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Author Topic: Who Played on “Holland”?  (Read 5036 times)
RONDEMON
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« on: September 23, 2017, 02:11:51 PM »

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. I looked on the boards and couldn’t find an answer, but who played on the “Holland” LP? I mean stuff like the pedal steel on “Big Sur” and the synth solo on “Leaving This Town.” Also, a lot of the bass and piano playing is quite good and sounds very un-Beach Boys.
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2017, 02:46:46 PM »

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. I looked on the boards and couldn’t find an answer, but who played on the “Holland” LP? I mean stuff like the pedal steel on “Big Sur” and the synth solo on “Leaving This Town.” Also, a lot of the bass and piano playing is quite good and sounds very un-Beach Boys.

Both the pedal steel on "Big Sur" and the synth solo on "Leaving This Town" were played by Ricky Fataar - the steel guitar on a few other cuts was overdubbed in L.A. by the late Tony Martin, Jr. ("Sail On Sailor", "Steamboat", probably "Only With You"). I think much of the piano is Carl, or Dennis in the case of his tunes....and the bass is Blondie Chaplin (unless it's Moog bass...that's Carl playing that on "On My Way To Sunny Cali-forn-I-aye" and "The Trader"). Drums are Ricky...except on "Funk Pretty", which has Brian playing drums.
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« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 09:20:54 PM »

The Beach Boys with Blondie and Ricky were pretty self contained with minimal outside help it sounds like.
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2017, 01:21:27 AM »

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. I looked on the boards and couldn’t find an answer, but who played on the “Holland” LP? I mean stuff like the pedal steel on “Big Sur” and the synth solo on “Leaving This Town.” Also, a lot of the bass and piano playing is quite good and sounds very un-Beach Boys.

Both the pedal steel on "Big Sur" and the synth solo on "Leaving This Town" were played by Ricky Fataar - the steel guitar on a few other cuts was overdubbed in L.A. by the late Tony Martin, Jr. ("Sail On Sailor", "Steamboat", probably "Only With You"). I think much of the piano is Carl, or Dennis in the case of his tunes....and the bass is Blondie Chaplin (unless it's Moog bass...that's Carl playing that on "On My Way To Sunny Cali-forn-I-aye" and "The Trader"). Drums are Ricky...except on "Funk Pretty", which has Brian playing drums.



That means that the pedal steel on "We got love" also was played by Ricky, right? Man, I really love that intro (studio version)! I could listen to it for hours. I also really like the pedal steel solo on "Hold on dear brother", which I'd guess was also Ricky. It would've been very interesting if the Beach Boys would have gone a little more into a country-rock direction imo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MRSHpYKFfE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGgvxodlT84
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 01:29:48 AM by Rocker » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2017, 08:23:12 AM »

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. I looked on the boards and couldn’t find an answer, but who played on the “Holland” LP? I mean stuff like the pedal steel on “Big Sur” and the synth solo on “Leaving This Town.” Also, a lot of the bass and piano playing is quite good and sounds very un-Beach Boys.

Both the pedal steel on "Big Sur" and the synth solo on "Leaving This Town" were played by Ricky Fataar - the steel guitar on a few other cuts was overdubbed in L.A. by the late Tony Martin, Jr. ("Sail On Sailor", "Steamboat", probably "Only With You"). I think much of the piano is Carl, or Dennis in the case of his tunes....and the bass is Blondie Chaplin (unless it's Moog bass...that's Carl playing that on "On My Way To Sunny Cali-forn-I-aye" and "The Trader"). Drums are Ricky...except on "Funk Pretty", which has Brian playing drums.



That means that the pedal steel on "We got love" also was played by Ricky, right? Man, I really love that intro (studio version)! I could listen to it for hours. I also really like the pedal steel solo on "Hold on dear brother", which I'd guess was also Ricky. It would've been very interesting if the Beach Boys would have gone a little more into a country-rock direction imo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MRSHpYKFfE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGgvxodlT84

Yeah, I'm assuming the pedal steel on  "We Got Love" was Ricky - he definitely played it on that song during live shows in '74, after Blondie had left - I think in '73, though, he was playing rhythm guitar while singing it, and Blondie played slide on his Les Paul (this would include the version on the In Concert album"

The pedal steel on "Hold On Dear Brother", though, was Orville "Red" Rhodes - and in Billy Hinsche's 1974 tour docuemtary, Ricky actually says that Red's performance on that song is what got him interested in learning the pedal steel in the first place! Ricky's pretty talented and diverse, instrumentally - drums, guitar, bass, sitar, pedal steel, keyboards, flute - the man can seemingly do it all!
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2017, 01:40:56 PM »

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. I looked on the boards and couldn’t find an answer, but who played on the “Holland” LP? I mean stuff like the pedal steel on “Big Sur” and the synth solo on “Leaving This Town.” Also, a lot of the bass and piano playing is quite good and sounds very un-Beach Boys.

