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624992 Posts in 25120 Topics by 3568 Members - Latest Member: brianwilson69 January 17, 2018, 02:06:32 PM
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Author Topic: Still Cruisin and SIP should be in the core catalogue.  (Read 3110 times)
SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #75 on: January 05, 2018, 01:39:09 PM »

That these two albums aren't even available for streaming speaks volumes .....

Really? Cause there's a lot of excellent material by other bands (Wondermints comes most immediately to mind) that also isn't available for streaming. And the fact that Love You is available for streaming tells me it ain't about quality.

All good points, however it's possible for material by bands to be missing from streaming services for a variety of reasons, including that some bands aren't eager to remind the public of their lowest points. Look at Mike's facial expression when Brian mentions "Looking Back with Love" in the campfire sessions 1989 video; it's definite embarrassment for him and he doesn't want the album to be mentioned. I don't think SMiLE Brian's theory is super off base, especially in the case of SIP. And I say that as somebody who can kinda dig about an EP's worth of tracks from both SIP and SC.
I think the songs available on GH albums and box sets are enough from this era.
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And production aside, Iíd so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #76 on: January 05, 2018, 07:49:39 PM »

When I first got into The Beach Boys and started getting on these forums, I heard so many great things about Friends, Sunflower, Surf's Up, Holland, and Love You.   And I couldn't wait to listen to them.  I fell in love with Friends, Sunflower, Surfs Up, and Holland, but not Love You.   I tried listening to it a few times, but still nothing.  

Same. Although I will say that when I list the attributes I love about the band and their music, most of them apply to the early 60's thru about Smiley Smile. I do love the Friends-Holland material, but it's different since overall that material lacks the majority of those core attributes. When I introduce new people (like my high school students) to the Beach Boys, I don't bother with anything post Smiley Smile.

For the record, I have tried dozens of times over the last 5 years or so to "get" Love you. No luck so far.

Also for the record, I've never heard SIP because a) I have little use for-- and no capability to play-- physical media, and b) it's so hated here that I just haven't bothered.  Would I buy it if it were available digitally? Of course. Which is why I'm so baffled that stuff like SIP and SC are not available.

Ive tried many times with Love You also.  But, Ive given up.  Theres too much other music that I like that I dont have a chance to listen to as much as I used to. 
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« Reply #77 on: January 05, 2018, 08:28:30 PM »

Give me Still Cruisin over Love You any day.

I thought I was the only one. 
Me, three. Can't stand the bad vocals and synths all over Love You.
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« Reply #78 on: January 06, 2018, 02:31:12 PM »

What makes a good BB album, never mind a real BB album?

Let's go back to 1962 and the first Capitol album. Sure, it has its place in history, and it is 100% a BB album. But let's be honest here, it has three outstanding tracks and a lot of filler. That's how albums were made in those days, especially debuts. I am a hardcore fan and love the early days, but truth to tell, I have played Still Cruisin' and SiP more than that first album. Simply because they are better albums.

And I am the only person I know that likes the Fat Boys collaboration. Whoever else bought the single and helped it chart at #12 on Billboard, well, they have to step forward. I know I am not alone here...  Cool
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« Reply #79 on: January 06, 2018, 03:50:11 PM »

I never thought it made much sense to not include SC and SiP in the catalogue.  The songs are easy enough to search on youtube and there are plenty of used copies for sale.  They're literally costing themselves money by not having these albums available for purchase or streaming.  People who hate them are still going to hate them, but people who want to listen to one or all of the songs are forced to buy the used copies or use youtube to listen or download.  It's not like they would have to put together a big advertising campaign for the release, they could just show up like the most recent copyright release did.   
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« Reply #80 on: January 06, 2018, 08:36:13 PM »


And I am the only person I know that likes the Fat Boys collaboration. Whoever else bought the single and helped it chart at #12 on Billboard, well, they have to step forward. I know I am not alone here...  Cool

Nope, I like it too, and am not afraid to say so. 
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« Reply #81 on: January 07, 2018, 12:12:48 AM »

The thing is that there are so many actual good Beach Boys albums that donít really sell much and go in and out of print after a few years that I can understand why thereís little interest by Capitol in reissuing arguably the bandís worst albums.  A digital release, maybe (I know Stars and Stripes quietly appeared on streaming services a while back after having been long out of print) but I canít see any sort of vinyl or CD reissues of those albums anytime soon.

