Mike's continuing beef with Al

[Eric Aniversario]

"Lawsuits aside, Beach Boys still have fun, fun, fun"

http://www2.townonline.com/weymouth/artsLifestyle/view.bg?articleid=551357

Some interesting things in this article.  It kind of confirms what I observed through the pictures of the rooftop "reunion"...that when it comes to Brian, Mike is very positive, but he wants to have nothing to do with Al. 

Did anyone else notice this in all the pictures of the rooftop reunion?  All the reports of people who were there seemed to reflect an overall positive vibe, but I believe that they were just being civil, rather than positive.  Mike seemed to be smiling only when he was interacting with Brian.  When he was pictured next to Al, his body language seemed to indicate some negativity, if not hostility.  For further consideration into this matter, watch this video of Mike Love on Don Imus this past month.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vdHSrLPjQ_g

He mentions that nobody threw anybody off the roof, but that he considered it.  Immediately afterward, he mentions that Brian was cool.  Who does this leave?  He definitely wouldn't be referring to Bruce.  Perhaps David, but probably not.  He still seems to be harboring some resentment toward Al.

I think that it's sad, as I think that Al is genuine in his desire to be part of a reunion, and to put everything in the past.  It's funny that Al has a reputation for holding grudges, but it appears that this has changed, and that Mike is now the grudge-holder.

I really would like to see all the guys bury all the hatchets and genuinely get along again, as unlikely as that may seem.

Any thoughts?

[Shady]

Well said,

He also would not hear all when he was trying to get a word in during the interview on top capitol records, It was hard to watch poor Al trying to talk

[Zander]

I don't Mike was refering to Al, he was refering to the Captiol employee that asked David Marks to stand out of the frame for some of the pictures as he didn't consider him a Beach Boy.

Remember, Mike does have an on going law suit with Brian. So why would he be nice with one and not the other? After all, Al was a strong  supporter of "Team Love" in the '70's. Also note, Bruce wasn't hostile with Al...

Brian has had more success with Smile etc, so why would Mike want to fraternise with Al, the least successful member commercially? I'm probably wrong but..

[Custom Machine]

What, specifically, are Mike's issues with Al?  I recall reading a number of years ago where Mike said that Al had to "get over his anger."  What was he referring to when he made that statement?

[matt-zeus]

Anger at having to keep the summer alive.

[smile-holland]

did anyone notice the "Ads by Google", right under the article on page 1?
Especially the first one (Attorney lawyer network) is very appropriate ! 

[Charles LePage @ ComicList]

Sorry-- that wasn't meant for this board-- and it's been promptly corrected.  Carry on!

[Cam Mott]

I'm sure that as soon as they can dig Al's hatchets out of their backs they will follow Al's advice to bury them.

[matt-zeus]

Apparently, Mike said to Al "Join me, and together we can rule this galaxy as father and son"

[Rocker]

I don't Mike was refering to Al, he was refering to the Captiol employee that asked David Marks to stand out of the frame for some of the pictures as he didn't consider him a Beach Boy.

That's right. It was mentioned that Al, Mike and Bruce threatened to throw that guy off of the roof for not including Dave in the picture.

[Carrie Marks]

That's right. It was mentioned that Al, Mike and Bruce threatened to throw that guy off of the roof for not including Dave in the picture.

Someone  teased and/or speculated about that being the reason for Mike's comment because of Bruce's post about the exec not knowing who David was, but Mike did not threaten to throw a guy off the tower because he didn't include David in a photo. 

What did happen was: after all the photos were snapped a suit asked David to step out of the line so they could do a promo shot just to promote the Pet Sounds anniversary.  Mike, Al and Bruce noticed David was not there and told him to get back up there because he's "one of them."  It was very nice, great actually, to see them defend David like that and make such a public statement about his inclusion, but there was no plot to murder the VP of catalog marketing over David being asked "not to participate" in the Pet Sounds photo.

However, Mike did once save David's life by grabbing Dave's ankle and pulling him to safty as he headed off the side of a hotel in Hawaii back in '63. 

[Jon Stebbins]

"Lawsuits aside, Beach Boys still have fun, fun, fun"

http://www2.townonline.com/weymouth/artsLifestyle/view.bg?articleid=551357

Some interesting things in this article.  It kind of confirms what I observed through the pictures of the rooftop "reunion"...that when it comes to Brian, Mike is very positive, but he wants to have nothing to do with Al. 