Both the pedal steel on "Big Sur" and the synth solo on "Leaving This Town" were played by Ricky Fataar - the steel guitar on a few other cuts was overdubbed in L.A. by the late Tony Martin, Jr. ("Sail On Sailor", "Steamboat", probably "Only With You"). I think much of the piano is Carl, or Dennis in the case of his tunes....and the bass is Blondie Chaplin (unless it's Moog bass...that's Carl playing that on "On My Way To Sunny Cali-forn-I-aye" and "The Trader"). Drums are Ricky...except on "Funk Pretty", which has Brian playing drums.

Side question… Did Brian ever perform drums live?  I know there were a handful of live TV performances with Carl on drums for certain songs in the late 1960s.  Considering how much Brian performed on drums on studio songs during the 1970s, it would seem logical that maybe just once or twice he might've stepped behind the kit in a live setting?
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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2017, 02:14:33 PM »

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. I looked on the boards and couldn’t find an answer, but who played on the “Holland” LP? I mean stuff like the pedal steel on “Big Sur” and the synth solo on “Leaving This Town.” Also, a lot of the bass and piano playing is quite good and sounds very un-Beach Boys.

Both the pedal steel on "Big Sur" and the synth solo on "Leaving This Town" were played by Ricky Fataar - the steel guitar on a few other cuts was overdubbed in L.A. by the late Tony Martin, Jr. ("Sail On Sailor", "Steamboat", probably "Only With You"). I think much of the piano is Carl, or Dennis in the case of his tunes....and the bass is Blondie Chaplin (unless it's Moog bass...that's Carl playing that on "On My Way To Sunny Cali-forn-I-aye" and "The Trader"). Drums are Ricky...except on "Funk Pretty", which has Brian playing drums.

Side question… Did Brian ever perform drums live?  I know there were a handful of live TV performances with Carl on drums for certain songs in the late 1960s.  Considering how much Brian performed on drums on studio songs during the 1970s, it would seem logical that maybe just once or twice he might've stepped behind the kit in a live setting?

I believe he did when Dennis sang "The Wanderer" at early shows ...
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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2017, 02:23:38 PM »

Are any of these credits on Beach Boys albums before 15 Big Ones? Or has session info (other than lead vocals) been found through musician union/session documents and research for books?

Thanks!
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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2017, 08:03:03 PM »

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. I looked on the boards and couldn’t find an answer, but who played on the “Holland” LP? I mean stuff like the pedal steel on “Big Sur” and the synth solo on “Leaving This Town.” Also, a lot of the bass and piano playing is quite good and sounds very un-Beach Boys.

Both the pedal steel on "Big Sur" and the synth solo on "Leaving This Town" were played by Ricky Fataar - the steel guitar on a few other cuts was overdubbed in L.A. by the late Tony Martin, Jr. ("Sail On Sailor", "Steamboat", probably "Only With You"). I think much of the piano is Carl, or Dennis in the case of his tunes....and the bass is Blondie Chaplin (unless it's Moog bass...that's Carl playing that on "On My Way To Sunny Cali-forn-I-aye" and "The Trader"). Drums are Ricky...except on "Funk Pretty", which has Brian playing drums.

Side question… Did Brian ever perform drums live?  I know there were a handful of live TV performances with Carl on drums for certain songs in the late 1960s.  Considering how much Brian performed on drums on studio songs during the 1970s, it would seem logical that maybe just once or twice he might've stepped behind the kit in a live setting?

I believe he did when Dennis sang "The Wanderer" at early shows ...

And when Dennis sang "Do You Wanna Dance" at New York Academy of Music in 1965...
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« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2017, 01:43:51 AM »

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. I looked on the boards and couldn’t find an answer, but who played on the “Holland” LP? I mean stuff like the pedal steel on “Big Sur” and the synth solo on “Leaving This Town.” Also, a lot of the bass and piano playing is quite good and sounds very un-Beach Boys.

