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621098 Posts in 24988 Topics by 3550 Members - Latest Member: SunshineOverClouds November 24, 2017, 09:28:48 PM
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Author Topic: Sunshine Tomorrow She's Going Bald?  (Read 1917 times)
HeyJude
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« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2017, 06:57:09 AM »

Yeah I don't have a lot of faith but they'd be crazy to not put out stereo mixes of the other Smile stuff that can be in stereo but hasn't been released digitally yet, it's practically the only thing I can imagine non-hardcore fans would actually care about and want to pay money for

I don't think that's an accurate assessment of the potential marketplace (both hardcore and casual fans). "Smile" is out there in a five-disc and two-disc configuration. Anybody that wants to discover it can do just that. Non-hardcore fans don't care about stereo remixes of (relatively) obscure archival material.

There are *numerous* presentations of unreleased BB music that could garner plenty of attention from "non-hardcore" fans. Archival BB stuff is never going to go to #1, but it can be presented well and build some good PR and buzz. A set of Brian-centric demos/outtakes (a "Bedroom Tapes" release even if the moniker is something of a misnomer) would do that. A "Sunflower" boxed set. A live career-spanning boxed set. An online download hub for the archives.

I'd actually argue BRI and Capitol are straining even the *hardcore* fan base by retreading stuff like "Pet Sounds" over and over. So I think a "Smile" retread (and let's be clear, nobody here doesn't want more stereo mixes of "Smile" material; the issue is that it's all about priorities) would disappoint and frustrate hardcore fans and not be of much interest to non-hardcore fans.
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2017, 07:38:55 AM »

Yeah I don't have a lot of faith but they'd be crazy to not put out stereo mixes of the other Smile stuff that can be in stereo but hasn't been released digitally yet, it's practically the only thing I can imagine non-hardcore fans would actually care about and want to pay money for

I don't think that's an accurate assessment of the potential marketplace (both hardcore and casual fans). "Smile" is out there in a five-disc and two-disc configuration. Anybody that wants to discover it can do just that. Non-hardcore fans don't care about stereo remixes of (relatively) obscure archival material.

There are *numerous* presentations of unreleased BB music that could garner plenty of attention from "non-hardcore" fans. Archival BB stuff is never going to go to #1, but it can be presented well and build some good PR and buzz. A set of Brian-centric demos/outtakes (a "Bedroom Tapes" release even if the moniker is something of a misnomer) would do that. A "Sunflower" boxed set. A live career-spanning boxed set. An online download hub for the archives.

I'd actually argue BRI and Capitol are straining even the *hardcore* fan base by retreading stuff like "Pet Sounds" over and over. So I think a "Smile" retread (and let's be clear, nobody here doesn't want more stereo mixes of "Smile" material; the issue is that it's all about priorities) would disappoint and frustrate hardcore fans and not be of much interest to non-hardcore fans.

Oh yeah, totally agree with that, I was just talking in terms of '66/'67 material that's still left for whatever the December copyright extension release is. I'd personally rather have archival sets for all the other albums first and they'd probably get a lot more attention. I only meant on a scale of: Public interest for remaining Smile material in stereo > Hawaii live shows and Sunshine Tomorrow outtakes etc.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 07:42:09 AM by wjcrerar » Logged
Bicyclerider
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« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2017, 12:12:09 PM »

These digital only archive releases are tailor made for collecting odds and ends like SMile mixes and sessions not on the box set - these things usually only appeal to the hard core fans and what hard core fan worthy of the name wouldn't want unreleased Smile stuff?  It's a no brainer.
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terrei
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« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2017, 09:56:03 PM »

And you would argue that commenters on YouTube videos are a likely market for archival releases of Beach Boys sessions?

Commentors on YouTube videos = average fans = people who won't buy new Beach Boys product unless there's something of substance = enjoy stereo remix of The Smile Sessions, Paley sessions, expanded editions of various albums, and more that will ultimately attract new fans (Alan Boyd can attest for that re: Sunshine Tomorrow)

People who buy new Beach Boys product no matter what = obsessed fans = the majority of the ~150 active users on this forum / a chunk of the audience at a Brian Wilson concert = enjoy another reissue of Pet Sounds
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 09:58:09 PM by terrei » Logged
wjcrerar
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« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2017, 05:18:19 AM »

^^^^^ exactly this!

