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Author Topic: Noel Gallagher hates Brian Wilson  (Read 3066 times)
CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2017, 05:19:27 PM »


I get that people are entitled to their opinion, but that said... it's obvious these guys hold themselves in super high esteem, comparing themselves to The Beatles, etc. Nobody who's not out of their mind on an ego trip would ever do that kind of comparison. That's not an irrelevant thing to consider in this equation.

Nor is it irrelevant to consider that they were a reaction against conservative Thatcher rule in the 1980s which saw a huge demonization of the working class. The Oasis ethos was about being proud and unapologetic of your working class roots; it was a reaction against being told for a decade that your sort of people were less-than-human garbage. When Oasis told people they were "better than" this or "as good" as that, it was a purposeful affront to people who looked upon this culture with contempt.

Moreover, when they were saying these things, they had made one album which was, at the time, the fastest selling debut in UK history and went on to be voted by readers in the #1 music magazine over ten years later as the greatest album of all time. Their second album was one of the biggest selling albums of all time, went on to become the UK's fifth best selling album of all time, and was recently named by the most significant British music awards as the greatest British album since 1980.

They headlines the largest outdoor concerts in UK history. Two and a half million people applied for tickets for their two shows. In the UK, they had eight #1 singles and every album they made went to #1 in the charts.

As good as The Beatles? Of course not. But what they managed to achieve in the 90s was not achieved by many other bands and their cultural importance was vast.

The difference here is that if Noel had maturity and class he would say something like "I've never personally liked Brian Wilson's music but it's obvious that it's had a great effect of many people and they love it, but it's just not for me". That's essentially what you just did in your previous comment about Shakespeare and Tolstoy and yet you're defending a guy with such juvenile sensibilities that he would probably tell you you're an idiot to your face for being here.

If Noel was 19 years old I'd give him a pass, but at his venerable age he should have some level of decorum. It comes with maturity.

I'm not sure if you read the website I linked to but it contains quotes by some of the most sophisticated and important writers in Western history saying things like the following:

"[Ulysses] is a revolting record of a disgusting phase of civilisation" - George Bernard Shaw

"[Ulysses is] the work of a queasy undergraduate scratching his pimples." - Viriginia Woolf

"I am reading Proust for the first time. Very poor stuff. I think he was mentally defective." - Evelyn Waugh

And on and on and on.

I'm sorry that you don't particularly care for the rhetoric and that's fine but the reality is that Noel is simply joining the pantheon of some of the greatest and most sophisticated writers of all time by deploying language the way he is. Personally, I don't think Shaw, Woolf, and Waugh are idiots but they themselves were not above using phrasing like that about their colleagues.

Poor argument. "Hey, these other greats did it too so Noel is joining this illustrious pantheon...!" Ugh.
 

The only thing this argument proves is that there are/have been a lot of rude narcissists with self-esteem issues in the arts. Even if they are/were very talented themselves. No big news flash there.

And I suppose OSD joins them too?

I may believe that OSD goes way too far sometimes, but he is not a contemporary artist of Mike, so the context is completely different. Noel, as a talented but narcissistic artist, is constantly seeking praise for his own work. OSD isnít saying ďMike sucks, and my art, conversely, is worthy of much praiseĒ.

 Furthermore, OSD harps on about Mike as a person based on Mikeís actions over decades, unlike Noel who strictly was hammering Brian for not making music Noel deems worthy of praise. Apples and oranges.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 05:20:28 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2017, 05:23:19 PM »

OSD is a good guy who is nice as hell in person! Smiley
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2017, 05:28:55 PM »

I may believe that OSD goes way too far sometimes, but he is not a contemporary artist of Mike, so the context is completely different. Noel, as a talented but narcissistic artist, is constantly seeking praise for his own work. OSD isnít saying ďMike sucks, and my art, conversely, is worthy of much praiseĒ.

Nor were any of the authors I listed above whom you cast as "rude narcissists" constantly seeking praise for their own work as far as I understand it.

Quote
Furthermore, OSD harps on about Mike as a person based on Mikeís actions over decades, unlike Noel who strictly was hammering Brian for not making music Noel deems worthy of praise. Apples and oranges.

