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Author Topic: In The Back of My Mind 1975  (Read 1981 times)
SMiLE Brian
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« on: January 06, 2018, 02:37:59 PM »

Still amazing and would sound great on 15 Big Ones.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji-ZOmA0tsY
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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2018, 03:39:42 PM »

Some people don't like his vocal here, but I think it's great crossover of his old voice and 15 Big Ones voice.  The album would have been much improved if Sea Cruise and In The Back of My Mind were swapped in for two of the lesser songs.
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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2018, 04:25:11 PM »

I honestly don't think I'd be sad about Brian's voice changing if it stayed something like that. Doesn't sound anything like any other vocal he ever did and it's one of his best.
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2018, 07:22:19 PM »

I love his tone and would've like to hear more from this era
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2018, 07:58:48 PM »


Totally captivating to hear the changes in his voice but at the same time so difficult to say goodbye to "the voice" that originally pulled us all in as fans. Even today, as he ages, there is still that magic he manages to somehow deliver the goods and for me makes him one of the greatest singers of all time. No one could do things with his voice better than Brian Wilson. 
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2018, 06:24:25 AM »

I always end NPP with "Saturday Night" (I'm sorry but I just cannot warm to "The Last Song") so "L&M" and "ITBOMM" get the chop too. 

I really don't feel ITBOMM '75 belongs on an album of stuff featuring younger artists (one assumes to relate to a younger audience), even as a bonus track. An album of outtakes etc for the hardcore fan would have been a much more fitting place. Just my jaded opinion.
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2018, 07:07:38 AM »

I really like the "new" section, and overall key/tone it takes. It reminds me of a Frank Sinatra style.
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2018, 07:54:16 AM »

I always end NPP with "Saturday Night" (I'm sorry but I just cannot warm to "The Last Song") so "L&M" and "ITBOMM" get the chop too. 

I really don't feel ITBOMM '75 belongs on an album of stuff featuring younger artists (one assumes to relate to a younger audience), even as a bonus track. An album of outtakes etc for the hardcore fan would have been a much more fitting place. Just my jaded opinion.

Im ok with it as a bonus track, but Ive only made it through ITBOMM once.  Once I hear those 33 year old Brian Wilson vocals, I cant help but think "that's just a damn shame." 
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2018, 12:48:18 PM »

I love this demo and I'm so thankful to have it, but his younger voice was already gone. This is much more '15 Big Ones/Love You' than anything that came before. The falsetto is a clear give away. Really, and I know our sample size is incredibly small, it's possible that his voice deteriorated more in the time between the 1974 California Feelin' demo and the 1975 In The Back Of My Mind demo than in any other year. But, the California Feelin' demo was a revelation for me. It's sad that for all those years ('69, '70, '71, '72, '73, '74) Brian still had (for the most part) that voice, but very, very rarely shared it with his fans. And it's more the reason why that makes it sad, than us having less lead vocals to enjoy.
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2018, 02:11:42 PM »

He was already sounding rougher by 1972. His vocals  on So Tough were hoarse (or could have intentionally trying to sound like that...) and the intro on California off Holland, well...he mostly had his old tone but it sounded different somehow...actually kind of sounded like he was "pushing" the notes out (his so-called "shouty voice")
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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2018, 02:22:29 PM »

It is mind blowing to me the transformation his voice made...just 9 years prior hes singing some of the most beautiful notes ever to grace rock/pop on Pet Sounds. I recently listened to this and couldnt help but think how similar his tone/vocals on 75 ITBOMM sound to his solo career vocals (in terms of how deep his voice got)...though his solo vocals (especially Disney and Gershwin) are really really good.
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2018, 02:28:27 PM »

He was already sounding rougher by 1972. His vocals  on So Tough were hoarse (or could have intentionally trying to sound like that...) and the intro on California off Holland, well...he mostly had his old tone but it sounded different somehow...actually kind of sounded like he was "pushing" the notes out (his so-called "shouty voice")

In my opinion, it wasn't so much his voice as his singing style. I think his voice was still capable of sounding like it did in the 60s (both full voice and falsetto), but for any number of reasons it didn't find its way onto the records at the time. Don't get me wrong, his voice was aging, but I believe his voice was still there as late as '74. I just don't think he attempted to access it, basically. Even on Surfin' USA, Brian's falsetto was quite harsh in spots. It's not something effortlessly achieved, not even by Brian. If he dedicated himself to singing quality leads and/or replicating his younger voice, I think he could have, but by In The Still Of The Night his falsetto had changed.
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2018, 06:30:07 PM »

I really like the "new" section, and overall key/tone it takes. It reminds me of a Frank Sinatra style.

