Rolling Stone: The Salvation of Brian Wilson

[the captain]

Anyway, trademarked joke-references, quote-error call-outs, and Love v. Rose comparisons aside, the story was a good one. It's always a pleasure to read (or hear) Brian swearing, and some of the info was interesting if it's to be taken seriously (e.g., his adamant stance on not joining the BBs again, which I would say is wise for his and everyone's sanity).

[southbay]

Maybe if Mike and Axl can get off the road for a few days they can meet up and kvetch about pain in the ass former bandmates over some wheatgrass health shakes, and discuss a collaboration that won't see the light of day.

No

Let's not put those two in the same category. Axl's five peak years surpass Mike's entire 50+-year contribution to popular music.

I think you meant:

I think you're mostly dead-on, except my guess is it's not about nerves (unless you mean "interview is getting on Brian's nerves" as opposed to "nervous" nerves). It's been 50+ years of talking about a lot of the same old things. Sure, they have a few "new" questions like what is it like to be so active again, but hell, that is a 20-year-old question by now. Brian's interviews should be used for entertainment purposes only.

No

Because it would be weird for me to quote myself with a negation of my statement. But I stand behind it anyway.

exactly.  I hate these quote brackets...

[ForHerCryingSoul]

This Brian interview was interesting.  However, it does make me very sad that he won't be singing with Mike or Bruce or even David in the foreseeable future.  Their voices create a vocal texture that just isn't quite there with Brian's band.  I love Brian's band, saw them perform Pet Sounds last summer, but their voices don't blend as well together as the Beach Boys do.  To not hear the Beach Boys voices in any future recordings would be a heartbreaking tragedy.

It is also very sad that Brian hasn't talked to Mike in five years.  I know Mike has done some really awful things in the public eye, I'm not opening that can of worms, but it is sad to me that their kinship (being cousins and a part of the family) has collapsed.  Their situations seem like a big divorce at this point, which is always a very sad situation to be involved in.  I don't think the coinciding releases of their respective biographies doesn't help and ignites sour feelings. 

I guess as a fan, I wish they would patch things up with each other and at least be amicable,  but it doesn't look like it's going to happen now.  Once again, seeing the realization that the Beach Boys as we know them today might never record together again as a functioning unit is a heartbreaking tragedy in my world and in the musical world.   

[KDS]

This Brian interview was interesting.  However, it does make me very sad that he won't be singing with Mike or Bruce or even David in the foreseeable future.  Their voices create a vocal texture that just isn't quite there with Brian's band.  I love Brian's band, saw them perform Pet Sounds last summer, but their voices don't blend as well together as the Beach Boys do.  To not hear the Beach Boys voices in any future recordings would be a heartbreaking tragedy.

It is also very sad that Brian hasn't talked to Mike in five years.  I know Mike has done some really awful things in the public eye, I'm not opening that can of worms, but it is sad to me that their kinship (being cousins and a part of the family) has collapsed.  Their situations seem like a big divorce at this point, which is always a very sad situation to be involved in.  I don't think the coinciding releases of their respective biographies doesn't help and ignites sour feelings. 

I guess as a fan, I wish they would patch things up with each other and at least be amicable,  but it doesn't look like it's going to happen now.  Once again, seeing the realization that the Beach Boys as we know them today might never record together again as a functioning unit is a heartbreaking tragedy in my world and in the musical world.   

I'd like to hop at one point, when things slow down a little more and Brian and Mike aren't doing so many shows that they can at least break bread as cousins, and enjoy the third act of life and reflect on what they were able to accomplish together. 

[Ang Jones]

Frankly I hope Brian and Mike continue to go their own ways. The Beach Boys' vocals were great back in the day but Dennis and Carl are no longer with us and I don't believe that Mike's vocals would add anything particularly amazing. That famous quote 'they blew it, they continued to blow it' could so be applied to Mike. He had his chances and wasted them.

As for their personal relationship, that is between them but Mike seems to be so envious of Brian that it's hard to see how that isn't going to continue to be a problem.

[HeyJude]

This Brian interview was interesting.  However, it does make me very sad that he won't be singing with Mike or Bruce or even David in the foreseeable future.  Their voices create a vocal texture that just isn't quite there with Brian's band.  I love Brian's band, saw them perform Pet Sounds last summer, but their voices don't blend as well together as the Beach Boys do.  To not hear the Beach Boys voices in any future recordings would be a heartbreaking tragedy.

