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Author Topic: Peter Bagge’s “In Defense Of (And Praise For) Mike Love”  (Read 3975 times)
Lee Marshall
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« Reply #50 on: March 21, 2018, 12:26:31 PM »

In many ways the group did well [to start] because of Mike's role...more as the main singer back then.  He wasn't the main guy writing with Brian.  Roger and Gary contributed to the body of work too.  Love stepped up as the thing picked up momentum and because he was HANDY.  Roger and Gary didn't travel.  Murry hustled gigs.  He did it the old fashioned way...and for a short time it worked and got the band rolling with enough gigs to establish a foundation.  Fred Vail turned it into a money maker.

Love?  As a frontman?  Pitiful.  His patter was corny and his lilting, lisping 'gay' thing was so off-putting in every way.  How would gay guys have felt?  Set upon?  And for what reason?  Then there was Mike the 'go-go' dancer.  What a stupid lookin' buffoon.  His dancing was very distracting and anything but cool.  It was like...Hey!!!  I can't play an instrument unless you want a 2 note sax solo.  So watch this!!!   NO!!!

How many songs did love co-write on the 1st album...5?
On Surfin USA?  3.
Surfer Girl?  4.
LDC? 4...but 3 of them had been used on the first and then 3rd albums so really?  Just 1.
Shut Down 2...with that glorious 2 note sax solo...3...and to be fair...2 of them are classics [for the first time]  Fun Fun Fun and Warmth of the Sun.  THAT is where it BEGAN.  THAT is where Mike became Brian's collaborator...for All Summer Long,  Today and it began to tail off after just 3 albums with Summer Days and Summer Nights.  THAT'S IT!!!

After that...it was more occasional with Mike attempting to insinuate himself where he was no longer really wanted...or needed.  AND THIS is where it all slowly began to fall apart.  The always oh-so-seedy "Nourishment and revenge" has been a problem FAR longer than many here would care to admit.  But that's been a problem now for 52-53 years.  Repeat...an up front/front man PROBLEM.

Front man?  When it comes to being a startlingly HUGE arsehole...he's been way out front for over half a bloody century.  Where he stands as a songwriter [lyricist that is] and as the bottom of the vocal stack and for adding little nuances and the odd catchy idea is one thing...but as a front man?  Carl led the live band.  He directed the whole show.  Now Scott does it.  Mike can't lead the Beached Boys any more than he could lead the Beach Boys.  He's a one trick pony.  Someone get a pail and the shovel.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 12:55:48 PM by Lee Marshall » Logged

"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
KDS
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« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2018, 05:55:11 AM »

This article dates back to 2001 and be warned, the writer goes out of his way to slaughter sacred cows with a most contentious piece. It does not reflect my opinion on the Beach Boys, but I think it contains enough home truths that it should be posted here. Bagge is very tongue-in-cheek and deliberately tries to provoke. But I admire his singular stand in some ways, flying in the face of popular opinion. If nothing else, perhaps it can redress the imbalance of negative bias against Mike Love. Have at it: http://www.mbird.com/2012/05/beach-boys-101-peter-bagges-in-defense-of-and-praise-for-mike-love/

I thought it was a pretty interesting read.   Offers a different POV that's often dismissed.  

Kds, sometimes I have agreed with you. But I can't ever ever agree with a "POV" which calls Brian "a gifted re tard". That's hateful beyond words, and it saddens me that you can defend that piece of trash, though you admitted that "it went too far".
It didn't go too far, shouldn't even have started.

I interpreted it as the writer lampooning some extreme perceptions of Brian.   I honestly don't think it was meant to be hateful. 
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HeyJude
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« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2018, 07:09:58 AM »

I interpreted it as the writer lampooning some extreme perceptions of Brian.   I honestly don't think it was meant to be hateful.  

I think that's making too many excuses for an a-hole article. I don't know that the guy was trying to be hateful, but I also don't buy that he doesn't hold the views/sentiments that he's conveying, including the inflammatory language. Looking at Wiki, the guy is apparently a staunch Libertarian, which explains the dispassionate, blunt nature of his writing and the penchant for being skeptical of the "tortured artist" motif vis-ŕ-vis the "hard working guy who front the band" motif.

If he was using the inflammatory language in his article to somehow subvert an argument or something, then perhaps I'd buy he was "lampooning" extreme perceptions. But the points he makes that includes the over-the-top, inflammatory stuff, actually supports the thesis of his argument.

If it was an article about how people wrongly assume Brian is a "re tard", then I'd take his language as sarcastic/sardonic/lampooning. But his article implies he *agrees* with such an assessment.

Again, articles looking at the over-deification of Brian or fans being too overly-forgiving, and/or articles about Mike Love's role being excessively minimized, are all good ideas for articles. But this article is just sub-par. I could make this guy's argument for him better than he did, and I don't even agree with his thesis/supposition.

