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Author Topic: Brian at Hawthorne HS recently  (Read 4665 times)
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« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2018, 06:54:08 AM »

Scorcese's Dylan documentary was superb, absolutely top notch. Cleared up a lot of misunderstandings about him and was an outstanding editing job, tech-wise. You think you knew about Dylan until you watched that.

I'd wager a lot of people who weren't fans came away at least wanting to learn and hear more, if not getting a full conversion, after seeing that doc.

The Harrison doc was superb too, but for me maybe not as many revelations or "wow!" moments in terms of the history. But a definite must-see, and piggyback it with the Concert For George to hear his music presented in a totally new, respectful light.

It's impossible to say the Harrison doc is bad, that's for sure. It's a good film. But not great. I'd say if one watched it blindly, it would be hard to tell it's a *Scorsese* documentary. It smelled to me at the time like he kind of employed a team of researchers and interviews and whatnot to make most of the documentary. For such a long documentary, it got hung up on taking too much time to re-tell the Beatles story yet again. It glossed over a good amount of George's later career.

But for sheer access to footage and interview subjects, it still has some important stuff in it.

But even something like the Harrison doc, 3-4 hours long, would be great to have for the Beach Boys.

I'd add Queen and Pink Floyd to the list of bands that need an upgrade on retrospective docs.

BBC put together a Floyd one that aired on Vh1 Classic for a little while.   At 75 minutes or so, it was far too brief and rather offered no insight.  The period between Syd and Dark Side of the Moon was glossed over. 

The most recent Queen one - The Days Of Our Lives (2011) - was pretty decent, but still didn't really cover any ground not on The Magic Years (1987) or Champions of the World (1995)
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« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2018, 08:13:38 AM »

I don't remember hearing about that.   I remember there was a trailer on The Beach Boys Facebook page a year or two ago that looked to be a documentary on the current touring band, but it turned out that it was fan made. 

So, maybe Mike's doc went the way of that phantom "History of The Beach Boys" doc that was teased back in the summer of 2012......or did that become the Doin It Again doc?

Yeah, back in 2015 he had mentioned it in a couple interviews, here's one...

Quote
Interviewer: Do you plan on turning your new book into a film?

Mike: Well, Iím not doing it to make it into film. But being in India with Maharishi, meeting Marlon Brando, being friends with so many people in the music industry and some of the trials and tribulations, the ups and downs, it makes for quite a story. So I wouldnít be at all surprised if it were to become a film. However, in the meantime Iím hoping to come up with a documentary that really shows my point of view. I think that thatís plenty to do in the next six months to a year.

But I also remember one where he was fairly certain about the documentary in terms of being a companion with his book.

Hasn't Mike already made a documentary that shows his point of view?

It's called 'The Beach Boys: An American Family'
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« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2018, 08:48:44 AM »

What's Mike going to try to do to upstage this?

Claim that he wrote part of the song so he also gets an A

That's hilarious!  LOL
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« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2018, 08:55:41 AM »

Maybe Tommy Wiseau

Brian: ďI did not get an F, it's not true! It's bullshit! I did not get an F! [throws report card]. I did not. Oh hi, Mike.Ē

This needs to happen.

LOL
I think that's the room Mike Love is always referring to..... Wink
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« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2018, 09:00:17 AM »

Maybe Tommy Wiseau

Brian: ďI did not get an F, it's not true! It's bullshit! I did not get an F! [throws report card]. I did not. Oh hi, Mike.Ē

This needs to happen.

LOL
I think that's the room Mike Love is always referring to..... Wink

LOL the pieces are all coming together!
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« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2018, 09:20:49 AM »

I don't remember hearing about that.   I remember there was a trailer on The Beach Boys Facebook page a year or two ago that looked to be a documentary on the current touring band, but it turned out that it was fan made. 

So, maybe Mike's doc went the way of that phantom "History of The Beach Boys" doc that was teased back in the summer of 2012......or did that become the Doin It Again doc?

Yeah, back in 2015 he had mentioned it in a couple interviews, here's one...

Quote
Interviewer: Do you plan on turning your new book into a film?

