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Author Topic: New bass player with Mike & Bruce  (Read 6401 times)
HeyJude
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« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2018, 07:03:07 AM »

I can't find many clips of those covers...but if you listen to other clips of "Stay" it is identical. Not a single inflection differs at any point in any recording.

The thing I get from those Valli performances is that the tone/ambience of the lead vocal is totally off. It *sounds* pre-recorded. There's not even a slight variance in volume, which happens with any singer as they move a bit closer or farther away from the mic while they sing. Valli not once cracks on a single note. No warble. No notes where he can't hold the note as long as pretty much *all* older singers experience. It doesn't help that in most every video I've seen, Valli is stone-faced if not appearing to be annoyed or bored. He stiffly holds the mic (though that may be on purpose so that nobody notices the volume of his voice *not* changing when he moves the mic away).

I would guess it's *all* pre-recorded, if for no other reason than the likelihood of the pre-recorded stuff sticking out *even more* if he switched over to actually singing live, which would likely sound quite different.

I think Valli still does interviews and whatnot, right? I doubt he's actually fully deaf. He may have extensive hearing loss, I dunno. I know he was having ear problems all the way back in the mid 70s, which was cited (whether correctly or not; I'm not a Four Seasons expert) as one of the reasons he started cutting stuff like "Who Loves You" and "December 1963" where other vocalists were to the fore more so than in the olden days.

What's strange is that it has only been in the last decade or so, after the success of "Jersey Boys", that Valli switched over to a live show format where he has four dudes singing in a line next to him, as vocalists not playing instruments. This is strange because essentially *adding* four extra vocalists would seemingly make it much easier for Valli to hand off parts to these other guys and keep the show live. I'm guessing he either wants to stay mostly the sole focus of the show, and/or his voice has eroded the point he can't sing much of anything. Normally I wouldn't lob such suggestions, even as theories, but when the guy has seemed to lip-sync for perhaps over a decade, it's hard not to assume the worst.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 07:37:19 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2018, 07:35:11 AM »

Back to Mike's new bass player- has he been given any lead vocals yet?

I could be totally wrong, but the vibe I'm getting is that this is not a guy who is going to be given a bunch of lead vocals in the way that Eichenberger was. I could be totally wrong of course.

I don't know if there are clips, but does he do any backing vocals or does he just play bass?

I can't find many clips of those covers...but if you listen to other clips of "Stay" it is identical. Not a single inflection differs at any point in any recording.

The thing I get from those Valli performances is that the tone/ambience of the lead vocal is totally off. It *sounds* pre-recorded. There's not even a slight variance in volume, which happens with any singer as the move a bit closer or farther away from the mic while they sing. Valli not once cracks on a single note. No warble. No notes where he can't hold the note as long as pretty much *all* older singers experience. It doesn't help that in most every video I've seen, Valli is stone-faced if not appearing to be annoyed or bored. He stiffly holds the mic (though that may be on purpose so that nobody notices the volume of his voice *not* changing when he moves the mic away).

I would guess it's *all* pre-recorded, if for no other reason than the likelihood of the pre-recorded stuff sticking out *even more* if he switched over to actually singing live, which would likely sound quite different.

I think Valli still does interviews and whatnot, right? I doubt he's actually fully deaf. He may have extensive hearing loss, I dunno. I know he was having ear problems all the way back in the mid 70s, which was cited (whether correctly or not; I'm not a Four Seasons expert) as one of the reasons he started cutting stuff like "Who Loves You" and "December 1963" where other vocalists were to the fore more so than in the olden days.

What's strange is that it has only been in the last decade or so, after the success of "Jersey Boys", that Valli switched over to a live show format where he has four dudes singing in a line next to him, as vocalists not playing instruments. This is strange because essentially *adding* four extra vocalists would seemingly make it much easier for Valli to hand off parts to these other guys and keep the show live. I'm guessing he either wants to stay mostly the sole focus of the show, and/or his voice has eroded the point he can't sing much of anything. Normally I wouldn't lob such suggestions, even as theories, but when the guy has seemed to lip-sync for perhaps over a decade, it's hard not to assume the worst.

