Mike Love Do It Again 2017 Promo FIlm

[rab2591]

http://www.petsoundsforum.com/thread/1675/perspective-on-beach-boys-remakes?page=1

Take note of the "usual suspects" remark in his post. Ever notice that the usual suspects are usually correct?

It's funny, because in the list that KDS meticulously assembled there is only one song there that had been reprehensibly reimagined with a guest star from the 90s for SOLO release that was performed BY THE BEACH BOYS on live national television on a major holiday broadcast.

The issue isn't recording covers, it's recording a solo cover (mostly unanimously decided BAD cover) and then using The Beach Boys band and name to promote that same solo cover single on live television...then promising to do more covers like this in the future. So pardon that a few of us have concerns that Mike will yet again steer The Beach Boys ship into an era that people will laugh and cringe about 20 years from now.

I mean, did we even watch the video? I did from The Beach Boys official Facebook page. Can't wait for more of these videos to pop up there.

I did watch the video.  I only listening to the single and watched the Capitol Fourth Event.  And I commented both here and PS that it's pretty bad, but at the end of the day, I think it's harmless. 

I will not defend the quality of DIA 17 because, let's be honest, I can't.  It's awful.  But the argument of Mike doing another cover, because he can't do anything original, or that this solo cover somehow taints the legacy is just something that I don't agree with. 

So you're okay with Mike performing admittedly terrible solo reinterpretations of BB songs using The Beach Boys touring band on live television?

As a one time thing, I don't really care.  If Bruce or Scott starts yelling "DO IT!!!  DO IT!!! DO IT!!!" at the shows, then I'd change my opinion. 

And there's your legacy right there. We're at a point where this sh*t doesn't even phase some fans. I guess after years of Mike's Beach Boys playing rodeos, parking lots, and sweat lodge tents in New England we've come to a point where a nationally televised holiday broadcast of a horribly autotuned 'Do It Again' featuring Mark McGrath lip syncing "do it!" on repeat isn't even anything to be bothered by.

Again I'll say, The Beach Boys 60s legacy will always be cemented as a crowning achievement of music. But sh*t like Full House, SIP, etc ARE remembered and that's part of the legacy too - legacy is what people remember about something - it's the memories handed down to future generations. Of course the music will always be there and it will always be admired. But embarrassing sh*t like this, thanks to the internet, will be apart of that legacy for the whole of the future to view if they so choose.

That's why I'll agree to disagree.  Plenty of other bands have done dodgy things, appearing on sitcoms, putting out crap albums,  touring with fractured lineups, mediocre remakes, and I don't think it affects the legacy.  

Look at how many young people go to Brian Wilson and Beach Boys concerts.   Do you think they care out an appearance on a cheesy sitcom or one subpar album (let's be honest, Smiley Smile and Love You weren't exactly gems either)?  No.  

KDS, picture a Beach Boys band that didn't do SIP, that didn't do Full House, that didn't perform a concert in the parking lot of the Lucky Strike's Lanes and Lounge in Anchorage Alaska. Picture a beach boys that actually had the maturity to not kick Brian and Al to the curb after the C50.

You realize the uproar that this single would have if The Beach Boys legacy weren't already tainted with all of this embarrassing crap? I'll go back to my Ringo Starr analogy: had he done this same thing with the Beatles name it would be a headline (negatively) in every music magazine out there. That's because their legacy is rooted in mostly tasteful acts that only benefit their legacy. Whereas Mike's Beach Boys have spent the last two decades topping each embarrassing act after the other, to the point where no one bats an eye at stuff like this...that's the effect it has had on the legacy.

Yeah, people are still going to listen to the music and go to the shows, I'm not disputing that. I'm saying clearly that the legacy (the sh*t people remember about this band) has been altered by this crap. The evidence is everywhere when you look at random YouTube videos of the Boys from the 90s, or when you have a casual conversation with someone about this band and they do laugh about the Full House appearance. Again, legacy just means what will be passed down (and what has been passed down) and remembered...that includes the good and the bad.

As for Love You and Smiley, gotta say at least those albums charted, music from both is revered by many. Polarizing? Yes. Artistic merit? Yes. Can't say the same about DIA '17 - didn't chart, it's pretty much unanimously hated, and it has zero artistic/creative merit.

I still don't see how an appearance on Full House can hurt them in any way.  If brought younger fans to the band.  That's how I was introduced to them when I was 8.  Who cares if people chuckle about an appearance on a cheesy sitcom?  

Sure, the Beach Boys might be a tad more respected had they packed it in before Endless Summer?  But, The Who might be as revered as Zeppelin if they retired after Moon died.   Plenty of bands / artists have made questionable decisions late in their careers.  It doesn't change anything.  With the possible exception of The Beatles, name me a band that hasn't some something to questionable to cost them some cool points.  

I'm saying it's all the embarrassing crap, KDS...not just full house. I mean, HeyJude brought up a great point about The Beach Boys being hurt after the C50 ending debacle. My point about the Beatles is that their legacy is on the highest most respected precipice because they've maintained their legacy partially by not being tacky with their image.

Whereas The Beach Boys legacy could be so much greater at the moment if Brian and Al were let back in (and if other embarrassing things were not done). If their legacy could be better then obviously something is dragging it down right now.

I will agree with you that the return of Al and Brian would bring more legitimacy to The Beach Boys as a current touring band, and they'd definitely be able to play bigger venues.  

The Beatles also retired after less than a decade.  The Beatles didn't stick around to put out a disco song, rerecord a song for a soda commercial, carry on after the deaths of key members, appear on a cheesy (but still beloved by many) sitcom, put out albums of questionable quality, etc etc.  So, you really can't compare.

KDS, that's exactly my point. Of course the Beatles are a different story altogether because they didn't go a Beach Boys route. I'm saying that their legacy is a shining star because Ringo didn't decide to tour as the Beatles, make a dreadful Beatles album by himself, appear on a sitcom, "fire" McCartney after a reunion, continuously rant about McCartney or Lennon's drug use. Etc.