Mike: Well, Iím not doing it to make it into film. But being in India with Maharishi, meeting Marlon Brando, being friends with so many people in the music industry and some of the trials and tribulations, the ups and downs, it makes for quite a story. So I wouldnít be at all surprised if it were to become a film. However, in the meantime Iím hoping to come up with a documentary that really shows my point of view. I think that thatís plenty to do in the next six months to a year.

But I also remember one where he was fairly certain about the documentary in terms of being a companion with his book.

Hasn't Mike already made a documentary that shows his point of view?

It's called 'The Beach Boys: An American Family'

Haha, you just nailed it. The history of The Beach Boys according to Mike and presented by John Stamos offered to the unknowing public at the time as the "official" history.

We finally get to see all the so-called leeches, drug pushers, and hangers-on portrayed by actors according to Mike's history of 1966-67. And how Mike was able to swoop in like Superman and save the day, and rid Brian of all the stuffed animals and ne'er-do-wells and get into the room to write some lyrics with his cousin.

One of the biggest loads of pure revisionism and pure crap that has ever been foisted on the fandom of this great band.
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« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2018, 09:24:23 AM »

... The Harrison doc was superb too, but for me maybe not as many revelations or "wow!" moments in terms of the history. But a definite must-see, and piggyback it with the Concert For George to hear his music presented in a totally new, respectful light.

... For such a long documentary, it got hung up on taking too much time to re-tell the Beatles story yet again. It glossed over a good amount of George's later career.

I was disappointed. I'm actually having trouble remembering any details, but my biggest gripe was the coverage of his solo career. Correct me if I'm misremembering, but it felt like the soundtrack to 'Living In The Material World' was nearly exclusively "All Things Must Pass'. Considering the length of the documentary (and even the title), I think I was hoping for/expecting a much more comprehensive documentary. I love Early Takes, though. That's nice to have. Still waiting on Volume 2 or maybe they'll skip to Volume 3 Wink

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« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2018, 09:25:14 AM »

Okay, this is an amusing story, a nice little publicity shot for Brian, but...come on, man...dude has a doctorate! Does he really need to appeal a half-century-old homework grade???!!  Smiley
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« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2018, 10:48:53 AM »

What's Mike going to try to do to upstage this?

Go back to kindergarten and get a new juice box

 LOL LOL
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« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2018, 10:54:01 AM »



Yeah, talk of documentaries from both camps makes me wish PBS did a 3 part/6 hour unbiased series on the entire band  

I too wish for there to be an unbiased series. Sadly, I feel absolutely certain that the only way this will happen is when the principals are no longer with us, and nobody is around to try and force an agenda, or shut down content that actually speaks about the role narcissism played in the trajectory of this band (and its affect on the music, band, and the members). That's been the huge elephant in the room that I don't think has *ever* been talked about at length (or at all?) in any documentary about this band, and there's no way anyone can be honest with themselves and claim that isn't a big part of the story.   The actual *word* needs to be used and not stepped around.
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« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2018, 10:57:18 AM »



Yeah, talk of documentaries from both camps makes me wish PBS did a 3 part/6 hour unbiased series on the entire band  

I too wish for there to be an unbiased series. Sadly, I feel absolutely certain that the only way this will happen is when the principals are no longer with us, and nobody is around to try and force an agenda, or shut down content that actually speaks about the role narcissism played in the trajectory of this band (and its affect on the music, band, and the members). That's been the huge elephant in the room that I don't think has *ever* been talked about at length (or at all?) in any documentary about this band, and there's no way anyone can be honest with themselves and claim that isn't a big part of the story.   The actual *word* needs to be used and not stepped around.

