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Author Topic: Noel Gallagher hates Brian Wilson  (Read 3065 times)
Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2017, 02:50:06 PM »

No more than half a dozen decent tunes in his catalogue

He is a plageurist pure and simple. He hasn't written an original melody in his whole career.  He won't even realise he is doing it because he is a talentless little wankstain who should be boiled alive in his own excrement.

Absurd. He's probably lifted fewer melodies than Bob Dylan has.
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« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2017, 03:00:26 PM »

Canít say Iím all that surprised.... gotta at least respect him though for not beating around the bush and being genuine about himself and his views.... however much I strongly disagree with him on Brian as well as Corbyn.
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« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2017, 03:10:10 PM »

Well, I was trying to give him some credit for surviving in the business and having a few hits. No way it compares to Brian's lifelong career and huge catalogue of songs
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« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2017, 03:17:45 PM »

Great artists hate other great artists. That's nothing new.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ariannarebolini/writers-throwing-shade?utm_term=.fcx91X0qgl#.vebw9G4Yk5
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« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2017, 03:23:29 PM »

Noel has repeatedly trashed Brian Wilson for a while now. He's a Beatle fanatic who despises anyone who would dare to say The Beach Boys should be held in the same esteem. It's got nothing to do with critical thinking. He has the mind of a child.



   
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« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2017, 03:24:52 PM »

I wonder if he's been talking to Steve Jones of the Sex Pistols lately....another Brian basher.  Angry
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« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2017, 03:26:34 PM »

Noel has repeatedly trashed Brian Wilson for a while now. He's a Beatle fanatic who despises anyone who would dare to say The Beach Boys should be held in the same esteem. It's got nothing to do with critical thinking. He has the mind of a child.


It kind of reminds me of Phil Spector, who has put down Brian Wilson as well. I think in Noel's case - as well as Phil's - it has everything to do with their own self esteem and narcissism, feeling threatened and not being able to handle someone other than themselves being heaped praise upon. It feels like Noel is doing his best Beavis Cornholio impression:

"are you threatening me? I am the great Noel-holio!"
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« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2017, 03:28:41 PM »

Noel has repeatedly trashed Brian Wilson for a while now. He's a Beatle fanatic who despises anyone who would dare to say The Beach Boys should be held in the same esteem. It's got nothing to do with critical thinking. He has the mind of a child.


It kind of reminds me of Phil Spector, who has put down Brian Wilson as well. I think in Noel's case - as well as Phil's - it has everything to do with their own self esteem and narcissism, feeling threatened and not being able to handle someone other than themselves being heaped praise upon. It feels like Noel is doing his best Beavis Cornholio impression:

"are you threatening me? I am the great Noel-holio!"

I doubt it, really. Noel has great respect for people who have had tremendous praise and respect. Is it so hard to accept that he just doesn't like The Beach Boys? Two of my favourite writers are Shakespeare and Tolstoy. Tolstoy didn't like Shakespeare and for a reason that I don't think is particularly supportable. Doesn't bother me in the slightest nor does it take away from the greatness of Tolstoy's work.
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« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2017, 03:29:55 PM »

Noel has repeatedly trashed Brian Wilson for a while now. He's a Beatle fanatic who despises anyone who would dare to say The Beach Boys should be held in the same esteem. It's got nothing to do with critical thinking. He has the mind of a child.


It kind of reminds me of Phil Spector, who has put down Brian Wilson as well. I think in Noel's case - as well as Phil's - it has everything to do with their own self esteem and narcissism, feeling threatened and not being able to handle someone other than themselves being heaped praise upon. It feels like Noel is doing his best Beavis Cornholio impression:

"are you threatening me? I am the great Noel-holio!"

I doubt it, really. Noel has great respect for people who have had tremendous praise and respect. Is it so hard to accept that he just doesn't like The Beach Boys? Two of my favourite writers are Shakespeare and Tolstoy. Tolstoy didn't like Shakespeare and for a reason that I don't think is particularly supportable. Doesn't bother me in the slightest nor does it take away from the greatness of Tolstoy's work.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 03:33:13 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2017, 03:31:15 PM »

Noel has repeatedly trashed Brian Wilson for a while now. He's a Beatle fanatic who despises anyone who would dare to say The Beach Boys should be held in the same esteem. It's got nothing to do with critical thinking. He has the mind of a child.


It kind of reminds me of Phil Spector, who has put down Brian Wilson as well. I think in Noel's case - as well as Phil's - it has everything to do with their own self esteem and narcissism, feeling threatened and not being able to handle someone other than themselves being heaped praise upon. It feels like Noel is doing his best Beavis Cornholio impression:

"are you threatening me? I am the great Noel-holio!"

