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616870 Posts in 24875 Topics by 3535 Members - Latest Member: doodledoo September 22, 2017, 10:42:27 PM
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Author Topic: Heroes and Villains Live Iteration  (Read 1080 times)
Dove Nested Towers
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« on: August 26, 2017, 08:21:30 PM »

Totally minor but seems as valid as some: was just listening to H&V in Central Park '70 or so and was freshly struck by the insipid "da heroes, da heroes, da heroes and villains" vocal that Mike in his infinite wisdom seems to have taken it upon himself to add to live performances around that time. Is there another story behind that brilliant lyrical addition that I'm unaware of?
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Ninten
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2017, 09:47:23 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPbSbFLYvIo

Go to 4:45
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Bicyclerider
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2017, 10:57:17 AM »

I think Carl's live reinterpetation of Heroes is brilliant - it becomes a great rock and roll song but with the doo wop "barbershop" harmonies still in there and he even sticks "Bicycle rider" back into the chorus.  Yeah Mike oversings his part it sh9ould be more in the background but imagine if the Beach Boys had played it this way at Monterey - the crowd would have been on their feet!
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Dove Nested Towers
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2017, 03:18:24 AM »

I think Carl's live reinterpetation of Heroes is brilliant - it becomes a great rock and roll song but with the doo wop "barbershop" harmonies still in there and he even sticks "Bicycle rider" back into the chorus.  Yeah Mike oversings his part it sh9ould be more in the background but imagine if the Beach Boys had played it this way at Monterey - the crowd would have been on their feet!

I agree it's excellent, never said it wasn't. All except Mike's addition. Was just trying to get the backstory on that.
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Hickory Violet Part IV
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 05:05:50 AM »

I always liked the fact they were getting a bit of the original sessions in there.
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KDS
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2017, 05:35:55 AM »

I always liked the fact they were getting a bit of the original sessions in there.

It sounds somewhat like the backing vocals of Do You Like Worms during the "Bicycle rider" H&V reprise.   
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Hickory Violet Part IV
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2017, 05:52:41 AM »

I always liked the fact they were getting a bit of the original sessions in there.

It sounds somewhat like the backing vocals of Do You Like Worms during the "Bicycle rider" H&V reprise.   

I was thinking more the variations on a theme in H&V part 2.
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HeyJude
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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2017, 09:03:37 AM »

While Brian and his band were noted (and rightly so) when they started out in 1999 for doing live arrangements that, in some cases for the first time, closely replicated the original recordings, a lot should also be said for the work Carl did (and to varying degrees the other guys) working up excellent alternative arrangements for tracks over the years.

The band's early-mid 70s live arrangement for H&V is great; I almost treat it like a different song than the original recordings of H&V (and Brian's eventual live versions; although I'd say his live version is kind of an 80/20 hybrid of the original studio recording and the live BB arrangement).

The "Beach Boys In Concert" live version of H&V is great; a great capture of that arrangement. It's almost performed a smidge *too* frantically and fast. The '72 live version on "Endless Harmony Soundtrack" (pulled from the unreleased single-record version of "In Concert") is probably at a better speed/tempo.

While the touring BBs in Carl's lifetime always stuck more or less to that same live arrangement of H&V, it kind of lost some oomph after the mid 70s. Live versions from 1979 and 1980, for instance, are still just fine but sound a bit more rote and mechanical and too sparse. I'm a big fan of the 1980 touring band, more than most, but the live version of H&V at Knebworth (or DC), while fine, is relatively flat.

When they brought it back on the 1993 tour, it sounded quite good, with the main issues being the same issues that plagued that era of the band, the 80s-sounding rhythm keyboard (Billy Hinsche was and is a great player, but the keyboards of that era don't sound so great) and Mike Kowalski's oft-discussed drumming.

I'd say I might possibly highlight Al's "Family & Friends" version of H&V as the best post-mid 70s live version.

At very early "Family & Friends" shows in 1999, Al even did the "three score at five" section that nobody else *including Brian* has ever done live to my knowledge. 
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Dove Nested Towers
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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2017, 01:27:09 AM »

I guess I may be being overly judgmental about that vocal part, it just struck the wrong nerve one evening.
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2017, 08:40:09 AM »

I guess I may be being overly judgmental about that vocal part, it just struck the wrong nerve one evening.

For what it is worth, while it is clear to see that Mike got that "da heroes, da heroes..." part from the original vocal sessions, I think his "reimagining" of this part for those live shows did impart a...goofy/cheesie quality not so present in those original sessions.
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2017, 05:28:41 AM »

Mike does not have a lot of vocals during songs like this, so rather than just stand there like a tool, he injects snippets of BV to stay busy vocally, I guess. I don't mind it at all as many of the song parts like this (and bicycle rider) were not even known by the public back in the 70's.

Interesting how one might think, "WTF is Mike singing that for?" or "why is Carl singing about bicycle riders!?" - only to find out years later when SMiLE material was released, that it was indeed part of the original concept. Or one of the original concepts. For me, it was the "you're under arrest!" part that grated on me and sounded goofy and out of place when I first heard it, as I had only heard the single version up until that point.

In fact, I used to have a quarter taped on the stylus because I thought the record skipped at about 1:25 just before the "la la la la la ... stand or fall" part. It wasn't until I replaced the 'defective' album with another one and it still sounded like that, did I realize it was intentional. Embarrassed
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HeyJude
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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2017, 06:30:35 AM »

Mike does not have a lot of vocals during songs like this, so rather than just stand there like a tool, he injects snippets of BV to stay busy vocally, I guess. I don't mind it at all as many of the song parts like this (and bicycle rider) were not even known by the public back in the 70's.

I think this is an important part of the group dynamic over the years that isn't often delved into. Unlike many if not most other "frontmen", Mike exists in a group where a good hunk of the leads are handed off to others. So he is indeed left twiddling his thumbs on some songs. Some of his idiosyncrasies on stage probably did indeed develop out of finding something to do with himself when he wasn't singing leads and/or when he had few if any backing vocals based on the original song arrangements. 
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