I'm saying that Mike has made some godawful decisions that have indeed tarnished the image of the band...those godawful decisions are remembered when you think of The Beach Boys (their legacy). So in closing, yeah, I think fans have a right to be peeved about Mike continuing this behavior with no shame.

[KDS]

Again, agree to disagree

I don't think Full House or DIA 17 are any more questionable than continuing to wear striped shirts on stage after Pet Sounds / GV were released, bowing out of Monterey, and willingly becoming a nostalgia act after Endless Summer.   

[rab2591]

I honestly don't think Al would be criticized nearly as much if he did a solo tour with cheerleaders on stage.  

Well, it would be one thing rather than a litany of things over decades as is the case with Mike.

But in the moment, as it occurred, I think Al would totally be called on it if he did a very specific thing that he had previously very publically criticized (and was then infamously chastised within his organization for complaining about).

He's be called out on it, but not to the same extent.  

Heck, Nelson Bragg's girlfriend ran around the stage on a tiny dress during the encore at some dates of Brian's NPP Tour, and I don't recall much of a hub-ub about that.  Yet, Mike brings some girls on stage during Barbara Ann and he gets crapped on.  

HeyJude gave the reasoning for this in the quote you're replying to yet you seem surprised by this? Al doesn't have a history of doing utterly ridiculous things time after time after time, neither does Nelson. That is the difference.

[KDS]

I honestly don't think Al would be criticized nearly as much if he did a solo tour with cheerleaders on stage.  

Well, it would be one thing rather than a litany of things over decades as is the case with Mike.

But in the moment, as it occurred, I think Al would totally be called on it if he did a very specific thing that he had previously very publically criticized (and was then infamously chastised within his organization for complaining about).

He's be called out on it, but not to the same extent.  

Heck, Nelson Bragg's girlfriend ran around the stage on a tiny dress during the encore at some dates of Brian's NPP Tour, and I don't recall much of a hub-ub about that.  Yet, Mike brings some girls on stage during Barbara Ann and he gets crapped on.  

HeyJude gave the reasoning for this in the quote you're replying to yet you seem surprised by this? Al doesn't have a history of doing utterly ridiculous things time after time after time, neither does Nelson. That is the difference.

Right, but when Mike does something like release a dumb single, everything gets in a huff, and recounts all Mike's "sins" from the past going back 50+ years to the supposed "Don't f**k with the formula" quote.   And, in some cases, even go back and accuse Mike of being a heck, despite his contributions to the band during their hey day. 

[rab2591]

Again, agree to disagree

I don't think Full House or DIA 17 are any more questionable than continuing to wear striped shirts on stage after Pet Sounds / GV were released, bowing out of Monterey, and willingly becoming a nostalgia act after Endless Summer.   

Not any more questionable yet we still remember the striped shirts (those same shirts Denny got ridiculed for onstage in the mid-60s) nearly 50 years later. This is just yet another striped shirt moment - like you say, not any more questionable...but it is almost as ridiculous. Currently Brian and Al could be apart of this band, performing and making music. There's your legacy - it could be so much better, but instead we're reduced to hearing The Beach Boys perform Do It Again with Mark McGrath on live television. Sucks that their "legacy" is so great that it doesn't even phase some fans.

[SMiLE Brian]

I honestly don't think Al would be criticized nearly as much if he did a solo tour with cheerleaders on stage.  

Well, it would be one thing rather than a litany of things over decades as is the case with Mike.

But in the moment, as it occurred, I think Al would totally be called on it if he did a very specific thing that he had previously very publically criticized (and was then infamously chastised within his organization for complaining about).

He's be called out on it, but not to the same extent.  

Heck, Nelson Bragg's girlfriend ran around the stage on a tiny dress during the encore at some dates of Brian's NPP Tour, and I don't recall much of a hub-ub about that.  Yet, Mike brings some girls on stage during Barbara Ann and he gets crapped on.  

HeyJude gave the reasoning for this in the quote you're replying to yet you seem surprised by this? Al doesn't have a history of doing utterly ridiculous things time after time after time, neither does Nelson. That is the difference.

It kills my soul, hey hey hey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5AhcMhze1Q

[rab2591]

I honestly don't think Al would be criticized nearly as much if he did a solo tour with cheerleaders on stage.  

Well, it would be one thing rather than a litany of things over decades as is the case with Mike.

But in the moment, as it occurred, I think Al would totally be called on it if he did a very specific thing that he had previously very publically criticized (and was then infamously chastised within his organization for complaining about).

He's be called out on it, but not to the same extent.  

Heck, Nelson Bragg's girlfriend ran around the stage on a tiny dress during the encore at some dates of Brian's NPP Tour, and I don't recall much of a hub-ub about that.  Yet, Mike brings some girls on stage during Barbara Ann and he gets crapped on.  

HeyJude gave the reasoning for this in the quote you're replying to yet you seem surprised by this? Al doesn't have a history of doing utterly ridiculous things time after time after time, neither does Nelson. That is the difference.

Right, but when Mike does something like release a dumb single, everything gets in a huff, and recounts all Mike's "sins" from the past going back 50+ years to the supposed "Don't f**k with the formula" quote.   And, in some cases, even go back and accuse Mike of being a heck, despite his contributions to the band during their hey day. 

Perhaps because using The BEACH BOYS to promote the Mike Love single on live television is just another example of the countless moronic things that have been done to The Beach Boys name in the past few decades.

[KDS]

Again, agree to disagree

I don't think Full House or DIA 17 are any more questionable than continuing to wear striped shirts on stage after Pet Sounds / GV were released, bowing out of Monterey, and willingly becoming a nostalgia act after Endless Summer.   

Not any more questionable yet we still remember the striped shirts (those same shirts Denny got ridiculed for onstage in the mid-60s) nearly 50 years later. This is just yet another striped shirt moment - like you say, not any more questionable...but it is almost as ridiculous. Currently Brian and Al could be apart of this band, performing and making music. There's your legacy - it could be so much better, but instead we're reduced to hearing The Beach Boys perform Do It Again with Mark McGrath on live television. Sucks that their "legacy" is so great that it doesn't even phase some fans.