I doubt it, really. Noel has great respect for people who have had tremendous praise and respect. Is it so hard to accept that he just doesn't like The Beach Boys? Two of my favourite writers are Shakespeare and Tolstoy. Tolstoy didn't like Shakespeare and for a reason that I don't think is particularly supportable. Doesn't bother me in the slightest nor does it take away from the greatness of Tolstoy's work.



Not buying it. Sorry.

Seems like you are trying to invent a reason for him other than him just not liking the music.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 03:31:56 PM by Chocolate Shake Man » Logged
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« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2017, 03:35:37 PM »

Noel has repeatedly trashed Brian Wilson for a while now. He's a Beatle fanatic who despises anyone who would dare to say The Beach Boys should be held in the same esteem. It's got nothing to do with critical thinking. He has the mind of a child.


It kind of reminds me of Phil Spector, who has put down Brian Wilson as well. I think in Noel's case - as well as Phil's - it has everything to do with their own self esteem and narcissism, feeling threatened and not being able to handle someone other than themselves being heaped praise upon. It feels like Noel is doing his best Beavis Cornholio impression:

"are you threatening me? I am the great Noel-holio!"

I doubt it, really. Noel has great respect for people who have had tremendous praise and respect. Is it so hard to accept that he just doesn't like The Beach Boys? Two of my favourite writers are Shakespeare and Tolstoy. Tolstoy didn't like Shakespeare and for a reason that I don't think is particularly supportable. Doesn't bother me in the slightest nor does it take away from the greatness of Tolstoy's work.



Not buying it. Sorry.

Seems like you are trying to invent a reason for him other than him just not liking the music.

I get that people are entitled to their opinion, but that said... it's obvious these guys hold themselves in super high esteem, comparing themselves to The Beatles, etc. Nobody who's not out of their mind on an ego trip would ever do that kind of comparison. Wouldn't you agree? That's not an irrelevant thing to consider in this equation.

The only reason to brutally tear down someone as great as Brian Wilson, in the manner that Noel is doing it, is out of some sort of misplaced anger, jealousy, or resentment. I can't buy that someone who has as much actual talent as Noel (he does have it) would actually logically think that the music of Brian Wilson is truly garbage, deserving of putting it down in the way he does. He's as threatened by Brian's widely perceived greatness as Mike is. The Great Noelholio (t-shirt revised):  

« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 03:42:12 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2017, 03:44:29 PM »


I get that people are entitled to their opinion, but that said... it's obvious these guys hold themselves in super high esteem, comparing themselves to The Beatles, etc. Nobody who's not out of their mind on an ego trip would ever do that kind of comparison. That's not an irrelevant thing to consider in this equation.

Nor is it irrelevant to consider that they were a reaction against conservative Thatcher rule in the 1980s which saw a huge demonization of the working class. The Oasis ethos was about being proud and unapologetic of your working class roots; it was a reaction against being told for a decade that your sort of people were less-than-human garbage. When Oasis told people they were "better than" this or "as good" as that, it was a purposeful affront to people who looked upon this culture with contempt.

Moreover, when they were saying these things, they had made one album which was, at the time, the fastest selling debut in UK history and went on to be voted by readers in the #1 music magazine over ten years later as the greatest album of all time. Their second album was one of the biggest selling albums of all time, went on to become the UK's fifth best selling album of all time, and was recently named by the most significant British music awards as the greatest British album since 1980.

They headlines the largest outdoor concerts in UK history. Two and a half million people applied for tickets for their two shows. In the UK, they had eight #1 singles and every album they made went to #1 in the charts.

As good as The Beatles? Of course not. But what they managed to achieve in the 90s was not achieved by many other bands and their cultural importance was vast.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 03:59:51 PM by Chocolate Shake Man » Logged
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« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2017, 04:14:19 PM »


I get that people are entitled to their opinion, but that said... it's obvious these guys hold themselves in super high esteem, comparing themselves to The Beatles, etc. Nobody who's not out of their mind on an ego trip would ever do that kind of comparison. That's not an irrelevant thing to consider in this equation.

Nor is it irrelevant to consider that they were a reaction against conservative Thatcher rule in the 1980s which saw a huge demonization of the working class. The Oasis ethos was about being proud and unapologetic of your working class roots; it was a reaction against being told for a decade that your sort of people were less-than-human garbage. When Oasis told people they were "better than" this or "as good" as that, it was a purposeful affront to people who looked upon this culture with contempt.

Moreover, when they were saying these things, they had made one album which was, at the time, the fastest selling debut in UK history and went on to be voted by readers in the #1 music magazine over ten years later as the greatest album of all time. Their second album was one of the biggest selling albums of all time, went on to become the UK's fifth best selling album of all time, and was recently named by the most significant British music awards as the greatest British album since 1980.

