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Author Topic: Royal Philharmonic Orchestra Album Discussion Thread  (Read 22122 times)
branaa09
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« Reply #225 on: June 19, 2018, 01:31:46 PM »

So Capitol just added this to the Boys Youtube. Notice anything different than the released one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DkXR-CbPE0  Yes it has the Vocals and parts of the Track in Stereo. Why wasn't this one the one released on CD?
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« Reply #226 on: June 19, 2018, 03:49:01 PM »

Now that I've had a while to process this album, I must say I really like it.

Was this album necessary? No, but if it doesn't replace any other planned or potential releases, I'll take it.

Is the tracklist stellar? No. I don't understand the inclusion of tracks like "Fun Fun Fun" and would loved to have seen other tracks better suited to symphonic treatment ("Surf's Up" anybody?), but there are a lot of really cool moments on other tracks. "Sloop" for example. I love the fresh arrangement with those deep (cello?) notes. I also like that they've flown in parts of different lines from different recordings and mixed the vocal stack up a bit. I love how clean everything sounds. Heck, my least favorite Beach Boys song ever, "Disney Girls", is almost kinda listenable here. (Still evokes thoughts of a funeral on a cold, rainy day, but at least it's a pretty funeral.)

Thoughts on how it's doing? I think America has been suffering from what I call "hit fatigue" with the Boys for some time now. On top of that, I think there is a perception that they've just added a violin here and there to original tracks. The release of "Fun Fun Fun" as the first single reinforces that for the casual fan who might have checked that out and rolled her eyes. (WHY WHY WHY was "Fun Fun Fun" included, let alone released first???)
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« Reply #227 on: June 19, 2018, 06:29:33 PM »

It charted on the Billboard 200 this week at #165.

That sounds about right. That falls in line generally with how the Orbison album did. I expected the album would at least creep into the Top 200.

As far as the U.S. is concerned, I think there was an expectation that this set would get Elvis numbers. The first Elvis w/RPO went as high as #21 on Billboard in the U.S. The next two volumes of Elvis had lesser charter placings each time but at least they cracked the Top 100, whereas the Orbison set was a flop. The Aretha Franklin one was even more of a flop here. It might as well not even exist. One would think (hope?) that The Beach Boys were more of a commodity in the states and an RPO set with them would surely outsell the Elvis sets....but evidently that's not the case.   

I can offer no explanation for why these things chart so high in other territories (especially in the U.K.) but I doubt we'll be seeing many more of these from other artists whereas there will probably be at least one more Elvis RPO CD on the way (a Gospel set seems like a natural for this sort of treatment).

   
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« Reply #228 on: June 20, 2018, 06:27:08 AM »

The larger issue of why RPO releases do well in the UK and not the US isn't entirely clear, though I would imagine some factors including advertising budget relative to the country's population and the obvious UK-centric nature of the RPO itself play a role.

But in terms of how recent RPO releases have played out, this BB release is pretty much precisely on the nose as far as where it would be expected to perform. It's performing *very* similarly in both the US and UK to the last similar RPO release from last year featuring Orbison.

There are other similarities as well, including both the BBs and Orbison having already had a gazillion hits repackagings floating around over the years, and their respective RPO releases being mostly hits-centric as opposed to closely cultivating a list of songs that would be best suited to orchestral accompaniment.

Relative to other BB releases, the UK and US have often flip-flopped for whatever reason. "Sunshine Tomorrow" hit #145 in the US and #49 in the UK. Meanwhile, back in 2012, "That's Why God Made the Radio" hit #3 in the US but only #15 in the UK.

Given all the factors, while I'm sure Capitol/UMe would have loved to see the RPO album do even better in the US, I doubt they're surprised by the chart placement.
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« Reply #229 on: June 20, 2018, 01:25:30 PM »

So Capitol just added this to the Boys Youtube. Notice anything different than the released one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DkXR-CbPE0  Yes it has the Vocals and parts of the Track in Stereo. Why wasn't this one the one released on CD?


f*** me is that the actual vocal multitrack we're hearing here? or at least an intact stereo vocal take???
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« Reply #230 on: June 20, 2018, 01:56:51 PM »

I haven't watched that new video yet, but it was established a number of years ago that they have partial multi-track vocals for the song. You can hear some isolated vocal parts in the "Love and Mercy" film.

Off the top of my head, I want to say they have parts of one of Carl's lead vocal overdubs, and then partial backing vocal overdubs. But it's all incomplete compared to the finished master.