Even if The Beach Boys stayed together and did a follow up to TWGMTR, people would still b*tch about Mike's songs.  So, instead of an album of 11 Brian songs and 5 Mike songs, in 2015, Brian Wilson put an album of 16 Brian songs.  

To me, it makes more sense for the two sides to be separate at this point.  Both sides are content.  Brian gets to create when he wants to.   Mike gets to do his thing.   I see nothing wrong with the current arrangement.  

Maybe one day, they'll all get back together and do it again, again for a big farewell tour.  But, until that day (if it even comes) you can two top notch bands out there doing legendary music.  Sounds like a good legacy to me.  

[HeyJude]

Again, agree to disagree

I don't think Full House or DIA 17 are any more questionable than continuing to wear striped shirts on stage after Pet Sounds / GV were released, bowing out of Monterey, and willingly becoming a nostalgia act after Endless Summer.  

Well, first of all, nobody as far as I know claimed Full House or the DIA single are the most heinous decisions in the group's history, nor was anybody claiming those decisions were worse than other, older decisions in the group's history.

Again, a lot of this is context. If you're making conversation with someone in 2017 and mention you like the Beach Boys, you're about a BILLION times more likely to get a joking, derisive comment about Stamos or Full House than you are a comment about "oh, isn't that the band that backed out of Monterey in '67?"

Further, the striped shirts and backing out of Monterey and post-Endless Summer drop-off in creating new material are all HEAVILY CITED important events in every biography of the band. Nobody is ignoring those events and their respective negative impacts on the band.

The point is that *after* they became a "nostalgia act" in the 80s, they then *went on* to have that Stamos/Full House association, *further cementing* the novelty aspect of the band over artistic integrity.

It's a cumulative thing. If any single event that we cite as things that injured the band's legacy had occurred, that single event typically wouldn't be as a big of a deal. If the BBs had been cutting albums throughout the 80s to at least mixed if not positive critical response, and then one time did a quick appearance on "Full House" to plug a single, it wouldn't be a huge deal. The problem is that they were already artistically stagnant, and then went on to have a years-long association with the sitcom (which itself was and is critically derided), and continues over 30 years later to have an association with Stamos.

Nobody hears about Stamos's upcoming appearance at a Mike gig and says "Wow, I really love his musicianship. He's really going to add to the sound." No, he's another *novelty.* "Oooh, Uncle Jesse is going to be at that show!" The people who dig Stamos being at Mike gigs like it because they're seeing Stamos, not because he adds anything musically. Again, that's a novelty thing, not a music thing.

[BBs Footage Saga]

https://youtu.be/ZfLDHJtuyas?t=1m38s

[HeyJude]

Again, agree to disagree

I don't think Full House or DIA 17 are any more questionable than continuing to wear striped shirts on stage after Pet Sounds / GV were released, bowing out of Monterey, and willingly becoming a nostalgia act after Endless Summer.   

Not any more questionable yet we still remember the striped shirts (those same shirts Denny got ridiculed for onstage in the mid-60s) nearly 50 years later. This is just yet another striped shirt moment - like you say, not any more questionable...but it is almost as ridiculous. Currently Brian and Al could be apart of this band, performing and making music. There's your legacy - it could be so much better, but instead we're reduced to hearing The Beach Boys perform Do It Again with Mark McGrath on live television. Sucks that their "legacy" is so great that it doesn't even phase some fans.

Even if The Beach Boys stayed together and did a follow up to TWGMTR, people would still b*tch about Mike's songs.  So, instead of an album of 11 Brian songs and 5 Mike songs, in 2015, Brian Wilson put an album of 16 Brian songs.  

To me, it makes more sense for the two sides to be separate at this point.  Both sides are content.  Brian gets to create when he wants to.   Mike gets to do his thing.   I see nothing wrong with the current arrangement.  

Maybe one day, they'll all get back together and do it again, again for a big farewell tour.  But, until that day (if it even comes) you can two top notch bands out there doing legendary music.  Sounds like a good legacy to me.  

If your idea of a good legacy is that "litigious" and "splintered" and "reunion ended poorly" and "one guy pays a license fee to use the name" are all there in a career-spanning summary/bio, then I'm not sure what can change your mind.

Every band that has been splintered is remembered in part for that divisive nature. Journey? Part of the story will always be Steve Perry being continually replaced by tribute band singers. Styx? Supertramp? Chicago? Part of the bio will always be that they jettisoned the guy that wrote and sang many if not most of their hits. If any of those bands had (or in the future do) get it all back together and *end it* on that note, then all of that tumultuous stuff will at least have that unity to end the story.

Not so with the Beach Boys. The story right now ends not with "Two band out there instead of one! More music for everybody!" It ends with Mike quitting the band, tossing Brian and Al aside, and then slagging Brian in interview after interview. It ends with Mike being Lou Christie and Brian being the real deal. It's bad for entire band's legacy, but even worse for Mike. If he toured under his name, he'd only be (mostly) damaging his own legacy. But as he continues to actively ruin his own rep, he pulls the brand down a little bit too.

In 50 years when looking at the bio, nobody is going to care that Scott Totten sounded good singing "Ballad of Ole Betsy" at "Beach Boys" concerts. They're going to know Mike quit the band then took the name back and the band most likely ended their careers splintered and devalued.

[HeyJude]

https://youtu.be/ZfLDHJtuyas?t=1m38s

Many of the comments in videos like that probably help to explain why Mike keeps Stamos in the picture. Clearly a ton of people like Stamos *more* than they like Mike.

[rab2591]

Again, agree to disagree

I don't think Full House or DIA 17 are any more questionable than continuing to wear striped shirts on stage after Pet Sounds / GV were released, bowing out of Monterey, and willingly becoming a nostalgia act after Endless Summer.   