Yeah, I've heard that the ear problems were the reason that Gerry Polci (drums) and Don Ciccione (bass) were added to the group, but Valli ended up having surgery in the late 70's and early 80's that fixed those problems.
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Shark
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« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2018, 07:41:21 AM »

Doubtful that anyone has EVER noticed but I'm NOT exactly Mike Love's biggest fan.  Believe it or not I am NOT a member of the Love Mike fan club.  That said [millions of times]...the old boy just turned 77.  The voice may be the last 'thing' to go...BUT it does go.

I AM a long time Frankie Valli fan.  1 year longer than I've been a Beach Boys fan...starting in 1962.  And I would PAY to go watch Frankie "stand there" if I didn't have to travel a long distance and rent accommodations.  He's a giant.  An all time great and just to show up to say "thanks a LOT" one more time, to me, is worth it.  Frankie is almost 84.  Early May I think he'll turn another page.  And the voice does go.

So?  Think he has a pension plan?  That's a big contingent up there on stage with him...WAY more than Michael is up there warbling with.  How many mouths does he feed?  How many tricks do these guys need to employ so that we can show up and share the music with the guy...or guys...who actually had a hand in creating these all time life memories?  If they have to 'fake it' in order to be there as the authentic 'guys'...I'm OK with it.

If they have to use technical devices like auto-tune or tone or whatever the f*** it is...and as long as people are willing to pay money to be there with them to relive those songs and memories...I'm good with it.  They weren't and they AREN'T Milli Vanilli.

That said...at least Frankie isn't out there month after month sticking yet 'another one' in Bob Gaudio's back or claiming that he wrote all of the songs or complaining forever and a day about Nick Massi's dirty underwear or Tommy Devito's criminal record.  But then Frankie Valli likely has a convoy's worth of class more than my other hero in this particular post.  Still...they both do serve up good memories...in their own unique ways.

Lee, he is definitely a class act.  His opening act, a comedian who goes by Stewie Stone, is the godfather of one of Frankie's kids. Stone has never had a contract with Frankie but has been touring with him for decades all based on a hand shake agreement from the 1960's.  Pretty cool nowadays for people like that to still be doing things their way.
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Lee Marshall
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« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2018, 08:58:27 AM »

Class acts need to be celebrated Shark my man.  Especially class acts who've been around for darned close to 60 years.  If I'mm gonna take swipes at those with a lack of class...surely I can big up a guy like Frankie...even if he can't deliver it at the ripe old age of 83 quite like he could when he was 33.  The fact that he can do more than come to the front door, smile and wave hello is blinkin' impressive.  I mean really!

And to give Mike his due...rather than the doo I usually bestow upon his countenance...to still be out there at 77 is close to being just as impressive.  [if he'd just, someone, shut the f*** up!!!  IF he would do that...take a deep breath and mellow...many of us would do the same.]
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« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2018, 06:24:29 AM »

To be fair, just like the BBs, Frankie Valli has plenty of skeletons in his closet too. This business empire that he and Bob Gaudio have sat atop all these years has left plenty of hurt, disgruntled musicians (and others) in their wake.

I'm not a hardcore fan/expert, but guys like longtime bassist/singer Joe Long appear to have gotten hosed. I was just recently reading about how Valli and Gaudio tried to set up the circa 1976-77 "Four Seasons" guys as an off-shoot band, with Valli going solo. Then Gaudio and Valli just pulled the rug out from under them.

The more you read about Valli, the more he kind of seems like something of a cross between Mike Love and Joe Pesci.

All of the people of this ilk surely have complicated, layered life and professional stories. I'm not trying to trash Valli. But even taken with plenty grains of salt, the story of his career includes many people feeling victimized to varying degrees.

