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Author Topic: Scott Bennett Update: He's Due to Be Released  (Read 5546 times)
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2018, 11:31:10 AM »

There is probably a distinction to be made between reasonable and understandable. It is understandable why someone might get drunk: relieve social anxiety, relieve stress, self medicating, or even give oneself permission to behave in a certain way. But it isn’t really reasonable, in that the potential or likely (depending on how often and to what degree you do it) consequences by most accounts outweigh the benefits.

I say this as a pretty regular drinker. But ask someone whose liver is failing or who faces serious prison time after multiple DUIs whether the drinking was reasonable.

Well, a DUI is a different issue because there a predictable consequence of your actions is that you might hurt someone else. Again, if the result of your action is to deprive (or potentially deprive) others of their freedom and self-ownership, then you must take responsibility for your actions. If the result of your action is that it allows someone else the possibility to deprive you of your freedom and self-ownership, then you bear no responsibility whatsoever, as you are acting the way a human should be acting.

In the case of someone whose liver is failing, I can't fully say their drinking is unreasonable since that's a case of one's personal choice that is specifically affecting them. And here I'm strictly concerned with physical harm.

To answer B.E. - what one considers to be inappropriate or excessive has no bearing, for me, on reasonable behaviour. At one point, it was widely considered inappropriate to engage in a homosexual act but, in my view, it was a reasonable act. So if people do think that, it certainly wouldn't convince me in any way that the action of "getting blitzed out beyond self-control" is unreasonable.
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« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2018, 11:34:42 AM »

Neither one of you 'get' what I'm saying.  He was guilty and found so.  With that I agree 100%.  The fact that she was defenseless did not give him license to do what he did.  It was not an invitation.  It was not a reason for him to violate her.  The fact that she was in THAT condition, though, was HER fault.  She left herself totally vulnerable.  For that she HAS to take some responsibility.  There are,after all, consequences for actions...in REAL time.
I got what you said, Add Some. 3D You said the right thing. She shouldn't've got too tipsy if, clearly, she must be aware that when she drinks too much she doesn't think clearly. F.ex. some drink much & still stay with clear thinking. She doesn't. Which means she should've drink little.

Frankly, drinking is evil. Quit drinking, folks. It doesn't bring anything good. As strict teetotaler, I don't see the point in drinking. Even so-called social drinking. Not to mention it's got terrible taste going by the sharp fragrance. Hate it. I don't buy into its effect to lift the mood either. You, drinkers, delusioned by this myth. It, conversely, makes matters worse.

I'm not a goody goody by any means. I smoke enough weed to make Snoop Dogg look like Pat Robertson (although at this point of my life I mainly do it to help with my seizures). That said, alcohol does ruin lives and I have not had so much as a drop of drink in 4 years. My mother basically drank herself to death. My dad quit drinking when I was born; he lived another 23 years but he had cirrhosis and the end of his life was terrible. Seeing him decline like that f***ed me up. Besides dementia and/or Alzheimers, I can't think of a worse way to go.

So yeah, I may be a bit biased but I have my reasons.
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« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2018, 11:37:07 AM »

CSM, I don’t know if reasonable needs to be linked with consequences to others or only oneself. It seems to me that something could rightly be considered unreasonable if the likely consequences outweigh the benefits, even if only to oneself. Smoking is unreasonable...but you’re welcome to do it (so long as you’re not polluting my air). Ditto excessive drinking, I’d say (said the heavy drinker). I’m not advocating legislation against such behavior, just saying it is properly considered unreasonable.
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« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2018, 11:58:07 AM »

CSM, I don’t know if reasonable needs to be linked with consequences to others or only oneself. It seems to me that something could rightly be considered unreasonable if the likely consequences outweigh the benefits, even if only to oneself. Smoking is unreasonable...but you’re welcome to do it (so long as you’re not polluting my air). Ditto excessive drinking, I’d say (said the heavy drinker). I’m not advocating legislation against such behavior, just saying it is properly considered unreasonable.

In my view, if the consequences are that ultimately you have to give up your own free will in order to impose someone else's standard on yourself, then that might be the worst consequence of all - greater, in my view, than any physical damage one could do to oneself.