It is also very sad that Brian hasn't talked to Mike in five years.  I know Mike has done some really awful things in the public eye, I'm not opening that can of worms, but it is sad to me that their kinship (being cousins and a part of the family) has collapsed.  Their situations seem like a big divorce at this point, which is always a very sad situation to be involved in.  I don't think the coinciding releases of their respective biographies doesn't help and ignites sour feelings. 

I guess as a fan, I wish they would patch things up with each other and at least be amicable,  but it doesn't look like it's going to happen now.  Once again, seeing the realization that the Beach Boys as we know them today might never record together again as a functioning unit is a heartbreaking tragedy in my world and in the musical world.   

It's sad indeed. But I'm not big on the implication (which may or may be intended in this specific instance) that it's kind of a 50/50 thing in terms of what's causing the problems between them. Mike *left* Brian and Al in 2012. Brian was on record saying not only did he want to continue with Mike, but that he wanted to be a Beach Boy from that point on. Mike ended that, and then in short order went beyond mentioning the typical boilerplate (in my opinion largely inconsequential) logistical issues regarding why he quit the reunion, and went on to criticize some pretty *personal* things about Brian and those around him.

In the interviews the guys have given over the last five years after C50, Brian has remained complimentary about Mike and Mike's work and talent. Mike has often criticized Brian and those "around" him present-day, as well as continued to dredge up decades-old issues about all of the Wilsons that have long since been a non-issue either due to recovering or due to death.

The common thread here is that it appears to be mostly on Mike's side in terms of what needs to change. What else can Brian do, just based on what they've all said? Divorce his wife? Other than letting Mike force an "alone in a room" collaboration, what else could Brian possibly do to mend this relationship?

Conversely, what could Mike do? I can name a dozen things off the top of my head, with the main thing being simply accepting Brian the way he is. Stop talking s**t on the Wilsons. Stop doing weird passive-aggressive things (poaching band members from Brian for instance), stop nickel and diming Brian and Al about simply using their Beach Boys history to promote their shows, and the list goes on and on.

I'm not suggesting Brian is faultless, or that Melinda is perfect, or that there isn't a ton of politics involved on all sides. But the story of Brian and Mike being estranged as they veer towards 80 years old is, in my opinion, not the story of two people who equally are at fault for their falling out or who have an equal onus to change things about themselves to allow fence-mending. Rather, it's the story mostly of Mike disliking Melinda and stewing on negativity and cloistering himself in his own full-time, non-stop tour organization, choosing to be Mr. Positivity only when he feels like it, and only on *his* terms.

Separately, let us also remember that C50 and 2012 was the anomaly as far as Brian and Mike spending a lot of time together and working together. That last time they had spent that much time on a daily basis together was probably the 1981 tour, and the last time they had worked together on a semi-regular basis in the studio was probably 1985-ish, and the last time they had sat down and wrote together in any volume was probably circa 1979 on the KTSA sessions.

They've been estranged more than they've been together over these 56 years.

The falling out between Mike and *Al* is actually in some ways more perplexing and sad, as those guys spent almost 37 years full time together with no breaks.

[HeyJude]

This Brian interview was interesting.  However, it does make me very sad that he won't be singing with Mike or Bruce or even David in the foreseeable future.  Their voices create a vocal texture that just isn't quite there with Brian's band.  I love Brian's band, saw them perform Pet Sounds last summer, but their voices don't blend as well together as the Beach Boys do.  To not hear the Beach Boys voices in any future recordings would be a heartbreaking tragedy.

It is also very sad that Brian hasn't talked to Mike in five years.  I know Mike has done some really awful things in the public eye, I'm not opening that can of worms, but it is sad to me that their kinship (being cousins and a part of the family) has collapsed.  Their situations seem like a big divorce at this point, which is always a very sad situation to be involved in.  I don't think the coinciding releases of their respective biographies doesn't help and ignites sour feelings. 

I guess as a fan, I wish they would patch things up with each other and at least be amicable,  but it doesn't look like it's going to happen now.  Once again, seeing the realization that the Beach Boys as we know them today might never record together again as a functioning unit is a heartbreaking tragedy in my world and in the musical world.   

I'd like to hop at one point, when things slow down a little more and Brian and Mike aren't doing so many shows that they can at least break bread as cousins, and enjoy the third act of life and reflect on what they were able to accomplish together. 