And I'm not particularly sympathetic to the idea that he has been lip-syncing his shows for a decade give or take. Geez, at least Mike Love (apart from perhaps whatever he's doing with his McGrath playback at his recent shows) actually sings at his shows, and the stuff he can't sing, he hands off to some other guy to sing. 
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« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2018, 08:10:31 AM »

I watched/listened to a number of videos of Frankie "singing" in recent concerts, and was embarrassed, quite Frankly. Perhaps it isn't apparent to the actual audience, but geez, one would have to be a true pollyanna to think that his voice was anything other than a pre-recorded track to which he isn't even accompanying, even miming with any effort to. I really don't mind when a singer of an advanced age can't do everything he did in earlier years, but sings with others blending the high notes, etc., and can be appreciated because the place he's earned in musicdom. Mike and Brian shows are enjoyable to me for this reason, and Barry Gibb gets at there, albeit a few years younger, and earns his pennies. Is his falsetto and baritone in fine fettle? No, but it's his and he makes a sincere effort and still does it for me (I'm a chick, what can I say?)!

In terms of Frankie Valli's "dark side," a book called Big Girls Do Cry came out, coinciding with the Clint Eastwood-directed movie, Jersey Boys, that paints him in a really disgusting light in terms of his treatment of the opposite sex.   
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« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2018, 05:30:10 PM »

I remember commenting on Facebook somewhere that Frankie Valli has lip-synced for years, and man did the fans come with their claws out. They ridiculed me, dismissed me and were ready to rip me to shreds! So there are fans that will defend him and assert that he's actually singing to this day!
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« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2018, 05:54:40 PM »

I canít decide what is worse. The lip-syncing or the fact that at 83 he is still so damn good at it?
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« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2018, 05:58:52 PM »

You did not deserve to be ridiculed or ripped to shreds and whatever other indignity you suffered!  A quick perusal of performances in recent years on YouTube make your assertion blatantly obvious. And while I like a few of his songs and he is undeniably talented, he's not so special that I would  blindly fight for his honor.  
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« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2018, 11:03:09 PM »

You did not deserve to be ridiculed or ripped to shreds and whatever other indignity you suffered!  A quick perusal of performances in recent years on YouTube make your assertion blatantly obvious. And while I like a few of his songs and he is undeniably talented, he's not so special that I would  blindly fight for his honor.  
Thank you. I just stopped responding to the thread. I wish I could remember where it was so I could screenshot it and show it to you guys. It was crazy.
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« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2018, 09:25:09 AM »

Somewhere in the General Music section is a poster who saw them live and confirmed our suspicion, but I couldn't find it. couldn't find it. Trust me...
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« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2018, 09:39:18 AM »

Is it at all possible that Frankie is, in a sense, double tracking his vocals?  That is singing atop his already recorded vocal...and he missed one of 'em...thus making it look like he's lip-syncin'?  'Cause it does seem like he's also adding other audible vocal activity.  And his lips seem to work in tandem with the singing too much/too often to just be that 'lucky' at it.
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« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2018, 10:21:06 AM »

I think you might be right,
Lee
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« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2018, 02:08:16 PM »

Am I the only one here who is not a fan at all of the Four Seasons?
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« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2018, 02:29:42 PM »

I'm not a fan of the "dancing" Four Seasons either. Give me old time players any day over the younger dancer/singer types.
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« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2018, 02:49:01 PM »

I'm not a fan of the "dancing" Four Seasons either. Give me old time players any day over the younger dancer/singer types.

Second that.
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« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2018, 03:08:10 PM »

The original Four Seasons gave one of the best live perfomances I ever saw. The dancing version is bland, sorry, but that is my opinion. Designed for Broadway or UK West End stages ....not rock nor concert venues
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« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2018, 03:33:10 PM »

I'm a 60s fan certainly above and beyond the 70s output.  GREAT songs though from '62 and Sherry to '67 and C'mon Marianne.  Later on ... I prefer Dec. 63 over Who Loves You as well.  And solo...My Eyes Adored You to Grease.  But really?  The whole body of work is pretty impressive.  Few have done as well.
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"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
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« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2018, 06:37:11 PM »