Riiiight, because that would be unbiased and free of any agenda

 LOL
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« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2018, 11:01:22 AM »



Yeah, talk of documentaries from both camps makes me wish PBS did a 3 part/6 hour unbiased series on the entire band  

I too wish for there to be an unbiased series. Sadly, I feel absolutely certain that the only way this will happen is when the principals are no longer with us, and nobody is around to try and force an agenda, or shut down content that actually speaks about the role narcissism played in the trajectory of this band (and its affect on the music, band, and the members). That's been the huge elephant in the room that I don't think has *ever* been talked about at length (or at all?) in any documentary about this band, and there's no way anyone can be honest with themselves and claim that isn't a big part of the story.   The actual *word* needs to be used and not stepped around.
Sadly I think you're right
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« Reply #62 on: January 18, 2018, 11:01:40 AM »



Yeah, talk of documentaries from both camps makes me wish PBS did a 3 part/6 hour unbiased series on the entire band  

I too wish for there to be an unbiased series. Sadly, I feel absolutely certain that the only way this will happen is when the principals are no longer with us, and nobody is around to try and force an agenda, or shut down content that actually speaks about the role narcissism played in the trajectory of this band (and its affect on the music, band, and the members). That's been the huge elephant in the room that I don't think has *ever* been talked about at length (or at all?) in any documentary about this band, and there's no way anyone can be honest with themselves and claim that isn't a big part of the story.   The actual *word* needs to be used and not stepped around.

Riiiight, because that would be unbiased and free of any agenda

 LOL

I'm not suggesting a hit piece, just an honest talk about this uncomfortable, but sadly unavoidable (if it's actually an unbiased series) subject. Just as that same subject could not and should not be avoided in any real, proper, and unbiased documentary (should one be made) about guys like Phil Spector or Billy Corgan. I honestly, truly, from the bottom of my heart am not suggesting this be done with the intent to diminish the reputation of a particular member of this band, but simply an honest discussion about things. I'm sure if it were properly done, some empathy would come his way too if the probable root causes were discussed.
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« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2018, 11:08:08 AM »



Yeah, talk of documentaries from both camps makes me wish PBS did a 3 part/6 hour unbiased series on the entire band  

I too wish for there to be an unbiased series. Sadly, I feel absolutely certain that the only way this will happen is when the principals are no longer with us, and nobody is around to try and force an agenda, or shut down content that actually speaks about the role narcissism played in the trajectory of this band (and its affect on the music, band, and the members). That's been the huge elephant in the room that I don't think has *ever* been talked about at length (or at all?) in any documentary about this band, and there's no way anyone can be honest with themselves and claim that isn't a big part of the story.   The actual *word* needs to be used and not stepped around.

Riiiight, because that would be unbiased and free of any agenda

 LOL

I'm not suggesting a hit piece, just an honest talk about this uncomfortable, but sadly unavoidable (if it's actually an unbiased series) subject. Just as that same subject could not and should not be avoided in any real, proper, and unbiased documentary (should one be made) about guys like Phil Spector or Billy Corgan. I honestly, truly, from the bottom of my heart am not suggesting this be done with the intent to diminish the reputation of a particular member of this band, but simply an honest discussion about things. I'm sure if it were properly done, some empathy would come his way too if the probable root causes were discussed.

Possibly, and I'm not at all saying Mike was a saint or anything.  I just think The Beach Boys history is wrought with issues, and if you're going to discuss any of Mike's foibles, then an unbiased documentary should give equal time to everything that plagued the band, be in the substance abuse of the Wilson brothers, Manson, Landy, poor musical decisions (ie Smiley Smile instead of Smile, no Dennis songs on Surf's Up, becoming a nostalgia band after Endless Summer, ill advised forays into disco and rap), etc etc etc. 
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« Reply #64 on: January 18, 2018, 11:09:16 AM »



Yeah, talk of documentaries from both camps makes me wish PBS did a 3 part/6 hour unbiased series on the entire band  

I too wish for there to be an unbiased series. Sadly, I feel absolutely certain that the only way this will happen is when the principals are no longer with us, and nobody is around to try and force an agenda, or shut down content that actually speaks about the role narcissism played in the trajectory of this band (and its affect on the music, band, and the members). That's been the huge elephant in the room that I don't think has *ever* been talked about at length (or at all?) in any documentary about this band, and there's no way anyone can be honest with themselves and claim that isn't a big part of the story.   The actual *word* needs to be used and not stepped around.