This does not mean that we should not work to educate others so that they can make informed choices - indeed, we should. But, again, to characterize these decisions as unreasonable seems to me to be missing the point of what it means to be reasonable.
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« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2018, 11:59:25 AM »

Neither one of you 'get' what I'm saying.  He was guilty and found so.  With that I agree 100%.  The fact that she was defenseless did not give him license to do what he did.  It was not an invitation.  It was not a reason for him to violate her.  The fact that she was in THAT condition, though, was HER fault.  She left herself totally vulnerable.  For that she HAS to take some responsibility.  There are,after all, consequences for actions...in REAL time.
I got what you said, Add Some. 3D You said the right thing. She shouldn't've got too tipsy if, clearly, she must be aware that when she drinks too much she doesn't think clearly. F.ex. some drink much & still stay with clear thinking. She doesn't. Which means she should've drink little.

Frankly, drinking is evil. Quit drinking, folks. It doesn't bring anything good. As strict teetotaler, I don't see the point in drinking. Even so-called social drinking. Not to mention it's got terrible taste going by the sharp fragrance. Hate it. I don't buy into its effect to lift the mood either. You, drinkers, delusioned by this myth. It, conversely, makes matters worse.

I'm not a goody goody by any means. I smoke enough weed to make Snoop Dogg look like Pat Robertson (although at this point of my life I mainly do it to help with my seizures). That said, alcohol does ruin lives and I have not had so much as a drop of drink in 4 years. My mother basically drank herself to death. My dad quit drinking when I was born; he lived another 23 years but he had cirrhosis and the end of his life was terrible. Seeing him decline like that f***ed me up. Besides dementia and/or Alzheimers, I can't think of a worse way to go.

So yeah, I may be a bit biased but I have my reasons.

I think alcohol has the ability to ruin lives, as does a lot of things.   
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« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2018, 12:08:38 PM »

This is turning into a far bigger issue than it needs to be.

We don't know if this victim was an alcoholic, whether she intended to have a family, etc. What we do know is that she went out one night and got intoxicated to the point where she lost self-control and I maintain that that is not an unreasonable thing to do. We are muddying the waters here by discussing the long-term effects of alcohol use and the effects that being an alcoholic can have on those close to you. Do I think that a life-long alcoholic or smoker can still be acting reasonably - yes, I do, but that is unrelated to this discussion. There is nothing in her actions that suggests bearing responsibility whatsoever because it is unreasonable to suggest that she should have curbed her drinking because she was leaving herself open to an attack from another person.
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« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2018, 12:14:41 PM »

This is turning into a far bigger issue than it needs to be.

We don't know if this victim was an alcoholic, whether she intended to have a family, etc. What we do know is that she went out one night and got intoxicated to the point where she lost self-control and I maintain that that is not an unreasonable thing to do. We are muddying the waters here by discussing the long-term effects of alcohol use and the effects that being an alcoholic can have on those close to you. Do I think that a life-long alcoholic or smoker can still be acting reasonably - yes, I do, but that is unrelated to this discussion. There is nothing in her actions that suggests bearing responsibility whatsoever because it is unreasonable to suggest that she should have curbed her drinking because she was leaving herself open to an attack from another person.

Agreed.   People go out in public and drink, often too excess, quite often.   That shouldn't open them up to what this person went through. 
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« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2018, 12:23:44 PM »

Neither one of you 'get' what I'm saying.  He was guilty and found so.  With that I agree 100%.  The fact that she was defenseless did not give him license to do what he did.  It was not an invitation.  It was not a reason for him to violate her.  The fact that she was in THAT condition, though, was HER fault.  She left herself totally vulnerable.  For that she HAS to take some responsibility.  There are,after all, consequences for actions...in REAL time.
I got what you said, Add Some. 3D You said the right thing. She shouldn't've got too tipsy if, clearly, she must be aware that when she drinks too much she doesn't think clearly. F.ex. some drink much & still stay with clear thinking. She doesn't. Which means she should've drink little.

Frankly, drinking is evil. Quit drinking, folks. It doesn't bring anything good. As strict teetotaler, I don't see the point in drinking. Even so-called social drinking. Not to mention it's got terrible taste going by the sharp fragrance. Hate it. I don't buy into its effect to lift the mood either. You, drinkers, delusioned by this myth. It, conversely, makes matters worse.

