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Author Topic: Who was the most spiritual of the Beach Boys?  (Read 14621 times)
The LEGENDARY OSD
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« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2017, 08:15:26 PM »

I think Brian is a guy who, in his inspired musical moments, has reached towards the heavens, sometimes he's gotten there, other times he has come very close. But he also has an agitated side to him - agitation, I am guessing, born out of the inability to sustain those occasional heavenly moments.

There is a very potent element to this notion. Maybe it is as much a pressure to repeat those moments as it is an inability to sustain them, as in having the burden of expectation and anticipation that such "divine inspiration" to use a heavy term can just be called on demand and applied to whatever is the next project being undertaken. It's a burden which a lot of musical artists have fallen victim to and which has led to some devastating results when the pursuit of such inspiration combined with the pressure to replicate them as if they're ordering fast food from a menu becomes a hurdle that cannot be leapt over.

Brian is the guy who - 40 years after the fact - said to the effect of "how do you top Good Vibrations? You don't." Yet look at how many wanted him and expected him to do just that. Even in that 1976 TV special, McCartney is there at Brian's birthday celebration saying "Brian, when are you going to give us another Pet Sounds?"...then in the mid-90's you had a label asking for Pet Sounds part 2...and the whole nature of divine inspiration (or just everyday run-of-the-mill sparks of creative juice and inspiration) is that you can try methods to facilitate it, but the very nature of inspiration is random and filled with chance. You cannot order it off a menu.

And sometimes that inspiration creates something so personal, so unique, and so definitive and strong that being asked to replicate it on demand can be taken as an insult, and the expectations that such inspiring works will flow in succession can cause that agitation that can lead to either a radical shift in scope and design (as with Smiley Smile and Wild Honey, perhaps?) or a complete creative shut-down as has happened with any number of artists, authors, musicians, and the like.

This may be one reason why for me as a fan, I would selfishly love to see something else presented around "Smile", but when BWPS did come out it was done at exactly the right moment with the right people and it had the effect which was enough to say Ok, it's been done, let's move on to something else...and not try to recreate what was a truly unique experience in time.

Trying to recreate divine inspiration is a fool's errand, and expecting someone to recreate it is as destructive as it is naive.

And keep in mind this is the same Brian Wilson who has often said "Music is God's voice" and who considers music and the creation of music as a spiritual element and experience. The highest forms of that inspiration cannot be recreated on demand.

Good thread, in that it's impossible to answer - but I love the comment about attempting to create and recreate those magical/spiritual moments - and they are just moments that come when they do.

Brian one time tried to impress on me how much the "sense of longing" was important to his music.  Like everything else, I sort of got it, and get more of it at different times, and clearly Dennis knew it immediately, as noted in a post above.

Another moment was not long after Carl died (like GF in some of his previous posts, I probably noted this before somewhere), I mentioned that Carl was his "Angel Voice."  Brian's face lit up and he said, "yes, YES!"  Yeah, I hate when people try to paint Carl as a saint.  He was far too funny - but he gave spirituality quite a voice.

Al seems to really have gotten the connection to the earth and sky, and has remained a good man, connected to that energy, maintaining and voicing it.

Mike, I think, is doing the best he can with the Buddy/Murry heritage and temperament.  I applaud the fact that he tries, until $$ are involved.  I hope he can get past that in this lifetime, since he seems to believe in reincarnation.  Then he could be amazing in a future life.

Brian spoke so often in metaphors that I think he spends as much time as possible examining all aspects of spirituality and creativity.  Some things he said didn't give me that "aha" moment until decades later when it was in my face.  I'm not alone in that experience of him.

And let's not forget that doctors did a study in the late 2000's regarding what music actually healed people, including all genres.  "Whistle In" was the most effective.  Brian wrote it, all of them sang it, so...

Today?  Brian will enjoy his life and who he is (as he should) and if inspiration hits again, we'll hear it.

I once mentioned to a brilliant writer, after I'd studied many cultures, that Brian would have been a shaman in many of them: the psychological break/crisis, the creative brilliance and the healing ability.  He actually liked the idea before he was sidetracked by an overwhelming job.

If anyone can tell me what spirituality is, I'd appreciate the answer.  I think it's different for all of us.  We get different aspects of it at different times.  

Each guy was a part of the whole that is America's Band.  It's the creative version and the perfect reflection of the US in the late 20th/early 21st century, in all of it's contexts - the amazing, generous heights and the disturbing lows.  I'd throw in a little Marvin Gaye while I was at it, though, along with James Brown and Tina Turner.

Deb, the "Today" line about Brian hit me hard as did the inspired post as a whole. A beautiful look at the band indeed.
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« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2017, 09:14:18 PM »

It strikes me too whenever there are comments made about how Brian Wilson handles interviews, or interviewers - There has been so much already said about what makes him tick, and so much of that is the notion that he speaks through the music he makes. That's what he's communicating to his fans who are willing to listen. If there is something he has wanted to say or convey, there are so many instances of him saying it through the music, and we can all hear it loud and clear if we listen. It does surprise me sometimes to read the reactions to some random interview with BW where he gave short answers or whatever the other gripes may be, especially when you consider where he's coming from. He communicates through music, maybe it's really as simple as that.