Not any more questionable yet we still remember the striped shirts (those same shirts Denny got ridiculed for onstage in the mid-60s) nearly 50 years later. This is just yet another striped shirt moment - like you say, not any more questionable...but it is almost as ridiculous. Currently Brian and Al could be apart of this band, performing and making music. There's your legacy - it could be so much better, but instead we're reduced to hearing The Beach Boys perform Do It Again with Mark McGrath on live television. Sucks that their "legacy" is so great that it doesn't even phase some fans.

Even if The Beach Boys stayed together and did a follow up to TWGMTR, people would still b*tch about Mike's songs.  So, instead of an album of 11 Brian songs and 5 Mike songs, in 2015, Brian Wilson put an album of 16 Brian songs.  

I thought we were talking about the legacy (that is what your post on PS forum revolved around). Of course people would still bitch about Mike even if he walked on water. My response to the heart of his discussion is that the legacy has been altered by some of Mike's actions over time compared to what the legacy could be, there's no denying that. Their 60s output is cemented as being some of the greatest music and that legacy will never change (both Mike and Brian are revered for their work in this era, and they always will be). Doesn't dispute that The Beach Boys legacy as a whole also carries Full House, SIP, and now this, and who knows what is coming down the pike. So yeah, what's harmless in a little chuckle about Full House? What's harmless about the countless blogs that have reviewed SIP on the web? What's harmless about the negative press after the C50 debacle? It's just a continuous cycle that some fans get irritated about because it all adds up and piles on and all of a sudden some fans don't even bat an eye when a horrendously mixed autotune nightmare solo reimagined cover becomes the center of a nationally televised broadcast.

It's a shame these legitimate gripes are enough to spark a whole thread on the PS forum for people to vent their pent up angst about the matter. Seems very logical to me that fans would be peeved about this move by Mike.

[SMiLE Brian]

https://youtu.be/ZfLDHJtuyas?t=1m38s

Many of the comments in videos like that probably help to explain why Mike keeps Stamos in the picture. Clearly a ton of people like Stamos *more* than they like Mike.

Its a cougar trap!

[KDS]

Again, agree to disagree

I don't think Full House or DIA 17 are any more questionable than continuing to wear striped shirts on stage after Pet Sounds / GV were released, bowing out of Monterey, and willingly becoming a nostalgia act after Endless Summer.  

Well, first of all, nobody as far as I know claimed Full House or the DIA single are the most heinous decisions in the group's history, nor was anybody claiming those decisions were worse than other, older decisions in the group's history.

Then, why does it keep coming up in conversation?  And I'm not talking the Stamos association so much as the 1988 episode with Mike, Brian, Carl, Al, and Bruce.   Is it because the "too cool for school" crowd has deemed the show a travesty of pop culture cheesiness?  Is it because Home Improvement was past it's peak when The Beach Boys appeared on that show?  

[rab2591]

Hey Jude, great set of posts above. Agreed fully.

[KDS]

Again, agree to disagree

I don't think Full House or DIA 17 are any more questionable than continuing to wear striped shirts on stage after Pet Sounds / GV were released, bowing out of Monterey, and willingly becoming a nostalgia act after Endless Summer.   

Not any more questionable yet we still remember the striped shirts (those same shirts Denny got ridiculed for onstage in the mid-60s) nearly 50 years later. This is just yet another striped shirt moment - like you say, not any more questionable...but it is almost as ridiculous. Currently Brian and Al could be apart of this band, performing and making music. There's your legacy - it could be so much better, but instead we're reduced to hearing The Beach Boys perform Do It Again with Mark McGrath on live television. Sucks that their "legacy" is so great that it doesn't even phase some fans.

Even if The Beach Boys stayed together and did a follow up to TWGMTR, people would still b*tch about Mike's songs.  So, instead of an album of 11 Brian songs and 5 Mike songs, in 2015, Brian Wilson put an album of 16 Brian songs.  

I thought we were talking about the legacy (that is what your post on PS forum revolved around). Of course people would still bitch about Mike even if he walked on water. My response to the heart of his discussion is that the legacy has been altered by some of Mike's actions over time compared to what the legacy could be, there's no denying that. Their 60s output is cemented as being some of the greatest music and that legacy will never change (both Mike and Brian are revered for their work in this era, and they always will be). Doesn't dispute that The Beach Boys legacy as a whole also carries Full House, SIP, and now this, and who knows what is coming down the pike. So yeah, what's harmless in a little chuckle about Full House? What's harmless about the countless blogs that have reviewed SIP on the web? What's harmless about the negative press after the C50 debacle? It's just a continuous cycle that some fans get irritated about because it all adds up and piles on and all of a sudden some fans don't even bat an eye when a horrendously mixed autotune nightmare solo reimagined cover becomes the center of a nationally televised broadcast.

It's a shame these legitimate gripes are enough to spark a whole thread on the PS forum for people to vent their pent up angst about the matter. Seems very logical to me that fans would be peeved about this move by Mike.

Once again, it's a stupid single.  If you look at the posts on Pet Sounds Forum, I don't think anyone is defending the single.  At best, they're laughing at the absurdity of it.  Yet, here, the Brian Wilson Forum, and social media, it's turned into the usual predictable Mike Love Hate-Fest.  "It's killing the legacy!!"  "Take the license away from him!!"  Blah blah blah.  It's bunk. 

[rab2591]

Again, agree to disagree

I don't think Full House or DIA 17 are any more questionable than continuing to wear striped shirts on stage after Pet Sounds / GV were released, bowing out of Monterey, and willingly becoming a nostalgia act after Endless Summer.   

Not any more questionable yet we still remember the striped shirts (those same shirts Denny got ridiculed for onstage in the mid-60s) nearly 50 years later. This is just yet another striped shirt moment - like you say, not any more questionable...but it is almost as ridiculous. Currently Brian and Al could be apart of this band, performing and making music. There's your legacy - it could be so much better, but instead we're reduced to hearing The Beach Boys perform Do It Again with Mark McGrath on live television. Sucks that their "legacy" is so great that it doesn't even phase some fans.

