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636323 Posts in 25445 Topics by 3621 Members - Latest Member: rickyroma August 16, 2018, 02:31:00 PM
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Author Topic: Can "Summer in Paradise" be salvaged?  (Read 8625 times)
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« Reply #75 on: January 16, 2018, 10:23:23 AM »

I think some of it had to be Melcher's production ethos of the time. I'm guessing the track "Still Cruisin'" wasn't recorded on ProTools, having been recorded in 1989. I don't know if it was a digital or analog recording, but either way, that track has that same thing, shrill sound that SIP has. Little to no bottom end.

Melcher's production work with the band also hurt the group vocals. His productions didn't seem to let them breathe too much. Even the processed (possibly at times synthesized) group vocal stacks on BB '85 produced by Steve Levine are warmer and fuller-sounding.
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« Reply #76 on: January 16, 2018, 10:31:05 AM »

I'd draw the direct line from SIP right to "Unleash The Love" in terms of recording technology being used in such a ham-fisted way that it ruins the songs buried underneath all that digital mush. And there is one constant factor between both projects, and his credit is usually "executive producer" or something similar.

I actually don't place as much blame on Melcher, to be honest. If he took the job and was given the task of recreating "the Kokomo sound" on Mike's new material and his "concept album" in hopes of piggybacking on the fluke success of that soundtrack single, he had to work in a certain way to try recreating those sounds for Mike and those paying him to produce the record, and again it was a fool's errand of a goal from the beginning which led to some really bad sounding Beach Boys releases.
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« Reply #77 on: January 16, 2018, 10:57:39 AM »

I'd draw the direct line from SIP right to "Unleash The Love" in terms of recording technology being used in such a ham-fisted way that it ruins the songs buried underneath all that digital mush. And there is one constant factor between both projects, and his credit is usually "executive producer" or something similar.

I actually don't place as much blame on Melcher, to be honest. If he took the job and was given the task of recreating "the Kokomo sound" on Mike's new material and his "concept album" in hopes of piggybacking on the fluke success of that soundtrack single, he had to work in a certain way to try recreating those sounds for Mike and those paying him to produce the record, and again it was a fool's errand of a goal from the beginning which led to some really bad sounding Beach Boys releases.

I would gladly take the production style of SIP over the Autotune horrors of Unleash the Love ANY DAY.
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« Reply #78 on: January 16, 2018, 11:08:36 AM »

Melcher's position vis-ŗ-vis the Beach Boys, especially in the mid-late 80s, is interesting. In the Gary Usher/McParland book, it's implied that Melcher and Usher (and I guess, ironically, Brian himself) are all kind of vying to be *the* producer for the band.

Melcher was to some degree indeed at the mercy of whatever the BBs threw at him (though Melcher was co-writing a lot of material with Mike). But I do think in pure sonic terms (recording, mixing, mastering) Melcher does foot a good hunk of the responsibility. He co-wrote "Still Cruisin" and much/most of SIP *and* also produced the sessions. He's a pretty big player in the game, even if beholden to Mike's decisions ultimately. I certainly wouldn't put *more* blame on Melcher than Mike Love. If Melcher had been busy with some other band or something, Mike almost surely would have made SIP happen in much the same way with some other producer.
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« Reply #79 on: January 16, 2018, 12:13:22 PM »

Melcher's position vis-ŗ-vis the Beach Boys, especially in the mid-late 80s, is interesting. In the Gary Usher/McParland book, it's implied that Melcher and Usher (and I guess, ironically, Brian himself) are all kind of vying to be *the* producer for the band.

Melcher was to some degree indeed at the mercy of whatever the BBs threw at him (though Melcher was co-writing a lot of material with Mike). But I do think in pure sonic terms (recording, mixing, mastering) Melcher does foot a good hunk of the responsibility. He co-wrote "Still Cruisin" and much/most of SIP *and* also produced the sessions. He's a pretty big player in the game, even if beholden to Mike's decisions ultimately. I certainly wouldn't put *more* blame on Melcher than Mike Love. If Melcher had been busy with some other band or something, Mike almost surely would have made SIP happen in much the same way with some other producer.