Also worth nothing that when new fans are introduced to the band nowadays, the common entry point is something along the lines of Pet Sounds > Love and Mercy film > Smile Sessions/BWPS. That's how it was for me and a lot of others. Smile hasn't been on the level of 'obscure archive material' for a long time, it's their other most significant piece of work. And parts of it are still unavailable, or only out there in a mono format that doesn't cater to modern listeners (I know a lot can't be true stereo but the majority can), or in a configuration that mimics the 2004 live performance and doesn't necessarily represent the original intent for a lot of the songs. TSS is fantastic but if Pet Sounds can have 8000 anniversary reissues there's still a lot of room for unreleased Smile stuff to come out.
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HeyJude
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« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2017, 06:59:09 AM »

And you would argue that commenters on YouTube videos are a likely market for archival releases of Beach Boys sessions?

Commentors on YouTube videos = average fans = people who won't buy new Beach Boys product unless there's something of substance = enjoy stereo remix of The Smile Sessions, Paley sessions, expanded editions of various albums, and more that will ultimately attract new fans (Alan Boyd can attest for that re: Sunshine Tomorrow)

People who buy new Beach Boys product no matter what = obsessed fans = the majority of the ~150 active users on this forum / a chunk of the audience at a Brian Wilson concert = enjoy another reissue of Pet Sounds

I would disagree on YouTube, and I would also say your analysis of who buys what is debatably partially flipped.

Most Commenters on YouTube videos = Trolls and other assorted people who listen to and download stuff from YouTube instead of ever buying product, non-fans who wouldn't know the difference between a "Smile" stereo mix and a Foghat outtake. And that's the kind/polite, benefit-of-the-doubt characterization. That's not getting into the myriad of people who have little to no interest in what they're commenting on, and are just posting vile, negative, ignorant comments because that's apparently what the YouTube comments section is for.

As for "casual fans", they're the fans that buy hits compilations and, if we're all lucky, a properly presented and marketed set like "Sunshine Tomorrow." What "casual fans" don't care about is a selection of the same stuff already released on "The Smile Sessions", only in stereo remix form. Casual fans don't buy "odds and ends" outtake sets.

The hardcore fans on *this* board don't buy product "no matter what." Sets that don't offer something *new* are usually ignored. The "Pet Sounds" boxed set last year went largely ignored here precisely because people on this board knew it was mostly a retread of the '96/'97 boxed set.
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HeyJude
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« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2017, 07:12:20 AM »

^^^^^ exactly this!

Also worth nothing that when new fans are introduced to the band nowadays, the common entry point is something along the lines of Pet Sounds > Love and Mercy film > Smile Sessions/BWPS. That's how it was for me and a lot of others. Smile hasn't been on the level of 'obscure archive material' for a long time, it's their other most significant piece of work. And parts of it are still unavailable, or only out there in a mono format that doesn't cater to modern listeners (I know a lot can't be true stereo but the majority can), or in a configuration that mimics the 2004 live performance and doesn't necessarily represent the original intent for a lot of the songs. TSS is fantastic but if Pet Sounds can have 8000 anniversary reissues there's still a lot of room for unreleased Smile stuff to come out.

Additional "Smile" addendums will mean nothing other than to dedicated, hardcore fans. For new fans who get into PS and then "Smile", the *FIVE DISC* "Smile Sessions" boxed set is probably more than enough. Most fans that fall under that description are probably fine with the 2-disc "Smile."

Among those casual-but-deeply-interested type of fans, nobody cares that a bunch of the "Smile Sessions" tracks are in mono. The set won a Grammy, and I don't recall many if any critics/reviewers deeply criticizing the lack of more stereo mixes on the set.

"Do You Like Worms" sounds like sludge in mono or stereo.

A copyright extension set for 1967 would be a fine place for more "Smile" mixes, and obviously *I* would buy a "Smile Sessions Addendum" set. But I wouldn't really advocate for a wide, huge release to the masses of that stuff. Or rather, I wouldn't prioritize that. The "milking it to death" model for releasing "Pet Sounds" retrospectives every ten minutes isn't something I'd want them to follow for anything else in the catalog.