Even if The Beach Boys stayed together and did a follow up to TWGMTR, people would still b*tch about Mike's songs.  So, instead of an album of 11 Brian songs and 5 Mike songs, in 2015, Brian Wilson put an album of 16 Brian songs.  

I thought we were talking about the legacy (that is what your post on PS forum revolved around). Of course people would still bitch about Mike even if he walked on water. My response to the heart of his discussion is that the legacy has been altered by some of Mike's actions over time compared to what the legacy could be, there's no denying that. Their 60s output is cemented as being some of the greatest music and that legacy will never change (both Mike and Brian are revered for their work in this era, and they always will be). Doesn't dispute that The Beach Boys legacy as a whole also carries Full House, SIP, and now this, and who knows what is coming down the pike. So yeah, what's harmless in a little chuckle about Full House? What's harmless about the countless blogs that have reviewed SIP on the web? What's harmless about the negative press after the C50 debacle? It's just a continuous cycle that some fans get irritated about because it all adds up and piles on and all of a sudden some fans don't even bat an eye when a horrendously mixed autotune nightmare solo reimagined cover becomes the center of a nationally televised broadcast.

It's a shame these legitimate gripes are enough to spark a whole thread on the PS forum for people to vent their pent up angst about the matter. Seems very logical to me that fans would be peeved about this move by Mike.

Once again, it's a stupid single.  If you look at the posts on Pet Sounds Forum, I don't think anyone is defending the single.  At best, they're laughing at the absurdity of it.  Yet, here, the Brian Wilson Forum, and social media, it's turned into the usual predictable Mike Love Hate-Fest.  "It's killing the legacy!!"  "Take the license away from him!!"  Blah blah blah.  It's bunk. 

Annnnnnnd once again, yes, it's one stupid single....just another stupid thing OF SO MANY COUNLTESS SNAFUS. That is and has been my point, it's even written so clearly in the post you're replying to. All these things add up to the point that the standard for The Beach Boys is so low that some fans are totally okay with that live televised performance on the Fourth. That's my problem with the legacy right now. And that is as simply as I can put it.

[KDS]

Again, agree to disagree

I don't think Full House or DIA 17 are any more questionable than continuing to wear striped shirts on stage after Pet Sounds / GV were released, bowing out of Monterey, and willingly becoming a nostalgia act after Endless Summer.   

Not any more questionable yet we still remember the striped shirts (those same shirts Denny got ridiculed for onstage in the mid-60s) nearly 50 years later. This is just yet another striped shirt moment - like you say, not any more questionable...but it is almost as ridiculous. Currently Brian and Al could be apart of this band, performing and making music. There's your legacy - it could be so much better, but instead we're reduced to hearing The Beach Boys perform Do It Again with Mark McGrath on live television. Sucks that their "legacy" is so great that it doesn't even phase some fans.

Even if The Beach Boys stayed together and did a follow up to TWGMTR, people would still b*tch about Mike's songs.  So, instead of an album of 11 Brian songs and 5 Mike songs, in 2015, Brian Wilson put an album of 16 Brian songs.  

To me, it makes more sense for the two sides to be separate at this point.  Both sides are content.  Brian gets to create when he wants to.   Mike gets to do his thing.   I see nothing wrong with the current arrangement.  

Maybe one day, they'll all get back together and do it again, again for a big farewell tour.  But, until that day (if it even comes) you can two top notch bands out there doing legendary music.  Sounds like a good legacy to me.  

In 50 years when looking at the bio, nobody is going to care that Scott Totten sounded good singing "Ballad of Ole Betsy" at "Beach Boys" concerts. They're going to know Mike quit the band then took the name back and the band most likely ended their careers splintered and devalued.

Fifty years from now, most of what  people are going to talk about in regards to The Beach Boys is that they put out one of the greatest albums of all time, and released a string of some of the greatest singles of all time.   In many ways, that's all people think about now outside of the BB fan world.  

[KDS]

Again, agree to disagree

I don't think Full House or DIA 17 are any more questionable than continuing to wear striped shirts on stage after Pet Sounds / GV were released, bowing out of Monterey, and willingly becoming a nostalgia act after Endless Summer.   

Not any more questionable yet we still remember the striped shirts (those same shirts Denny got ridiculed for onstage in the mid-60s) nearly 50 years later. This is just yet another striped shirt moment - like you say, not any more questionable...but it is almost as ridiculous. Currently Brian and Al could be apart of this band, performing and making music. There's your legacy - it could be so much better, but instead we're reduced to hearing The Beach Boys perform Do It Again with Mark McGrath on live television. Sucks that their "legacy" is so great that it doesn't even phase some fans.

Even if The Beach Boys stayed together and did a follow up to TWGMTR, people would still b*tch about Mike's songs.  So, instead of an album of 11 Brian songs and 5 Mike songs, in 2015, Brian Wilson put an album of 16 Brian songs.  

I thought we were talking about the legacy (that is what your post on PS forum revolved around). Of course people would still bitch about Mike even if he walked on water. My response to the heart of his discussion is that the legacy has been altered by some of Mike's actions over time compared to what the legacy could be, there's no denying that. Their 60s output is cemented as being some of the greatest music and that legacy will never change (both Mike and Brian are revered for their work in this era, and they always will be). Doesn't dispute that The Beach Boys legacy as a whole also carries Full House, SIP, and now this, and who knows what is coming down the pike. So yeah, what's harmless in a little chuckle about Full House? What's harmless about the countless blogs that have reviewed SIP on the web? What's harmless about the negative press after the C50 debacle? It's just a continuous cycle that some fans get irritated about because it all adds up and piles on and all of a sudden some fans don't even bat an eye when a horrendously mixed autotune nightmare solo reimagined cover becomes the center of a nationally televised broadcast.