And the music to him is spiritual. I know it sounds like hyperbole or some might say "fanboy BS", but there is something to it. I think listening to the incredible music reveals his spiritual side in the sounds of those songs and arrangements, as well as his fun side or the side which is feeling down at any given time.

But I come back to the phrase "I believe music is God's voice". There is no wiggle room on a statement like that, there is no way to parse it or explain it away because it is a very direct statement that reveals a lot about the man, and this is a man who unlike other bandmates is not one to be overtly "religious" or trying to be preachy or pious in any way. He shares and reveals a lot in his music, and I'd suggest he always has from the earliest BB efforts.
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« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2017, 09:27:09 PM »

I will also add too, and knowing some will consider this "Mike bashing" even though it's a straight-up, honest opinion being offered - For all Mike says and does regarding his TM practices and meditation, he does not seem like a man at peace with himself or with his situation despite nearly 50 years of meditating and practicing TM. Someone at peace with the world, and in touch with their spirituality, is generally not going to be estranged and cut off from his own blood brothers, is *not* going to launch into diatribes against friends and family, will not make ridiculous and hurtful comments about those same people in public, and hold grudges for decades even though in several prominent cases he came out the winner. And someone with spiritual awareness and holding inner peace through meditation, religion, or whatever means is generally not the person who will have the reputation of being a jerk to former friends and family members, being known for filing lawsuits and acting as Mike's reputation suggests he does.

I hope he finds peace, inner peace as I hope in general. But to speak so much and so publicly about having found inner peace and being in touch with spirituality through TM and meditation, Mike's words and actions as recent as this year do not seem to reflect that, and I have to ask why is that the case. I don't know the exact tenets of TM as a religion or spiritual quest, but I'd think forgiveness, humility, and letting go of spiteful thoughts and actions against others should be somewhere in the TM guidebook especially for the more advanced devotees.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2017, 10:02:41 PM »

I think Brian is a guy who, in his inspired musical moments, has reached towards the heavens, sometimes he's gotten there, other times he has come very close. But he also has an agitated side to him - agitation, I am guessing, born out of the inability to sustain those occasional heavenly moments.

There is a very potent element to this notion. Maybe it is as much a pressure to repeat those moments as it is an inability to sustain them, as in having the burden of expectation and anticipation that such "divine inspiration" to use a heavy term can just be called on demand and applied to whatever is the next project being undertaken. It's a burden which a lot of musical artists have fallen victim to and which has led to some devastating results when the pursuit of such inspiration combined with the pressure to replicate them as if they're ordering fast food from a menu becomes a hurdle that cannot be leapt over.

Brian is the guy who - 40 years after the fact - said to the effect of "how do you top Good Vibrations? You don't." Yet look at how many wanted him and expected him to do just that. Even in that 1976 TV special, McCartney is there at Brian's birthday celebration saying "Brian, when are you going to give us another Pet Sounds?"...then in the mid-90's you had a label asking for Pet Sounds part 2...and the whole nature of divine inspiration (or just everyday run-of-the-mill sparks of creative juice and inspiration) is that you can try methods to facilitate it, but the very nature of inspiration is random and filled with chance. You cannot order it off a menu.

And sometimes that inspiration creates something so personal, so unique, and so definitive and strong that being asked to replicate it on demand can be taken as an insult, and the expectations that such inspiring works will flow in succession can cause that agitation that can lead to either a radical shift in scope and design (as with Smiley Smile and Wild Honey, perhaps?) or a complete creative shut-down as has happened with any number of artists, authors, musicians, and the like.

This may be one reason why for me as a fan, I would selfishly love to see something else presented around "Smile", but when BWPS did come out it was done at exactly the right moment with the right people and it had the effect which was enough to say Ok, it's been done, let's move on to something else...and not try to recreate what was a truly unique experience in time.

Trying to recreate divine inspiration is a fool's errand, and expecting someone to recreate it is as destructive as it is naive.

And keep in mind this is the same Brian Wilson who has often said "Music is God's voice" and who considers music and the creation of music as a spiritual element and experience. The highest forms of that inspiration cannot be recreated on demand.
You nailed it, guitarfool.  I couldn't have put it together in words as well as you did, but you just said what I've been feeling for a long time (as a songwriter and singer myself).
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« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2017, 11:23:42 PM »

I am not trying to exonerate Mike, but I wouldn't bash him either. The man makes an effort, but has his shortcomings. I've tried to explain how he truly feels about his family, and some of that pain has come across in a negative way in the interviews. Don't forget he and Brian were very close in the early years, as was that whole family, dysfunctional or not. About the lawsuits, I don't recall them all, but I do know he was screwed out of songwriter credits and royalties, consciously or not, by either Murry or that whole BRI set-up. I think guitarfool's analysis is quite balanced, but I also feel Mike Love does not get enough credit for his significant contribution to The Beach Boys through more than 50 years. If nothing else, he wrote the "California myth" with those song lyrics. Let us give credit where credit is due.  Smiley
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« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2017, 05:59:47 AM »

Let us give credit where credit is due.  Smiley

That was done...over and over...duly noted...signed, sealed and delivered...by almost everyone.  He contributed some fine lyrics, some excellent vocal harmonies in the mix, and a few pretty usable ideas to the whole successful process back in the first 3 or 4 years when Brian used Mike's talents to deliver the 'ying' needed to balance Brian's 'yang'.  The formula worked for the group from 1962-63 through 1966 as the band grew, in terms of its collective talent and popularity.  And they did so in leaps and bounds.  Mike helped to make that actually happen.  #1 in the UK for 1966.  First band to knock off the Beatles.