I like *some* of Melcher's sounds in the BBs' canon around this time, guilty pleasures as they may be. I wonder how much Melcher was responsible for the sound of The BBs in the 80s/90s, in relation to how much he was responsible for The Byrds' sound in the mid-1960s.

Was Melcher a producer who really left his sonic mark in both instances, or did those albums sort of arrive at the sounds they did just out of circumstance, and less due to him pushing for a certain type of sound? Being that different producers yield different levels of control (which of course can vary from project to project). I love The Byrds, but am unfamiliar with the details of those albums' production, as they might compare to Brian Wilson's or George Martin's production footprint on BBs and Beatles albums.

Some bands, of course, will have members that fill an uncredited "Producer" or "Co-Producer" type roll. Was Melcher more of a Nik Venet type, where he didn't do much to make the albums sound the way they did, or more like Brian Wilson who was hugely involved in his heyday, or somewhere inbetween?

Sad that we lost Terry too young, as he could perhaps have answered many of these questions.
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« Reply #80 on: January 16, 2018, 04:17:14 PM »

The more I listen the more I actually think the production on the first disc of Unleash The Love is quite good, besides the autotune. At least there are real instruments being played in interesting ways. All The Love In Paris, Crescent Moon, and Ram Raj all are well produced (besides the auotune). Disc Two is where we get into the really horrible production. It's odd, the drums were way too trebely on SIP (to the point where it hurts my ears) and on Unleash The Love it sounds like all of the high frequencies were taken out of the drums (especially Fun Fun Fun and WIBN--- the snare barely sounds like a snare, all the drums sound like muffled toms)
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« Reply #81 on: January 16, 2018, 08:12:07 PM »

GoogaMooga, I agree with you 100% about finding at least something good in every BBs release. There are things I like on SIP, KTSA, Looking Back With Love, Unleash The Love, Going Public, Nascar, Summertime Cruisin, etc... I, like you said, just can't get enough!

Good man!  Cheesy Nate, now we are two! But "Summertime Cruisin" I am not familiar with, how does that fit into the discography?
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« Reply #82 on: January 16, 2018, 08:34:29 PM »

It's similar to the Nascar CD. In fact, it has many of the same tracks. It's credited to Mike Love & Bruce Johnston of The Beach Boys, but it's really Mike with Adrian Baker, like the Nascar CD.

https://www.discogs.com/Mike-Love-Bruce-Johnston-Summertime-Cruisin-The-Unforgettable-Favourites-Of-Mike-Love-And-Bruce-John/release/8573359
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« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2018, 09:07:32 PM »

I'm just offering my opinion, but those "albums" like the NASCAR gas station giveaway, "Summertime Cruisin", and anything similar and related are some of the most unlistenable sh*t I've ever heard, and same goes for the related outtakes like "Bakers Dozen" on bootleg, and Mike's Radio Shack releases with Dean. Just pure dreck. Unlistenable dreck.

I've listened to them. I don't regret doing that but I wish I could take back the time I spent doing so. To each his own. But it shows exactly what Mike brought to the table in terms of the 80's and 90's and his skippering the SS Beach Boys into numerous icebergs that were sticking 20 feet high out of the water.

But...just my opinion.
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« Reply #84 on: January 17, 2018, 07:04:03 AM »

Those Mike/Adrian Baker recordings (in any iteration) can only be described as good in the same way that, when you're a child, you're told to do a report on something and "say one positive thing and one negative thing" about something.

The only moment of intrigue for me on an of that stuff is the surprising choice to have Mike sing "Ballad of Ole Betsy." His performance isn't great, but it's a rare case of Mike taking on and old Brian falsetto-ish vocal.