They headlines the largest outdoor concerts in UK history. Two and a half million people applied for tickets for their two shows. In the UK, they had eight #1 singles and every album they made went to #1 in the charts.

As good as The Beatles? Of course not. But what they managed to achieve in the 90s was not achieved by many other bands and their cultural importance was vast.

The difference here is that if Noel had maturity and class he would say something like "I've never personally liked Brian Wilson's music but it's obvious that it's had a great effect of many people and they love it, but it's just not for me". That's essentially what you just did in your previous comment about Shakespeare and Tolstoy and yet you're defending a guy with such juvenile sensibilities that he would probably tell you you're an idiot to your face for being here.

If Noel was 19 years old I'd give him a pass, but at his venerable age he should have some level of decorum. It comes with maturity.
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« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2017, 04:18:58 PM »


I get that people are entitled to their opinion, but that said... it's obvious these guys hold themselves in super high esteem, comparing themselves to The Beatles, etc. Nobody who's not out of their mind on an ego trip would ever do that kind of comparison. That's not an irrelevant thing to consider in this equation.

Nor is it irrelevant to consider that they were a reaction against conservative Thatcher rule in the 1980s which saw a huge demonization of the working class. The Oasis ethos was about being proud and unapologetic of your working class roots; it was a reaction against being told for a decade that your sort of people were less-than-human garbage. When Oasis told people they were "better than" this or "as good" as that, it was a purposeful affront to people who looked upon this culture with contempt.

Moreover, when they were saying these things, they had made one album which was, at the time, the fastest selling debut in UK history and went on to be voted by readers in the #1 music magazine over ten years later as the greatest album of all time. Their second album was one of the biggest selling albums of all time, went on to become the UK's fifth best selling album of all time, and was recently named by the most significant British music awards as the greatest British album since 1980.

They headlines the largest outdoor concerts in UK history. Two and a half million people applied for tickets for their two shows. In the UK, they had eight #1 singles and every album they made went to #1 in the charts.

As good as The Beatles? Of course not. But what they managed to achieve in the 90s was not achieved by many other bands and their cultural importance was vast.

The difference here is that if Noel had maturity and class he would say something like "I've never personally liked Brian Wilson's music but it's obvious that it's had a great effect of many people and they love it, but it's just not for me". That's essentially what you just did in your previous comment about Shakespeare and Tolstoy and yet you're defending a guy with such juvenile sensibilities that he would probably tell you you're an idiot to your face for being here.

If Noel was 19 years old I'd give him a pass, but at his venerable age he should have some level of decorum. It comes with maturity.

+1. It is NEVER, and I mean never, and artist's place to compare themselves to another great artist, let alone arguably THE most highly-regarded band of the last century. Anybody who does that is out of their minds, and has some serious self-esteem issues. To do so is ridiculous on every level.  It's ONLY the place of critics, historians, and fans to make any such comparison. Period. End of story.

Also, despite the fact that I think the Oasis brothers are immature and narcissistic yutzes as people, I absolutely think their 1st two albums are super, duper good. They are fantastic albums and I won't let the brothers' deficiencies as people negate my appreciation for their genuinely fine music. Ditto with Phil Spector's music. Sick and/or insecure dudes (in different ways of course), but they made great music.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 04:21:40 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2017, 04:19:18 PM »


I get that people are entitled to their opinion, but that said... it's obvious these guys hold themselves in super high esteem, comparing themselves to The Beatles, etc. Nobody who's not out of their mind on an ego trip would ever do that kind of comparison. That's not an irrelevant thing to consider in this equation.

Nor is it irrelevant to consider that they were a reaction against conservative Thatcher rule in the 1980s which saw a huge demonization of the working class. The Oasis ethos was about being proud and unapologetic of your working class roots; it was a reaction against being told for a decade that your sort of people were less-than-human garbage. When Oasis told people they were "better than" this or "as good" as that, it was a purposeful affront to people who looked upon this culture with contempt.

Moreover, when they were saying these things, they had made one album which was, at the time, the fastest selling debut in UK history and went on to be voted by readers in the #1 music magazine over ten years later as the greatest album of all time. Their second album was one of the biggest selling albums of all time, went on to become the UK's fifth best selling album of all time, and was recently named by the most significant British music awards as the greatest British album since 1980.

They headlines the largest outdoor concerts in UK history. Two and a half million people applied for tickets for their two shows. In the UK, they had eight #1 singles and every album they made went to #1 in the charts.

As good as The Beatles? Of course not. But what they managed to achieve in the 90s was not achieved by many other bands and their cultural importance was vast.