The audience, though, was changing...and maturing.  Brian wanted to move with that change.  Mike whined, resisted and rained on a parade which had a ton of places to go, things to do and people to see.  He's been whining ever since.  Spiritual people are not whiners, malicious, or vengeful.  They do not attempt to justify their shortcomings by blaming their ongoing path in life on  their insatiable need for "nourishment and revenge".  Mike does.  He did...he does...and he likely always will.

We've all given him credit along the way.  Really?  We've given him far more 'praise' than he ever really deserved.  That he chose to shine the spotlight on his own fractured soul...and what makes it 'tick'...is no one's fault but his own.  He had choices he could have made which would have held him in a far kinder sense of 'lighting'.  But he flipped a different switch and he continues to wiggle that toggle like it's a strobe light looking to upset the masses.  In that he has been entirely successful.
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« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2017, 07:11:13 AM »

Let us give credit where credit is due.  Smiley

That was done...over and over...duly noted...signed, sealed and delivered...by almost everyone.  He contributed some fine lyrics, some excellent vocal harmonies in the mix, and a few pretty usable ideas to the whole successful process back in the first 3 or 4 years when Brian used Mike's talents to deliver the 'ying' needed to balance Brian's 'yang'.  The formula worked for the group from 1962-63 through 1966 as the band grew, in terms of its collective talent and popularity.  And they did so in leaps and bounds.  Mike helped to make that actually happen.  #1 in the UK for 1966.  First band to knock off the Beatles.

The audience, though, was changing...and maturing.  Brian wanted to move with that change.  Mike whined, resisted and rained on a parade which had a ton of places to go, things to do and people to see.  He's been whining ever since.  Spiritual people are not whiners, malicious, or vengeful.  They do not attempt to justify their shortcomings by blaming their ongoing path in life on  their insatiable need for "nourishment and revenge".  Mike does.  He did...he does...and he likely always will.

We've all given him credit along the way.  Really?  We've given him far more 'praise' than he ever really deserved.  That he chose to shine the spotlight on his own fractured soul...and what makes it 'tick'...is no one's fault but his own.  He had choices he could have made which would have held him in a far kinder sense of 'lighting'.  But he flipped a different switch and he continues to wiggle that toggle like it's a strobe light looking to upset the masses.  In that he has been entirely successful.

Well put. Sure he made wrong choices. Didn't they all? But what exactly did he nix? There was "Don't f**k with the formula" when presented with PS, there was his skepticism over VDP's SMiLE lyrics. VDP's words were good for that record, but let's be honest, "Over and over, the crow cries, uncover the cornfield?" as opposed to "Till her daddy took her T-Bird away"? Which one communicates more to people? He was afraid the new direction would be a disaster, he feared for his livelihood. Still, he went in there and sang his vocals, he went along. And in retrospect, he has stood up for those records. And he continued to provide good lyrics. "Do it again" has brilliant lyrics. Brian has come forward in so many interviews saying he'd like to get back with Mike, write songs, he'd do it in a heartbeat. Mike has been a bully and a braggart, but I think he's made significant contributions most of the way. His main mistakes have been, in my opinion, "Summer in Paradise" and scuppering more reunions after C50. But he also kept the band going, like a well-oiled machine, all those years. Would there even have been a Beach Boys without Mike? With such longevity? I seriously doubt it.  Smiley
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« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2017, 07:33:15 AM »

I think Brian is a guy who, in his inspired musical moments, has reached towards the heavens, sometimes he's gotten there, other times he has come very close. But he also has an agitated side to him - agitation, I am guessing, born out of the inability to sustain those occasional heavenly moments.

There is a very potent element to this notion. Maybe it is as much a pressure to repeat those moments as it is an inability to sustain them, as in having the burden of expectation and anticipation that such "divine inspiration" to use a heavy term can just be called on demand and applied to whatever is the next project being undertaken. It's a burden which a lot of musical artists have fallen victim to and which has led to some devastating results when the pursuit of such inspiration combined with the pressure to replicate them as if they're ordering fast food from a menu becomes a hurdle that cannot be leapt over.

Brian is the guy who - 40 years after the fact - said to the effect of "how do you top Good Vibrations? You don't." Yet look at how many wanted him and expected him to do just that. Even in that 1976 TV special, McCartney is there at Brian's birthday celebration saying "Brian, when are you going to give us another Pet Sounds?"...then in the mid-90's you had a label asking for Pet Sounds part 2...and the whole nature of divine inspiration (or just everyday run-of-the-mill sparks of creative juice and inspiration) is that you can try methods to facilitate it, but the very nature of inspiration is random and filled with chance. You cannot order it off a menu.