It's a shame these legitimate gripes are enough to spark a whole thread on the PS forum for people to vent their pent up angst about the matter. Seems very logical to me that fans would be peeved about this move by Mike.

Once again, it's a stupid single.  If you look at the posts on Pet Sounds Forum, I don't think anyone is defending the single.  At best, they're laughing at the absurdity of it.  Yet, here, the Brian Wilson Forum, and social media, it's turned into the usual predictable Mike Love Hate-Fest.  "It's killing the legacy!!"  "Take the license away from him!!"  Blah blah blah.  It's bunk. 

Annnnnnnd once again, yes, it's one stupid single....just another stupid thing OF SO MANY COUNLTESS SNAFUS. That is and has been my point, it's even written so clearly in the post you're replying to. All these things add up to the point that the standard for The Beach Boys is so low that some fans are totally okay with that live televised performance on the Fourth. That's my problem with the legacy right now. And that is as simply as I can put it.

Fair enough.  That's your viewpoint.  I respectfully disagree. 

[Jim V.]

Again, agree to disagree

I don't think Full House or DIA 17 are any more questionable than continuing to wear striped shirts on stage after Pet Sounds / GV were released, bowing out of Monterey, and willingly becoming a nostalgia act after Endless Summer.   

Not any more questionable yet we still remember the striped shirts (those same shirts Denny got ridiculed for onstage in the mid-60s) nearly 50 years later. This is just yet another striped shirt moment - like you say, not any more questionable...but it is almost as ridiculous. Currently Brian and Al could be apart of this band, performing and making music. There's your legacy - it could be so much better, but instead we're reduced to hearing The Beach Boys perform Do It Again with Mark McGrath on live television. Sucks that their "legacy" is so great that it doesn't even phase some fans.

Even if The Beach Boys stayed together and did a follow up to TWGMTR, people would still b*tch about Mike's songs.  So, instead of an album of 11 Brian songs and 5 Mike songs, in 2015, Brian Wilson put an album of 16 Brian songs.  

To me, it makes more sense for the two sides to be separate at this point.  Both sides are content.  Brian gets to create when he wants to.   Mike gets to do his thing.   I see nothing wrong with the current arrangement.  

Maybe one day, they'll all get back together and do it again, again for a big farewell tour.  But, until that day (if it even comes) you can two top notch bands out there doing legendary music.  Sounds like a good legacy to me.  

If your idea of a good legacy is that "litigious" and "splintered" and "reunion ended poorly" and "one guy pays a license fee to use the name" are all there in a career-spanning summary/bio, then I'm not sure what can change your mind.

Every band that has been splintered is remembered in part for that divisive nature. Journey? Part of the story will always be Steve Perry being continually replaced by tribute band singers. Styx? Supertramp? Chicago? Part of the bio will always be that they jettisoned the guy that wrote and sang many if not most of their hits. If any of those bands had (or in the future do) get it all back together and *end it* on that note, then all of that tumultuous stuff will at least have that unity to end the story.

Not so with the Beach Boys. The story right now ends not with "Two band out there instead of one! More music for everybody!" It ends with Mike quitting the band, tossing Brian and Al aside, and then slagging Brian in interview after interview. It ends with Mike being Lou Christie and Brian being the real deal. It's bad for entire band's legacy, but even worse for Mike. If he toured under his name, he'd only be (mostly) damaging his own legacy. But as he continues to actively ruin his own rep, he pulls the brand down a little bit too.

In 50 years when looking at the bio, nobody is going to care that Scott Totten sounded good singing "Ballad of Ole Betsy" at "Beach Boys" concerts. They're going to know Mike quit the band then took the name back and the band most likely ended their careers splintered and devalued.

Totally agreed.


And actually I wanna get at another point. I know there are people on this board who despise Mike Love and would like him to be erased from BB history. However, my thing is, I'm pissed at dude for ending the reunion of my favorite band. I like having Mike Love within the group led by Brian Wilson. He's a key member. Even as far as recent material, I loved hearing his voice on "From There To Back Again" and "Summer's Gone." I even liked hearing him and Brian together on stuff like "Spring Vacation" and "Beaches In Mind." sh*t, I even enjoyed "Daybreak Over The Ocean," especially the vocal part with Brian, Al, Mike and Bruce during the beginning of the song. Simply put, I like hearing THE BEACH BOYS when they are TOGETHER. Now, is there any use crying over spilt milk? Nope. And I'm happy that Brian's group now includes Al and Blondie. Three of my favorite Beach Boys together, may not have happened if the C50 split up. But I'd still like if the group came back together and did some new material. And who can blame me? I'm a fan.

[KDS]

Again, agree to disagree

I don't think Full House or DIA 17 are any more questionable than continuing to wear striped shirts on stage after Pet Sounds / GV were released, bowing out of Monterey, and willingly becoming a nostalgia act after Endless Summer.   

Not any more questionable yet we still remember the striped shirts (those same shirts Denny got ridiculed for onstage in the mid-60s) nearly 50 years later. This is just yet another striped shirt moment - like you say, not any more questionable...but it is almost as ridiculous. Currently Brian and Al could be apart of this band, performing and making music. There's your legacy - it could be so much better, but instead we're reduced to hearing The Beach Boys perform Do It Again with Mark McGrath on live television. Sucks that their "legacy" is so great that it doesn't even phase some fans.

Even if The Beach Boys stayed together and did a follow up to TWGMTR, people would still b*tch about Mike's songs.  So, instead of an album of 11 Brian songs and 5 Mike songs, in 2015, Brian Wilson put an album of 16 Brian songs.  

To me, it makes more sense for the two sides to be separate at this point.  Both sides are content.  Brian gets to create when he wants to.   Mike gets to do his thing.   I see nothing wrong with the current arrangement.  

Maybe one day, they'll all get back together and do it again, again for a big farewell tour.  But, until that day (if it even comes) you can two top notch bands out there doing legendary music.  Sounds like a good legacy to me.  