The difference here is that if Noel had maturity and class he would say something like "I've never personally liked Brian Wilson's music but it's obvious that it's had a great effect of many people and they love it, but it's just not for me". That's essentially what you just did in your previous comment about Shakespeare and Tolstoy and yet you're defending a guy with such juvenile sensibilities that he would probably tell you you're an idiot to your face for being here.

If Noel was 19 years old I'd give him a pass, but at his venerable age he should have some level of decorum. It comes with maturity.

I'm not sure if you read the website I linked to but it contains quotes by some of the most sophisticated and important writers in Western history saying things like the following:

"[Ulysses] is a revolting record of a disgusting phase of civilisation" - George Bernard Shaw

"[Ulysses is] the work of a queasy undergraduate scratching his pimples." - Viriginia Woolf

"I am reading Proust for the first time. Very poor stuff. I think he was mentally defective." - Evelyn Waugh

And on and on and on.

I'm sorry that you don't particularly care for the rhetoric and that's fine but the reality is that Noel is simply joining the pantheon of some of the greatest and most sophisticated writers of all time by deploying language the way he is. Personally, I don't think Shaw, Woolf, and Waugh are idiots but they themselves were not above using phrasing like that about their colleagues.
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« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2017, 04:21:12 PM »


I get that people are entitled to their opinion, but that said... it's obvious these guys hold themselves in super high esteem, comparing themselves to The Beatles, etc. Nobody who's not out of their mind on an ego trip would ever do that kind of comparison. That's not an irrelevant thing to consider in this equation.

Nor is it irrelevant to consider that they were a reaction against conservative Thatcher rule in the 1980s which saw a huge demonization of the working class. The Oasis ethos was about being proud and unapologetic of your working class roots; it was a reaction against being told for a decade that your sort of people were less-than-human garbage. When Oasis told people they were "better than" this or "as good" as that, it was a purposeful affront to people who looked upon this culture with contempt.

Moreover, when they were saying these things, they had made one album which was, at the time, the fastest selling debut in UK history and went on to be voted by readers in the #1 music magazine over ten years later as the greatest album of all time. Their second album was one of the biggest selling albums of all time, went on to become the UK's fifth best selling album of all time, and was recently named by the most significant British music awards as the greatest British album since 1980.

They headlines the largest outdoor concerts in UK history. Two and a half million people applied for tickets for their two shows. In the UK, they had eight #1 singles and every album they made went to #1 in the charts.

As good as The Beatles? Of course not. But what they managed to achieve in the 90s was not achieved by many other bands and their cultural importance was vast.

The difference here is that if Noel had maturity and class he would say something like "I've never personally liked Brian Wilson's music but it's obvious that it's had a great effect of many people and they love it, but it's just not for me". That's essentially what you just did in your previous comment about Shakespeare and Tolstoy and yet you're defending a guy with such juvenile sensibilities that he would probably tell you you're an idiot to your face for being here.

If Noel was 19 years old I'd give him a pass, but at his venerable age he should have some level of decorum. It comes with maturity.

100% agreed
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« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2017, 04:25:32 PM »


I get that people are entitled to their opinion, but that said... it's obvious these guys hold themselves in super high esteem, comparing themselves to The Beatles, etc. Nobody who's not out of their mind on an ego trip would ever do that kind of comparison. That's not an irrelevant thing to consider in this equation.

Nor is it irrelevant to consider that they were a reaction against conservative Thatcher rule in the 1980s which saw a huge demonization of the working class. The Oasis ethos was about being proud and unapologetic of your working class roots; it was a reaction against being told for a decade that your sort of people were less-than-human garbage. When Oasis told people they were "better than" this or "as good" as that, it was a purposeful affront to people who looked upon this culture with contempt.

Moreover, when they were saying these things, they had made one album which was, at the time, the fastest selling debut in UK history and went on to be voted by readers in the #1 music magazine over ten years later as the greatest album of all time. Their second album was one of the biggest selling albums of all time, went on to become the UK's fifth best selling album of all time, and was recently named by the most significant British music awards as the greatest British album since 1980.

They headlines the largest outdoor concerts in UK history. Two and a half million people applied for tickets for their two shows. In the UK, they had eight #1 singles and every album they made went to #1 in the charts.

As good as The Beatles? Of course not. But what they managed to achieve in the 90s was not achieved by many other bands and their cultural importance was vast.

The difference here is that if Noel had maturity and class he would say something like "I've never personally liked Brian Wilson's music but it's obvious that it's had a great effect of many people and they love it, but it's just not for me". That's essentially what you just did in your previous comment about Shakespeare and Tolstoy and yet you're defending a guy with such juvenile sensibilities that he would probably tell you you're an idiot to your face for being here.