And sometimes that inspiration creates something so personal, so unique, and so definitive and strong that being asked to replicate it on demand can be taken as an insult, and the expectations that such inspiring works will flow in succession can cause that agitation that can lead to either a radical shift in scope and design (as with Smiley Smile and Wild Honey, perhaps?) or a complete creative shut-down as has happened with any number of artists, authors, musicians, and the like.

This may be one reason why for me as a fan, I would selfishly love to see something else presented around "Smile", but when BWPS did come out it was done at exactly the right moment with the right people and it had the effect which was enough to say Ok, it's been done, let's move on to something else...and not try to recreate what was a truly unique experience in time.

Trying to recreate divine inspiration is a fool's errand, and expecting someone to recreate it is as destructive as it is naive.

And keep in mind this is the same Brian Wilson who has often said "Music is God's voice" and who considers music and the creation of music as a spiritual element and experience. The highest forms of that inspiration cannot be recreated on demand.

Good thread, in that it's impossible to answer - but I love the comment about attempting to create and recreate those magical/spiritual moments - and they are just moments that come when they do.

Brian one time tried to impress on me how much the "sense of longing" was important to his music.  Like everything else, I sort of got it, and get more of it at different times, and clearly Dennis knew it immediately, as noted in a post above.

Another moment was not long after Carl died (like GF in some of his previous posts, I probably noted this before somewhere), I mentioned that Carl was his "Angel Voice."  Brian's face lit up and he said, "yes, YES!"  Yeah, I hate when people try to paint Carl as a saint.  He was far too funny - but he gave spirituality quite a voice.

Al seems to really have gotten the connection to the earth and sky, and has remained a good man, connected to that energy, maintaining and voicing it.

Mike, I think, is doing the best he can with the Buddy/Murry heritage and temperament.  I applaud the fact that he tries, until $$ are involved.  I hope he can get past that in this lifetime, since he seems to believe in reincarnation.  Then he could be amazing in a future life.

Brian spoke so often in metaphors that I think he spends as much time as possible examining all aspects of spirituality and creativity.  Some things he said didn't give me that "aha" moment until decades later when it was in my face.  I'm not alone in that experience of him.

And let's not forget that doctors did a study in the late 2000's regarding what music actually healed people, including all genres.  "Whistle In" was the most effective.  Brian wrote it, all of them sang it, so...

Today?  Brian will enjoy his life and who he is (as he should) and if inspiration hits again, we'll hear it.

I once mentioned to a brilliant writer, after I'd studied many cultures, that Brian would have been a shaman in many of them: the psychological break/crisis, the creative brilliance and the healing ability.  He actually liked the idea before he was sidetracked by an overwhelming job.

If anyone can tell me what spirituality is, I'd appreciate the answer.  I think it's different for all of us.  We get different aspects of it at different times.  

Each guy was a part of the whole that is America's Band.  It's the creative version and the perfect reflection of the US in the late 20th/early 21st century, in all of it's contexts - the amazing, generous heights and the disturbing lows.  I'd throw in a little Marvin Gaye while I was at it, though, along with James Brown and Tina Turner.

Quite a post Debbie.
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« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2017, 07:40:45 AM »

GoogaMooga, who exactly doesn't give Mike Love credit? Some youtube trolls and one or two posters here? Most everyone recognizes his accomplishments, most everyone is grateful for his contributions to the Beach Boys (and most every fan, if not every fan, would agree that The Beach Boys as we know them wouldn't exist without Mike Love). The myth that he was the sole reason SMiLE fell apart has been debunked and I don't think too many people blame him for it anymore...I don't at least. I think Summer in Paradise is an awful album but it's not even why I dislike the guy.

Read the 2005 lawsuit where Mike lies about Brian (paraphrasing) "doing nothing from 1968 onward but doing drugs and collecting royalty checks for decades" - that was just 12 years ago, and he was still fighting the case in court until just before the 2012 reunion. In years past he came out and made some really crass comments about Brian in the media ("he's overweight" "he's controlled" "he fried his brain with drugs", it literally goes on and on). This past year Mike hasn't made these comments and it has honestly helped change my opinion about the guy - to me it appears he has possibly matured and stopped being so bitter. It's great and I hope I never see another tactless comment about Brian in the media - if I don't I will continue to have my mind changed about him. His actions are the reason why people dislike the guy, it's not like people one day woke up and decided to dislike the man for no reason.

@DebbieKL - phenomenal post!
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« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2017, 09:36:41 AM »

Okay, I understand why you find some of his behavior obnoxious. Please note I did concede that he could at times be a bully and a braggart, as I wrote before. And it's good to know that he is still respected for his contributions here, on this board, where it really matters. But go to any number of general music boards, the hatred of Mike there is way out of proportion. I like him, but agree he could have handled certain situations better.
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« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2017, 10:26:25 AM »

It's not at all out of proportion.  People have cut him umpteen breaks and he still piles on with the never ending bull sh*t.  That's NEVER ENDING!!!  And he did say in his silly little booklette that he does what he does for his "own nourishment and revenge."  He admits to it and gives you the reasons why.  