Am I the only one here who is not a fan at all of the Four Seasons?
Billy! I am  Shocked. They were referenced as the east coast Beach Boys and had that great harmony thing goin' on with incredible hooks and tantalizing melodies. I mean like "Sherry", "Marlena", "Big Girls Don't Cry", "Candy Girl", "Walk Like A Man", etc. Maybe it really was an east coast thing, you know, the guys from New York, New Jersey. While they weren't the Beach Boys for sure, they did have a strong presence on the charts.  Cool
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« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2018, 06:55:25 PM »

Am I the only one here who is not a fan at all of the Four Seasons?
Billy! I am  Shocked. They were referenced as the east coast Beach Boys and had that great harmony thing goin' on with incredible hooks and tantalizing melodies. I mean like "Sherry", "Marlena", "Big Girls Don't Cry", "Candy Girl", "Walk Like A Man", etc. Maybe it really was an east coast thing, you know, the guys from New York, New Jersey. While they weren't the Beach Boys for sure, they did have a strong presence on the charts.  Cool

Thatís the thing... coming up, it took me a long time to get into The Beach Boys because I thought they were like the Four Seasons, whom Iíve never cared for. Well, thatís not entirely true... I donít mind the later period stuff. I really donít like Frankie Valliís falsetto.
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« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2018, 12:55:56 AM »

Child Father Of The Man
Adrian Baker ---- Frankie Valli  LOL

CEO's of grating falsettos
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« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2018, 03:37:45 AM »

Somewhere in the General Music section is a poster who saw them live and confirmed our suspicion, but I couldn't find it. couldn't find it. Trust me...

Was it here? http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,16685.msg569763.html#msg569763
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« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2018, 06:59:54 AM »

Yes, JK. And I looked at more recent videos, as well as older ones. A salient difference is that in the newer ones, he doesn't breathe as one would when singing. Example: "Call her ...rag Doll..." (expect to breathe as others sing refrain, then big breath and ...)"Such a pretty face..." The chest  barely moves; he simply breathes as one would during a close-range conversation. As an advanced age, I'm thinking that he should have to breathe even harder than in his youth.  Perhaps with Leonard Cohen-style of "singing"  this might be real, but...However, I'll defer to those who know more about these things. By the way, I give Frankie all due respect for his body of work. While not a fan per se, I could never do what he did! And  "Your Just Too Good to be True " is over-the-top-great, IMO.
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« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2018, 07:27:56 AM »

Is it at all possible that Frankie is, in a sense, double tracking his vocals?  That is singing atop his already recorded vocal...and he missed one of 'em...thus making it look like he's lip-syncin'?  'Cause it does seem like he's also adding other audible vocal activity.  And his lips seem to work in tandem with the singing too much/too often to just be that 'lucky' at it.

I've watched a ton of live videos on YouTube from his shows over the past decade, and every single one shows a single lead vocal, for which it looks and sounds like Valli is lip-syncing. For whatever reason, he's lip-syncing most or all of his shows and has been for many, many years. (The only reason I can't say with 100% certainty that every single song is canned is because people rarely post an entire show from start to finish on YouTube).

The music industry is nuts sometimes. Singers who *don't* need autotune use it. Brian Wilson, who absolutely *can* play piano, still "fake" played on his first tour in 1999. So I'm not even prepared to say Frankie Valli *can't* sing. The business is screwy enough that maybe his voice *isn't* 100% shot, yet he chooses to mime. Either way, the result is miming.
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« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2018, 07:29:01 AM »

I remember commenting on Facebook somewhere that Frankie Valli has lip-synced for years, and man did the fans come with their classes out. They ridiculed me, dismissed me and were ready to rip me to shreds! So there are fans that will defend him and assert that he's actually singing to this day!

The same thing appears to happen on YouTube comments. A bunch of people point out the *obvious* miming, and random people aggressively defend him, figuratively if not literally with fingers in their ears going "la la la la la, I'm not listening to you!"
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