The "wide release" projects they should be targeting is stuff like a "Brother Years" set highlighting the *albums and albums* worth of totally-unheard material, a 70s Brian-centric set with demos, etc., deluxe sets for things like "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up", a great "Live" boxed set, and so on.
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« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2017, 07:32:43 AM »

I think people who listen to music attentively enough to care about mono vs stereo mixes represent a small set of listeners.

Edit: Oh, and looking forward to this...
I thought there was a stereo release of Wild Honey already as well. This is not so much a complaint. I really like this release. Just seemed odd that She’s Going Bald was the only song from Smiley not touched as far as I can tell.

stay tuned
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 07:43:16 AM by B.E. » Logged
wjcrerar
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« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2017, 02:18:42 PM »

^^^^^ exactly this!

Also worth nothing that when new fans are introduced to the band nowadays, the common entry point is something along the lines of Pet Sounds > Love and Mercy film > Smile Sessions/BWPS. That's how it was for me and a lot of others. Smile hasn't been on the level of 'obscure archive material' for a long time, it's their other most significant piece of work. And parts of it are still unavailable, or only out there in a mono format that doesn't cater to modern listeners (I know a lot can't be true stereo but the majority can), or in a configuration that mimics the 2004 live performance and doesn't necessarily represent the original intent for a lot of the songs. TSS is fantastic but if Pet Sounds can have 8000 anniversary reissues there's still a lot of room for unreleased Smile stuff to come out.

Additional "Smile" addendums will mean nothing other than to dedicated, hardcore fans. For new fans who get into PS and then "Smile", the *FIVE DISC* "Smile Sessions" boxed set is probably more than enough. Most fans that fall under that description are probably fine with the 2-disc "Smile."

Among those casual-but-deeply-interested type of fans, nobody cares that a bunch of the "Smile Sessions" tracks are in mono. The set won a Grammy, and I don't recall many if any critics/reviewers deeply criticizing the lack of more stereo mixes on the set.

"Do You Like Worms" sounds like sludge in mono or stereo.

A copyright extension set for 1967 would be a fine place for more "Smile" mixes, and obviously *I* would buy a "Smile Sessions Addendum" set. But I wouldn't really advocate for a wide, huge release to the masses of that stuff. Or rather, I wouldn't prioritize that. The "milking it to death" model for releasing "Pet Sounds" retrospectives every ten minutes isn't something I'd want them to follow for anything else in the catalog.

The "wide release" projects they should be targeting is stuff like a "Brother Years" set highlighting the *albums and albums* worth of totally-unheard material, a 70s Brian-centric set with demos, etc., deluxe sets for things like "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up", a great "Live" boxed set, and so on.

Wait, I was literally talking about the copyright extension release being an ideal place for more Smile material, how did we get onto another big release for them? Using the Pet Sounds reissues as an example wasn't like, "hey there should also be 432 rereleases of the Smile Sessions in the next 10 yrs", it was, "if Pet Sounds can get all these deluxe versions surely the other Smile extras + stereo mixes deserve to be on one of the copyright extension releases where it'd be the incredibly obvious place to release them?" I'd be against the idea of a pointless 2nd boxset in the future, unless some of the missing tapes magically showed up and it was possible to pair the album down into a mostly-complete 12 track sequence approved by Brian in both mono and full stereo. But since that's likely never gonna happen not using the copyright deadlines as an excuse to get the rest out there feels like a missed opportunity.

Also, DYLW sounds like sludge in mono but how'dya know it sounds like sludge in stereo? The only reference we've got is the instrumental master takes on the sessions which are all noticeably more muddy and bottom-heavy than any of the official stereo mixes. Compare the H&V Prelude to Fade tracking session version to when it shows up in the H&V stereo mix. Might be surprised if it's ever given the proper treatment.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 02:21:44 PM by wjcrerar » Logged
Ram4
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« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2017, 04:12:39 PM »

I still would like a digital only set for 1965 like we had for 1964.  We still have half of the Today sessions to go and SDSN sessions + Chicago 1965 that could be included.
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