If Noel was 19 years old I'd give him a pass, but at his venerable age he should have some level of decorum. It comes with maturity.

I'm not sure if you read the website I linked to but it contains quotes by some of the most sophisticated and important writers in Western history saying things like the following:

"[Ulysses] is a revolting record of a disgusting phase of civilisation" - George Bernard Shaw

"[Ulysses is] the work of a queasy undergraduate scratching his pimples." - Viriginia Woolf

"I am reading Proust for the first time. Very poor stuff. I think he was mentally defective." - Evelyn Waugh

And on and on and on.

I'm sorry that you don't particularly care for the rhetoric and that's fine but the reality is that Noel is simply joining the pantheon of some of the greatest and most sophisticated writers of all time by deploying language the way he is. Personally, I don't think Shaw, Woolf, and Waugh are idiots but they themselves were not above using phrasing like that about their colleagues.

It's not *just* Noel's putting down of arguably the greatest composer of the 20th century, but coupled with the fact that Noel personally propped himself up to be held in similar regard to The Beatles, that's a one-two punch of a character flaw that shows he is really warped with ego. It's a double whammy.

Again, he can choose to say/think anything he wants to.  But he's shown his true colors, and honestly it's mighty hard to take anyone who has said BOTH of those things (putting down others AND propping himself up to the level he has) seriously without realizing that the only people who generally do those two things are people who are coming from a deeply insecure place. Even if they (Noel in this case) are indeed mighty talented.

I can't take The Great Noelholio's opinion of Brian any more seriously than I can Phil Spector's opinion of Brian.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 04:29:28 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2017, 04:32:25 PM »

It's not *just* Noel's putting down of arguably the greatest composer of the 20th century,

Yes, and Viriginia Woolf put down what is arguably the greatest novel of all time. And Leo Tolstoy put down a writer who was arguably the greatest playwright of all time. ANd so on...

Quote
but coupled with the fact that Noel personally propped himself up to be held in similar regard to The Beatles, that's a one-two punch of a character flaw that shows he is really warped with ego.

I explained the posturing above. I know that you don't really follow the band, but Noel clearly does not hold himself to up be held in similar regard to The Beatles in terms of their skill. He does say what's perfectly true that Oasis are amongst the most successful and popular bands in the history of England. He also says all the time how hey appropriates other music and how he's severely limited in terms of his writing and musical skills.
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« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2017, 04:40:12 PM »

It's not *just* Noel's putting down of arguably the greatest composer of the 20th century,

Yes, and Viriginia Woolf put down what is arguably the greatest novel of all time. And Leo Tolstoy put down a writer who was arguably the greatest playwright of all time. ANd so on...

Quote
but coupled with the fact that Noel personally propped himself up to be held in similar regard to The Beatles, that's a one-two punch of a character flaw that shows he is really warped with ego.

I explained the posturing above. I know that you don't really follow the band, but Noel clearly does not hold himself to up be held in similar regard to The Beatles in terms of their skill. He does say what's perfectly true that Oasis are amongst the most successful and popular bands in the history of England. He also says all the time how hey appropriates other music and how he's severely limited in terms of his writing and musical skills.

I will say that I definitely don't follow Oasis to the level that you do, and I humbly appreciate that I'm out of my league in trying to argue or grasp specifics of their history in the manner that you know their history. (No sarcasm intended in that sentence, by the way - it might come off sarcastic in just typed words, but not my intention).

I guess I have a problem with artists (and people in general) posturing to this type of level, and no amount of explaining their history, IMHO, will make me take their opinion (in a manner/situation such as this) too terribly seriously as a result. The two brothers seem to have a history of acting like jerks and saying things just to grab attention.

Even if Noel won't hold himself up to the level of The Beatles on all levels, and might admit limitations - it's still much like with Mike Love, where he has a way overblown sense of self-importance, yet nevertheless has a smidgen of self-awareness where he fortunately still won't compare his own talents to Brian's in terms of certain talents that UNARGUABLY he cannot compete with Brian on...   still, Noel's got an overblown ego at the end of the day, and only someone who is warped in that way would talk so crudely about Brian Wilson without any sense of manners.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 04:42:09 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2017, 04:42:19 PM »


I get that people are entitled to their opinion, but that said... it's obvious these guys hold themselves in super high esteem, comparing themselves to The Beatles, etc. Nobody who's not out of their mind on an ego trip would ever do that kind of comparison. That's not an irrelevant thing to consider in this equation.