But nobody needed those remakes (and the hand full of "new" songs like "Summertime Music" are beyond generic), and even if one were inclined to do re-recordings, Baker's stuff is very, very cheap-sounding.
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« Reply #85 on: January 17, 2018, 07:22:46 AM »

I'm just offering my opinion, but those "albums" like the NASCAR gas station giveaway, "Summertime Cruisin", and anything similar and related are some of the most unlistenable sh*t I've ever heard, and same goes for the related outtakes like "Bakers Dozen" on bootleg, and Mike's Radio Shack releases with Dean. Just pure dreck. Unlistenable dreck.

I've listened to them. I don't regret doing that but I wish I could take back the time I spent doing so. To each his own. But it shows exactly what Mike brought to the table in terms of the 80's and 90's and his skippering the SS Beach Boys into numerous icebergs that were sticking 20 feet high out of the water.

But...just my opinion.
Tell it, brother! And yes, my opinion of that contaminated waste reads exactly the same as yours.
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« Reply #86 on: January 17, 2018, 07:42:21 AM »

The more I listen the more I actually think the production on the first disc of Unleash The Love is quite good, besides the autotune. At least there are real instruments being played in interesting ways. All The Love In Paris, Crescent Moon, and Ram Raj all are well produced (besides the auotune). Disc Two is where we get into the really horrible production. It's odd, the drums were way too trebely on SIP (to the point where it hurts my ears) and on Unleash The Love it sounds like all of the high frequencies were taken out of the drums (especially Fun Fun Fun and WIBN--- the snare barely sounds like a snare, all the drums sound like muffled toms)

Re disc 1 production; itís good if youíre comparing it to disc 2, but thatís like comparing a 7/11 hotdog to a Sheetz hotdog, one may taste better than the other but either way youíre feeling sick afterwards.

All The Love In Paris sounds like it was recorded in a closet then someone slapped artificial reverb on every instrument, Getcha Back feels the same way. The only track on there that has any authentic feel of atmosphere is Ram Raj. Listening again to some of these tracks, I just canít believe how unprofessional the auto-tune sounds, or why on earth it was even put on nearly every Mike lead. Iíd rather hear an honest human vocal flub than a robot morph Mikeís voice into a clusterfuck of digitized hilarity.
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« Reply #87 on: January 17, 2018, 09:47:28 AM »

Wawa hot dogs are actually good..... Wink
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« Reply #88 on: January 17, 2018, 11:57:01 AM »

Wawa hot dogs are actually good..... Wink
w00t! And their hoagies rock! Any size coffee for a buck!  Shocked
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« Reply #89 on: January 17, 2018, 12:06:19 PM »

Wawa hot dogs are actually good..... Wink
w00t! And their hoagies rock! Any size coffee for a buck!  Shocked

I don't think I've ever bought any of their hot food.   When I go, it's usually a pit stop on the way to the beach, and I'll get a coffee, soda, or candy bar.   But it always smells heavenly in WaWa.
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« Reply #90 on: January 17, 2018, 12:06:31 PM »

T'was my birthday the other day  ... [and to be crystal clear I'm still NOWHERE near as old as OSD...not even close...Who is?...but I digress] ...  A friend decided that he needed to give me 'Unleash the Diuretic Dawg'.  He thought that that would work for me.  A nice sentiment but it remains sealed.  Classic Rock magazine's Rob Hughes' review is a biting revelation of the poop contained there-in.  It says, in part, "Love doesn't do himself any favours on his first solo album in 26 years." and he adds  "Nothing can save the album itself, however.  Love offers up the kind of unrelenting tame MOR that makes Christopher Cross look edgy.  What's worse, the lyrics are packed with so many trite cliches that you can't help but wince."  Of EVERYTHING reviewed...new or old...l.p. or book...THIS item received the absolute lowest reviewed rating...a mere 4 out of 10.  Rob is obviously generous.  Still... ... ...