Let me get this straight before I start using the search function: you are arguing that OSD has never commented on Mike's strengths as a creative artist?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 05:42:13 PM by Chocolate Shake Man » Logged
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« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2017, 05:58:24 PM »

OSD is a legend! Grin
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2017, 06:04:41 PM »

I think OSD's posts are amusing personally. I've always found Noel Gallagher amusing too. Both have rubbed people the wrong way. Two peas in a pod they are!
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« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2017, 06:12:05 PM »

I may believe that OSD goes way too far sometimes, but he is not a contemporary artist of Mike, so the context is completely different. Noel, as a talented but narcissistic artist, is constantly seeking praise for his own work. OSD isnít saying ďMike sucks, and my art, conversely, is worthy of much praiseĒ.

Nor were any of the authors I listed above whom you cast as "rude narcissists" constantly seeking praise for their own work as far as I understand it.

Quote
Furthermore, OSD harps on about Mike as a person based on Mikeís actions over decades, unlike Noel who strictly was hammering Brian for not making music Noel deems worthy of praise. Apples and oranges.

Let me get this straight before I start using the search function: you are arguing that OSD has never commented on Mike's strengths as a creative artist?

Noel didnít talk about how great he was in the same interview as he was putting down Brian. But being as he has a history of doing the former, it shows something about his thought process. He long ago established himself as somebody who would puff himself up in an egotistical fashion.

The fact that he puts down somebody as great as Brian isnít particularly surprising considering how self-praisingly he acted about his own art in the past.  Those are not unrelated things; if you canít see that, I donít know what I can do to convince you.

And I have always advocated and encouraged that everybody, including OSD, give praise to Mike for things he should inarguably be praised for, such as lyrics on some phenomenal songs from Today. Many people, from OSD to Noel are capable of having skewed opinions that likely come from resentment, or in Noelís case, IMO, narcissistic jealousy of how utterly loved Brian widely is as an artist, in a way that Noel will in a million years never be.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 06:20:24 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2017, 06:20:20 PM »

Donít look back in anger.... Wink
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2017, 06:22:03 PM »

Donít look back in anger.... Wink

Ironically, thatís the very Oasis song I heard on the radio this morning that I was seriously vibing out to! I wish Noel didnít ruin my enjoyment of his music by being such an ass. Noel should listen to his own lyrics.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 06:24:26 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2017, 06:26:44 PM »

Donít look back in anger.... Wink

...Look back with Love!
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« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2017, 06:38:36 PM »

Billy made a funny! LOL
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #60 on: November 30, 2017, 06:45:35 PM »

I may believe that OSD goes way too far sometimes, but he is not a contemporary artist of Mike, so the context is completely different. Noel, as a talented but narcissistic artist, is constantly seeking praise for his own work. OSD isnít saying ďMike sucks, and my art, conversely, is worthy of much praiseĒ.

Nor were any of the authors I listed above whom you cast as "rude narcissists" constantly seeking praise for their own work as far as I understand it.

Quote
Furthermore, OSD harps on about Mike as a person based on Mikeís actions over decades, unlike Noel who strictly was hammering Brian for not making music Noel deems worthy of praise. Apples and oranges.

Let me get this straight before I start using the search function: you are arguing that OSD has never commented on Mike's strengths as a creative artist?

Noel didnít talk about how great he was in the same interview as he was putting down Brian. But being as he has a history of doing the former, it shows something about his thought process. He long ago established himself as somebody who would puff himself up in an egotistical fashion.

Again, you referred to Viriginia Woolf, George Bernard Shaw, and Evelyn Waugh as rude narcissists when there was no evidence of them talking about how they thought of themselves. Do you genuinely mean to refer to them as "rude narcissists" or is something different to refer to an author as "mentally defective" if you haven't previously compared yourself to another great author? Or is it rude narcissism either way? And if it is, is referring to someone's work as "fertilizer" also rude narcissism?

Quote
The fact that he puts down somebody as great as Brian isnít particularly surprising considering how self-praisingly he acted about his own art in the past.  Those are not unrelated things; if you canít see that, I donít know what I can do to convince you.

And I have always advocated and encouraged that everybody, including OSD, give praise to Mike for things he should inarguably be praised for, such as lyrics on some phenomenal songs from Today. Many people, from OSD to Noel are capable of having skewed opinions that likely come from resentment, or in Noelís case, IMO, narcissistic jealousy of how utterly loved Brian widely is as an artist, in a way that Noel will in a million years never be.

