gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
680597 Posts in 27600 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 28, 2024, 10:46:30 AM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: When did the BB's begin to be thought of as a "nostalgia" act/as kitsch?  (Read 4269 times)
Miser
Smiley Smile Newbie

Offline Offline

Posts: 6


View Profile
« on: July 19, 2017, 07:13:29 PM »

Unfortunately, compared to many of their contemporaries, The Beach Boys are considered a nostalgia act by many, some band that is only notable for surf songs back in the early 60s. Unlike say, The Rolling Stones, they haven't really remained a popular, relevant mainstream act as the decades have gone by; they don't have the same level of respectability outside of their 60s hits. Unlike The Beatles, they're best remembered arguably for their surf singles more than anything else (It would be like The Beatles only being remembered for "She Loves You" and "I Wanna Hold Your Hand"). I'm a BB fan, but this is the perception I've seen from outsiders.

My question is several-fold:
When did it happen?
If you were the manager of the Boys in 1966, what would you have told them to do?
Were they considered as kitschy as they are now by many in the 70s, or did this sort of thing come later?

I ask because posts in other threads made me ponder this, and related questions.
Logged
KDS
Guest
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 07:18:53 PM »

After the release of Endless Summer in 1974.

Before that, The Beach Boys were actually progressing, releasing some really good albums in the early 70s.

But, after Endless Summer was a bigger commercial hit than those albums, the Boys packed the setlists with the older hits, and the studio albums never reached the quality of their 60s and early 70s work again.
Logged
RubberSoul13
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1297


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 07:30:06 PM »

They became a nostalgia act when they went "back to the beach". I don't think it was a sudden thing, but like KDS said, "Endless Summer" got the (beach) ball rolling.

With all the discussion going on I've been seriously thinking that the best thing this band could've done as a whole unit, was breakup in 1971 after "Surf's Up".

Carl and Dennis could have splintered off into a new hard rock/soul fusion kind of band and we still could've gotten a lot of the material that followed on "So Tough" and "Holland". Brian probably would've overdosed and would be on a grossly exaggerated pedestal like Lennon, Hendrix, Joplin etc. Bruce could've gone back into production and probably been a wealthy disco slum lord, while Mike develops the "Endless Summer Beach Band" and plays three shows a night in Reno every weekend. As for little Alan Jardine?...good thing he got that college degree.

THEN, maybe somewhere way down the road, all of these guys are still living and breathing, at least thirty years beyond breakup, and they sell out STADIUMS because they get back together and......do it again  LOL
Logged
tpesky
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1031


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 07:47:02 PM »

They were still a rocking live band post Endless Summer, so I don't think it was that.  I think the BB stopped being a rock and roll band after 1980 and became a lounge/oldies act. They brought back all the surf and car songs, did some awful TV appearances for their 20th ann with Carl gone. To me, that's where it started. They rocked on that 1980 tour and they never would do that again.

Thank God they didn't break up in 1971, we would have missed the best concerts they ever did.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 07:48:17 PM by tpesky » Logged
RubberSoul13
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1297


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2017, 07:51:54 PM »

They were still a rocking live band post Endless Summer, so I don't think it was that.  I think the BB stopped being a rock and roll band after 1980 and became a lounge/oldies act. They brought back all the surf and car songs, did some awful TV appearances for their 20th ann with Carl gone. To me, that's where it started. They rocked on that 1980 tour and they never would do that again.

Thank God they didn't break up in 1971, we would have missed the best concerts they ever did.

Those kick ass early 70's concerts still would've happened...just sans Mike Love and Al Jardine. Blondie and Ricky and most of the touring back line of The Beach Boys for that matter, likely would've been involved n this hypothetical fusion band that Carl and Dennis carry on with the Holland & So Tough material...and even more music, in this pipe dream of mine at the moment.  LOL
Logged
Lee Marshall
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1639



View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2017, 08:04:27 PM »

I'd say more '76 when Endless Summer was [oh-so-unfortunately] confirmed to be the  'new'  band direction with the release of a newly recorded studio l.p. called '15 Bigguns'.  No more Jack.  No more Ricky or Blondie.  It wasn't just Capitol reaping the benefits...it was  the "we give up...and here's the proof" Beach Boys.

sh*t!!!

Dennis didn't give up.  Carl didn't give up.  But the rest of them [Brian was out of the picture ...being prepped at the time, and much to his surprise I'm sure, to be "back"] sure as sh*t did.  Sha Na Na with plastic pails and shovels was alive...and unwell.

As an 'infamous' American would put it...and I quote..."Sad."
Logged

"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!  Jail awaits.  It's NO "Witch Hunt". There IS Collusion...and worse.  The Russian Mafia!!  Conspiracies!!  Fraud!!  This racist is goin' down...and soon.  Good Riddance.  And take the kids.
Love Thang
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 100


Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2017, 08:08:31 PM »

I always thought Dennis' death was the end of the group and that they should have disbanded afterwards. On the other hand, Keepin the Summer Alive is one shitty way to go out.
Logged
GhostyTMRS
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 722



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2017, 08:20:49 PM »

Based on anecdotal evidence (unreliable I know) but I think they were written off as something like a nostalgia act as early as the fall of 1967. I've been told by many who were in their teens and 20's at that time that the Beach Boys were viewed as an AM radio group like the Four Seasons and not part of any Beatles/Stones rock hierarchey. Some saw them as a safe alternative to the "serious" hippie scene (which leads me to believe these same people didn't bother to buy any of their current albums).