If your idea of a good legacy is that "litigious" and "splintered" and "reunion ended poorly" and "one guy pays a license fee to use the name" are all there in a career-spanning summary/bio, then I'm not sure what can change your mind.

Every band that has been splintered is remembered in part for that divisive nature. Journey? Part of the story will always be Steve Perry being continually replaced by tribute band singers. Styx? Supertramp? Chicago? Part of the bio will always be that they jettisoned the guy that wrote and sang many if not most of their hits. If any of those bands had (or in the future do) get it all back together and *end it* on that note, then all of that tumultuous stuff will at least have that unity to end the story.

Not so with the Beach Boys. The story right now ends not with "Two band out there instead of one! More music for everybody!" It ends with Mike quitting the band, tossing Brian and Al aside, and then slagging Brian in interview after interview. It ends with Mike being Lou Christie and Brian being the real deal. It's bad for entire band's legacy, but even worse for Mike. If he toured under his name, he'd only be (mostly) damaging his own legacy. But as he continues to actively ruin his own rep, he pulls the brand down a little bit too.

In 50 years when looking at the bio, nobody is going to care that Scott Totten sounded good singing "Ballad of Ole Betsy" at "Beach Boys" concerts. They're going to know Mike quit the band then took the name back and the band most likely ended their careers splintered and devalued.

Totally agreed.


And actually I wanna get at another point. I know there are people on this board who despise Mike Love and would like him to be erased from BB history. However, my thing is, I'm pissed at dude for ending the reunion of my favorite band. I like having Mike Love within the group led by Brian Wilson. He's a key member. Even as far as recent material, I loved hearing his voice on "From There To Back Again" and "Summer's Gone." I even liked hearing him and Brian together on stuff like "Spring Vacation" and "Beaches In Mind." sh*t, I even enjoyed "Daybreak Over The Ocean," especially the vocal part with Brian, Al, Mike and Bruce during the beginning of the song. Simply put, I like hearing THE BEACH BOYS when they are TOGETHER. Now, is there any use crying over spilt milk? Nope. And I'm happy that Brian's group now includes Al and Blondie. Three of my favorite Beach Boys together, may not have happened if the C50 split up. But I'd still like if the group came back together and did some new material. And who can blame me? I'm a fan.

I thought TWGMTR was a great album, easily their best since Holland.   But, I think there were more factors than just Mike Love to the ending of the reunion.   But, that's a whole other topic. 

[HeyJude]

Then, why does it keep coming up in conversation?  And I'm not talking the Stamos association so much as the 1988 episode with Mike, Brian, Carl, Al, and Bruce.   Is it because the "too cool for school" crowd has deemed the show a travesty of pop culture cheesiness?  Is it because Home Improvement was past it's peak when The Beach Boys appeared on that show?  

One of the problems especially with the debate over how Full House and Stamos have impacted the band and its legacy (or standing or reputation or whatever we want to call it) is that it can quickly turn into a tired "culture wars" sort of debate. I've seen some others (filledeplage, etc.) either imply or state outright that it's some sort of elitism to suggest "Full House" is a cheesy association that is beneath the Beach Boys and their legacy.

Again, one single appearance on a sitcom is not really what we're talking about. I *would* argue that back in 1988, a popular network sitcom got *far more viewers* than a network sitcom gets in 2017, which is why a weirdly large number of people *do* tend to remember the specific Beach Boys/Full House association. And the association is not one that does the band any favors. Sure, there are some people who got turned onto "Kokomo" via "Full House" and then went on to be hardcore BB fans. But most of *those* fans immediately or soon after or eventually realized how much of a blight (to borrow a term Wirestone mentioned on this subject long ago) Stamos and that ilk actually was on the band and brand and legacy and all of that.

For some low-tier, flash-in-the-pan "celebrities", they have to hang on to the one thing that they're popular for, even if it's a case where they're a musician or singer or songwriter but they're most famous for some PR scandal or getting caught with a hooker or OD'ing or going to jail or something more innocuous but still embarrassing.

But the Beach Boys individually *and* collectively are far above that. They're top-tier in popular music history. They shouldn't have a strong association in the general public's mind with a so-bad-its-good 80s sitcom.

Mike does *himself* a disservice by *choosing* to associate himself with Stamos (or Trump, or remakes, or denigrating Brian in interviews, etc.), because he should be seeking out his deserved accolades for great lyrics in the 60s and his good vocal work, etc. It's Mike's fault that people remember him more for being apprehensive (at best) about "Smile" than they do for his excellent vocal work *on Smile*! Mike undid a TON of that bad PR by doing C50. He could have sang "Cabinessence" on stage with the full reunited band and undone a TON of that "Smile" PR crap. He just can't do it though. He has to ask Van Dyke Parks in 1992, 25 years after the fact, the *same* questions about the Smile lyrics. He learned *nothing* in that quarter of a century.

And that's how the industry felt about the Beach Boys in 2012. 50 years in the business and the perception was that they were still amateurs that had learned nothing about how to make real money and create real marketing and musical synergy.

[KDS]

Then, why does it keep coming up in conversation?  And I'm not talking the Stamos association so much as the 1988 episode with Mike, Brian, Carl, Al, and Bruce.   Is it because the "too cool for school" crowd has deemed the show a travesty of pop culture cheesiness?  Is it because Home Improvement was past it's peak when The Beach Boys appeared on that show?  

One of the problems especially with the debate over how Full House and Stamos have impacted the band and its legacy (or standing or reputation or whatever we want to call it) is that it can quickly turn into a tired "culture wars" sort of debate. I've seen some others (filledeplage, etc.) either imply or state outright that it's some sort of elitism to suggest "Full House" is a cheesy association that is beneath the Beach Boys and their legacy.