Though if they reissued Still Cruisiní, it should be more substantial than the poorly compiled cash grab that the 1989 release was.  Maybe it could look something like this.

The first seven songs from the original album, then...
8. Chasin' the Sky
9. East Meets West
10. The Air That I Breathe (with Julio Iglesias)
11. Rock & Roll to the Rescue
12. California Dreamin'
13. Lady Liberty
14. Happy Endings
15. Living Doll
16. Don't Worry Baby (with the Everly Brothers)
17. Problem Child
18. Crocodile Rock
19. Kokomo (Spanish Version)

That way, all of the mid 80s to early 90s Beach Boys studio releases (that weren't on the '85 album) are collected on one disc.

And Summer in Paradise might be of interest if they included the UK mixes as bonus tracks.
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« Reply #82 on: January 07, 2018, 12:40:17 AM »

Neither record is even half as good as anything the group put out between '63 and '77. Still Cruisin' is OK for what it is. I kind of like Terry Melcher's production approach where everyone gets to sing a line in pretty much every verse. It's sort of cheesy but it works. SIP, except for Lahaina Aloha and maybe one or two other songs, is complete garbage and I don't care whether or not it ever gets reissued.
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« Reply #83 on: January 07, 2018, 06:04:51 AM »

What makes a good BB album, never mind a real BB album?

Let's go back to 1962 and the first Capitol album. Sure, it has its place in history, and it is 100% a BB album. But let's be honest here, it has three outstanding tracks and a lot of filler. That's how albums were made in those days, especially debuts. I am a hardcore fan and love the early days, but truth to tell, I have played Still Cruisin' and SiP more than that first album. Simply because they are better albums.

And I am the only person I know that likes the Fat Boys collaboration. Whoever else bought the single and helped it chart at #12 on Billboard, well, they have to step forward. I know I am not alone here...  Cool

Re: SIP being a better album than The Beach Boys debut: Iíll take the realism of Surfin Safari any day over the completely artificial sound of SIP. And production aside, Iíd so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.

What makes a good beach boys album? How about an album with all of the actual band playing on the album. Or an album that actually charts (#32). With Surfin Safari youíre listening to literal kids accomplish something that almost no other kids got to do: play on a rock n roll album for a major record company. Itís so much more than history too - itís the realism of an actual band getting their foot planted in a new world of music...you can hear the inexperience, Brian is tapping a snare drum with his finger in one song! But itís real, not a drum machine, not glossy production. SIP is half a band attempting to milk the sound of a hit song by making a half baked effort at songwriting and recording without half of the original members (including Brian Wilson).

I get that a couple people somehow actually like SIP, but calling it better than an actual original Beach Boys album? Thatís a huge stretch.
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« Reply #84 on: January 07, 2018, 06:07:40 AM »

Agreed so much I added a quote to my profile... Grin
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« Reply #85 on: January 07, 2018, 09:52:03 AM »

Agreed so much I added a quote to my profile... Grin
Undoubtably one of the best quotes ever! It only needs to be "wootilized".  w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t! w00t!
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« Reply #86 on: January 07, 2018, 01:43:23 PM »


Re: SIP being a better album than The Beach Boys debut: Iíll take the realism of Surfin Safari any day over the completely artificial sound of SIP. And production aside, Iíd so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.

What makes a good beach boys album? How about an album with all of the actual band playing on the album. Or an album that actually charts (#32). With Surfin Safari youíre listening to literal kids accomplish something that almost no other kids got to do: play on a rock n roll album for a major record company. Itís so much more than history too - itís the realism of an actual band getting their foot planted in a new world of music...you can hear the inexperience, Brian is tapping a snare drum with his finger in one song! But itís real, not a drum machine, not glossy production. SIP is half a band attempting to milk the sound of a hit song by making a half baked effort at songwriting and recording without half of the original members (including Brian Wilson).

I get that a couple people somehow actually like SIP, but calling it better than an actual original Beach Boys album? Thatís a huge stretch.