No the response to this arsehole  is measured and kept in lock step every time he issues another foray of Mike-Poo.  You will notice that at BW dot calm that in the Beach Boys music section there is a picture of Brian, Dennis, Carl and Al gathered round the mic.  THERE IS NO picture of bald-ass.  Not a one.  Brian's 5oth Anniversary Pet Sounds program includes NO pics of Mike.  He's made his bed.  Screw him!!!

Oh and Cabinessence is one of my all time top 5 favourite+ Beach Boys songs.  Fun Fun Fun is only top 30-35.  The difference...to me?  Cabinessence is a gigantic WOW!!!  NOBODY else can do THAT.    How the heck did they come up with THAT song which still knocks the 'Impress Me' meter pinning into the red.  Easy...for the Beach Boys...because Mike had nothing to do with it...'cept for singing his assigned part.  Fun Cubed, by comparison, is still a great sounding fun song.  It's a classic hit.  But is it a WOW factor song?  Not quite to that colossal extent. There's room for both in the' best' section of the group's body of work...but if I had to make a choice?  I'd take 20/20 and or Smile ahead of Shut Down Volume 2...and I'm a died-in-the-wool fan from the spring of 1963 forward.   Just 'cause dick-weed didn't like it matters 0 to me.  When it comes to composing music and arranging it?  He's a lightweight on his best days.  Gotta be his general lack of spirituality.  That said?  The Beach Boys have [generally] always been about music.  Nuff said.
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« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2017, 10:27:08 AM »

Spirituality is clearly an individualistic concept and practice, even though one often requires education and some form of indoctrination to access it. There is often a tendency to use it as a band-aid for issues that have produced agitation and a sense of "lack of wholeness" where other techniques might prove more effective, and if applied without sufficient perspective can produce a completely warped view of reality.

Thankfully, that last possibility does not exist in any of the BB's efforts in the spiritual realm. Mike has been consistent in his spiritual practice, and we must remember the quote from BB employee Rick Nelson ("Imagine if he'd never meditated!") to remind ourselves that there are so many "in situ" contexts that have powerfully shaped Mike's attitudes and behavior that it becomes hard to know what's causing what. (Mostly, though, we get it: as others have said, it must be tough to be a really good singer--as Mike clearly is--only to look around and discover you're the fourth best singer in your band. Might be a hard fact to accept.)

Clearly, Brian was the first to have a spiritual connection and music was its conduit, for which we all should be eternally grateful. Carl clearly picked up on this the most directly, and all of the other evidence, anecdotal and otherwise, confirms this. It's to Mike's credit that he recognized that he needed a spiritual practice in his life, and his personal life has been a lot more stable as a result of sticking with it. Dennis was so mercurial that we can't trace any kind of linear path for spirituality in his life, but it is clearly present in his music, if only in the yearning for wholeness that often surfaces in his lyrics and in his musical arrangements.  Al seems to have channeled his spirituality into an affinity with native America and the land, a path that leads to the American transcendentalists.

But it was/is Brian's music that was the catalyst for these explorations and journeys, and the music affords us a chance to receive that ourselves, each in our own way, as we listen. And we can share that reception--and receptivity--with those who gather here, despite the dust-ups and schisms, etc. This board remains special for everyone who's remained loyal to it, and for people like Debbie, Ray and Ed--people who were/are part of that glorious, tumultuous history. And of course the incomparable Steve Desper. And our embattled but still-standing moderators!

A perfect thread for this time of year. Happy holidays to all and let's give thanks for the bounty of musical blessings we've received in 2017, an otherwise "difficult" year for those in seek of peace of mind.
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« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2017, 11:30:05 AM »

Okay, I understand why you find some of his behavior obnoxious. Please note I did concede that he could at times be a bully and a braggart, as I wrote before. And it's good to know that he is still respected for his contributions here, on this board, where it really matters. But go to any number of general music boards, the hatred of Mike there is way out of proportion. I like him, but agree he could have handled certain situations better.

While the hatred is sometimes out of proportion, lets keep in mind that things like the 2005 lawsuit give anyone a right to seriously dislike the man...and it's not even his bullying behavior - it is the flat out lying about his own family to make some money. I think Mike Love gets a pass from some people because we're so used to the lawsuits that it becomes "Just something that Mike Love does". Whereas if one of your family members lied about you in order to take your hard earned money in a court of law you probably wouldn't talk to them ever again.

Things aren't black and white and I think it's important to keep both sides of the story in mind - Mike has a right to be annoyed by certain things that happened to him. There's a middle ground I think most fans can meet at. But Mike has done himself no favors when it comes to his public perception (2005 lawsuit, subsequent interviews that tear down Brian). But I sure do hope that Mike is on a positive kick now, he seems to be not as bitter in interviews, and seems to be more upbeat. I think if he keeps that up we will see less out-of-proportion hatred for the guy. And who knows, if the positivity keeps up maybe we'll even get one last reunion album (though very doubtful).
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« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2017, 11:36:30 AM »

Spirituality is clearly an individualistic concept and practice, even though one often requires education and some form of indoctrination to access it. There is often a tendency to use it as a band-aid for issues that have produced agitation and a sense of "lack of wholeness" where other techniques might prove more effective, and if applied without sufficient perspective can produce a completely warped view of reality.