Not trying to be morbid, and the guys that are left seem to be doing well and have amazingly strong longevity, but they're already "rounding third" as Howie Edelson has put it. I guess it's never totally too late as long as they're still alive, but they entered that final phase some time ago and things have gotten *worse* after 2012. 2013-2015 saw some pretty raging negativity from Mike about Brian and those around Brian. I guess it has kind of tapered off in the last year or so.

I'm also not convinced much of anything beyond death or a severe infirmity will lead to Mike leaving the road. I don't think he's going to "retire" from the road while he's still in the shape he is.

If Mike wants to slow down and mend fences with Brian (truly mend fences and not do the "if you come alone and don't bring your wife" sort of thing) and have some true humility, which I certainly wish for them or any family members (or friends for that matter), the time to do it is *now.*

[Lonely Summer]

Brian needs Mike to tell him that a new song is a mother***er. Seriously.
And then we'll have world peace.

[HeyJude]

It's nuts. If you read that Jason Fine article from 2012, Brian heaps a TON of praise on "Daybreak Over the Ocean", yet is so off-put even thinking about working on Al's "Waves of Love" that he LITERALLY just ups and leaves the room to avoid working on it or even discussing it further with Al. Yet, how did things shake down after the reunion? It's Mike who is disenfranchised and feels marginalized creatively on the album, while it's Al who continues to work with Brian despite being almost comically rejected creatively by Brian during those same sessions. 

[KDS]

This Brian interview was interesting.  However, it does make me very sad that he won't be singing with Mike or Bruce or even David in the foreseeable future.  Their voices create a vocal texture that just isn't quite there with Brian's band.  I love Brian's band, saw them perform Pet Sounds last summer, but their voices don't blend as well together as the Beach Boys do.  To not hear the Beach Boys voices in any future recordings would be a heartbreaking tragedy.

It is also very sad that Brian hasn't talked to Mike in five years.  I know Mike has done some really awful things in the public eye, I'm not opening that can of worms, but it is sad to me that their kinship (being cousins and a part of the family) has collapsed.  Their situations seem like a big divorce at this point, which is always a very sad situation to be involved in.  I don't think the coinciding releases of their respective biographies doesn't help and ignites sour feelings. 

I guess as a fan, I wish they would patch things up with each other and at least be amicable,  but it doesn't look like it's going to happen now.  Once again, seeing the realization that the Beach Boys as we know them today might never record together again as a functioning unit is a heartbreaking tragedy in my world and in the musical world.   

I'd like to hop at one point, when things slow down a little more and Brian and Mike aren't doing so many shows that they can at least break bread as cousins, and enjoy the third act of life and reflect on what they were able to accomplish together. 

Not trying to be morbid, and the guys that are left seem to be doing well and have amazingly strong longevity, but they're already "rounding third" as Howie Edelson has put it. I guess it's never totally too late as long as they're still alive, but they entered that final phase some time ago and things have gotten *worse* after 2012. 2013-2015 saw some pretty raging negativity from Mike about Brian and those around Brian. I guess it has kind of tapered off in the last year or so.

I'm also not convinced much of anything beyond death or a severe infirmity will lead to Mike leaving the road. I don't think he's going to "retire" from the road while he's still in the shape he is.

If Mike wants to slow down and mend fences with Brian (truly mend fences and not do the "if you come alone and don't bring your wife" sort of thing) and have some true humility, which I certainly wish for them or any family members (or friends for that matter), the time to do it is *now.*

I should expand on my point. 

I wouldn't like to hop in the future.  Dang typos. 

[The 4th Wilson Bro.]

"It's been a long time since I've had serious depression, or elation. Mostly I'm just pleasantly depressed."


I laughed out loud at that one.

[Lonely Summer]

It's nuts. If you read that Jason Fine article from 2012, Brian heaps a TON of praise on "Daybreak Over the Ocean", yet is so off-put even thinking about working on Al's "Waves of Love" that he LITERALLY just ups and leaves the room to avoid working on it or even discussing it further with Al. Yet, how did things shake down after the reunion? It's Mike who is disenfranchised and feels marginalized creatively on the album, while it's Al who continues to work with Brian despite being almost comically rejected creatively by Brian during those same sessions. 