This this would have totally fit in with the big band numbers on Adult Child.  Maybe start it as solo piano and voice and then have the big band come in. 
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2018, 09:45:57 PM »

He was already sounding rougher by 1972. His vocals  on So Tough were hoarse (or could have intentionally trying to sound like that...) and the intro on California off Holland, well...he mostly had his old tone but it sounded different somehow...actually kind of sounded like he was "pushing" the notes out (his so-called "shouty voice")

In my opinion, it wasn't so much his voice as his singing style. I think his voice was still capable of sounding like it did in the 60s (both full voice and falsetto), but for any number of reasons it didn't find its way onto the records at the time. Don't get me wrong, his voice was aging, but I believe his voice was still there as late as '74. I just don't think he attempted to access it, basically. Even on Surfin' USA, Brian's falsetto was quite harsh in spots. It's not something effortlessly achieved, not even by Brian. If he dedicated himself to singing quality leads and/or replicating his younger voice, I think he could have, but by In The Still Of The Night his falsetto had changed.


I agree. The effort seemed lost. Not saying his voice was still in 60's level form (there must have been some damage by 72) but his "soul" or motive for trying to hit the notes was gone....or obscured by the drugs and his mental state of mind. 

I do wonder when the tipping point was. When did he (a) do enough damage (smoking and coke) and or (b) when did he say f*** it (internally) and stop trying?  Was there some tipping point in 1974 where he gorged on coke and cigs, really threw in the towel, and if so what might have triggered that? Or, was it just a gradual progression? Wish we knew more from 1974 and 75.
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♩♬☮ Billy C ♯♫♩☮
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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2018, 11:32:18 PM »

His tone was different for many reasons...he'd already been trying the "rough" voice as early as late 71 but that was affecting his  voice itself ...the big change happened as a result of heavy smoking and cocaine use, laryngitis  (apparently while the smoking and snorting kept going on, but not 100% on that), and muscle memory changes due to the above reasons and intentionally taking on a so-called shouty vocal style. His voice sounded better on MIU for several reasons, but letting his voice rest for a bit was huge.

As an aside...after I had a stroke last August,  I basically had to relearn how to sing. My vocals sound completely different then they did beforehand.  Actually,  they sound better and it's as if I have a much wider range. Why? Read this article, as it not only explains what happened to me, it may also explain partly what changed with Brian's voice
http://discovermagazine.com/2014/julyaug/11-singing-in-the-brain
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 11:36:02 PM by ♩♬☮ Billy C ♯♫♩☮ » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2018, 03:15:34 AM »

I am sorry to read about that, but it is inspirational how you came back better.

That may also answer a question I was going to post about Brian's use of a vocal coach. I was always confused as to why the same guy that set the world on fire with tremendously orchestrated multi-part harmonies as well as some soul-wrenching solo vocals would need any guidance whatsoever. He clearly knew how to sing.
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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2018, 10:01:23 AM »

He was already sounding rougher by 1972. His vocals  on So Tough were hoarse (or could have intentionally trying to sound like that...) and the intro on California off Holland, well...he mostly had his old tone but it sounded different somehow...actually kind of sounded like he was "pushing" the notes out (his so-called "shouty voice")

In my opinion, it wasn't so much his voice as his singing style. I think his voice was still capable of sounding like it did in the 60s (both full voice and falsetto), but for any number of reasons it didn't find its way onto the records at the time. Don't get me wrong, his voice was aging, but I believe his voice was still there as late as '74. I just don't think he attempted to access it, basically. Even on Surfin' USA, Brian's falsetto was quite harsh in spots. It's not something effortlessly achieved, not even by Brian. If he dedicated himself to singing quality leads and/or replicating his younger voice, I think he could have, but by In The Still Of The Night his falsetto had changed.


I agree. The effort seemed lost. Not saying his voice was still in 60's level form (there must have been some damage by 72) but his "soul" or motive for trying to hit the notes was gone....or obscured by the drugs and his mental state of mind.  

I do wonder when the tipping point was. When did he (a) do enough damage (smoking and coke) and or (b) when did he say f*** it (internally) and stop trying?  Was there some tipping point in 1974 where he gorged on coke and cigs, really threw in the towel, and if so what might have triggered that? Or, was it just a gradual progression? Wish we knew more from 1974 and 75.

His tone was different for many reasons...he'd already been trying the "rough" voice as early as late 71 but that was affecting his  voice itself ...the big change happened as a result of heavy smoking and cocaine use, laryngitis  (apparently while the smoking and snorting kept going on, but not 100% on that), and muscle memory changes due to the above reasons and intentionally taking on a so-called shouty vocal style. His voice sounded better on MIU for several reasons, but letting his voice rest for a bit was huge.