I'm not a goody goody by any means. I smoke enough weed to make Snoop Dogg look like Pat Robertson (although at this point of my life I mainly do it to help with my seizures). That said, alcohol does ruin lives and I have not had so much as a drop of drink in 4 years. My mother basically drank herself to death. My dad quit drinking when I was born; he lived another 23 years but he had cirrhosis and the end of his life was terrible. Seeing him decline like that f***ed me up. Besides dementia and/or Alzheimers, I can't think of a worse way to go.

So yeah, I may be a bit biased but I have my reasons.

Oh gee you smoke weed no offense but that is not a drug that is a medicine. You are talking to someone who just relapsed on glass recently no I am not proud of it ( and I am a couple of weeks clean now)but pointing out there are different levels. That is the only think I can say that can make someone do something horrible like what this guy did. Alcohol come on now he would have done something like this regardless. If he was really drunk to the point of not actually being able to control himself from raping someone, he would not have been able to get it up! Not to be too graphic but the term whiskey dick exists for a reason so I do not buy this for A minute. He knew what he was doing period and to put the blame on her angers me
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« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2018, 12:46:22 PM »

I don’t think anyone is putting the blame on her. I also think there’s nothing wrong with having a more nuanced discussion about these things, even being as sensitive as they are.
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« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2018, 12:50:29 PM »

I don’t think anyone is putting the blame on her. I also think there’s nothing wrong with having a more nuanced discussion about these things, even being as sensitive as they are.

I agree that I don't think anyone in this discussion is putting the blame on her. I also agree there's nothing wrong with having a nuanced discussion about the topic.
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« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2018, 01:03:51 PM »

Neither one of you 'get' what I'm saying.  He was guilty and found so.  With that I agree 100%.  The fact that she was defenseless did not give him license to do what he did.  It was not an invitation.  It was not a reason for him to violate her.  The fact that she was in THAT condition, though, was HER fault.  She left herself totally vulnerable.  For that she HAS to take some responsibility.  There are,after all, consequences for actions...in REAL time.
I got what you said, Add Some. 3D You said the right thing. She shouldn't've got too tipsy if, clearly, she must be aware that when she drinks too much she doesn't think clearly. F.ex. some drink much & still stay with clear thinking. She doesn't. Which means she should've drink little.

Frankly, drinking is evil. Quit drinking, folks. It doesn't bring anything good. As strict teetotaler, I don't see the point in drinking. Even so-called social drinking. Not to mention it's got terrible taste going by the sharp fragrance. Hate it. I don't buy into its effect to lift the mood either. You, drinkers, delusioned by this myth. It, conversely, makes matters worse.

I'm not a goody goody by any means. I smoke enough weed to make Snoop Dogg look like Pat Robertson (although at this point of my life I mainly do it to help with my seizures). That said, alcohol does ruin lives and I have not had so much as a drop of drink in 4 years. My mother basically drank herself to death. My dad quit drinking when I was born; he lived another 23 years but he had cirrhosis and the end of his life was terrible. Seeing him decline like that f***ed me up. Besides dementia and/or Alzheimers, I can't think of a worse way to go.

So yeah, I may be a bit biased but I have my reasons.

Oh gee you smoke weed no offense but that is not a drug that is a medicine. You are talking to someone who just relapsed on glass recently no I am not proud of it ( and I am a couple of weeks clean now)but pointing out there are different levels. That is the only think I can say that can make someone do something horrible like what this guy did. Alcohol come on now he would have done something like this regardless. If he was really drunk to the point of not actually being able to control himself from raping someone, he would not have been able to get it up! Not to be too graphic but the term whiskey dick exists for a reason so I do not buy this for A minute. He knew what he was doing period and to put the blame on her angers me

Was this supposed to be in response to me ? I didn't put any blame on her at all; if anything  I was trying to agree with you....if you look up the original thread on his arrest, we are mostly in agreement.  If I offended you, I apologize.