I don't really think of TWGMTR as a Beach Boys album anymore. It was basically a BW solo album with the BB's as guests. I would like to have heard a more collaborative album from the guys; Al should have had at least one tune on there. At least Mike got his song included. And there isn't any place in those songs for David to cut loose and really show us what he can do. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice album, but it's got more in common with Imagination than any record in the BB's catalog.

[the captain]

That says it all though, that TWGMTR was basically a BW solo album feat. the BBs. The guys can't or won't make an album "like [they] used to," whatever individuals may say they wish to do. I mean, they obviously COULD. But they don't. They haven't. It's been decades since they did. It isn't going to happen. We can wish they would put themselves through circumstances they quite obviously don't actually want to be put in to give us something we think they should want to give us, or we could just admit that it has been over for a long, long time, and instead find other things to enjoy: the old music, their new music, their shows, or other bands' music. Classic, truly collaborative Beach Boys are gone. TWGMTR was a better-than-expected sleight of hand to the contrary, but even that was 5 years ago. It's over. They're old. Let them die happy.

[SMiLE Brian]

They are 25% happier...

[MikestheGreatest!!]

I wish Brian was in better physical condition.  Really, half the people on this thread have him "rounding third" as if death is very imminent but I don't believe that it need be.  With his financial resources he should be able to clean up his diet and alleviate many of his physical maladies through physical training.  The number of centenarians is going up all the time, even with his prior health and lifestyle issues, he could perhaps make it to a productive 90 years or more.....I'm certainly hoping that will happen!

[the captain]

If he's going to make a hundred, he is rounding third. I'm no mathematician, but that seems about right to me. And that 25% left, well it'll be like the 25% improvement we could expect from...well, you know.

[southbay]

That says it all though, that TWGMTR was basically a BW solo album feat. the BBs. The guys can't or won't make an album "like [they] used to," whatever individuals may say they wish to do. I mean, they obviously COULD. But they don't. They haven't. It's been decades since they did. It isn't going to happen. We can wish they would put themselves through circumstances they quite obviously don't actually want to be put in to give us something we think they should want to give us, or we could just admit that it has been over for a long, long time, and instead find other things to enjoy: the old music, their new music, their shows, or other bands' music. Classic, truly collaborative Beach Boys are gone. TWGMTR was a better-than-expected sleight of hand to the contrary, but even that was 5 years ago. It's over. They're old. Let them die happy.

Nothing at all wrong in my book with a BW album featuring the Beach Boys as guest vocalists. Isn't that what most of the great BB's albums were anyway? (Sunflower, Holland, Surf's Up aside)

[the captain]

That says it all though, that TWGMTR was basically a BW solo album feat. the BBs. The guys can't or won't make an album "like [they] used to," whatever individuals may say they wish to do. I mean, they obviously COULD. But they don't. They haven't. It's been decades since they did. It isn't going to happen. We can wish they would put themselves through circumstances they quite obviously don't actually want to be put in to give us something we think they should want to give us, or we could just admit that it has been over for a long, long time, and instead find other things to enjoy: the old music, their new music, their shows, or other bands' music. Classic, truly collaborative Beach Boys are gone. TWGMTR was a better-than-expected sleight of hand to the contrary, but even that was 5 years ago. It's over. They're old. Let them die happy.

Nothing at all wrong in my book with a BW album featuring the Beach Boys as guest vocalists. Isn't that what most of the great BB's albums were anyway? (Sunflower, Holland, Surf's Up aside)

If that's what you like, no, there's nothing wrong with it. And if that's what they want to make, no, there's nothing wrong with it. But most people here seem to be asking for something beyond that, more of a familial healing event resulting in a gang's-back-together (and getting along swimmingly) effort. And of course that's what Mike has at least claimed to want forever, the whole "get in a room with Brian like we did way back when."

My only point is that that is unrealistic and probably bad for people's mental health to spend much emotional energy on. It isn't going to happen, or it would have happened.

But that's not to say TWGMTR was an atrocity or anything. As I've said, I liked it far, far more than I figured I would. Yet if I'm OK with Brian Wilson music featuring some Beach Boys, I'm more than fine with that excluding Mike and Bruce. Al is the only one whose voice sounds all that good to me these days anyway, other than Brian in his better moments. So if you're going that route, go that route, e.g., NPP.

[Matt H]

The whole get Brian in a room argument that Mike gives seems ridiculous to me.  He says he know how to write a hit with Brian, the last one they wrote that went top 40 is "It's OK" in 1974, and went top 40 in 1976.