In my opinion, I think you are creating this reason why he's making the comments about Brian Wilson. If he doesn't like Brian because of his "narcissistic jealousy" then why is he constantly heaping praise on John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Mick Jagger, Pete Townshend and others?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 06:46:57 PM by Chocolate Shake Man » Logged
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« Reply #61 on: November 30, 2017, 06:52:55 PM »

I'm torn on this one. I'm a big fan of Noel Gallagher, more for that amazing run with Oasis across the timespan of their first 3 albums and the related singles. I'm in the US, so keep in mind the US was mostly clueless on them until "Wonderwall" hit MTV. But I knew friends who traveled to the UK early on in Oasis' career and said there was something really big about this band that was going to break, similar to the Beatles in November 1963 when With The Beatles broke all sorts of UK records up to that point, and people in the US were clueless about the Beatles until 1964.

So it was people like us picking up imports of the "Whatever" single at Tower for 25 bucks, really digging that song and "Half The World Away", wondering who this guy was writing such amazing tunes, and trying to follow the UK news about them. And wondering as I'm sure people in late '63 who saw "Beatlemania" in the UK and not even a glimpse of it in the US why the hell the US isn't on this ride since the music is so good, and it's basically changing the game in the UK as far as pop/rock music.

So yes, I'm torn...but Noel has been crafting this image as a rock and roll curmudgeon for years now. He likes what he likes, and everything else is bollocks. I think reporters even look forward to or expect him to launch into diatribes about artists other than The Jam, Lennon, Bowie, etc...because it's kind of who he became or how he crafted himself especially after Oasis stopped making good records.

I guess I'm saying Noel was always positioned as kind of a heel, maybe even an outright dick - Nowhere near the levels of his estranged brother who seriously thinks he's John Lennon in spirit, but as someone who gets press for shooting off at the mouth.

I agree, it's not cool.

But in this case...it's very odd because Noel is a HUGE fan of Burt Bacharach, and has openly praised Burt and called This Guys In Love With You the greatest song ever written. When Oasis first got signed, Noel received a lavish Burt Bacharach box set that was only passed around inside the label structure, and put a poster of Burt prominently on the Definitely Maybe cover photographed at his flat at the time.

And Burt in turn invited Noel to meet personally, and called his personal and very expensive private doctor to his place when Noel showed up once with a bad cold.

Yet, Burt and Brian Wilson are pretty much regarded as contemporaries, with Brian also openly praising Burt Bacharach and calling his music a prime influence on his own writing, arranging, and production.

So I see where Noel in his persona would do this, but it doesn't take away my enjoyment of his music (more the earlier stuff), while it does come off as a guy talking out of his ass for the sake of doing so and getting press.

Oasis did change the music game in the UK, no doubt. Few modern bands had that much effect and influence as Oasis, as CSM pointed out above. No denying that, no matter how much they talk smack.

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« Reply #62 on: November 30, 2017, 06:59:53 PM »

But in this case...it's very odd because Noel is a HUGE fan of Burt Bacharach, and has openly praised Burt and called This Guys In Love With You the greatest song ever written. When Oasis first got signed, Noel received a lavish Burt Bacharach box set that was only passed around inside the label structure, and put a poster of Burt prominently on the Definitely Maybe cover photographed at his flat at the time.

Absolutely agree. And I'll go a step further. Around 2005, Noel became obsessed with The Left Banke and, at the time, said he wanted to do a solo record called "Noel Gallagher Sings The Left Banke." Recently, he has been on about Phil Spector as being amazing.

So, I suppose my thinking is, saying you love The Beatles, The Left Banke, and Phil Spector but hate Brian Wilson just doesn't make any sense.

Here's the song off his new album that I'm sure drew the comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjwiwepvS1o
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« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2017, 07:10:23 PM »

I may believe that OSD goes way too far sometimes, but he is not a contemporary artist of Mike, so the context is completely different. Noel, as a talented but narcissistic artist, is constantly seeking praise for his own work. OSD isnít saying ďMike sucks, and my art, conversely, is worthy of much praiseĒ.

Nor were any of the authors I listed above whom you cast as "rude narcissists" constantly seeking praise for their own work as far as I understand it.

Quote
Furthermore, OSD harps on about Mike as a person based on Mikeís actions over decades, unlike Noel who strictly was hammering Brian for not making music Noel deems worthy of praise. Apples and oranges.

Let me get this straight before I start using the search function: you are arguing that OSD has never commented on Mike's strengths as a creative artist?