Both the pedal steel on "Big Sur" and the synth solo on "Leaving This Town" were played by Ricky Fataar - the steel guitar on a few other cuts was overdubbed in L.A. by the late Tony Martin, Jr. ("Sail On Sailor", "Steamboat", probably "Only With You"). I think much of the piano is Carl, or Dennis in the case of his tunes....and the bass is Blondie Chaplin (unless it's Moog bass...that's Carl playing that on "On My Way To Sunny Cali-forn-I-aye" and "The Trader"). Drums are Ricky...except on "Funk Pretty", which has Brian playing drums.

Side question… Did Brian ever perform drums live?  I know there were a handful of live TV performances with Carl on drums for certain songs in the late 1960s.  Considering how much Brian performed on drums on studio songs during the 1970s, it would seem logical that maybe just once or twice he might've stepped behind the kit in a live setting?


Here's a picture of Brian playing drums on stage:



So we hear Brian's drumming on the Beach Boys Concert album, I guess.



Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. I looked on the boards and couldn’t find an answer, but who played on the “Holland” LP? I mean stuff like the pedal steel on “Big Sur” and the synth solo on “Leaving This Town.” Also, a lot of the bass and piano playing is quite good and sounds very un-Beach Boys.

Both the pedal steel on "Big Sur" and the synth solo on "Leaving This Town" were played by Ricky Fataar - the steel guitar on a few other cuts was overdubbed in L.A. by the late Tony Martin, Jr. ("Sail On Sailor", "Steamboat", probably "Only With You"). I think much of the piano is Carl, or Dennis in the case of his tunes....and the bass is Blondie Chaplin (unless it's Moog bass...that's Carl playing that on "On My Way To Sunny Cali-forn-I-aye" and "The Trader"). Drums are Ricky...except on "Funk Pretty", which has Brian playing drums.



That means that the pedal steel on "We got love" also was played by Ricky, right? Man, I really love that intro (studio version)! I could listen to it for hours. I also really like the pedal steel solo on "Hold on dear brother", which I'd guess was also Ricky. It would've been very interesting if the Beach Boys would have gone a little more into a country-rock direction imo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MRSHpYKFfE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGgvxodlT84

Yeah, I'm assuming the pedal steel on  "We Got Love" was Ricky - he definitely played it on that song during live shows in '74, after Blondie had left - I think in '73, though, he was playing rhythm guitar while singing it, and Blondie played slide on his Les Paul (this would include the version on the In Concert album"

The pedal steel on "Hold On Dear Brother", though, was Orville "Red" Rhodes - and in Billy Hinsche's 1974 tour docuemtary, Ricky actually says that Red's performance on that song is what got him interested in learning the pedal steel in the first place! Ricky's pretty talented and diverse, instrumentally - drums, guitar, bass, sitar, pedal steel, keyboards, flute - the man can seemingly do it all!

Oh yeah, from what I've heard Ricky is amazing. Such a shame he and Blondie left the Beach Boys. So much potential!
Thanks for the info! Now that you say it, the solo on "Hold on..." sounds different to the style on "We got love". But I didn't know it was the legendary Red Rhodes. Cool!
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 01:45:36 AM by Rocker » Logged

a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2017, 11:10:33 AM »

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. I looked on the boards and couldn’t find an answer, but who played on the “Holland” LP? I mean stuff like the pedal steel on “Big Sur” and the synth solo on “Leaving This Town.” Also, a lot of the bass and piano playing is quite good and sounds very un-Beach Boys.

Both the pedal steel on "Big Sur" and the synth solo on "Leaving This Town" were played by Ricky Fataar - the steel guitar on a few other cuts was overdubbed in L.A. by the late Tony Martin, Jr. ("Sail On Sailor", "Steamboat", probably "Only With You"). I think much of the piano is Carl, or Dennis in the case of his tunes....and the bass is Blondie Chaplin (unless it's Moog bass...that's Carl playing that on "On My Way To Sunny Cali-forn-I-aye" and "The Trader"). Drums are Ricky...except on "Funk Pretty", which has Brian playing drums.

THANK YOU! This is great info, C-Man. I saw BW play in Boston this past Friday, and the tunes with Blondie made me realize how great this era of the band was — especially in a live setting.

It's been said before, but I think a major point of the BBs dropping off the charts (and out of favor with youth culture at that time) is that there's little-to-no "big" drums or guitars on most of the post-'60s output, but seeing them play "Feel Flows" and "Sail On, Sailor" in a more "rock" arrangement was revelatory. I could've done without 10 minutes of Blondie soloing over "Wild Honey," but those post-"Sunflower" tunes were my favorite part of the show — even more than the "Pet Sounds" material (at least in a live context).