Apparently, the guy should stick to comic books.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 07:12:09 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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Jim V.
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« Reply #53 on: March 22, 2018, 10:56:48 AM »

Looking at Wiki, the guy is apparently a staunch Libertarian, which explains the dispassionate, blunt nature of his writing and the penchant for being skeptical of the "tortured artist" motif vis-ŕ-vis the "hard working guy who front the band" motif.

I hate to go there, but am I the only one who finds it odd that usually those who are much more forgiving to Mike and Bruce's f***ed up behavior seem to be on the far right side of the political spectrum?
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« Reply #54 on: March 22, 2018, 11:44:50 AM »

Looking at Wiki, the guy is apparently a staunch Libertarian, which explains the dispassionate, blunt nature of his writing and the penchant for being skeptical of the "tortured artist" motif vis-ŕ-vis the "hard working guy who front the band" motif.

I hate to go there, but am I the only one who finds it odd that usually those who are much more forgiving to Mike and Bruce's f***ed up behavior seem to be on the far right side of the political spectrum?

There's no way to not get into politics to get into this area. Theoretically, I think we could objectively point out the similar politics of Mike and Bruce and a lot of their ardent supporters, regardless of whether one agrees with those politics or not.

To answer the question, it's a resounding yes. Many of the ardent Mike supporters (meaning the extreme folks who rarely if ever admit to *any* fault on his part) seemed to share many of Mike's personality traits and some of Mike and Bruce's political proclivities. It absolutely makes sense. Thankfully, the most extreme fans who seemed to display this tendency are no longer on this board.

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KDS
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« Reply #55 on: March 22, 2018, 12:13:29 PM »

Looking at Wiki, the guy is apparently a staunch Libertarian, which explains the dispassionate, blunt nature of his writing and the penchant for being skeptical of the "tortured artist" motif vis-ŕ-vis the "hard working guy who front the band" motif.

I hate to go there, but am I the only one who finds it odd that usually those who are much more forgiving to Mike and Bruce's f***ed up behavior seem to be on the far right side of the political spectrum?

There's no way to not get into politics to get into this area. Theoretically, I think we could objectively point out the similar politics of Mike and Bruce and a lot of their ardent supporters, regardless of whether one agrees with those politics or not.

To answer the question, it's a resounding yes. Many of the ardent Mike supporters (meaning the extreme folks who rarely if ever admit to *any* fault on his part) seemed to share many of Mike's personality traits and some of Mike and Bruce's political proclivities. It absolutely makes sense. Thankfully, the most extreme fans who seemed to display this tendency are no longer on this board.



I don't think Mike is 100% right is everything he does, but I really don't see the problem with leaning a little to the right. 
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Lee Marshall
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« Reply #56 on: March 22, 2018, 01:17:34 PM »

Never paddled a canoe KDS? LOL  Of course there's a problem leaning to the right.  And that's not the only place.  What side of the bed do you sleep on?  And what if 3 Russian hookers start peeing on you?  Wink
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 01:19:10 PM by Lee Marshall » Logged

"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
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« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2018, 05:24:25 PM »

Never paddled a canoe KDS? LOL  Of course there's a problem leaning to the right.  And that's not the only place.  What side of the bed do you sleep on?  And what if 3 Russian hookers start peeing on you?  Wink

B Cool Guy police
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« Reply #58 on: March 25, 2018, 06:31:00 AM »

Seems noboby's familiar with Petter Bagge's work. For the last 30 years, he's been one of the main artist working on independent comics. His HATE series is a must. And he's the author of a web series dedicated to Murry Wilson, Rock 'n' Roll Dad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVrydhy-YZ4
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Lee Marshall
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« Reply #59 on: March 25, 2018, 07:27:51 AM »

Wow!!!  How cripplingly mean-spirited that is for the survivors...and for their off-spring.  If you know the story...or even if you don't...who's this aimed at?  What's the real target?  And there are more of them?  Easy to see why these 'cartoons' continue to 'live' in the shadows.
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"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
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« Reply #60 on: March 26, 2018, 08:00:15 AM »

Seems noboby's familiar with Petter Bagge's work. For the last 30 years, he's been one of the main artist working on independent comics. His HATE series is a must. And he's the author of a web series dedicated to Murry Wilson, Rock 'n' Roll Dad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVrydhy-YZ4

Nope, I was aware from the outset that he's a comic book artist. His art isn't my thing either, but perhaps he's well respected in that field. But his writing on the BBs is hackneyed and click-bait-ish.

If a well-respected BB author/researcher/expert tried to draw a comic book, maybe that would come out awful too. I dunno.
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