Nor is it irrelevant to consider that they were a reaction against conservative Thatcher rule in the 1980s which saw a huge demonization of the working class. The Oasis ethos was about being proud and unapologetic of your working class roots; it was a reaction against being told for a decade that your sort of people were less-than-human garbage. When Oasis told people they were "better than" this or "as good" as that, it was a purposeful affront to people who looked upon this culture with contempt.

Moreover, when they were saying these things, they had made one album which was, at the time, the fastest selling debut in UK history and went on to be voted by readers in the #1 music magazine over ten years later as the greatest album of all time. Their second album was one of the biggest selling albums of all time, went on to become the UK's fifth best selling album of all time, and was recently named by the most significant British music awards as the greatest British album since 1980.

They headlines the largest outdoor concerts in UK history. Two and a half million people applied for tickets for their two shows. In the UK, they had eight #1 singles and every album they made went to #1 in the charts.

As good as The Beatles? Of course not. But what they managed to achieve in the 90s was not achieved by many other bands and their cultural importance was vast.

The difference here is that if Noel had maturity and class he would say something like "I've never personally liked Brian Wilson's music but it's obvious that it's had a great effect of many people and they love it, but it's just not for me". That's essentially what you just did in your previous comment about Shakespeare and Tolstoy and yet you're defending a guy with such juvenile sensibilities that he would probably tell you you're an idiot to your face for being here.

If Noel was 19 years old I'd give him a pass, but at his venerable age he should have some level of decorum. It comes with maturity.

I'm not sure if you read the website I linked to but it contains quotes by some of the most sophisticated and important writers in Western history saying things like the following:

"[Ulysses] is a revolting record of a disgusting phase of civilisation" - George Bernard Shaw

"[Ulysses is] the work of a queasy undergraduate scratching his pimples." - Viriginia Woolf

"I am reading Proust for the first time. Very poor stuff. I think he was mentally defective." - Evelyn Waugh

And on and on and on.

I'm sorry that you don't particularly care for the rhetoric and that's fine but the reality is that Noel is simply joining the pantheon of some of the greatest and most sophisticated writers of all time by deploying language the way he is. Personally, I don't think Shaw, Woolf, and Waugh are idiots but they themselves were not above using phrasing like that about their colleagues.

Poor argument. "Hey, these other greats did it too so Noel is joining this illustrious pantheon...!" Ugh.







  
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2017, 04:44:07 PM »


I get that people are entitled to their opinion, but that said... it's obvious these guys hold themselves in super high esteem, comparing themselves to The Beatles, etc. Nobody who's not out of their mind on an ego trip would ever do that kind of comparison. That's not an irrelevant thing to consider in this equation.

Nor is it irrelevant to consider that they were a reaction against conservative Thatcher rule in the 1980s which saw a huge demonization of the working class. The Oasis ethos was about being proud and unapologetic of your working class roots; it was a reaction against being told for a decade that your sort of people were less-than-human garbage. When Oasis told people they were "better than" this or "as good" as that, it was a purposeful affront to people who looked upon this culture with contempt.

Moreover, when they were saying these things, they had made one album which was, at the time, the fastest selling debut in UK history and went on to be voted by readers in the #1 music magazine over ten years later as the greatest album of all time. Their second album was one of the biggest selling albums of all time, went on to become the UK's fifth best selling album of all time, and was recently named by the most significant British music awards as the greatest British album since 1980.

They headlines the largest outdoor concerts in UK history. Two and a half million people applied for tickets for their two shows. In the UK, they had eight #1 singles and every album they made went to #1 in the charts.

As good as The Beatles? Of course not. But what they managed to achieve in the 90s was not achieved by many other bands and their cultural importance was vast.

The difference here is that if Noel had maturity and class he would say something like "I've never personally liked Brian Wilson's music but it's obvious that it's had a great effect of many people and they love it, but it's just not for me". That's essentially what you just did in your previous comment about Shakespeare and Tolstoy and yet you're defending a guy with such juvenile sensibilities that he would probably tell you you're an idiot to your face for being here.

If Noel was 19 years old I'd give him a pass, but at his venerable age he should have some level of decorum. It comes with maturity.

I'm not sure if you read the website I linked to but it contains quotes by some of the most sophisticated and important writers in Western history saying things like the following:

"[Ulysses] is a revolting record of a disgusting phase of civilisation" - George Bernard Shaw

"[Ulysses is] the work of a queasy undergraduate scratching his pimples." - Viriginia Woolf

"I am reading Proust for the first time. Very poor stuff. I think he was mentally defective." - Evelyn Waugh

And on and on and on.

I'm sorry that you don't particularly care for the rhetoric and that's fine but the reality is that Noel is simply joining the pantheon of some of the greatest and most sophisticated writers of all time by deploying language the way he is. Personally, I don't think Shaw, Woolf, and Waugh are idiots but they themselves were not above using phrasing like that about their colleagues.