[CenturyDeprived]

It's nuts. If you read that Jason Fine article from 2012, Brian heaps a TON of praise on "Daybreak Over the Ocean", yet is so off-put even thinking about working on Al's "Waves of Love" that he LITERALLY just ups and leaves the room to avoid working on it or even discussing it further with Al. Yet, how did things shake down after the reunion? It's Mike who is disenfranchised and feels marginalized creatively on the album, while it's Al who continues to work with Brian despite being almost comically rejected creatively by Brian during those same sessions. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Brian didn't want to have to deal with the emotions that might have come up when newly working on a track with his late brother's vocals on it. Granted, he did it in 2004 with Soul Searchin', but maybe he found that to be a difficult experience.

I can't see any other logical reason for Brian being so apparently extra allergic to another bandmate's BB track. The only other track I can think of that garnered such a Brian reaction apparently was Student Demonstration Time.

[the captain]

I can't see any other logical reason for Brian being so apparently extra allergic to another bandmate's BB track.

It is possible that logic didn't have anything to do with it, though. Maybe he really didn't like the song and wasn't comfortable being confrontational about it, and so he bolted rather than talk about it. (Pure speculation, obviously.) But we--all of us--behave illogically all the time. We're more logical analyzing others, it seems to me. But of course, your speculation is possible, too.

[Lonely Summer]

I wish Brian was in better physical condition.  Really, half the people on this thread have him "rounding third" as if death is very imminent but I don't believe that it need be.  With his financial resources he should be able to clean up his diet and alleviate many of his physical maladies through physical training.  The number of centenarians is going up all the time, even with his prior health and lifestyle issues, he could perhaps make it to a productive 90 years or more.....I'm certainly hoping that will happen!

I don't think he's been in great physical condition since Landy was forced out. I mean, Brian LOOKED great then. But that was only part of the picture.

[ForHerCryingSoul]

I think Brian wasn't comfortable having Carl's vocal on Waves of Love.  That's my two cents.  Brian's getting older, so I'm not harping on his physical condition, he seems to enjoy being on the road, even with his bad back, so that's good for him.  At least he isn't horribly depressed, smoking, or overeating anymore.  At this point, that's pretty much the best case scenario here.

[Hickory Violet Part IV]

The only other track I can think of that garnered such a Brian reaction apparently was Student Demonstration Time.

Oooh, one of my least favourite tracks as well, (don't think I've ever got more than about 30 seconds in over the last 30 years). 
What's the story here with Brian ?

[guitarfool2002]

I'd like to hop at one point, when things slow down a little more and Brian and Mike aren't doing so many shows that they can at least break bread as cousins, and enjoy the third act of life and reflect on what they were able to accomplish together. 

What is sad, I mean really sad, is that the Love brothers are estranged and have been for years. Unless they have since reconciled in the past year???  If anything I'd think fans and supporters would be pushing more fervently for the Love brothers to break bread and at least make some moves toward patching things up. That's the direct blood relative relationship there, and I also think of the various families who could be sharing time together, at this point getting to know each other as uncles, nephews, nieces, etc...These are the people who grew up in the same house and Mike seems to be estranged from them...as others have said, that's personal family business, but for all of the endless talk about Brian and Mike getting together to break bread, isn't anyone a little more sad to see Mike's own family and his own brothers fractured as they have been?

So forgive me if my bias is showing again, but it was jarring to hear Mike's biographer/co-author on a podcast interview make it a point to say how Brian was estranged from the Love family...to which I posted a reply in the form of a photo taken within weeks prior to that podcast showing Brian smiling with his cousin Maureen at a show. Yet not a word about Mike's actual brothers being estranged from Mike.

So I have to wonder beyond the normal family dynamic where people want to see relatives patch thing up and get back together as a matter of goodwill and normal human emotions, if among the fanbase (and deeper going into all that insider bullshit) there is some kind of warped notion that Brian and Mike need to break bread so the Beach Boys brand sees an increase in market value...

Because simple, basic, unfiltered human emotions and reactions would dictate that a guy who has spent the past several years telling potentially hundreds of thousands of fans - via public comments supposedly given in the name of promoting concert dates with local media - how his cousin Brian is still being controlled, drugged, and other niceties must think words don't matter. If Brian did indeed check out and slam that door shut, how many normal people would blame him? If I picked up a newspaper and read a close friend or cousin trashing me or my family publicly, that would be it...done.