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621100 Posts in 24988 Topics by 3550 Members - Latest Member: SunshineOverClouds November 24, 2017, 09:33:46 PM
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Author Topic: Help Please! Some Smile questions  (Read 1066 times)
Hickory Violet Part IV
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« on: October 17, 2017, 02:29:10 AM »

I'm doing a masters at the moment, and am getting a short presentation about the myth of Smile together.

Now I have all my books out, and I'm desperate to find where the idea first surfaced that Smile was to be edited together with no banding, i.e, no gaps between cuts. The earlist mention I can find is in the Todd Gold book, not the most reliable of sources.

"The whole album is going to be a far out trip through the old west. Real Americana. But with lots of intersting humour. There's even going to be talking and laughing between cuts"


My memory is not what it is. I'm sure prior to 91, it was generally accepted that Smile was going to be edited into a continous 2 sided work. This of course was reflected in the 2004 performance  and subsequent recording . Does this idea date back to Look Listen Vibrate Smile? I dont have this book at to hand at present.

My main objective is to show how the mythology possibly influenced Wilson, Parks and Sahanaja in 2004 when assembling Smile for performance.

I'm also tryjng to chase up the VDP quote about Smile being originally envisaged as a conventional 12 track album with banding.


By the way, if this thread turns into a discussion about the banding / no banding issue, I'm happy with that, as it's always an interesting subject. My main priority though is chasing down these quotes / ideas to their original source.

Can anyone help?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 02:34:02 AM by Hickory Violet Part IV » Logged
MrRobinsonsFather
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2017, 03:22:23 AM »

Maybe check out some of Vosse’s writings. Not really sure when it was first mentioned that songs would blend into one another.
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Hickory Violet Part IV
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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2017, 08:33:58 AM »

Thanks,  but can't find it in anything attributed to Vosse.

Can anyone help wit the VDP quote, where he said Smile was intended as a traditional 12 track album?
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JK
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« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2017, 09:09:31 AM »

Can anyone help wit the VDP quote, where he said Smile was intended as a traditional 12 track album?

I'll look around later. You never know.
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JK
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« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2017, 12:09:50 PM »

Thanks,  but can't find it in anything attributed to Vosse.

Have you see the scan in this topic? It may or may not be relevant:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=17157.0

There's also this, posted by AGD on July 18, 2006:

"The person I asked about how Smile----the original, 1966 version, just to make this totally clear----was going to be structured was Van Dyke Parks, and his reply was that it was going to be a single disc of banded (i.e seperate) tracks with no segues and crossfades between them. He then added that the only crossfades and/or segues were going to be within one track, and that track was "The Elements". He also denied that "H&V" was in any way concerned with Viet Nam.
"This exchange took place five, six years ago."

Source: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=2325.0 [page 8, reply #195]
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 12:43:44 PM by JK » Logged

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Hickory Violet Part IV
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« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2017, 02:31:23 PM »

Thank you. Brilliant. I shall peruse that now.
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JK
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2017, 03:22:16 AM »

HV, have you seen this? Not sure how useful it is but you never know (said that before):

https://books.google.nl/books?id=QH9_CgAAQBAJ
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Bicyclerider
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2017, 05:31:42 AM »

I believe the source of the theory that there was to be no silence between tracks but instead there would be "linking tracks" was none other than Dominic Priore.  Check out LLVS.  As Smile material began surfacing, there were lots of short pieces of music that did not clearly belong to a particular song on the 12 track list - Heroes related chants (Part 2 variations), Barnyard, the January 3rd Heroes sessions, the intro to Heroes, Dada, etc.  Since Dominic's preconceived bias was that the album was finished (and he claimed there was a final mixing session in April 67 which was cancelled), then he needed to find a place for all these fragments and so they became "link tracks" and the songs would go immediately from one to another with no silence between tracks.
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2017, 06:13:03 AM »

I appreciate Domenic Priore for what he's done to keep the Smile legend alive over the years but the validity of his theories can basically be neatly summed up by him at the end of LLVS attributing the lyric "The children's song, and the message that they play / The song is love, and the children know the way" to 'Brian Wilson & Van Dyke Parks - 1966'. Which...I don't even...what. Where do you start with that
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 06:14:49 AM by wjcrerar » Logged
jiggy22
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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2017, 11:28:37 AM »

I appreciate Domenic Priore for what he's done to keep the Smile legend alive over the years but the validity of his theories can basically be neatly summed up by him at the end of LLVS attributing the lyric "The children's song, and the message that they play / The song is love, and the children know the way" to 'Brian Wilson & Van Dyke Parks - 1966'. Which...I don't even...what. Where do you start with that

I've also noticed in almost every interview he's given in the past regarding Smile, he always mentions "Cool Cool Water" as being a contender for the album. Which as we all know, certainly wasn't.
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2017, 12:31:58 PM »

I appreciate Domenic Priore for what he's done to keep the Smile legend alive over the years but the validity of his theories can basically be neatly summed up by him at the end of LLVS attributing the lyric "The children's song, and the message that they play / The song is love, and the children know the way" to 'Brian Wilson & Van Dyke Parks - 1966'. Which...I don't even...what. Where do you start with that

I've also noticed in almost every interview he's given in the past regarding Smile, he always mentions "Cool Cool Water" as being a contender for the album. Which as we all know, certainly wasn't.

Exactly, I guess there's technically an argument for calling Cool Cool Water the finished version of Love to Say Dada but he talks about it as if the song on Sunflower is actually from the Smile sessions. I got LLVS a few months ago, and it's a great resource, but the stuff Priore actually writes about the music himself is bizarre. Like, he tries to pass off all these clearly very unfinished songs without vocals like Worms as done and misquotes stacks of lyrics that he could literally just find out by actually listening to without even concentrating too hard. No, Child is Father of the Man wasn't abandoned, it just has no lyrics because it's really far out!! There was definitely a cancelled mixing session for the whole Smile album on May 19th when the people contracted to be there included Hal Blaine and most of the songs didn't have lead vocals!!

And then when he's describing Heroes and Villains out of nowhere he starts going on this fucking weird slightly uncomfortable ramble about his interpretation of the Cantina section. Actual quote:

"Now the song goes into a major shift in tempo, a sort of waltz-time, flavoured with various emotional shades of dancing grace. The girl's name is Margaritte, and she dances in front of the big shots, the important businessmen of the town as they laugh and taunt her (we hear this in the background). These hot shots who are keeping the narrator unknown, lost and gone are salivating over this dancer. There is not one of them who wouldn't jump at the chance to have this luscious beauty. They're all clamouring over her...how is it that these men of such power are so weak beneath the spell of Margaritte? They are fools in her presence, yet she'd pay no mind to them. Their gross greed and uproarious desire can never sit comfortable with this amazing woman. She holds power over all their heads in her beautiful simplicity, and it is the down-trodden narrator that has the privilege of her desires. It is his magic which Margaritte is enamoured with."

wtf is this
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 01:20:44 PM by wjcrerar » Logged
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