pepper, Are You Experienced, Fresh Cream, the Doors, Surrealistic Pillow, etc. have had the same impact?

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« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2018, 07:20:26 AM »

Smile going unreleased cost them short-term, but it's mystique as a lost masterpiece helped the group re-invent itself in 1971 as a counter-culture FM radio band. Would a Smile released in the midst of Sgt Pepper, Are You Experienced, Fresh Cream, the Doors, Surrealistic Pillow, etc. have had the same impact?



Personally, I doubt that Smile as an album would hold up to those other 1967 releases.

However, I think had a finished Surf's Up been released in 1967 instead of 1971, it would be a lot more revered outside of BB fandom.
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« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2018, 12:12:57 PM »

I think this setlist would have blown up Monterey, especially if the Boys practiced their butts off, brought in some of the Wrecking Crew to assist, and ditched the striped shirts...or put them on only for the last two numbers.

The Little Girl I Once Knew
I Get Around
Sloop John B
Wouldn't It Be Nice
God Only Knows
Our Prayer/Heroes and Villains
Cabinessence
Surf's Up
Vegetables
Mrs. O'Leary's Cow
Cool Cool Water
Good Vibrations
Medley: Fun, Fun, Fun / Shut Down / Little Deuce Coupe / Surfin' USA
Encore: Barbara Ann
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« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2018, 12:37:32 PM »

What if The Beach Boys played Monterey pop?

What if smile was released?

What if Endless Summer was not released?

These questions are out of order.  SMiLE needed to have been completed AND released in a timely fashion.  SMiLE desperately needed to be 'out there' and enjoying the benefits of being aurally  'consumed' by a growing fan base...collectively picking up on the artistic milestones being achieved, reached and passed.  Credibility from Pet Sounds [and its hits], Good Vibrations, SMiLE and a subsequently more blasting Heroes and Villains and/or Surf's Up...followed by Cabin Essence, and Wonderful would have had the crowds bursting with anticipation.

The thing missing at THAT time would have been Jack...'cause reality would have precluded an appearance at Monterey which would have knocked the throngs on their collective arses.  The 'boys' would have had a hell of a time delivering any of this material live.  The participating players were, after all, who they were and, by and large, still are.  Jack Reilly ultimately gave the Beach Boys 'thing' guidance and purpose with an eye toward next rather than merely affixed to the rear-view mirror [which never makes for a successful business operation...at least long term.]

Internal combustion, the lack of managerial know-how and illness within the structure of the entity spelled out the necessity of there needing to be an ennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnndlesssssssssssssssssss summer.  Greed and envy 'out-sicked' mental illness and in spite of there eventually being a partial reconnect...at least for about 5 years...with artistic development, the staggering inconsistency left the group gasping for the nourishing air of cross the board acceptance.  As good as they were at sucking and blowing...they just couldn't figure out how to do it as a CREATIVE business entity.  The fault belongs [mainly] to just 1 man.

It is what it is 'cause that was the way that it was.  f***ed up...and imploding.  It's what happens when sh*t floats instead of cream and when stupid rises to the position of the steering wheel holder.  Eventually you run ashore...rocks be damned.  Doi-oip-dee-doip.  Doi-oip-dee-doip.  One guy built a great ship.  The lesser light ran it up on the shoals...where it sits, propped up, to this very day... ... ...Visible...but stranded.

What if?  What if there'd been one less DICK in the band?  It would have been even better than it's ultimately played out to be.
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« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2018, 03:21:48 PM »

The obvious consequence in my view is that it would've caused Donald Trump to run for president in the 1992 Presidential election and win it.
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