It's cool that they got such great and interesting arrangements during the 71–73 era without using session guys like they would again starting w/ "15BO."
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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2017, 11:35:45 AM »

I agree. Part of the reason I love the 68-73 era is how much of the material the band played themselves. They really could play. Carl and Al's guitar playing was always solid, Dennis not only rocked on the drums, but blossomed on the keys. I could go on and on about Bruce's skills on keys... Even Brian had his own playing chops. Keys, bass, even the drums on Breakaway are good. Just such a talented group of guys.
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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2017, 04:21:15 AM »

When i saw BB in 70"s Ricky played a lap steel on stage either in a chair or on floor on one knee.. never saw him play a full pedal steel guitar on stage.
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« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2021, 04:25:18 AM »

Sorry for the thread necromancy here, but I've been listening to the FF box version of Big Sur and comparing it to the Holland version.

Both are lovely, and I am glad that both exist.

The 1970 version is so bright and spritely, buoyant. The 1973 version sounds a lot more world-weary, zen even.

But what I want to know is, do we have musician credits for either of these? In particular the piano on the Holland version. I would guess Carl, just due to probability, but Al had a big hand in the California Trilogy, so maybe it could be him?
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« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2021, 05:23:23 AM »

When i saw BB in 70"s Ricky played a lap steel on stage either in a chair or on floor on one knee.. never saw him play a full pedal steel guitar on stage.

That sounds more like how Mike played the electro-theremin!  There are photos of Ricky playing the pedal steel guitar, both onstage and in a group advert for Fender.
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« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2021, 05:32:05 AM »

Sorry for the thread necromancy here, but I've been listening to the FF box version of Big Sur and comparing it to the Holland version.

Both are lovely, and I am glad that both exist.

The 1970 version is so bright and spritely, buoyant. The 1973 version sounds a lot more world-weary, zen even.

But what I want to know is, do we have musician credits for either of these? In particular the piano on the Holland version. I would guess Carl, just due to probability, but Al had a big hand in the California Trilogy, so maybe it could be him?

Without anyone having reviewed either session tape, it's difficult to say, but it was surmised for now that the 1970 version is probably somewhere along the lines of Brian on Rock-Si-Chord, Bruce on Baldwin organ, Carl on acoustic and electric guitars, and Daryl on bass and vibraphone, with Desper pushing 'go' on the Rhythm King.

Blondie remembered the saga (meaning Big Sur and Beaks) being himself on bass, Ricky on drums and Carl on piano, which is more or less all there is to the track. It may be Al on acoustic guitar or that may have been overdubbed. Ricky played the pedal steel, and the harmonica is anyone's guess.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 05:35:26 AM by WillJC » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2021, 07:33:04 PM »

Sorry for the thread necromancy here, but I've been listening to the FF box version of Big Sur and comparing it to the Holland version.

Both are lovely, and I am glad that both exist.

The 1970 version is so bright and spritely, buoyant. The 1973 version sounds a lot more world-weary, zen even.

But what I want to know is, do we have musician credits for either of these? In particular the piano on the Holland version. I would guess Carl, just due to probability, but Al had a big hand in the California Trilogy, so maybe it could be him?

Without anyone having reviewed either session tape, it's difficult to say, but it was surmised for now that the 1970 version is probably somewhere along the lines of Brian on Rock-Si-Chord, Bruce on Baldwin organ, Carl on acoustic and electric guitars, and Daryl on bass and vibraphone, with Desper pushing 'go' on the Rhythm King.

Blondie remembered the saga (meaning Big Sur and Beaks) being himself on bass, Ricky on drums and Carl on piano, which is more or less all there is to the track. It may be Al on acoustic guitar or that may have been overdubbed. Ricky played the pedal steel, and the harmonica is anyone's guess.

Any chance that's Brian? It's always been unclear to me what Brian's actual ability on harmonica is, but he seems to have played a bit and the harmonica on this song always struck me as charmingly random and simple (though I never listened closely) so I could imagine Brian just dropping in and doing it in a take or two. You'd think somebody would have mentioned it, but there's so many other things nobody ever bothered to mention that seems important to us observers, so who knows. I suppose on that basis it could just have easily been anyone in the band who'd blown a harp enough to know how to do the basics.
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« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2021, 09:33:08 PM »

What about Billy Hinsche? He was there and he plays harmonica.
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« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2021, 01:34:46 AM »

Sorry for the thread necromancy here, but I've been listening to the FF box version of Big Sur and comparing it to the Holland version.