Thankfully, that last possibility does not exist in any of the BB's efforts in the spiritual realm. Mike has been consistent in his spiritual practice, and we must remember the quote from BB employee Rick Nelson ("Imagine if he'd never meditated!") to remind ourselves that there are so many "in situ" contexts that have powerfully shaped Mike's attitudes and behavior that it becomes hard to know what's causing what. (Mostly, though, we get it: as others have said, it must be tough to be a really good singer--as Mike clearly is--only to look around and discover you're the fourth best singer in your band. Might be a hard fact to accept.)

Clearly, Brian was the first to have a spiritual connection and music was its conduit, for which we all should be eternally grateful. Carl clearly picked up on this the most directly, and all of the other evidence, anecdotal and otherwise, confirms this. It's to Mike's credit that he recognized that he needed a spiritual practice in his life, and his personal life has been a lot more stable as a result of sticking with it. Dennis was so mercurial that we can't trace any kind of linear path for spirituality in his life, but it is clearly present in his music, if only in the yearning for wholeness that often surfaces in his lyrics and in his musical arrangements.  Al seems to have channeled his spirituality into an affinity with native America and the land, a path that leads to the American transcendentalists.

But it was/is Brian's music that was the catalyst for these explorations and journeys, and the music affords us a chance to receive that ourselves, each in our own way, as we listen. And we can share that reception--and receptivity--with those who gather here, despite the dust-ups and schisms, etc. This board remains special for everyone who's remained loyal to it, and for people like Debbie, Ray and Ed--people who were/are part of that glorious, tumultuous history. And of course the incomparable Steve Desper. And our embattled but still-standing moderators!

A perfect thread for this time of year. Happy holidays to all and let's give thanks for the bounty of musical blessings we've received in 2017, an otherwise "difficult" year for those in seek of peace of mind.

There have been a couple stellar posts in this thread already, but this is one of my favorite ones. Thanks for the insight, Don.

Quote
Mike has been consistent in his spiritual practice, and we must remember the quote from BB employee Rick Nelson ("Imagine if he'd never meditated!") to remind ourselves that there are so many "in situ" contexts that have powerfully shaped Mike's attitudes and behavior that it becomes hard to know what's causing what. (Mostly, though, we get it: as others have said, it must be tough to be a really good singer--as Mike clearly is--only to look around and discover you're the fourth best singer in your band. Might be a hard fact to accept.)

^this whole section was especially eye-opening.
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God must’ve smiled the day Brian Wilson was born!

"ragegasm" - /rāj • ga-zəm/ : a logical mental response produced when your favorite band becomes remotely associated with the bro-country genre.

Ever want to hear some Beach Boys songs mashed up together like The Beatles' 'LOVE' album? Check out my mix!
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« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2017, 10:08:06 AM »

This has been an excellent discussion and I'm impressed with every post (I think) - no time to review them all since I'm under another writing deadline.  What I love about this place is the intelligent discourse on such a fundamental part of humanity, whomever we'd like to be and where we stand now. It's wonderful to be able to do this without some bizarre, hateful, lying troll derailing the discussion - speaking of the need for spiritual healing, and how well this place is managed, with the tough/gentle love appropriate to this music...

As far as the Mike discussion, I hope my thoughts came across as intended.  I'm no Mike-hater, whatever that is.  I actually have a lot of hope that one day during meditation, he learns to be grateful for his amazing life and to accept that someone brilliant taught him to sing, expressed appreciation for his contribution in that realm and his lyrics appropriate to that time.  While I don't know what Mike actually contributed to the creative process, I've heard Brian at the piano composing, and I actually couldn't move once I was so transfixed, even though I knew it was time to leave him alone with his piano and the little wooden Christmas angel he had sitting on top of it.

I'm very, very clear what Brian's spiritual/creative abilities are.  Let's just say there's no question why he can tour successfully under his own name - and how he brings other gifted artists to tears.  I also get that at a crucial time, it took all of their voices.  I didn't mention Bruce in my post above, but his voice at the end of GOK was perfect.  If only he'd gone on to Broadway where I think he'd have done well (a friend suggested it and she was right). On his own he wrote well in his melodramatic style -not my thing, but it works well for many.

Much appreciation to all of you for your great thoughts, and thanks for your kindness and personal brilliance.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 10:19:47 AM by Debbie KL » Logged
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« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2017, 12:26:38 PM »

COMMENT:  (Part ONE)

Lots of interesting comments on this topic.

I have had the chance to observe each Beach Boy on a one-on-one bases. I have spent hours and hours with each of them where they bare their soul on a creative level, that is, they become one with the creator.

I can’t claim to know an answer to the topic question. The only conclusions I can draw are all superficial observations and not a window into the heart of each Beach Boy. Only God can answer the question with absolute truth.  

Having said that, I can tell you that the group as a group does more charitable work than you know. It’s done behind the scenes, without the press or notoriety and all volunteer.

I have gone with them to hospitals and watch them give wonderful all-acoustic performances to small assembles of the sick, the mimed, the terminal, the young, the veteran. Sometimes it would be just one or two or three – depending on schedules. And sometimes all would go.