Riiiight, because that would be unbiased and free of any agenda

 LOL

I'm not suggesting a hit piece, just an honest talk about this uncomfortable, but sadly unavoidable (if it's actually an unbiased series) subject. Just as that same subject could not and should not be avoided in any real, proper, and unbiased documentary (should one be made) about guys like Phil Spector or Billy Corgan. I honestly, truly, from the bottom of my heart am not suggesting this be done with the intent to diminish the reputation of a particular member of this band, but simply an honest discussion about things. I'm sure if it were properly done, some empathy would come his way too if the probable root causes were discussed.

Possibly, and I'm not at all saying Mike was a saint or anything.  I just think The Beach Boys history is wrought with issues, and if you're going to discuss any of Mike's foibles, then an unbiased documentary should give equal time to everything that plagued the band, be in the substance abuse of the Wilson brothers, Manson, Landy, poor musical decisions (ie Smiley Smile instead of Smile, no Dennis songs on Surf's Up, becoming a nostalgia band after Endless Summer, ill advised forays into disco and rap), etc etc etc.  

Agreed. I think there could be a decent, sensitive way to discuss this stuff, although it wouldn't be easy, without it being done in a tabloid/agenda-driven manner. Yet of course I also understand that band members' families may wish for privacy regarding certain matters too.

But the narcissism angle is **way, way** too big a part of the story to just causally avoid. We're talking decades of consequences.
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« Reply #65 on: January 18, 2018, 11:15:52 AM »



Yeah, talk of documentaries from both camps makes me wish PBS did a 3 part/6 hour unbiased series on the entire band  

I too wish for there to be an unbiased series. Sadly, I feel absolutely certain that the only way this will happen is when the principals are no longer with us, and nobody is around to try and force an agenda, or shut down content that actually speaks about the role narcissism played in the trajectory of this band (and its affect on the music, band, and the members). That's been the huge elephant in the room that I don't think has *ever* been talked about at length (or at all?) in any documentary about this band, and there's no way anyone can be honest with themselves and claim that isn't a big part of the story.   The actual *word* needs to be used and not stepped around.

Riiiight, because that would be unbiased and free of any agenda

 LOL

I'm not suggesting a hit piece, just an honest talk about this uncomfortable, but sadly unavoidable (if it's actually an unbiased series) subject. Just as that same subject could not and should not be avoided in any real, proper, and unbiased documentary (should one be made) about guys like Phil Spector or Billy Corgan. I honestly, truly, from the bottom of my heart am not suggesting this be done with the intent to diminish the reputation of a particular member of this band, but simply an honest discussion about things. I'm sure if it were properly done, some empathy would come his way too if the probable root causes were discussed.

Possibly, and I'm not at all saying Mike was a saint or anything.  I just think The Beach Boys history is wrought with issues, and if you're going to discuss any of Mike's foibles, then an unbiased documentary should give equal time to everything that plagued the band, be in the substance abuse of the Wilson brothers, Manson, Landy, poor musical decisions (ie Smiley Smile instead of Smile, no Dennis songs on Surf's Up, becoming a nostalgia band after Endless Summer, ill advised forays into disco and rap), etc etc etc.  

Agreed. I think there could be a decent, sensitive way to discuss this stuff, although it wouldn't be easy, without it being done in a tabloid/agenda-driven manner. Yet of course I also understand that band members' families may wish for privacy regarding certain matters too.

But the narcissism angle is **way, way** too big a part of the story to just causally avoid. We're talking decades of consequences.

I think the only way you can tell the story while mentioning all of the BB issues without it going into tabloid fodder would be to do an extensive doc like what's been mentioned.  That way the darkness doesn't completely overshadow the light. 

I'm fine with that angle being acknowledged as long as it doesn't perpetuate the belief that Mike is the devil, and Brian, Carl, Dennis, and Al are angels. 
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« Reply #66 on: January 18, 2018, 11:17:11 AM »



Yeah, talk of documentaries from both camps makes me wish PBS did a 3 part/6 hour unbiased series on the entire band  

I too wish for there to be an unbiased series. Sadly, I feel absolutely certain that the only way this will happen is when the principals are no longer with us, and nobody is around to try and force an agenda, or shut down content that actually speaks about the role narcissism played in the trajectory of this band (and its affect on the music, band, and the members). That's been the huge elephant in the room that I don't think has *ever* been talked about at length (or at all?) in any documentary about this band, and there's no way anyone can be honest with themselves and claim that isn't a big part of the story.   The actual *word* needs to be used and not stepped around.