Noel didnít talk about how great he was in the same interview as he was putting down Brian. But being as he has a history of doing the former, it shows something about his thought process. He long ago established himself as somebody who would puff himself up in an egotistical fashion.

Again, you referred to Viriginia Woolf, George Bernard Shaw, and Evelyn Waugh as rude narcissists when there was no evidence of them talking about how they thought of themselves. Do you genuinely mean to refer to them as "rude narcissists" or is something different to refer to an author as "mentally defective" if you haven't previously compared yourself to another great author? Or is it rude narcissism either way? And if it is, is referring to someone's work as "fertilizer" also rude narcissism?

Quote
The fact that he puts down somebody as great as Brian isnít particularly surprising considering how self-praisingly he acted about his own art in the past.  Those are not unrelated things; if you canít see that, I donít know what I can do to convince you.

And I have always advocated and encouraged that everybody, including OSD, give praise to Mike for things he should inarguably be praised for, such as lyrics on some phenomenal songs from Today. Many people, from OSD to Noel are capable of having skewed opinions that likely come from resentment, or in Noelís case, IMO, narcissistic jealousy of how utterly loved Brian widely is as an artist, in a way that Noel will in a million years never be.

In my opinion, I think you are creating this reason why he's making the comments about Brian Wilson. If he doesn't like Brian because of his "narcissistic jealousy" then why is he constantly heaping praise on John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Mick Jagger, Pete Townshend and others?

I cannot speak to the specific actions of those specific people you mentionedÖ Iím just saying as a general rule, if you have an artist who talks in a comically self-aggrandizing way about themselves, and then puts down somebody else in a highly rude way, this is a personality trait that resembles narcissism.  I believe that to be true in a general sense, but I will not pretend to be familiar with the people you have mentioned in terms of their careers or personalities. But as a general rule I believe what I said is mostly true.

Do you believe Phil Spector to be a narcissist?  I think thatís a no-brainer there. Most of us on this board are pretty familiar with him, which is why I bring him up. Yet I am certain that Phil has said many great things about various other non-Brian musicians. *Being a narcissist doesnít mean you are incapable of praising anybody else.* It just might mean that some artists are more of a threat to you than others.   Perhaps because of the level of praise those people get is on par with what they want for themselves.

A particularly notable thing about Brian is that people love him not just for his music, but for the triumph over adversity story that his life has encompassed. I think somebody would have to be somewhat heartless to not have that pull their heartstrings somewhat and positively affect their listening experience of Brianís music. But maybe Noel fits that bill a bit, I dunno.  It just seems like he likes attention in the media, no matter how he gets it. Thatís a pretty detestable trait in my opinion.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 07:39:19 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2017, 07:11:18 PM »

But in this case...it's very odd because Noel is a HUGE fan of Burt Bacharach, and has openly praised Burt and called This Guys In Love With You the greatest song ever written. When Oasis first got signed, Noel received a lavish Burt Bacharach box set that was only passed around inside the label structure, and put a poster of Burt prominently on the Definitely Maybe cover photographed at his flat at the time.

Absolutely agree. And I'll go a step further. Around 2005, Noel became obsessed with The Left Banke and, at the time, said he wanted to do a solo record called "Noel Gallagher Sings The Left Banke." Recently, he has been on about Phil Spector as being amazing.

So, I suppose my thinking is, saying you love The Beatles, The Left Banke, and Phil Spector but hate Brian Wilson just doesn't make any sense.

Here's the song off his new album that I'm sure drew the comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjwiwepvS1o

I sense you're a fellow traveler with Oasis in those glory years. I wasn't even in the UK, but it's hard to describe just how good it felt to hear a new song like Half The World Away or when the Morning Glory album came out, and to know there was a songwriter making music that sounded that way. It's hard to put into words, but it inspired a lot of young musicians to write songs and make music.

I do think Noel ran out of ideas. After the original "Masterplan" run of those three albums and those singles, he started rehashing and reusing those same chord structures and doing different melodies on top. It no longer sounded fresh. Some of it was good, sure, but it felt like I'd heard it before with different lyrics. Although i still think "Let There Be Love" is a brilliant song and a crowning achievement from those later years.

Sounds like Noel is into Spector. That sounds like the production on "This Could Be The Night" or something. But that blues harmonica solo...doesn't fit at all.