Here is what Alan Boyd said in a post here back in 2015 in response to questions about "Love and Mercy" and the song's use in that film:

We do have in the archives partial vocals for "Good Vibrations," from a copy of an original 4 track master.  This 4 track (which now exists only in a vintage 8 track copy) only had some of the vocal parts, none of them doubled, and was apparently copied to a separate, now missing 8 track onto which Brian would have then added all of the rest of the vocal parts and layers heard in the final mix. 
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« Reply #231 on: June 21, 2018, 08:08:52 AM »

I'm a little late to this thread but I've been listening to this album since Sunday (a UK Father's Day present) and have got to say I really like it. The arrangements which work best to my ears are God Only Knows, Sloop John B, Heroes and Villains and Here Today: these have a real energy to them and try to do something different to the original arrangement. I can also appreciate why some like Disney Girls and can honestly say that I dislike none of the tracks. It's a fun listen (even Kokomo).

My only gripe is with the mix of California Girls - there's a stray percussion hit (high hat?) in the "orchestral prelude" at 0.10. It's audible in the original mix of the track (at the same 0.10 mark) but somewhat muffled due to the nature of mono. In the stereo remix on the 2012 Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) reissue the stray percussion is still audible but quieter. The mistake is accidently highlighted in the new mix.

The album is definitely worth more than the 2/5 it received on the All Music Guide site. It's a worthy experiment - I'd give it a solid 4.
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« Reply #232 on: June 21, 2018, 09:02:42 AM »

It charted on the Billboard 200 this week at #165.

That sounds about right. That falls in line generally with how the Orbison album did. I expected the album would at least creep into the Top 200.

As far as the U.S. is concerned, I think there was an expectation that this set would get Elvis numbers. The first Elvis w/RPO went as high as #21 on Billboard in the U.S. The next two volumes of Elvis had lesser charter placings each time but at least they cracked the Top 100, whereas the Orbison set was a flop. The Aretha Franklin one was even more of a flop here. It might as well not even exist. One would think (hope?) that The Beach Boys were more of a commodity in the states and an RPO set with them would surely outsell the Elvis sets....but evidently that's not the case.   

I can offer no explanation for why these things chart so high in other territories (especially in the U.K.) but I doubt we'll be seeing many more of these from other artists whereas there will probably be at least one more Elvis RPO CD on the way (a Gospel set seems like a natural for this sort of treatment).

   

There are some good discussion points in this post. A lot that can be pulled out and hashed out.

First, I'd say what pretty much everyone knows who has been alive since the 70's. The name "Elvis" carries a cache and brand power that may only be rivaled by The Beatles in terms of marketing in the music world. There are few if any names among musicians of the 20th Century that have anywhere near the power that Elvis has. Put his name or his image on anything and people will buy it. It's as simple as that. As ridiculous as some of the merchandising got - and I'm someone who remembers Elvis lamps in the stores in the few years after he died - the Elvis estate in more recent years has been pretty good stewards of the music catalogue. And I'd say as Elvis' fans would get something like the orchestral album to buy, they'd buy it.

Second, I have to ask specific to the US market: If the track record on these other releases from Aretha and Orbison was less than stellar in terms of sales, did they think a Beach Boys release would really take off and do Elvis-like sales? If 2 out of 3 (and those without the name 'Elvis') failed to sell in the US, where was the mindset that assumed a Beach Boys set would be different?

Third, and perhaps controversial: Whoever it was earlier in the thread that mentioned Mike's touring and the notion or watering down the brand...I have to think that played a part.

Apart from any UK-centric loyalty or support of the orchestra or even that it was done at Abbey Road, I think the Beach Boys and their music is still more exotic and more appealing outside the US, perhaps as it has been for decades. It's something about the California mythology and what the music conjures up in the imagination that has a strong appeal outside the US.

But more than that, for all of Mike's boasting about playing 150 or 175 or however many shows he plays each year, it becomes commonplace in the US when every year there is some press in the small-town markets in nearly every region of the US that Mike is playing a show.

And I think Mike's handling of that name and how he has used it to plug his own music and his own projects when he makes those yearly TV lip-synch appearances on parades and July 4th shows and the like has watered down the name. I hear from people who are not invested Beach Boys fans as exist here but who like the music who mention the live shows, and they say things like "they're not all there" or get confused about which original members were there, etc.