Both are lovely, and I am glad that both exist.

The 1970 version is so bright and spritely, buoyant. The 1973 version sounds a lot more world-weary, zen even.

But what I want to know is, do we have musician credits for either of these? In particular the piano on the Holland version. I would guess Carl, just due to probability, but Al had a big hand in the California Trilogy, so maybe it could be him?

Without anyone having reviewed either session tape, it's difficult to say, but it was surmised for now that the 1970 version is probably somewhere along the lines of Brian on Rock-Si-Chord, Bruce on Baldwin organ, Carl on acoustic and electric guitars, and Daryl on bass and vibraphone, with Desper pushing 'go' on the Rhythm King.

Blondie remembered the saga (meaning Big Sur and Beaks) being himself on bass, Ricky on drums and Carl on piano, which is more or less all there is to the track. It may be Al on acoustic guitar or that may have been overdubbed. Ricky played the pedal steel, and the harmonica is anyone's guess.

Any chance that's Brian? It's always been unclear to me what Brian's actual ability on harmonica is, but he seems to have played a bit and the harmonica on this song always struck me as charmingly random and simple (though I never listened closely) so I could imagine Brian just dropping in and doing it in a take or two. You'd think somebody would have mentioned it, but there's so many other things nobody ever bothered to mention that seems important to us observers, so who knows. I suppose on that basis it could just have easily been anyone in the band who'd blown a harp enough to know how to do the basics.

Could be! Or it could be Billy, or maybe Ricky -- there's a harmonica on the Flame song Lady which had to have been someone in the band, although that's got a bit more finesse. I think it's a good question for Al.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 03:00:29 AM by WillJC » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2021, 05:45:23 AM »

Brad Elliott credits Brian with harmonica on BIG SUR, but doesn't indicate the source for that. Too bad that little Holland promotional booklet doesn't ID the harmonica player. Billy once told me he only went to Holland at the end of the sessions, and didn't actually play anything on the album while there; but to that point, the harmonica could've been overdubbed when they got back to L.A. If it was added in Holland, I think it could possibly be Dennis. Bottom line - we don't know, and maybe never will...
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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2021, 10:23:42 AM »

Brad Elliott credits Brian with harmonica on BIG SUR, but doesn't indicate the source for that. Too bad that little Holland promotional booklet doesn't ID the harmonica player. Billy once told me he only went to Holland at the end of the sessions, and didn't actually play anything on the album while there; but to that point, the harmonica could've been overdubbed when they got back to L.A. If it was added in Holland, I think it could possibly be Dennis. Bottom line - we don't know, and maybe never will...

I figured that it couldn't have been Brian since Brian wasn't really contributing to any of the actual Holland sessions. He was at home and worked on Mount Vernon and Funky Pretty.
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« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2021, 11:14:21 PM »

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. I looked on the boards and couldn’t find an answer, but who played on the “Holland” LP? I mean stuff like the pedal steel on “Big Sur” and the synth solo on “Leaving This Town.” Also, a lot of the bass and piano playing is quite good and sounds very un-Beach Boys.

Both the pedal steel on "Big Sur" and the synth solo on "Leaving This Town" were played by Ricky Fataar - the steel guitar on a few other cuts was overdubbed in L.A. by the late Tony Martin, Jr. ("Sail On Sailor", "Steamboat", probably "Only With You"). I think much of the piano is Carl, or Dennis in the case of his tunes....and the bass is Blondie Chaplin (unless it's Moog bass...that's Carl playing that on "On My Way To Sunny Cali-forn-I-aye" and "The Trader"). Drums are Ricky...except on "Funk Pretty", which has Brian playing drums.

Side question… Did Brian ever perform drums live?  I know there were a handful of live TV performances with Carl on drums for certain songs in the late 1960s.  Considering how much Brian performed on drums on studio songs during the 1970s, it would seem logical that maybe just once or twice he might've stepped behind the kit in a live setting?

I believe he did when Dennis sang "The Wanderer" at early shows ...



The shows that Brian played in 1965, he also played drums when Dennis would come out front to sing Do You Wanna Dance.

http://www.beachboysfanclub.org/bwdrums.html

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