Poor argument. "Hey, these other greats did it too so Noel is joining this illustrious pantheon...!" Ugh.
 

The only thing this argument proves is that there are/have been a lot of rude narcissists with self-esteem issues in the arts. Even if they are/were very talented themselves. No big news flash there.
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2017, 04:55:26 PM »


I get that people are entitled to their opinion, but that said... it's obvious these guys hold themselves in super high esteem, comparing themselves to The Beatles, etc. Nobody who's not out of their mind on an ego trip would ever do that kind of comparison. That's not an irrelevant thing to consider in this equation.

Nor is it irrelevant to consider that they were a reaction against conservative Thatcher rule in the 1980s which saw a huge demonization of the working class. The Oasis ethos was about being proud and unapologetic of your working class roots; it was a reaction against being told for a decade that your sort of people were less-than-human garbage. When Oasis told people they were "better than" this or "as good" as that, it was a purposeful affront to people who looked upon this culture with contempt.

Moreover, when they were saying these things, they had made one album which was, at the time, the fastest selling debut in UK history and went on to be voted by readers in the #1 music magazine over ten years later as the greatest album of all time. Their second album was one of the biggest selling albums of all time, went on to become the UK's fifth best selling album of all time, and was recently named by the most significant British music awards as the greatest British album since 1980.

They headlines the largest outdoor concerts in UK history. Two and a half million people applied for tickets for their two shows. In the UK, they had eight #1 singles and every album they made went to #1 in the charts.

As good as The Beatles? Of course not. But what they managed to achieve in the 90s was not achieved by many other bands and their cultural importance was vast.

The difference here is that if Noel had maturity and class he would say something like "I've never personally liked Brian Wilson's music but it's obvious that it's had a great effect of many people and they love it, but it's just not for me". That's essentially what you just did in your previous comment about Shakespeare and Tolstoy and yet you're defending a guy with such juvenile sensibilities that he would probably tell you you're an idiot to your face for being here.

If Noel was 19 years old I'd give him a pass, but at his venerable age he should have some level of decorum. It comes with maturity.

I'm not sure if you read the website I linked to but it contains quotes by some of the most sophisticated and important writers in Western history saying things like the following:

"[Ulysses] is a revolting record of a disgusting phase of civilisation" - George Bernard Shaw

"[Ulysses is] the work of a queasy undergraduate scratching his pimples." - Viriginia Woolf

"I am reading Proust for the first time. Very poor stuff. I think he was mentally defective." - Evelyn Waugh

And on and on and on.

I'm sorry that you don't particularly care for the rhetoric and that's fine but the reality is that Noel is simply joining the pantheon of some of the greatest and most sophisticated writers of all time by deploying language the way he is. Personally, I don't think Shaw, Woolf, and Waugh are idiots but they themselves were not above using phrasing like that about their colleagues.

Poor argument. "Hey, these other greats did it too so Noel is joining this illustrious pantheon...!" Ugh.

Well, your quote happens to be exactly true. These other great did do it. They constitute an illustrious pantheon. And Noel does join them in that respect.

I'm not making any argument other than to say that he doesn't like Brian's music. I'm sorry that you don't like the way he expresses that.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 04:59:02 PM by Chocolate Shake Man » Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2017, 04:56:03 PM »


I get that people are entitled to their opinion, but that said... it's obvious these guys hold themselves in super high esteem, comparing themselves to The Beatles, etc. Nobody who's not out of their mind on an ego trip would ever do that kind of comparison. That's not an irrelevant thing to consider in this equation.

Nor is it irrelevant to consider that they were a reaction against conservative Thatcher rule in the 1980s which saw a huge demonization of the working class. The Oasis ethos was about being proud and unapologetic of your working class roots; it was a reaction against being told for a decade that your sort of people were less-than-human garbage. When Oasis told people they were "better than" this or "as good" as that, it was a purposeful affront to people who looked upon this culture with contempt.

Moreover, when they were saying these things, they had made one album which was, at the time, the fastest selling debut in UK history and went on to be voted by readers in the #1 music magazine over ten years later as the greatest album of all time. Their second album was one of the biggest selling albums of all time, went on to become the UK's fifth best selling album of all time, and was recently named by the most significant British music awards as the greatest British album since 1980.

They headlines the largest outdoor concerts in UK history. Two and a half million people applied for tickets for their two shows. In the UK, they had eight #1 singles and every album they made went to #1 in the charts.

As good as The Beatles? Of course not. But what they managed to achieve in the 90s was not achieved by many other bands and their cultural importance was vast.