Riiiight, because that would be unbiased and free of any agenda

 LOL

I'm not suggesting a hit piece, just an honest talk about this uncomfortable, but sadly unavoidable (if it's actually an unbiased series) subject. Just as that same subject could not and should not be avoided in any real, proper, and unbiased documentary (should one be made) about guys like Phil Spector or Billy Corgan. I honestly, truly, from the bottom of my heart am not suggesting this be done with the intent to diminish the reputation of a particular member of this band, but simply an honest discussion about things. I'm sure if it were properly done, some empathy would come his way too if the probable root causes were discussed.

Possibly, and I'm not at all saying Mike was a saint or anything.  I just think The Beach Boys history is wrought with issues, and if you're going to discuss any of Mike's foibles, then an unbiased documentary should give equal time to everything that plagued the band, be in the substance abuse of the Wilson brothers, Manson, Landy, poor musical decisions (ie Smiley Smile instead of Smile, no Dennis songs on Surf's Up, becoming a nostalgia band after Endless Summer, ill advised forays into disco and rap), etc etc etc.  

Agreed. I think there could be a decent, sensitive way to discuss this stuff, although it wouldn't be easy, without it being done in a tabloid/agenda-driven manner. Yet of course I also understand that band members' families may wish for privacy regarding certain matters too.

But the narcissism angle is **way, way** too big a part of the story to just causally avoid. We're talking decades of consequences.

I think the only way you can tell the story while mentioning all of the BB issues without it going into tabloid fodder would be to do an extensive doc like what's been mentioned.  That way the darkness doesn't completely overshadow the light. 

I'm fine with that angle being acknowledged as long as it doesn't perpetuate the belief that Mike is the devil, and Brian, Carl, Dennis, and Al are angels. 

Fair enough.
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« Reply #67 on: January 18, 2018, 11:34:03 AM »

Getting back on topic (sorta), I wonder if any BB band member left any evidence of their high school attendance, such as graffiti in bathroom stalls, names/initials carved into wooden desks, etc?
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« Reply #68 on: January 18, 2018, 11:45:01 AM »

Getting back on topic (sorta), I wonder if any BB band member left any evidence of their high school attendance, such as graffiti in bathroom stalls, names/initials carved into wooden desks, etc?

Also those cards left in the back of library books (before computers came along) that would specify who took what book and when. I can see a book on composing or baseball being checked out by Brian at one point or another.
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« Reply #69 on: January 18, 2018, 11:50:00 AM »

Getting back on topic (sorta), I wonder if any BB band member left any evidence of their high school attendance, such as graffiti in bathroom stalls, names/initials carved into wooden desks, etc?

Also those cards left in the back of library books (before computers came along) that would specify who took what book and when. I can see a book on composing or baseball being checked out by Brian at one point or another.

If it's anything like the schools I attended some of those cards might still be there. 
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« Reply #70 on: January 18, 2018, 12:12:21 PM »

Getting back on topic (sorta), I wonder if any BB band member left any evidence of their high school attendance, such as graffiti in bathroom stalls, names/initials carved into wooden desks, etc?

Also those cards left in the back of library books (before computers came along) that would specify who took what book and when. I can see a book on composing or baseball being checked out by Brian at one point or another.

If it's anything like the schools I attended some of those cards might still be there. 

Yeah, what made me think of it was my father was recently sent one that had his name in it from a school he attended long ago. He probably checked that book out when The Beach Boys were still making hits!
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« Reply #71 on: January 18, 2018, 01:58:26 PM »

... The Harrison doc was superb too, but for me maybe not as many revelations or "wow!" moments in terms of the history. But a definite must-see, and piggyback it with the Concert For George to hear his music presented in a totally new, respectful light.

... For such a long documentary, it got hung up on taking too much time to re-tell the Beatles story yet again. It glossed over a good amount of George's later career.