Did anyone else notice this in all the pictures of the rooftop reunion?  All the reports of people who were there seemed to reflect an overall positive vibe, but I believe that they were just being civil, rather than positive.  Mike seemed to be smiling only when he was interacting with Brian.  When he was pictured next to Al, his body language seemed to indicate some negativity, if not hostility.  For further consideration into this matter, watch this video of Mike Love on Don Imus this past month.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vdHSrLPjQ_g

He mentions that nobody threw anybody off the roof, but that he considered it.  Immediately afterward, he mentions that Brian was cool.  Who does this leave?  He definitely wouldn't be referring to Bruce.  Perhaps David, but probably not.  He still seems to be harboring some resentment toward Al.

I think that it's sad, as I think that Al is genuine in his desire to be part of a reunion, and to put everything in the past.  It's funny that Al has a reputation for holding grudges, but it appears that this has changed, and that Mike is now the grudge-holder.

I really would like to see all the guys bury all the hatchets and genuinely get along again, as unlikely as that may seem.

Any thoughts?

I was there Eric and I can say without a doubt they were far beyond being "civil". I've been around the BB's many times since the seventies and this was probably the warmest way I've ever seen them interact. Especially Brian, Mike and David...they were obviously enjoying each others company in a way that had nothing to do with the cameras etc... Bruce and Al were doing their share of joining in too...Brian and Bruce were doing a lot of chatting up there. Perhaps Mike and Al's interactions were not quite to the "fun" level of the rest, but warmer than I ever might have expected.

[Peter Ames Carlin]

What I think is a real bummer about the way Mike talks about Brian is his reflexive way of belittling and infantalizing him. e.g., Brian is being manipulated against his wishes, which is why we're not working together. As if Brian's deepest desire is to be forever partnered with Mike Love. Which doesn't seem true to me for so many reasons, not the least of them being how happy and productive Brian has seemed in the last decade or so.  Say what you will about the quality of "Imagination" or "Gettin' In Over My Head" the XMAS album or even "BWPS." But no one can debate that the guy is up and around, more prolific, healthy and engaged in the world as he's been since the mid-60s. The fact that Mike would continue to spin that as a catstrophe, just because he's been dealt out of Brianindustries, seems really sad and wrong. 

[Cam Mott]

What I think is a real bummer about the way Mike talks about Brian is his reflexive way of belittling and infantalizing him. e.g., Brian is being manipulated against his wishes, which is why we're not working together. As if Brian's deepest desire is to be forever partnered with Mike Love. Which doesn't seem true to me for so many reasons, not the least of them being how happy and productive Brian has seemed in the last decade or so.  Say what you will about the quality of "Imagination" or "Gettin' In Over My Head" the XMAS album or even "BWPS." But no one can debate that the guy is up and around, more prolific, healthy and engaged in the world as he's been since the mid-60s. The fact that Mike would continue to spin that as a catstrophe, just because he's been dealt out of Brianindustries, seems really sad and wrong. 

Maybe it's because Brian keeps telling Mike face to face that he wants to work/write with him.

[Jon Stebbins]

What I think is a real bummer about the way Mike talks about Brian is his reflexive way of belittling and infantalizing him. e.g., Brian is being manipulated against his wishes, which is why we're not working together. As if Brian's deepest desire is to be forever partnered with Mike Love. Which doesn't seem true to me for so many reasons, not the least of them being how happy and productive Brian has seemed in the last decade or so.  Say what you will about the quality of "Imagination" or "Gettin' In Over My Head" the XMAS album or even "BWPS." But no one can debate that the guy is up and around, more prolific, healthy and engaged in the world as he's been since the mid-60s. The fact that Mike would continue to spin that as a catstrophe, just because he's been dealt out of Brianindustries, seems really sad and wrong. 