Carl always said a prayer before a mixdown. Usually along the lines of asking God to bless the work about to be done and that it would bring happiness to the world. A simple and selfless request. Carl never got mad or spoke ill of others. He had an angelic expression towards life, as felt by many around him.

Brian seemed to understand his role in the cosmic scheme of things, as a vassal or agent of vibration – let if flow . . . get self out of the way.

Dennis had a deeper understanding of God than many knew. Although he lived his mortal life to the full extent, on a creative level he looked for inspiration more from within than from the outside world. Like Brian, he also aware that his source of creativity was not himself, but from a higher power. And he respected that in his approach to writing.

Alan loves nature and his spiritual connections are through nature. Many of his themes reflect this point of view.

Michael’s attempt to align himself with the creator comes through his meditation. At first it was superficial, but as he disciplined himself, I would say he backed into a spiritual nature that eventually turned his inner thinking to the forefront of this approach to life.

Bruce has always been a nice fellow, but as to his spiritual beliefs, they are his private thoughts. He never speaks in those terms.


A Story –

I may have posted this before, but seems appropriate to recount it again.

It must have been the third or fourth time I had been on a tour to England with the group. Saturdays was always a big show night and so Sunday was looked as a day to recover. It seemed to me to be a waste of time to sleep when in such a historic and magnificent city such as London, so I was usually up and about – I could sleep later. Having been in London many times prior, both on leave while in the US Army, or on business, I always found time to go and hear the beautiful services at one of London’s many magnificent places of worship. So I was familiar with the ins and outs of “church visiting.”

This trip I was bound determined to convince Carl and Annie to not spend their Sunday morning in bed, but to come with me to morning church at Westminster Abbey. I thought about going to the larger St. Paul’s Cathedral, but decided on the more intimate service at Westminster Abbey since I knew how to get seats right in the action. I wanted him to experience this service in person, with its boys choir, fantastic acoustics and magnificent organ all reflecting a long historical legacy. You know, if any culture can put on a pomp & circumstance show, it’s the English people. But it wasn’t that, it was the musical experience I know he would appreciate and remember long after returning to Los Angeles.


Let me orient you.  In the following diagram look at the top where it says, Henry VII's Chapel. Opposite the letter “y” in “Henry” you will see some seats with their back toward the North Aisle. That was my target. I had to get Carl to that seating area – and I knew how to do it, if I could get him there by 9:30 AM on a Sunday morning after a huge show the night before. I was only going to get one shot at this, and so several days before, I started laying the groundwork to get Carl to promise me he would get up on Sunday and go. Finally he not only agreed, but he promised.

Diagram of the Abbey:



This was where all the Kings and Queens have been crowned, married and many are buried since 900 AD.
    
This is where I wanted to take Carl and Annie, the Henry VII Chapel:


Do you see the lady with the white hat at the left of the photo. She is seated (now standing) right behind half of the boys choir. This area of seating is usually reserved for visiting dignitaries, English noblemen, and people of title, but on Sunday mornings the public can sit there – if you get to a special gate and have a good place in line.

I was staying at the London Hilton



So after a couple hours of sleep I was awakened by a knock on my door at 5:30 AM by room service for some (pre-arranged) coffee and croissants, which I quickly ate, then hastily dressed in some fresh cloths.


I quickly got a cab and drove directly to the 5-star Savoy Hotel where Carl and Annie were staying. It was still dark.


Walking past all the Rolls Royce’s and into the lobby, I had to get Carl out of bed, but first I had to get to his room. After some identification checking and explanation, I was escorted by the concierge up to Carl’s suite.



Carl’s suite looked over the Theme’s river (no Farris wheel in those days).


He was deeply asleep as usual. It was always hard to awaken Carl, especially after a show night. He would just roll over and grown. But finally, with some help from Annie, who got right up, we got Carl on his feet. He remembered his promise to me to just do this one thing for me while we were in London. And he complained and made excuses all the way from the bathroom to getting dressed. The morning was getting on, so around 8:00 AM we were ready to go down for a fast breakfast. I did not want to use room service, but rather grab something in one of the dining rooms so that Carl would fully awaken. He was that way -- slow to fully come to conciseness. As you can imagine, a quick breakfast in this place is a joke.


But we had time for something simple and so we ordered. This is “simple” at the Savoy.


I knew London well enough to judge travel times, so I needed to get everyone out of the Savoy by 9AM and to arrive at the Abbey no later than 9:20AM.

Carl wore his warmest coat with a scarf and a sports coat. He looked about like is shown in this photo, taken around that time.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 07:09:55 AM by Stephen W. Desper » Logged
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« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2017, 12:29:17 PM »

COMMENT:  (Part TWO)

We arrived at the side of the Abbey right on time at 9.25 AM. There’s a special door to enter into so as to get a seat for the service right up with the choir in the Henry VII chapel. We were there in time – I knew we had made it and that Carl and Annie would be able to share in this beautiful service and experience.

We entered the chapel with about 20 minutes until the service started and found our seats right where I envisioned.

We were sitting to the left in this photo, in seats behind the choir stalls, with the blue tapestry to our backs. This is Carl’s view to his left – looking at the Altar.



Carl’s view to his right – looking back to the Abbey Nave.


Carl could see part of the organ from his seat.