Never thought I'd see "whisky dick" on this board though Roll Eyes I actually had to look that up LOL  Good point on that, although I wish you would've chosen a different way of putting it.
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« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2018, 03:01:51 PM »

I took Lee's statement "Sometimes, although not 50/50, people have to share the blame" to mean that the victim, well, shared the blame. When I walk in certain neighborhoods in my fine city, I see people who are extremely vulnerable to criminal behavior everywhere. Still, I never consider stealing a woman's last dollar, mounting men for my own gratification, punching anyone out in order to get out my frustrations. If I were to do any of these things, I would hold myself 100% responsible for my actions. It would NEVER occur to me that the poor sick addicts would share in the responsibility for my choice to violate their rights to feel secure in terms of person or property. "Well, he was just lying there and the money was hanging out of his pocket, so..."

As for the drinking issue, I am always amazed at how people across cultures seem to not view alcohol as the drug it is. It never ceases to amaze me when I read studies calling pot "the gateway drug" for addicts. Right. I've actually never met an addict (and I've known more than a few, worked in a rehab center) who did not have their first sips of booze well before their first tokes of Mary Jane. And I've seen many, many more lives destroyed  by alcohol addiction than addiction to any other substance. I've accompanied people to AA meetings when NA meetings were not available, always sharing the caveat that one should never admit to being addicted to something other than booze because the reaction is swift and sure - the dignity of the other attendees is shored up by the belief that they are not like THEM. Sure, I'll have one mixed drink when out to dinner, but despise drunkenness. I wish that this woman was not drunk, for her own sake. But she shares no blame for someone raping her.
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« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2018, 04:28:14 PM »

To answer B.E. - what one considers to be inappropriate or excessive has no bearing, for me, on reasonable behaviour. At one point, it was widely considered inappropriate to engage in a homosexual act but, in my view, it was a reasonable act. So if people do think that, it certainly wouldn't convince me in any way that the action of "getting blitzed out beyond self-control" is unreasonable.

If your singular definition of reasonable behavior is any action that does not deprive (or potentially deprive) others of their freedom and self-ownership, then it's going to be met with some confusion. Beyond that, I agree with everyone who is expressing that the victim does not share any of the blame for Scott's criminal actions.
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« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2018, 04:56:39 PM »

2B.E. - good to see I'm not single poster confused by that definition/ statement.

Re: detailed discussion - maybe it's me being old-fashioned but frankly, things like wrinkly turkey neck don't bring anything to discussion. There's literally zero to gain in the topic at hand by discussing these issues.
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« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2018, 05:45:23 PM »

Wrinkly Grin turkey neck? Does that mean what I think it means? Smiley
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« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2018, 05:46:48 PM »

To answer B.E. - what one considers to be inappropriate or excessive has no bearing, for me, on reasonable behaviour. At one point, it was widely considered inappropriate to engage in a homosexual act but, in my view, it was a reasonable act. So if people do think that, it certainly wouldn't convince me in any way that the action of "getting blitzed out beyond self-control" is unreasonable.

If your singular definition of reasonable behavior is any action that does not deprive (or potentially deprive) others of their freedom and self-ownership, then it's going to be met with some confusion.

There's an important component you're missing - reasonable behaviour is primarily when one has control over their own decisions.

This is far from my "singular definition" - this is one of the primary tenets of Western philosophy, borne out of the Age of Reason.
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« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2018, 06:00:31 PM »

2Buckethead: Well, I can't know what you think it means. It's in reply to ChewBecca. Euphemism to chap's organ. It's boring to discuss such things, even if it's tangentially, distantly maybe related to the subject we discuss. It's not big deal in the grand scheme.
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« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2018, 07:26:01 PM »

Oh, that's what I thought you meant. On that note, I must go to bed and try not to ponder further.
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« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2018, 09:56:49 PM »

I think what she was trying to say was that if he had drank enough not to know what he was doing, he wouldn’t be able to get an erection in the first place, so basically he wasn’t impaired enough.
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« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2018, 10:26:41 PM »

2Billy: As I said, to discuss body bits in details like presented in ChewBecca's post isn't significant. There's time & place to get bluntly detailed but not here imo. Besides, didn't Scott not do technically the intercourse? IIRC, it's sth. else. Then effects of tipsy state to body wouldn't be relevant. The type of rape he did didn't include the "fudging".
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Pom pom generation thinks The Baby boomers can't hopscotch into admitting that they're ANYthing BUT cool & the boom they represent is archaic thing by now.
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« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2018, 10:47:48 PM »

Oh yeah no doubt. I was just trying to make sense of that post.
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