The whole family's interactions and relationships have been disfunctional and sad for nearly half a century. Mike's defensive posture is easier to understand when you go back to '62 and look at the way he, and any outsider (Usher, Jardine, Marks) were being systematically cut out of the BB's pie by Murry, and in very underhanded ways. Murry was constantly pressuring Brian not to give Mike leads, not to give him songwriting credits, I doubt Brian wanted to hear that type of advice. He and Mike's friendship goes back to pre-fame, walking home from church singing Everly's songs etc... That's where they seemed to go on the Capitol roof, to an innocent place that had nothing to do with anything any of us would even have a clue about. I've never, ever been a Mike Love apologist(see Real Beach Boy book for proof)...and I agree he's been a real butthead about tyring to position himself to be more important than he probably is in the reality of the whole BB's scheme. He's certainly never been the most artistically forward thinking individual, and has been a general embarrasment to the BB's in many ways(my opinion). But that he'd end up with a highly defensive, and even aggressive stance regarding Brian, the Beach Boys etc... is easier for me to understand now days. Instead of bending over and taking his screwing like Al, or ejecting like David did, he hung in there and  formulated an aggressive posture, defended his ground and even invaded territory that wasn't rightly his. He's still doing it, he's constantly calculating...he'll never stop. It's got to be because he's convinced on some level if he shuts it off he'll lose. I'm not saying this is acceptable or something to admire, or even tolerate. But I can understand how he got there. There was friction and jealousy from day one. Murry did screw him out of years of songwriting credits, and Mike probably took back more than he deserved. That's a microcosm of the whole thing. And even with that...I think Brian and Mike can STILL go to a place where none of it matters.  I have some old friends like that...we stole each others girlfriends, kicked each others butts, wrecked each others cars, trashed each others houses, stole from each other, and blamed all of our subsequent problems on each other, and vowed never to accept each other on any level again...and STILL if the mood is right we can sit down and laugh our butts off about all of it. Whatever trace of understanding and connection to their discovery that Mike and Brian still share trumps everything else in the moment. Hard to believe it could...but I think it does.

[Dr. Tim]

Another clue to Mike's attitude may be a genuine, deeply realized fear of waking up and finding himself nothing more than a gas-pumper back in Hawthorne, shorn of everything he's worked for and having no prospects.   That doesn't excuse any churlish behavior on anyone's part, of course, and certainly the man has some anger issues too.  I'll defer to the scholars who know better but my impression is that this fear is what motivates him and pushes him out on the road, and to stake out that legacy, before somebody snatches it away from him.  Actually it's a very Russian way of viewing the world (Russians always think some cossack or commissar is going to come along and grab their stuff, that's one reason they eat so quickly - so no one can steal it). 

As for Brian telling Mike they'll work again, that may be what the politically incorrect would call a "Chinese yes" (in that the Chinese consider it impolite to say "no" directly so there's a hundred ways to say yes but mean no).  Not nice, but not unheard of either.  And poor Al - who knows?  Of course all the other emnity and lawsuits are ultimately circular - they're really suing themselves, only not by accident, as the Rutles' Barry Wom did.  Let's hope Jon Stebbins and Carrie Marks are right that there's still a place they can get past all that.

If they do they'd be a leg up on so many of the other 60s and 70s groups who can't stand being near each other these days: Creedence, the Rascals, the Monkees, Guns 'n Roses, the Guess Who, Pink Floyd...

[Sheriff John Stone]

It is hard to feel sorry for Mike Love - he is not a sympathetic figure. But I can feel his frustration in not being able to collaborate with Brian, for what ever the reason is.

With a few exceptions, Mike and Brian's collaborations have been excellent, Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame worthy. The B.Wilson/M.Love credit did/does stand for something - usually a great song. Mike honestly believes that he and Brian can sit down - any time, any place, under any circumstances - and collaborate on something special. Mike has probably believed this since the early/mid 1960's, and it must be terribly frustrating for him to not get that opportunity for many years now, especially when he hears some of Brian's solo albums.

I'd like to see them give it another try. When Brian talked about finally doing his rock & roll album, I thought that would be a good opportunity to give Mike a call...

[Cam Mott]

It seems ironic that Mike has certifiably been undercredited yet accused of claiming too much credit and Brian is telling Mike he wants to work with him while Mike gets criticized/patronized for believing Brian and Al is praised for wanting to bury the hatchets he put in the backs of his bandmates and their heirs.   

[Wilsonista]

Cam, you don't get it and you never will.

[Cam Mott]

Cam, you don't get it and you never will.

Don't?  Well, at least there is hope for me.

Those who won't but think they get it, they're the ones to feel sorry for. 

[Wilsonista]

I think Jon and Peter C have spoken quite eloquently about that subject.


yes, Mike was screwed on some of the songs, but is it not possible that in the process of getting his fair share, he overreached? You know, taking the entire foot instead of the inch?