Since 2012 we've had over 5 years solid of Mike shaping the brand name the way he wants to do it, and perhaps it has had an effect on the general public and potential buyers of Beach Boys releases in terms of what they think of these various appearances and how willing they'd be to buy something "new" from the Beach Boys they see on TV or in their local press every year. I think it may have an impact.

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« Reply #233 on: June 21, 2018, 09:17:29 AM »

It's as simple as that. As ridiculous as some of the merchandising got - and I'm someone who remembers Elvis lamps in the stores in the few years after he died - the Elvis estate in more recent years has been pretty good stewards of the music catalogue.



The estate (which as I understand means EPE - see below) has nothing to do with the music. The catalog is owned by Sony/BMG. EPE is still destroying his legacy by making him to what must in every reasonal person's eyes look like a laughingstock.
As a not native-speaker I don't know if "estate" only means Elvis Presley Enterprises or if it does include Sony/BMG. So if it does, please ignore my post, I just wanted to make sure that this is clear.
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« Reply #234 on: June 21, 2018, 09:27:32 AM »

It's as simple as that. As ridiculous as some of the merchandising got - and I'm someone who remembers Elvis lamps in the stores in the few years after he died - the Elvis estate in more recent years has been pretty good stewards of the music catalogue.



The estate (which as I understand means EPE - see below) has nothing to do with the music. The catalog is owned by Sony/BMG. EPE is still destroying his legacy by making him to what must in every reasonal person's eyes look like a laughingstock.
As a not native-speaker I don't know if "estate" only means Elvis Presley Enterprises or if it does include Sony/BMG. So if it does, please ignore my post, I just wanted to make sure that this is clear.

It's clear, but my wording was not!  Grin Thanks for the clarification.  The main point in referencing Elvis was when his orchestral albums are compared to the others, including the BB's, and stating that the name Elvis carries enough weight as a brand and an icon that anything with that name is almost guaranteed to sell to at least enough numbers of fans to justify the release. The Beach Boys, especially in the image surrounding that name over the past 5 years which millions of American viewers and concert-goers would have seen, has nowhere near that kind of brand power anymore.
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“Some people think you have to knock somebody down in order to build yourself up, I don’t look at it that way. To the mentality that likes to disparage other people, I say perhaps you should get a life. It’s just wrong thinking in my opinion and I don’t mind saying that.” - Mike Love

"Every single person who criticized Brian for having She & Him, Kacey Musgraves, Sebu and Nate Ruess guesting on his solo album can now officially go heartily f*** themselves." - Wirestone
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« Reply #235 on: June 22, 2018, 09:48:04 AM »

Still at number 4 in the UK this week.
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branaa09
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« Reply #236 on: June 22, 2018, 02:51:31 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF4zyFyrsN4 Capitol posted another making of, yes once again a different mix! Anyone a fan of  Billy Strange's 12 String Guitar?
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« Reply #237 on: June 22, 2018, 06:51:57 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF4zyFyrsN4 Capitol posted another making of, yes once again a different mix! Anyone a fan of  Billy Strange's 12 String Guitar?

PLEASE tell me THAT mix is on the album. If so...I'll buy it.

That is fucking great.

Fresh, exciting, a different perspective on the original while maintaining the integrity of the original. A really creative arrangement, major kudos to the arranger for this.

I'm all in on this one.

Now if that specific mix is NOT on the album, someone needs to answer for it. Like, yesterday.

Because that right there is a triumphant reinterpretation and rearrangement of a brilliant 52 year old recording.

THAT should have been the teaser, not Fun Fun Fun.
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“Some people think you have to knock somebody down in order to build yourself up, I don’t look at it that way. To the mentality that likes to disparage other people, I say perhaps you should get a life. It’s just wrong thinking in my opinion and I don’t mind saying that.” - Mike Love

"Every single person who criticized Brian for having She & Him, Kacey Musgraves, Sebu and Nate Ruess guesting on his solo album can now officially go heartily f*** themselves." - Wirestone
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« Reply #238 on: June 22, 2018, 07:56:31 PM »

I have been pleasantly surprised by some of the tracks on the album.  This one, Here Today, Heroes.  I am definitely more intrigued after reading the ESQ article.

Also, did you know Kokomo is on the album?  Did you know it was their biggest number one hit? Mike never fails to mention that and certainly is all about it in the ESQ piece.  His Kokomoization of the BB never ceases to amaze me.
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« Reply #239 on: June 22, 2018, 09:18:23 PM »

I have been pleasantly surprised by some of the tracks on the album.  This one, Here Today, Heroes.  I am definitely more intrigued after reading the ESQ article.