I was disappointed. I'm actually having trouble remembering any details, but my biggest gripe was the coverage of his solo career. Correct me if I'm misremembering, but it felt like the soundtrack to 'Living In The Material World' was nearly exclusively "All Things Must Pass'. Considering the length of the documentary (and even the title), I think I was hoping for/expecting a much more comprehensive documentary. I love Early Takes, though. That's nice to have. Still waiting on Volume 2 or maybe they'll skip to Volume 3 Wink


The "Early Takes" CD was a total hodge podge, and was predominantly ATMP outtakes. Great stuff, no question. But it definitely didn't accompany the film particularly. And yeah, they haven't done any more volumes. For some reason, Harrison's estate continually reissues stuff that's already been out instead of digging into the archives.

The film itself ignored most of his solo career post-1974 tour other than the Wilburys and a few other bits.

It certainly highlights why the BBs need a long documentary. "Endless Harmony" covered 37 years in about 105 minutes, while the Harrison doc covered about 40 in like 3 1/2 hours or whatever it was.
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« Reply #72 on: January 18, 2018, 02:01:59 PM »

Concerning a long-form BB documentary along the lines of a "Beatles Anthology", while there are many reasons it's difficult to pull off, one big one is music clearances. A 6-hour-ish documentary would have to include a ton of music, and all of that has to be paid for. One of the reasons things like the C50 live Blu-ray or the Knebworth 1980 DVD have truncated setlists is that they had to pay for sync rights to every composition, and that can get expensive.

Additionally, they have to clear the rights to the actual recordings as well, not to mention video/film footage.

Now, I wouldn't mind just six hours of interviews without any music or vintage footage, but that wouldn't sell to anybody but the hardcore fans.

BRI would probably need to hook in some sort of financier like HBO or something to front the money to do the thing.
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« Reply #73 on: January 18, 2018, 09:19:32 PM »

If this were pitched tomorrow, as of January 2018, the surviving members would never be able to come together on the telling of certain events or the postgame recap of where the band's status exists today. Just look at Mike's book for some examples.

I doubt they'd even be able to get into the same room without a legal document full of demands.

It defines the word clusterfuck.

Seriously, does anyone think something like a consensus would be reached when the topic of C50 comes up for the documentary? Not a chance in hell.
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« Reply #74 on: January 18, 2018, 11:04:21 PM »

... The Harrison doc was superb too, but for me maybe not as many revelations or "wow!" moments in terms of the history. But a definite must-see, and piggyback it with the Concert For George to hear his music presented in a totally new, respectful light.

... For such a long documentary, it got hung up on taking too much time to re-tell the Beatles story yet again. It glossed over a good amount of George's later career.

I was disappointed. I'm actually having trouble remembering any details, but my biggest gripe was the coverage of his solo career. Correct me if I'm misremembering, but it felt like the soundtrack to 'Living In The Material World' was nearly exclusively "All Things Must Pass'. Considering the length of the documentary (and even the title), I think I was hoping for/expecting a much more comprehensive documentary. I love Early Takes, though. That's nice to have. Still waiting on Volume 2 or maybe they'll skip to Volume 3 Wink


The "Early Takes" CD was a total hodge podge, and was predominantly ATMP outtakes. Great stuff, no question. But it definitely didn't accompany the film particularly. And yeah, they haven't done any more volumes. For some reason, Harrison's estate continually reissues stuff that's already been out instead of digging into the archives.

The film itself ignored most of his solo career post-1974 tour other than the Wilburys and a few other bits.

It certainly highlights why the BBs need a long documentary. "Endless Harmony" covered 37 years in about 105 minutes, while the Harrison doc covered about 40 in like 3 1/2 hours or whatever it was.


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1113829/soundtrack
I'm not sure how complete this soundtrack is, but proportionally it underscores my problem with the documentary.

All Things Must Pass: 9 songs
Living In The Material World: 2 songs
Dark Horse: 1 song
Traveling Wilburys: 4 songs
Brainwashed: 3 songs

I really need to re-watch this sometime, now that I know what to expect...


Do you think anything will ever come of a "Brainwashed 2" project? I remember being teased that there was more music that Jeff and Dhani were interested in working on and possibly releasing at some point. I'm all for it.

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