The difference here is that if Noel had maturity and class he would say something like "I've never personally liked Brian Wilson's music but it's obvious that it's had a great effect of many people and they love it, but it's just not for me". That's essentially what you just did in your previous comment about Shakespeare and Tolstoy and yet you're defending a guy with such juvenile sensibilities that he would probably tell you you're an idiot to your face for being here.

If Noel was 19 years old I'd give him a pass, but at his venerable age he should have some level of decorum. It comes with maturity.

I'm not sure if you read the website I linked to but it contains quotes by some of the most sophisticated and important writers in Western history saying things like the following:

"[Ulysses] is a revolting record of a disgusting phase of civilisation" - George Bernard Shaw

"[Ulysses is] the work of a queasy undergraduate scratching his pimples." - Viriginia Woolf

"I am reading Proust for the first time. Very poor stuff. I think he was mentally defective." - Evelyn Waugh

And on and on and on.

I'm sorry that you don't particularly care for the rhetoric and that's fine but the reality is that Noel is simply joining the pantheon of some of the greatest and most sophisticated writers of all time by deploying language the way he is. Personally, I don't think Shaw, Woolf, and Waugh are idiots but they themselves were not above using phrasing like that about their colleagues.

Poor argument. "Hey, these other greats did it too so Noel is joining this illustrious pantheon...!" Ugh.
 

The only thing this argument proves is that there are/have been a lot of rude narcissists with self-esteem issues in the arts. Even if they are/were very talented themselves. No big news flash there.

And I suppose OSD joins them too?
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GhostyTMRS
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« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2017, 04:57:55 PM »


I get that people are entitled to their opinion, but that said... it's obvious these guys hold themselves in super high esteem, comparing themselves to The Beatles, etc. Nobody who's not out of their mind on an ego trip would ever do that kind of comparison. That's not an irrelevant thing to consider in this equation.

Nor is it irrelevant to consider that they were a reaction against conservative Thatcher rule in the 1980s which saw a huge demonization of the working class. The Oasis ethos was about being proud and unapologetic of your working class roots; it was a reaction against being told for a decade that your sort of people were less-than-human garbage. When Oasis told people they were "better than" this or "as good" as that, it was a purposeful affront to people who looked upon this culture with contempt.

Moreover, when they were saying these things, they had made one album which was, at the time, the fastest selling debut in UK history and went on to be voted by readers in the #1 music magazine over ten years later as the greatest album of all time. Their second album was one of the biggest selling albums of all time, went on to become the UK's fifth best selling album of all time, and was recently named by the most significant British music awards as the greatest British album since 1980.

They headlines the largest outdoor concerts in UK history. Two and a half million people applied for tickets for their two shows. In the UK, they had eight #1 singles and every album they made went to #1 in the charts.

As good as The Beatles? Of course not. But what they managed to achieve in the 90s was not achieved by many other bands and their cultural importance was vast.

The difference here is that if Noel had maturity and class he would say something like "I've never personally liked Brian Wilson's music but it's obvious that it's had a great effect of many people and they love it, but it's just not for me". That's essentially what you just did in your previous comment about Shakespeare and Tolstoy and yet you're defending a guy with such juvenile sensibilities that he would probably tell you you're an idiot to your face for being here.

If Noel was 19 years old I'd give him a pass, but at his venerable age he should have some level of decorum. It comes with maturity.

I'm not sure if you read the website I linked to but it contains quotes by some of the most sophisticated and important writers in Western history saying things like the following:

"[Ulysses] is a revolting record of a disgusting phase of civilisation" - George Bernard Shaw

"[Ulysses is] the work of a queasy undergraduate scratching his pimples." - Viriginia Woolf

"I am reading Proust for the first time. Very poor stuff. I think he was mentally defective." - Evelyn Waugh

And on and on and on.

I'm sorry that you don't particularly care for the rhetoric and that's fine but the reality is that Noel is simply joining the pantheon of some of the greatest and most sophisticated writers of all time by deploying language the way he is. Personally, I don't think Shaw, Woolf, and Waugh are idiots but they themselves were not above using phrasing like that about their colleagues.

Poor argument. "Hey, these other greats did it too so Noel is joining this illustrious pantheon...!" Ugh.

Well, your quote happens to be exactly true. These other great did do it. They constitute an illustrious pantheon. And Noel does join them in that respect.

It's not necessarily something to be proud of. A lot of "greats" have done truly despicable things. Hardly what I would call an illustrious pantheon. More like a Rogue's Gallery.
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2017, 04:59:57 PM »

Virginia Woolf, George Bernard Shaw, and Evelyn Waugh are a rogue's gallery?

Would you seriously call this despicable?
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