If Noel slags off on Brian, his music and his influence via Bacharach seems to disprove whatever reasoning he's using to make those comments now.
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« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2017, 07:18:40 PM »

I'd also suggest based on the reality of the situations and history that Brian had what none of the others had in that he was a truly self-contained artist when he was cutting those classic Beach Boys records from 63-67. He wrote, performed, produced, AND arranged those records. All of them. None of the others including Bacharach can stake such a claim. Bacharach couldn't and didn't sing. Spector hired Jack Nitschke to arrange the charts which gave them that signature sound with all those instruments packed together, as well as relying on hired gun writers like Barry and Greenwich. Lennon couldn't produce or arrange and had George Martin to do that work. George Martin didn't write pop songs or sing. The list goes on and on.

I wonder if there is or has been any artist in that era who had the success of Brian Wilson especially in the Capitol years who wore all those hats and did all those roles in making the records. If Noel realized that, maybe he'd rethink the comments unless as I suggested he's just playing up his persona as a grumpy curmudgeon commentator akin to the Andy Rooney of the rock world or something.
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« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2017, 07:19:56 PM »

I'd also suggest based on the reality of the situations and history that Brian had what none of the others had in that he was a truly self-contained artist when he was cutting those classic Beach Boys records from 63-67. He wrote, performed, produced, AND arranged those records. All of them. None of the others including Bacharach can stake such a claim. Bacharach couldn't and didn't sing. Spector hired Jack Nitschke to arrange the charts which gave them that signature sound with all those instruments packed together, as well as relying on hired gun writers like Barry and Greenwich. Lennon couldn't produce or arrange and had George Martin to do that work. George Martin didn't write pop songs or sing. The list goes on and on.

I wonder if there is or has been any artist in that era who had the success of Brian Wilson especially in the Capitol years who wore all those hats and did all those roles in making the records. If Noel realized that, maybe he'd rethink the comments unless as I suggested he's just playing up his persona as a grumpy curmudgeon commentator akin to the Andy Rooney of the rock world or something.

I concur. Noel seems to be going the Billy Corgan route.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 07:24:47 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2017, 07:45:38 PM »

I'm guessing alcohol was involved.
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« Reply #68 on: November 30, 2017, 08:52:42 PM »

I have despised Gallagher and Oasis since I first heard them twenty + years ago.  I don't think their music is good; it sounds awful to me and literally pains my ears and brain.  His voice...just urgh.  Awful.  And obviously he's the biggest ass in the history of asses. 

However, I get the feeling that the comment in this article was just him being stupid and not necessarily meaning it.  Bottom line, he's a complete jackass so this comment is consistent with past behaviour. 
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« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2017, 11:19:34 PM »

I have despised Gallagher and Oasis since I first heard them twenty + years ago.  I don't think their music is good; it sounds awful to me and literally pains my ears and brain.  His voice...just urgh.  Awful.  And obviously he's the biggest ass in the history of asses. 

However, I get the feeling that the comment in this article was just him being stupid and not necessarily meaning it.  Bottom line, he's a complete jackass so this comment is consistent with past behaviour. 

I read an interview with him in the early 90s before they broke big where he slagged off the Beach Boys. Hated him ever since. Never got the fuss. Their music is boring and derivative. My 11 year old could write a better song in 5 minutes than anything that talentless little spunk-bubble has even imagined. No exaggeration.

Words cannot express how much I hate this man.
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« Reply #70 on: December 01, 2017, 12:59:38 AM »

I read about this the other day. it did make me laugh for being so ironic. Noel Gallagher is one of the most overrated people today...
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« Reply #71 on: December 01, 2017, 01:01:11 AM »

I was lucky enough to go to Brian Wilson and Noel Gallagher gigs last year, I like both for very different reasons and I enjoy listening to both!  But Brian Wilson overrated?! come on now...
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« Reply #72 on: December 01, 2017, 02:02:21 AM »

My bet is he only says inflammatory stuff like that to stay in the press and keep his records/concerts mentioned...
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« Reply #73 on: December 01, 2017, 04:15:06 AM »

My bet is he only says inflammatory stuff like that to stay in the press and keep his records/concerts mentioned...

Probably, although he has slated the Beach Boys in the past
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« Reply #74 on: December 01, 2017, 06:46:36 AM »

I read about this the other day. it did make me laugh for being so ironic. Noel Gallagher is one of the most overrated people today...

Which is what Noel himself said!
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