Also, did you know Kokomo is on the album?  Did you know it was their biggest number one hit? Mike never fails to mention that and certainly is all about it in the ESQ piece.  His Kokomoization of the BB never ceases to amaze me.

Sloop was the first track from this that really grabbed me. So is this YouTube mix the same one as on the album? Heroes didn't do it for me.

As far as Mike and Kokomo and his boasting and the interviews to ESQ and the whole lot...no surprises there at all. It's become status quo. He thinks he is the Beach Boys and wants everyone to think that too.
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“Some people think you have to knock somebody down in order to build yourself up, I don’t look at it that way. To the mentality that likes to disparage other people, I say perhaps you should get a life. It’s just wrong thinking in my opinion and I don’t mind saying that.” - Mike Love

"Every single person who criticized Brian for having She & Him, Kacey Musgraves, Sebu and Nate Ruess guesting on his solo album can now officially go heartily f*** themselves." - Wirestone
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« Reply #240 on: June 23, 2018, 03:44:14 AM »

It's not the same mix. I can't place the exact difference off the top of my head but I think there is more of the original track floating about on the album.
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« Reply #241 on: June 27, 2018, 07:38:19 AM »

Agreed - not the same mix as on the album: the album mix is even better: fuller & got more energy. Just love the instrumental backing to the "threw away all my grits" part - got some extra trombone or something in there. It's a beautiful arrangement.

Also agreed that "Fun, Fun, Fun" is one of the less interesting tracks here, but I guess those responsible for marketing the album to the general public felt compelled to lead with one of the best known and most accessible songs. I'm guessing most people wouldn't know what a sloop was.

"Here Today" is an interesting one. It's really a despairing song about the fragility of love, but the orchestral arrangement gives it a driving beat and the instrumental break just takes off somewhere else entirely. It's a strange juxtaposition of sad lyric and energetic track, but I really enjoy it anyway.
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« Reply #242 on: June 27, 2018, 08:19:48 AM »

Like most others, I think some songs work really well, in particular Sloop, GOK,  California Girls and Disney Girls. Others like FFF and Kokomo, not so well. Kokomo in particular sounds to me to be the weakest song on the CD.....could have done w/o that one, though in the world of Mike Love that would never be allowed to happen.
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« Reply #243 on: June 29, 2018, 10:42:21 AM »

Number 8 in the UK this week.
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« Reply #244 on: July 06, 2018, 10:46:10 AM »

Down to 14 this week.
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« Reply #245 on: July 13, 2018, 12:22:09 PM »

22 this week.
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« Reply #246 on: July 18, 2018, 11:42:20 AM »

COMMENT:

BEACH BOY MIXER >>>
https://www.thebeachboys.com/mixer?utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_medium=email&utm_content=https://UMe.lnk.to/Beach-Boys-MixerEm&utm_campaign=22209195&utm_umg_et=73156454

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« Reply #247 on: July 18, 2018, 12:01:50 PM »

Volume 2?

https://www.clashmusic.com/features/surfs-up-the-continuing-adventures-of-the-beach-boys

The main challenge, it seems, was actually picking which of the Beach Boys countless hits to utilise. “There’s several 100 songs to choose from, but some of them were obvious,” Mike explains. “They’re already talking about doing another volume, so there’s room for more. I mean, ‘Do It Again’ is not on this album but it was number one in Great Britain…”
Bruce adds: “There’s enough to have a second album that isn’t watered down. Don’t worry – it’s going to be good!”
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« Reply #248 on: October 08, 2018, 01:57:29 PM »

Great timing as usual. Official lyric video for ‘Wouldn’t It Be Nice’, for an album released months ago.

https://www.clashmusic.com/news/its-a-brand-new-video-from-the-beach-boys
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« Reply #249 on: October 09, 2018, 02:32:08 PM »

Read a recent interview with Orbison's son; they are apparently churning out a second volume of Orbison RAH re-records. Uggh.

I don't know what's in the Orbison vaults, but I believe there's likely oodles of unreleased stuff that should be released. Unfortunately, his estate is now on the track of doing "hologram" tours, orchestral re-records, and trying for the millionth time to do an Orbison biopic.

I wouldn't be surprised if the BB set sees a second volume as well. It didn't sell super well in the US, but sold well in the UK. I don't think it's needed; unless it's along side more vault releases.
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