Again, one single appearance on a sitcom is not really what we're talking about. I *would* argue that back in 1988, a popular network sitcom got *far more viewers* than a network sitcom gets in 2017, which is why a weirdly large number of people *do* tend to remember the specific Beach Boys/Full House association. And the association is not one that does the band any favors. Sure, there are some people who got turned onto "Kokomo" via "Full House" and then went on to be hardcore BB fans. But most of *those* fans immediately or soon after or eventually realized how much of a blight (to borrow a term Wirestone mentioned on this subject long ago) Stamos and that ilk actually was on the band and brand and legacy and all of that.

For some low-tier, flash-in-the-pan "celebrities", they have to hang on to the one thing that they're popular for, even if it's a case where they're a musician or singer or songwriter but they're most famous for some PR scandal or getting caught with a hooker or OD'ing or going to jail or something more innocuous but still embarrassing.

But the Beach Boys individually *and* collectively are far above that. They're top-tier in popular music history. They shouldn't have a strong association in the general public's mind with a so-bad-its-good 80s sitcom.

Mike does *himself* a disservice by *choosing* to associate himself with Stamos (or Trump, or remakes, or denigrating Brian in interviews, etc.), because he should be seeking out his deserved accolades for great lyrics in the 60s and his good vocal work, etc. It's Mike's fault that people remember him more for being apprehensive (at best) about "Smile" than they do for his excellent vocal work *on Smile*! Mike undid a TON of that bad PR by doing C50. He could have sang "Cabinessence" on stage with the full reunited band and undone a TON of that "Smile" PR crap. He just can't do it though. He has to ask Van Dyke Parks in 1992, 25 years after the fact, the *same* questions about the Smile lyrics. He learned *nothing* in that quarter of a century.

And that's how the industry felt about the Beach Boys in 2012. 50 years in the business and the perception was that they were still amateurs that had learned nothing about how to make real money and create real marketing and musical synergy.

I happen to agree with the idea (held by filledeplage) of cultural elitists, looking down their noses at such things as Full House (I think youth could benefit from a show like that being on the air today.  My five year old niece loves the reruns).  It's the same reason I had a disagreement with a poster on here last year who said they couldn't enjoy a Mike and Bruce show as much as a Brian Wilson show because Mike and Bruce daring to put palm trees on stage. 

I understand the perception in 2012 about the amateurish mature of The Beach Boys, post reunion.  But, I really don't think that Mike is solely to blame for the reunion ending. 

[Jim V.]

Again, agree to disagree

I don't think Full House or DIA 17 are any more questionable than continuing to wear striped shirts on stage after Pet Sounds / GV were released, bowing out of Monterey, and willingly becoming a nostalgia act after Endless Summer.   

Not any more questionable yet we still remember the striped shirts (those same shirts Denny got ridiculed for onstage in the mid-60s) nearly 50 years later. This is just yet another striped shirt moment - like you say, not any more questionable...but it is almost as ridiculous. Currently Brian and Al could be apart of this band, performing and making music. There's your legacy - it could be so much better, but instead we're reduced to hearing The Beach Boys perform Do It Again with Mark McGrath on live television. Sucks that their "legacy" is so great that it doesn't even phase some fans.

Even if The Beach Boys stayed together and did a follow up to TWGMTR, people would still b*tch about Mike's songs.  So, instead of an album of 11 Brian songs and 5 Mike songs, in 2015, Brian Wilson put an album of 16 Brian songs.  

To me, it makes more sense for the two sides to be separate at this point.  Both sides are content.  Brian gets to create when he wants to.   Mike gets to do his thing.   I see nothing wrong with the current arrangement.  

Maybe one day, they'll all get back together and do it again, again for a big farewell tour.  But, until that day (if it even comes) you can two top notch bands out there doing legendary music.  Sounds like a good legacy to me.  

If your idea of a good legacy is that "litigious" and "splintered" and "reunion ended poorly" and "one guy pays a license fee to use the name" are all there in a career-spanning summary/bio, then I'm not sure what can change your mind.

Every band that has been splintered is remembered in part for that divisive nature. Journey? Part of the story will always be Steve Perry being continually replaced by tribute band singers. Styx? Supertramp? Chicago? Part of the bio will always be that they jettisoned the guy that wrote and sang many if not most of their hits. If any of those bands had (or in the future do) get it all back together and *end it* on that note, then all of that tumultuous stuff will at least have that unity to end the story.

Not so with the Beach Boys. The story right now ends not with "Two band out there instead of one! More music for everybody!" It ends with Mike quitting the band, tossing Brian and Al aside, and then slagging Brian in interview after interview. It ends with Mike being Lou Christie and Brian being the real deal. It's bad for entire band's legacy, but even worse for Mike. If he toured under his name, he'd only be (mostly) damaging his own legacy. But as he continues to actively ruin his own rep, he pulls the brand down a little bit too.

In 50 years when looking at the bio, nobody is going to care that Scott Totten sounded good singing "Ballad of Ole Betsy" at "Beach Boys" concerts. They're going to know Mike quit the band then took the name back and the band most likely ended their careers splintered and devalued.

Totally agreed.


And actually I wanna get at another point. I know there are people on this board who despise Mike Love and would like him to be erased from BB history. However, my thing is, I'm pissed at dude for ending the reunion of my favorite band. I like having Mike Love within the group led by Brian Wilson. He's a key member. Even as far as recent material, I loved hearing his voice on "From There To Back Again" and "Summer's Gone." I even liked hearing him and Brian together on stuff like "Spring Vacation" and "Beaches In Mind." sh*t, I even enjoyed "Daybreak Over The Ocean," especially the vocal part with Brian, Al, Mike and Bruce during the beginning of the song. Simply put, I like hearing THE BEACH BOYS when they are TOGETHER. Now, is there any use crying over spilt milk? Nope. And I'm happy that Brian's group now includes Al and Blondie. Three of my favorite Beach Boys together, may not have happened if the C50 split up. But I'd still like if the group came back together and did some new material. And who can blame me? I'm a fan.

I thought TWGMTR was a great album, easily their best since Holland.   But, I think there were more factors than just Mike Love to the ending of the reunion.   But, that's a whole other topic. 

Tell us why the reunion ended then in your opinion KDS.