Brian saying that he wants to work with Mike? The one thing that always ticks me off about Mike and SMiLE (and everything else Brian-related) is that he seems to think that he is the only one who is entitled to work with Brian.  I have to believe that a lot of his resentment stems from that.  You could say that Brian should not lead Mike on like that, but Brian's Brian.  He operates on a wavelength that no one else does. 

As for Al "screwing" his bandmates? I think it's outrageous that Mike, the least important BB, IMO acts like he is absolutely indispensible. Your (and other's I'm finding out) mileage varies.

[endofposts]

I agree to a certain extent, but Brian does seem to have mixed emotions towards Mike.  He's said things against him, of course, but around the time Brian was to perform "Smile" in Britain, he gave an interview in which he said he had tried to call Mike to talk about music and life in general, but Mike had changed his phone number.  Brian seemed really disappointed that he couldn't get in touch with Mike.  I also don't think Mike is out of place in wondering about how much going on in Brian's life is Brian's will or those of people around him.  That's always been so.  Just look at all the stuff that happened around "Imagination" and "GIOMH."  Brian seems happy, yes, but I don't get the idea he always gets what he wants (though maybe he gets what he needs, to paraphrase the Stones).  Whether writing songs with Mike Love in any way solves that problem and gives Brian a sense of fulfillment might be a stretch, yes.

What I think is a real bummer about the way Mike talks about Brian is his reflexive way of belittling and infantalizing him. e.g., Brian is being manipulated against his wishes, which is why we're not working together. As if Brian's deepest desire is to be forever partnered with Mike Love. Which doesn't seem true to me for so many reasons, not the least of them being how happy and productive Brian has seemed in the last decade or so.  Say what you will about the quality of "Imagination" or "Gettin' In Over My Head" the XMAS album or even "BWPS." But no one can debate that the guy is up and around, more prolific, healthy and engaged in the world as he's been since the mid-60s. The fact that Mike would continue to spin that as a catstrophe, just because he's been dealt out of Brianindustries, seems really sad and wrong. 

[Wilsonista]

If Brian got exactly what he wanted, he'd probably do nothing but veg out in front of the tube which is probably not what he needs.

That and birthday cake.

[MBE]

Brian in the last 7 years is creatively somwhat back on his feet, but as I have said before his is not as "with it" as he was even in his most reclusive periods. I blame the Landy meds for it and of course Brian didn't take care of himself at certain points. I don't think the people around him always have his best interests at heart. If Brian wants to work great if not he's earned himself the right to relax. So has Mike and all the others. The point is that Brian had as many hangers on as genuine friends and I think that's true now. His lifestyle may be more stable, and healthy but I think Brian is told what to say about certain things. At the same time I think he just placates whoever and merely keeps his views to himself. Check out the end of Stebbins BBC documentary if you think Brian is in such a great envirement now. Not that it's cold blooded. I think everyone who meets him has some sort of affection for Brian. My girlfriend went to a show with me and said she never saw so much love given to any other performer. Although I disagree with many of his legal and artistic decisions, Mike does loves Brian as much as anyone. Sadly Brian was always the goose with the golden egg and that perverted his relationship with almost everyone he has been and is close to.

[Sheriff John Stone]

The one thing that always ticks me off about Mike and SMiLE (and everything else Brian-related) is that he seems to think that he is the only one who is entitled to work with Brian. 

Rob,
    I recognize, and I hope Mike Love recognizes, what Brian has accomplished with collaborators other than Mike. Pet Sounds and SMiLE are the two best examples of this. But you have to admit that it's hard to ignore what Brian and Mike accomplished also.
    For just this one area - collaborating with Brian - put yourself in Mike's place (I know that's revolting for you ). Can't you at least see Mike's position? I think if I was in Mike's shoes, I would feel a lot like him. When he sees the likes of Eugene Landy, Alexandra Morgan, Joe Thomas, J.D. Souther, Jimmy Buffett, Andy Paley, Steve Kalinich, etc. passing through, he has to resent it. I would.
     It's not that Brian has been composing this exciting new music that requires a sophiticated lyricist or something, although I wish he was. I'm not advocating "Let's go surfin" or "Come on darlin', let's cruise tonight" in 2006, but I'd be interested in what Brian and Mike could come up with.