As one friend said about the release of "Do It Again"..."Finally, they put out something that sounded like them and stopped imitating the Beatles!" (don't ask me what that means).

The Beach Boys have a ginormous following of people like that...

One would think that with all the positive press from the "rock press" of the early 70's, jamming with the Grateful Dead, and even the Beach Boys themselves pretending not to like their early material and dissing it onstage to appear "cool" would've worked in their favor (and maybe it did for a little while) but as Ian Rusten and Jon Stebbins' book points out, that "play the hits" fan base was still there, louder than ever and growing.

*On a side note, those disses that the boys made on stage "Hey, if you want to hear surfing music, go see Jan and Dean", etc....God, I find that more embarrassing than even the flimsiest filler track on any of their classic early albums. Add that to the cringeworthy thread.

Logged
tpesky
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1031


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2017, 10:24:03 PM »

They were still a rocking live band post Endless Summer, so I don't think it was that.  I think the BB stopped being a rock and roll band after 1980 and became a lounge/oldies act. They brought back all the surf and car songs, did some awful TV appearances for their 20th ann with Carl gone. To me, that's where it started. They rocked on that 1980 tour and they never would do that again.

Thank God they didn't break up in 1971, we would have missed the best concerts they ever did.

Those kick ass early 70's concerts still would've happened...just sans Mike Love and Al Jardine. Blondie and Ricky and most of the touring back line of The Beach Boys for that matter, likely would've been involved n this hypothetical fusion band that Carl and Dennis carry on with the Holland & So Tough material...and even more music, in this pipe dream of mine at the moment.  LOL

I'd hate to imagine those concerts without Mike and Alan.  Listen to In Concert, Alan is all over it in the harmonies and the high parts not to mention some great leads.  Mike nails his leads.  But it's your dream so to each his own.
Logged
Dave in KC
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 630


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2017, 10:38:53 PM »

Certainly the tours with Chicago were full blown massive football stadium tours. Those were not nostalgia concerts. Beach Boys with the Doobie Brothers in the mid to late 70's were very well attended by very psyched up fans. Good for them/us. Then they did it again 10 years later. 1989. HUGE!  Bruce knows about our experience in Eagle, NE in June 1989 when we all were almost washed away.
Logged
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10029



View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2017, 09:54:51 AM »

One key turning point was not 1974, but 1981.

Keep in mind that the band didn't go "all oldies" all of a sudden in 1974 in concert. And, just as importantly, they still released a TON of new music. They released FIVE albums between 1976 and 1980. Of mixed quality of course. But they were still relevant enough that they could be called a recording act that also toured as opposed to a touring band that occasionally releases albums.

That all changed in 1981 in a number of ways. Carl had taken off, they had no new album material to promote and dropped *most* of the songs in the setlist taken from recent albums, and backfilled the setlist with stuff they hadn't done in eons like "409" and "Surfin'" and "The Little Old Lady From Pasadena."

Carl came back in 1982, and the setlist got a bit more interesting for a little while. But stuff like "Pasadena" remained in the setlist. They didn't come up with a new album for another four years. They had nothing *but* nostalgia to ride on at that point.
Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
KDS
Guest
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2017, 06:48:12 AM »

One key turning point was not 1974, but 1981.

Keep in mind that the band didn't go "all oldies" all of a sudden in 1974 in concert. And, just as importantly, they still released a TON of new music. They released FIVE albums between 1976 and 1980. Of mixed quality of course. But they were still relevant enough that they could be called a recording act that also toured as opposed to a touring band that occasionally releases albums.

That all changed in 1981 in a number of ways. Carl had taken off, they had no new album material to promote and dropped *most* of the songs in the setlist taken from recent albums, and backfilled the setlist with stuff they hadn't done in eons like "409" and "Surfin'" and "The Little Old Lady From Pasadena."

Carl came back in 1982, and the setlist got a bit more interesting for a little while. But stuff like "Pasadena" remained in the setlist. They didn't come up with a new album for another four years. They had nothing *but* nostalgia to ride on at that point.

My father saw them in 1981, and he said the concert was pretty bad.  Carl wasn't there, and he said on that particular night, Brian was onstage, but didn't really do anything. 

As a result, my father turned down my invitation to go see them at the 2012 reunion, and he's regretted it, but he's greatly enjoyed the two BW shows we went to in 2015 and 2016.
Logged
tpesky
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1031


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2017, 07:45:50 AM »

One key turning point was not 1974, but 1981.

Keep in mind that the band didn't go "all oldies" all of a sudden in 1974 in concert. And, just as importantly, they still released a TON of new music. They released FIVE albums between 1976 and 1980. Of mixed quality of course. But they were still relevant enough that they could be called a recording act that also toured as opposed to a touring band that occasionally releases albums.