Imagine if Hughes had to review 'S.I.Pee'?  Well it'll never make their 'Reissues' section...so he's safe.  Like G.F. I do so wish I had the time back that I spent listening to some of hat-boy's non Beach Boys releases.  I am not so much of a collector that I kept his vinyl 'attempts'.  They take up too much space...and they'll never-EVER get played again so why bother?  So I turfed them, like 25 years ago, when we moved from point A to point B while we were still in Toronto.  The guy is a 'B' player at best.  Brian made him 'seem' like a A-lister but he never was and S.I. Pee was only ever destined for the '3 c.d.s for 5 bucks' bin.  [the other 2 c.d.s selected worth $2.50 each]

Yes...yes...SMART-guy!!!  I still have both the vinyl and c.d. of S.I.Piss.  I cannot tell a lie.  I do want to have the complete Beach Boys 'set'...and in both formats.  What I don't want is Mike Love Reimagining Gershwin...OR Brian Wilson.
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"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
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« Reply #91 on: January 17, 2018, 12:49:06 PM »

T'was my birthday the other day  ... [and to be crystal clear I'm still NOWHERE near as old as OSD...not even close...Who is?...

Aye, you canít put an age on the immortal ones - OSDs work will endure forever. 1000s of years from now archeologists of a future civilization will be combing the ruins of the early internet, there they will find some of the funniest and truest statements regarding Mike Love ever to be written.

Also happy birthday, Add Some.
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« Reply #92 on: January 17, 2018, 07:55:25 PM »

T'was my birthday the other day  ... [and to be crystal clear I'm still NOWHERE near as old as OSD...not even close...Who is?...

Aye, you canít put an age on the immortal ones - OSDs work will endure forever. 1000s of years from now archeologists of a future civilization will be combing the ruins of the early internet, there they will find some of the funniest and truest statements regarding Mike Love ever to be written.

Also happy birthday, Add Some.
Well, Happy Birthday Add Some ya ol' coot. C'mon now, you're not that young, huh?
Rab, thanks for your tribute. Made my night and I'll keep it going as long as myKe luHv keeps being a dirtbag.
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« Reply #93 on: January 17, 2018, 08:01:25 PM »

For AddSome:  w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t!
And for OSD  :  w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t!

As far as Mike's solo efforts...just give a listen. That's all you'll ever need to know about the whole scene. The guy musically has been bluffing a high-stakes poker game with a pair of deuces for decades.
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"Every single person who criticized Brian for having She & Him, Kacey Musgraves, Sebu and Nate Ruess guesting on his solo album can now officially go heartily f*** themselves." - Wirestone
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« Reply #94 on: January 18, 2018, 05:34:48 AM »

Add some and OSD rule!
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« Reply #95 on: January 18, 2018, 02:28:58 PM »

Aw shucks you guys...  Embarrassed  Brian rules Smile Brian.  OSD and I just know 'who' doesn't.  To be fair that list is far longer than just the 2 of us.  I could start typing it but, at 60 words a minute I'd still be typing well past my 80th birthday...if I make it that long.  'He' likely will.  I hope he's retired by then.  No more books, no more records/cds/recording of any kind, no more performances, no more speeches and...most of all...no more interviews.  Enough already!!!

Once he goes away...it'll be easier to remember his early 60s contributions with some degree of 'fondness'.  Repeat..."SOME" degree.  There are 360 degrees not true?  He was of some value to the launching of the product.  1963 and 1964 were good years in that regard...and once in a while further along the way.  According to *my* calculations old 'chrome dome' has been 'Beach Boying' to some degree, or another, for many of these last 664 months.  [ie: Oct '61 'til now.]  To be kind...I would give him credit for being an important part of it all for 24 solid months and if you add up all of his occasional contributions perhaps another 3 months if you really stretch it out over the preceding and ensuing years.  That's 27 out of 664 months.  Now the touring Beached Boys of which he is a part...although he historically always lived off of Brian's back, then Carl's back, and more frequently off of Scott's back...'cause he sure as sh*t can't do any of 'this' on his own...might allow him ['cause really Scott hasn't been around to prop up the band and guide it all that long] a further 3 months...so add it up some.  I'm sayin' that 'he' has been a key ingredient for 30 of 664 months.  OK...it's subjective.  [but I don't see YOU typing.]