As an aside...after I had a stroke last August,  I basically had to relearn how to sing. My vocals sound completely different then they did beforehand.  Actually,  they sound better and it's as if I have a much wider range. Why? Read this article, as it not only explains what happened to me, it may also explain partly what changed with Brian's voice
http://discovermagazine.com/2014/julyaug/11-singing-in-the-brain

I agree with all the factors Billy mentioned. The only other one that I'd add is weight gain/loss. I'm fairly certain Brian gained a lot of weight in 1975, in particular. I think it's evident in the '75 demo. Conversely, he had lost a lot of it by MIU. I don't think that's a major factor, but worth mentioning. To clarify my thoughts a little in regard to jmc's questions a) I believe there was a tipping point around 1975 where Brian's voice permanently changed. It's impossible to know how much weight to assign to the various factors (it's entirely possible that natural deepening/aging of the voice was the strongest factor permanently affecting his falsetto), but whatever happened, that was, at least, the first tipping point. I think the continued drug use into the late 70s and 80s (in particular the drugs Landy gave Brian) further damaged his voice to an extent, but more than that, his singing ability (as well as, possibly having a stroke, and any other health problems that Landy's mistreatment caused). As for b) it's clear that Brian had always been insecure about his high voice and tried to adopt a more 'manly' vocal style. Combine that with the physical factors (especially, possibly, having laryngitis in '76 -he appeared to have it again in an interview in May of '78) and that goes a long way in explaining what we hear on 15 Big Ones and Love You. As for internally saying "f*ck it" in regard to his vocal style or recording at all, I think a part of that is Brian's high standards and fear of failure. His sensitivity and mental outlook was such that, at the height of his success, he was hurt if a record didn't go number #1. Or if he didn't feel like he had everyone's 100% support. I do think (among other things, sure) that it can be easier not to try, than to try and fail. He obviously got to the point that if it had anything to do with the Beach Boys then he wasn't interested. Right or wrong, when Brian lost/gave up complete control of the band he seemingly lost interest (gradually). He was hurt. He was more comfortable entertaining outside projects, but even then he wasn't all in. Obviously, those are just two thoughts on the matter and most likely a small part of larger issues, but ultimately, yes, I do think there was an overall gradual progression involved (though in regard to '74/75 - Murry passed away in June of '73).
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 10:13:14 AM by B.E. » Logged
SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2018, 11:35:31 AM »

BW strangely sounds gruff on "sweet mountain" for spring....
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And production aside, Id so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
♩♬☮ Billy C ♯♫♩☮
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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2018, 01:02:38 PM »

BW strangely sounds gruff on "sweet mountain" for spring....
  He does. Between that and his vocals on So Tough, you can hear the change clearly happening
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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2018, 01:34:26 PM »

His tone was different for many reasons...he'd already been trying the "rough" voice as early as late 71 but that was affecting his  voice itself ...the big change happened as a result of heavy smoking and cocaine use, laryngitis  (apparently while the smoking and snorting kept going on, but not 100% on that), and muscle memory changes due to the above reasons and intentionally taking on a so-called shouty vocal style. His voice sounded better on MIU for several reasons, but letting his voice rest for a bit was huge.

As an aside...after I had a stroke last August,  I basically had to relearn how to sing. My vocals sound completely different then they did beforehand.  Actually,  they sound better and it's as if I have a much wider range. Why? Read this article, as it not only explains what happened to me, it may also explain partly what changed with Brian's voice
http://discovermagazine.com/2014/julyaug/11-singing-in-the-brain

Oh Billy, I somehow missed this!  So sorry.  I had a neighbor in LA who had his own very successful variety show in Japan (Japanese American who was fluent in both languages - damn, his first name was Jerry - wish I could remember the last name - had Andy Williams on and more) he came back to LA for the medical care after his stroke, so he lived in my apt. bldg.  He could still sing the notes, but couldn't remember any of the lyrics.  He worked so hard and was able to perform again. Sorry what you also have had to go through.

Re: Brian's voice, I remember one evening when he was laid back singing in what I would describe as a "Vic Damone" voice during the 70's (like I said, no journal, so only memories, no accurate dates).  He was note-perfect, of course and hilarious at the same time he did it well.  He could also still hit those high notes.  He just didn't seem to want to very often.

I'm pretty certain, at age 75, that those high notes are out of reach.  We have the recordings and Matt live.  As I keep repeating, how many of us feel or look like we did in our 20's?  It's life.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 01:36:07 PM by Debbie KL » Logged
♩♬☮ Billy C ♯♫♩☮
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2018, 03:16:17 PM »

Quote
Re: Brian's voice, I remember one evening when he was laid back singing in what I would describe as a "Vic Damone" voice during the 70's (like I said, no journal, so only memories, no accurate dates).  He was note-perfect, of course and hilarious at the same time he did it well. 

That sounds awesome...I can actually visualize him in my head doing that!
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