You argue your case well, and I understand where you are coming from. Obviously, the three good/outstanding hits on SS are better than anything on SiP. But my point is that's all you get on SS. The filler may be fun, if you are into history and tracing the evolution of the band, but once you are over that, there's little to encourage repeat listens. I am not a big fan of SiP. I sold the USA version back then, because I couldn't stand the brash drum sounds. Then years later, I got the UK edition second hand, a slight improvement, at least enough for me to keep it. Consider this, every track on SiP is at least listenable. I personally feel it's a better deal to get 12 passable tracks than three good ones and nine fillers. That's just me. Song for song, there's more on offer on SiP. Better batting average.
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« Reply #87 on: January 07, 2018, 02:25:52 PM »


Re: SIP being a better album than The Beach Boys debut: Iíll take the realism of Surfin Safari any day over the completely artificial sound of SIP. And production aside, Iíd so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.

What makes a good beach boys album? How about an album with all of the actual band playing on the album. Or an album that actually charts (#32). With Surfin Safari youíre listening to literal kids accomplish something that almost no other kids got to do: play on a rock n roll album for a major record company. Itís so much more than history too - itís the realism of an actual band getting their foot planted in a new world of music...you can hear the inexperience, Brian is tapping a snare drum with his finger in one song! But itís real, not a drum machine, not glossy production. SIP is half a band attempting to milk the sound of a hit song by making a half baked effort at songwriting and recording without half of the original members (including Brian Wilson).

I get that a couple people somehow actually like SIP, but calling it better than an actual original Beach Boys album? Thatís a huge stretch.

You argue your case well, and I understand where you are coming from. Obviously, the three good/outstanding hits on SS are better than anything on SiP. But my point is that's all you get on SS. The filler may be fun, if you are into history and tracing the evolution of the band, but once you are over that, there's little to encourage repeat listens. I am not a big fan of SiP. I sold the USA version back then, because I couldn't stand the brash drum sounds. Then years later, I got the UK edition second hand, a slight improvement, at least enough for me to keep it. Consider this, every track on SiP is at least listenable. I personally feel it's a better deal to get 12 passable tracks than three good ones and nine fillers. That's just me. Song for song, there's more on offer on SiP. Better batting average.

I mean, the opinion that there is more encouragement for repeated listens on SIP is based off your own musical tastes. Keeping personal taste out of it, Iíd say based on the chart number for SS (and that SIP didnít even chart), the fact that SIP isnít even sold anymore (nor does it look like it will be sold) says that the average consumer (and the minds at Capitol) finds less actual content on SIP than on SS...which is why the latter is still sold.
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« Reply #88 on: January 07, 2018, 03:39:11 PM »

In response to the original post:

Summer In Paradise (especially) and Still Cruisin (to a slightly lesser extent) are pretty much universally despised, however, for the sake of history, I think they should be included in the band's official catalogue. To have the gap from BB85 to TWGMTR (aside from singles) is a very inaccurate way to display the band's productivity from 1985 to 2012. Two studio albums is a lot of work, even if most of the heavy lifting was by Mike and Terry Melcher.

I'm not even a huge fan of either of these records, so maybe its the OCD completest in me.

I think it's ridiculous (too harsh?) that in 2018 a major act such as the Beach Boys don't have every studio album available digitally. If there's insufficient demand for a physical reissue, so be it.
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« Reply #89 on: January 08, 2018, 01:41:04 AM »


I mean, the opinion that there is more encouragement for repeated listens on SIP is based off your own musical tastes. Keeping personal taste out of it, Iíd say based on the chart number for SS (and that SIP didnít even chart), the fact that SIP isnít even sold anymore (nor does it look like it will be sold) says that the average consumer (and the minds at Capitol) finds less actual content on SIP than on SS...which is why the latter is still sold.

I like chart trivia as much as anyone, but I wouldn't let that inform or dictate my taste. I doubt you do that, either. You use chart performance as an argument. But how then, do you account for the much maligned "Kokomo" being their final #1?  I like "Kokomo", but I wouldn't use its chart-topping status as proof of its quality. What it comes down to is personal taste. You like the debut over SiP, fine. But take out the brash production on SiP, and you are left with some pretty solid tunes. There are three tunes on SS as opposed to twelve on SiP.
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« Reply #90 on: January 08, 2018, 04:26:09 AM »

There are no tunes on SIP..... Evil
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« Reply #91 on: January 08, 2018, 05:13:36 AM »


I mean, the opinion that there is more encouragement for repeated listens on SIP is based off your own musical tastes. Keeping personal taste out of it, Iíd say based on the chart number for SS (and that SIP didnít even chart), the fact that SIP isnít even sold anymore (nor does it look like it will be sold) says that the average consumer (and the minds at Capitol) finds less actual content on SIP than on SS...which is why the latter is still sold.