30 out of 664 is what?  4.5...that's four point five...percent of the time.  That sounds about right.  Come on OSD...Give it up!!!  It works out to 16.2 degrees of fondness...out of 360.  That's PLENTY accurate as far as I can tell.
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So then...Can Summer in Paradise be salvaged?  The answer isn't merely NO!!!.  It's also Why bother???  Wanna "salvage" it?  Press 'flush' and wish it well.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 04:31:03 PM by Add Some » Logged

"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
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« Reply #96 on: January 18, 2018, 05:50:06 PM »

Hard to surpass that level of sarcasm, but consider this: if Mike hadn't been a constant all those years, if he hadn't soldiered on, being the frontman and pitching in with the occasional inspired lyrics and some pretty good songs (fourth best songwriter of the principal nine?) now and then, would we even have this forum here today? Would there even be a Beach Boys, or factions? People talk of Carl being the anchor, but who left the band for two years? Contrast with the man who never quit the band. Who believed in the idea all along. To suggest that Mike only contributed lyrics or songs of value in the beginning is, well, contentious.  Smiley I'll keep my SiP, make judicious use of the skip button in doing so, and I'll even order Unleash... just out of curiosity.
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« Reply #97 on: January 18, 2018, 08:13:58 PM »

Hard to surpass that level of sarcasm, but consider this: if Mike hadn't been a constant all those years, if he hadn't soldiered on, being the frontman and pitching in with the occasional inspired lyrics and some pretty good songs (fourth best songwriter of the principal nine?) now and then, would we even have this forum here today? Would there even be a Beach Boys, or factions? People talk of Carl being the anchor, but who left the band for two years? Contrast with the man who never quit the band. Who believed in the idea all along. To suggest that Mike only contributed lyrics or songs of value in the beginning is, well, contentious.  Smiley I'll keep my SiP, make judicious use of the skip button in doing so, and I'll even order Unleash... just out of curiosity.

Let me get this straight. No myKe, no SS Board? No myKe no Beach Boys, just factions? (I'll take a myKeless faction), Carl not the anchor because myKe didn't wanna practice? Quite honestly, I would have loved 'em even more than I did had that clown been jettisoned in 1967 thereby getting rid of the worst voice in the band and the absolutely worst songwriter among them. "Summer of Love" anyone? The list goes on and on and on.
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« Reply #98 on: January 18, 2018, 09:01:04 PM »

Ahh, the old line of PR comes up again...Mike carrying the torch, the whole frontman thing, yep. There it is again. Maybe instead of asking what-ifs regarding Mike skippering ahead with the band name license, ask why didn't they retire the band name after Carl passed away and let Mike tour on his own merits under his own name.
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ďSome people think you have to knock somebody down in order to build yourself up, I donít look at it that way. To the mentality that likes to disparage other people, I say perhaps you should get a life. Itís just wrong thinking in my opinion and I donít mind saying that.Ē - Mike Love

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« Reply #99 on: January 18, 2018, 09:25:29 PM »

Ahh, the old line of PR comes up again...Mike carrying the torch, the whole frontman thing, yep. There it is again. Maybe instead of asking what-ifs regarding Mike skippering ahead with the band name license, ask why didn't they retire the band name after Carl passed away and let Mike tour on his own merits under his own name.
Yes, GF, there it is again in it's old worn out tire likeness further illustrating that myKe was an NCOTBB (No chance outside the Beach Boys).
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