What Carl saw as he looked up


The service started and the choir processional started with the choir taking their places right in front of us and also across from us. The procession continued with the cross, incense, flags, banners, Priests, clergy and choir all making their way past us and up to the Altar.

Take five minutes and listen to what Carl heard. The Queen may not have been there, but the music is the same and the acoustics never change. Here is what it sounded like (in stereo). Remember we are seated right behind the choir (where the clergy is shown with their black and red vestments and white preaching tabs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcfR4utkASo


Carl was sitting between Annie and myself. I looked over a Carl who more than once was tear-eyed as these heavenly sonorities always cast a spiritual spell over those present. Carl, as a musician, as a Christian, and with this English heredity, was moved beyond the tourist level. As the lesson and Bible verses were read, sometimes by a Priest or child reader, and as the various songs and epistles were sung in absolute perfection, I knew Carl was loving it.

After the service Carl wanted to walk around, so we took one of the tours of the Abbey offered by guides at the end of the service. While the organ played we looked at the many interesting resting places of people of history, such as, Sir Isaac Newton, George Frideric Handel, Charles Dickens, Gharles Darwin, and Robert Browning, plus 13 Kings and 5 Queens from 1066 AD to the present.

After the service and tour, it was back to the Savoy so that Carl could get ready for a press conference and photo opt scheduled for the afternoon,

End of Story.
 ~swd

PS … continuing my association with the group, Carl would sometimes reflect back to that service in our discussions over a good bottle of wine, as a moving experience and one he never forgot.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 12:35:02 PM by Stephen W. Desper » Logged
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« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2017, 03:39:48 PM »

Thanks for that very touching story, Mr. Desper.
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« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2017, 05:47:56 PM »

Great telling of a story ever-so-easy to equate with Carl.  Good thing you managed to get him 'up and at 'em' Stephen.  As you mentioned he obviously appreciated that you had been successful in your endeavors.  I, too, remember vividly my visit to the Abbey back in 1978...and we didn't even make it for a service but rather just for a tour...which included visiting those 'resting places' you mentioned.  I've always been an avid reader of Dickens...and I'm thankful for change which his writings would have had a hand in encouraging, inspiring and initiating.  We extricated ourselves when the tour was done in order to prowl around a little more and extract more 'FEEL' from that historic spot.

I also note your ability to enunciate the spirituality 'side' of the discussion coin from your unique perspective.  The sections between the lines were entirely legible and they ring true.

Kind of you to bring Carl to tears... ... ...the right way.

Thank you.
-------------

Oh...and a lovely construction of the audio and visuals to accompany the 'telling' and thus turning the package into something entirely special.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 05:51:04 PM by Add Some » Logged

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« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2017, 05:51:05 PM »

This might be thread of the year! Smiley
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« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2017, 10:15:40 PM »

Thank you so much for sharing that story about Carl and Annie, Mr. Desper! This one resonates especially with me. My family and I were fortunate enough to attend a service at Westminster Abbey in 1997. We sat in the main transept, in a more public area than you, but it was still a very special opportunity to worship in such a beautiful and historic place. I'm glad to hear you took the Wilsons there.
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« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2017, 03:04:47 AM »

I'd also like to add my thanks for this uplifting thread!
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« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2017, 05:26:58 AM »

One of the most beautiful posts I've ever read. Bless you, Mr. Desper.
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« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2017, 08:14:43 AM »

What a beautiful story, plus visual aids to make it even more vivid. Thank you for that. I love this thread.
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« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2017, 12:04:53 PM »

Thanks so much Stephen!  You were always special and that post is magnificent. 

Those of us who love the spiritual essence of BBs music, whatever the faith, appreciate the efforts you put into giving Carl that experience. Even when I was the little 17 year old delivering cheeseburgers to Wally Heider as requested from the Ivar offices, I felt the sense of respect for the music and for the fans who loved them, no matter how young and possibly silly we were - they knew we had the ear to hear them on some level.

With all the adversity the Wilson family faced from their own ancestry, they all have been connected to something so fundamentally spiritual (I think of Mike as a Wilson, too - just through his mother rather than father), there is so much to love here.

I believe Mike carries that aggressive, angry side of the Wilson ancestry (a tough one to overcome) and that he has a desire to at least tame it, even overcome it.  I wish him well.  I'd suggest he take his attorney off speed-dial and really recognize how blessed he's been by the softer side of his family.

I remember one of my friends telling me that after I gave Brian all the volumes of "The Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East," he was astounded to observe Brian reading the entire series.  He kept telling me that Brian never reads, except he read that.

They all know their connection to the Almighty, whatever you consider it, and created healing beauty out of it.  If you're Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, Native culture, and more - we hear it and get it.  I don't care the method taken.  Let's just do our best to stay in contact with that which inspires us and allows us to thrive.  I remember reading that the original definition of angels was something akin to "transmitters." 

That is the sense I get from the ancient sites I love to visit from Greece, to Thailand, to Egypt, to the UK & Ireland, to Bali, to Malta. We can all transmit the best of humanity emanating from the heart of our Universe.  Brian and the BBs have done all of this remarkably well in the form of sound.  No wonder we celebrate them here.
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