I like chart trivia as much as anyone, but I wouldn't let that inform or dictate my taste. I doubt you do that, either. You use chart performance as an argument. But how then, do you account for the much maligned "Kokomo" being their final #1?  I like "Kokomo", but I wouldn't use its chart-topping status as proof of its quality. What it comes down to is personal taste. You like the debut over SiP, fine. But take out the brash production on SiP, and you are left with some pretty solid tunes. There are three tunes on SS as opposed to twelve on SiP.

Iím not letting chart placement dictate my taste - Iím saying that your average consumer (based off of the chart positions, based off current demand) doesnít at all think that SIP deserves repeated listens. My responses to you have been made with your two initial questions in mind: what makes a good Beach Boys album/what makes a real Beach Boys album.

I didnít think it fair to answer those two questions solely based on personal taste. Do I like Kokomo a lot? Not a lot, but one canít deny its popularity, the role it had in pop culture at the time, and its continued popularity (being the most popular Beach Boys song in iTunes, etc)...with that in mind its a ďgoodĒ Beach Boys record. I think Iíve listened to Surfin Safari a total of one time through, heck Iíve probably listened to SIP more than Iíve listened to SS (Iím not even kidding). But based on chart placement, based on the effect the album (its core songs) had on popular culture, given that all the original members (including Al) played on the album, given that no one wants to reissue SIP (or that the record company wonít give it the green light), given that SIP had zero effect on popular culture - given all that Iíd say that SS is the better/more real Beach Boys album.

Hereís why I donít base my answers to your questions on personal taste: I find more enjoyment in Love You than I do Surfin Safari (and personally think LY is a far better album), but I also realize the significance and popularity that SS holds over LY. I think the songwriting on LY blows anything on Surfin Safari out of the water...but give your average consumer the choice over the two and theyíll pick Surfin Safari almost every time.

If this is a discussion about personal taste, and not unbiased answers to your initial questions, then I will kindly bow out and say Iím happy you find enjoyment in the more obscure corners of The Beach Boys catalogue...I do as well and personally find some of their more obscure music far more enjoyable than some of their popular music.
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« Reply #92 on: January 08, 2018, 08:02:30 AM »


I mean, the opinion that there is more encouragement for repeated listens on SIP is based off your own musical tastes. Keeping personal taste out of it, Iíd say based on the chart number for SS (and that SIP didnít even chart), the fact that SIP isnít even sold anymore (nor does it look like it will be sold) says that the average consumer (and the minds at Capitol) finds less actual content on SIP than on SS...which is why the latter is still sold.

I like chart trivia as much as anyone, but I wouldn't let that inform or dictate my taste. I doubt you do that, either. You use chart performance as an argument. But how then, do you account for the much maligned "Kokomo" being their final #1?  I like "Kokomo", but I wouldn't use its chart-topping status as proof of its quality. What it comes down to is personal taste. You like the debut over SiP, fine. But take out the brash production on SiP, and you are left with some pretty solid tunes. There are three tunes on SS as opposed to twelve on SiP.

Whats the third tune on Smiley?  Ive got two, and they were already released as singles, and their presence on most BB comps renders SS almost unnecessary in terms of listening. 
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« Reply #93 on: January 08, 2018, 08:04:42 AM »


I mean, the opinion that there is more encouragement for repeated listens on SIP is based off your own musical tastes. Keeping personal taste out of it, Iíd say based on the chart number for SS (and that SIP didnít even chart), the fact that SIP isnít even sold anymore (nor does it look like it will be sold) says that the average consumer (and the minds at Capitol) finds less actual content on SIP than on SS...which is why the latter is still sold.

I like chart trivia as much as anyone, but I wouldn't let that inform or dictate my taste. I doubt you do that, either. You use chart performance as an argument. But how then, do you account for the much maligned "Kokomo" being their final #1?  I like "Kokomo", but I wouldn't use its chart-topping status as proof of its quality. What it comes down to is personal taste. You like the debut over SiP, fine. But take out the brash production on SiP, and you are left with some pretty solid tunes. There are three tunes on SS as opposed to twelve on SiP.