That all changed in 1981 in a number of ways. Carl had taken off, they had no new album material to promote and dropped *most* of the songs in the setlist taken from recent albums, and backfilled the setlist with stuff they hadn't done in eons like "409" and "Surfin'" and "The Little Old Lady From Pasadena."

Carl came back in 1982, and the setlist got a bit more interesting for a little while. But stuff like "Pasadena" remained in the setlist. They didn't come up with a new album for another four years. They had nothing *but* nostalgia to ride on at that point.

I completely agree about the 81 turning point. Compare a concert in 80 to 81 and you can feel it.  80 they could be uneven but still had some great shows. 81 just has a different feel to it.  As Hey Jude said thats when all the older surf/car songs came back, Long Tall Texan gets an extended set list stay, and it's when Mike started devoting major attention and time to the performance of BTTYS.

They got a little energy back late 82/83 like a candle flickering but it went out for good after Dennis's death. Theres a huge difference between 83 and 84 even.
Logged
petsoundsnola
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 374



View Profile
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2017, 08:30:02 AM »

There are some very insightful responses, and I believe all are correct.

The Beach Boys thought of as a nostalgia act likely began around 1967/Monterey.  Over the ensuing years, they "bounced" back several times to a degree of "relevance", then fell back into the "Nostalgia" category, etc. from then until 1981 or so. 

Each "Comeback to Relevance" was not as strong as the previous "Comeback" and everyone continued to age, so that certainly didn't help things.  December 29, 1983 was a major setback. 

C50 in 2012 was somewhat of a Critical resuscitation (mostly because of the last three songs on the TWGMTR album, in my opinion), but it didn't last long.

So, the nostalgia perception has ebbed and flowed, each time the strength of the "Relevance" not able to outlast the "Kitsch."

Thinking in terms of positivity, perhaps the "Kitsch" is so powerful is because those early-mid 60's songs are just so damn timeless.

I'm not sure if that makes sense...
Logged
Jeff
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 545



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2017, 07:14:49 PM »

In a just world, the Beach Boys' name would have been retired after February 1981, and resurrected only briefly for the 2012 tour/album.  I have never understood how some of the same people who appreciate Pet Sounds, Smile, etc., can stomach anything else from the last 36 years.
Logged
Needleinthehay
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 195


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2017, 07:51:24 PM »

In a just world, the Beach Boys' name would have been retired after February 1981, and resurrected only briefly for the 2012 tour/album.  I have never understood how some of the same people who appreciate Pet Sounds, Smile, etc., can stomach anything else from the last 36 years.

I agree. I think part of the problem is some (all?) of the guys were bad with money and they couldnt stop touring even if they wanted to. I mean mike filed for bankruptcy in 1981, dennis was broke when be died. Assuming they thought philosophically it was the right time to quit so they dont turn into a nostalgia act, financially probably wasnt an option
Logged
RubberSoul13
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1297


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2017, 08:20:32 PM »

Mike Love would never think ANY time is the right time to quit. He would have to be forced out of it, no matter what year.

I think it's safe to say that not one member of this band has cared about a lasting "legacy" for the entire 55 years. Sure, some of cared more than others...I think Carl Wilson takes the cake here...and in a way, Mike Love does too. He just has a skewed perception of what a lasting legacy is and I think most of us here disagree with his definition of it. Regardless, none of the members have been the "keeper of the name" as they've ALL stood by and let these absurdities happen over the years.
Logged
MikestheGreatest!!
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 281


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2017, 01:04:30 PM »

I'd say the release of the  singles of Do It Again (retro in theme), then  Bluebirds, I Can Hear Music and Cotton Fields (trio of golden oldies) pretty well marked them as becoming a nostalgia act.  They rebounded nicely with their single releases from Sunflower and Surfs Up, but by then weren't taken seriously as a singles act.  And much as I liked some of those singles, they never did seem like potential hits to me.  Just really good records that didn't seem to fit in with the commercial sounds you were hearing on the radio at that time.  Then to get back to the top forty again, they hit with of all things, Surfin' USA again (an oldie), Rock and Roll Music (an oldie) and It's Okay (retro theme).

So uh, gee if they were viewed as an oldies nostalgia act on the radio, there are several singles releases to show perhaps why they obtained that image.  And of course the group name itself reeked of nostalgia after a certain point in time....
Logged
Jeff
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 545



View Profile
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2017, 08:42:54 PM »

And it's not as though the Breakaway and Add Some Music were remotely in line with contemporary music.  Good songs, yes, but they were both throwbacks to the doo-wop era.

I once saw people on this board wonder why Sunflower was not a hit like, say, the first Crosby, Stills & Nash album.  That just left me shaking my head.  They were both quality albums, but one caught the tenor of the times, and the other was nowhere close.
Logged
Pretty Funky
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Online Online

Posts: 5855


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2017, 10:06:01 PM »

All the dates have merit, but I can't stop thinking of that concert rider (from the 70s?) that stated the band was not to be referred to as 'oldies' in any publicity.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/beach-boys-rider?page=4

Now of course Mike doesn't give a sh!t.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 10:11:27 PM by Pretty Funky » Logged
gfx
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.602 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!