Whats the third tune on Smiley?  Ive got two, and they were already released as singles, and their presence on most BB comps renders SS almost unnecessary in terms of listening. 

SS = Surfin Safari in this case. I did a double take as well haha.
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« Reply #94 on: January 08, 2018, 08:15:06 AM »


I mean, the opinion that there is more encouragement for repeated listens on SIP is based off your own musical tastes. Keeping personal taste out of it, Iíd say based on the chart number for SS (and that SIP didnít even chart), the fact that SIP isnít even sold anymore (nor does it look like it will be sold) says that the average consumer (and the minds at Capitol) finds less actual content on SIP than on SS...which is why the latter is still sold.

I like chart trivia as much as anyone, but I wouldn't let that inform or dictate my taste. I doubt you do that, either. You use chart performance as an argument. But how then, do you account for the much maligned "Kokomo" being their final #1?  I like "Kokomo", but I wouldn't use its chart-topping status as proof of its quality. What it comes down to is personal taste. You like the debut over SiP, fine. But take out the brash production on SiP, and you are left with some pretty solid tunes. There are three tunes on SS as opposed to twelve on SiP.

Whats the third tune on Smiley?  Ive got two, and they were already released as singles, and their presence on most BB comps renders SS almost unnecessary in terms of listening. 

SS = Surfin Safari in this case. I did a double take as well haha.

Ooooohhh.  Oops. 
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« Reply #95 on: January 08, 2018, 08:47:09 AM »

This thing has clearly splintered into multiple contentions. The quality of SC and SIP is debatable.

But it's not debatable that even crummy albums are part of the canon. They already exist, and they always will. Getting those two particular albums back in print is not something that's at the top of my list of priorities, but I certainly don't see anything wrong with *everything* being in print. "Looking Back With Love", "Going Public", whatever. The sucky stuff should be available to study as well.
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« Reply #96 on: January 08, 2018, 08:58:22 AM »

This thing has clearly splintered into multiple contentions. The quality of SC and SIP is debatable.

But it's not debatable that even crummy albums are part of the canon. They already exist, and they always will. Getting those two particular albums back in print is not something that's at the top of my list of priorities, but I certainly don't see anything wrong with *everything* being in print. "Looking Back With Love", "Going Public", whatever. The sucky stuff should be available to study as well.

Even if its not in print with a tangible copy, one would think it would be available digitally. 

Same goes for Mike's solo albums. 
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« Reply #97 on: January 08, 2018, 09:07:23 AM »

This thing has clearly splintered into multiple contentions. The quality of SC and SIP is debatable.

But it's not debatable that even crummy albums are part of the canon. They already exist, and they always will. Getting those two particular albums back in print is not something that's at the top of my list of priorities, but I certainly don't see anything wrong with *everything* being in print. "Looking Back With Love", "Going Public", whatever. The sucky stuff should be available to study as well.

Even if its not in print with a tangible copy, one would think it would be available digitally. 

Same goes for Mike's solo albums. 

And Alís solo album...sucks itís not available on Apple Music (I bought it digitally when it came out but would like for it to be easily available in the AM library).

Anywho, thereís so much that could be released digitally itís baffling that they donít do it...Like thereís no reason why Still Cruisin shouldnít be available anymore.
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« Reply #98 on: January 08, 2018, 09:20:06 AM »

This thing has clearly splintered into multiple contentions. The quality of SC and SIP is debatable.

But it's not debatable that even crummy albums are part of the canon. They already exist, and they always will. Getting those two particular albums back in print is not something that's at the top of my list of priorities, but I certainly don't see anything wrong with *everything* being in print. "Looking Back With Love", "Going Public", whatever. The sucky stuff should be available to study as well.

Even if its not in print with a tangible copy, one would think it would be available digitally. 

Same goes for Mike's solo albums. 

And Alís solo album...sucks itís not available on Apple Music (I bought it digitally when it came out but would like for it to be easily available in the AM library).

Anywho, thereís so much that could be released digitally itís baffling that they donít do it...Like thereís no reason why Still Cruisin shouldnít be available anymore.

True. 

Though at least Al's albums are available on CD (though Ive seen to live one as high as $40).
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« Reply #99 on: January 08, 2018, 12:25:35 PM »

Interestingly (sorry if already mention) the rather decent 'The Beach Boys Americas Band' book by Johnny Morgan from 2015 certainly includes the 2 said albums into the core discography
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