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Author Topic: What does Mike want?  (Read 3026 times)
briansthegreatest
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« on: July 10, 2017, 11:21:01 AM »

After last week's buzzkill of the nourishment and revenge of Mike's solo "do it again" single, I honestly am at a loss at what the lovester wants for his legacy. The box set gave positive PR for him, yet he seems hell-bent on alienating fans and his (real) BBs bandmates BW and Al. Why does he seem so miserable for a man who claims to have everything?
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2017, 11:57:50 AM »

IMHO... I think the logic was either that "there's renewed interest at this very moment in time regarding the brand due to Sunshine Tomorrow - time to capitalize and get more attention for me!"... or that possibly, possibly, it was completely coincidental timing for its release to have been right after Sunshine Tomorrow, and that its release was simply solely JUST because of the July 4th event.  Hard to say. I think either of those is conceivable.

In the case of the song having guest stars... I can't imagine there are too many famous celebrities (or even quasi-celebs) that would be volunteering to collaborate on a new recording with Mike Love. Mike may be very well-known, but he's also infamous; I don't think many people are exactly lining up to do it. I mean, even if Mike reached out to celebs on his own (celebs from a younger generation than him), I wonder how many would actually agree to do it.

So when a couple of celebs, quasi/has-been as they may be, get all fanboy about collaborating with Mike (Stamos of course has been living the fanboy BB dream for decades), Mike naturally thinks that this is gonna get some renewed attention for him and the M&B show (which seems to be an insulated bubble that he surrounds himself with nearly all the time). Since McGrath's former bandmate is related by marriage to the Wilsons - and thus Mike - I would not be surprised if this idea of McGrath collaborating with Mike originated by them conversing at a BBQ hangout or something. Also, the presence of Stamos has surely gotten more of a gender/age demographic that Mike is courting to attend his shows to show up, and he probably thinks that McGrath will bring in more of that desired demographic. It may be as simple as Mike wanting more starry-eyed fangirls at his shows. Legacy, shmegacy.

To get to your question of what Mike truly wants for his legacy? Attention, adulation, and respect. Yet I think he is ONLY ever thinking of the short term "gains".  Yet he's SOOO completely, laughably out of touch with making music - especially when actively TRYING to sound young and with it/hip (for whatever criticisms people may have about Brian doing recordings to sound modern, I can't fathom how anyone could think this isn't way worse), it is just the most sadly ironic thing that the moment he gets an iota of respect for his 50-year-old contributions to Wild Honey, he squanders it on the recorded equivalent of a poo emoji.

It's as though Mike prays to the mantra of the famous Jack Rieley "blew it" quote to start his day, to make SURE that he makes that quote come true with his every action.

Mike's the ONE guy in the band who legit NEEDS rehabbing for his legacy/reputation. He's the ONLY guy within the band who is commonly laughed at by many music listeners/critics, a guy who absolutely, honestly needs some measure of critical respect to undo all sorts of damage; whether that's fair or not, it's the TRUTH. That's why Sunshine Tomorrow was the perfect thing to have happen to Mike, and that's why this turd coming out days later is perhaps ten times more baffling and tragic than if it came out at any other moment in time. DIA '17 may not have a hugely adverse affect on the band's legacy as a whole, but it certainly will take some steam out of the praise/critical reevaluation that people might have for Mike's Wild Honey contributions at this specific moment in time.

Any critic (or person on a messageboard) who might have been thinking of writing a piece that states Sunshine Tomorrow shows how much awesome/sadly overlooked stuff Mike brought to the table in '67, must now contend with the video memes that are spreading throughout the internet far faster than the actual non-meme recording itself; a reminder that anyone who might want to say the guy *isn't* really an assclown - and is in fact a talented guy in need of critical reevaluation - must now reconcile saying that in the face of a brand-new hugely embarrassing piece of highly-promoted (by Mike himself) content. For this reason, it's thus possibly the worst-timed release EVER in the history of the band. That's certainly the case for Mike's own specific legacy within the band. DIA '17 makes Kokomo seem like God Only Knows by comparison.

If someone gave Mike a directive to intentionally undercut the critical praise he was getting for Sunshine Tomorrow, he could not have done better than DIA '17.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 12:31:18 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
urbanite
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2017, 12:43:44 PM »

Has been Mike talked about the new version of Do It Again in any interview and why now?
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2017, 03:14:49 PM »


My humble guess to what he wants is to be regarded in the same light and creative level as Brian Wilson which, if true, pretty much puts the theory that he is a sick man, to bed. He's to a point where jealousy and an insane inferiority complex intermingle and nothing displays it better than the pervasive actions than he exhibits.In spite of all the perks of being a member of an amazing band (not M&B) along with the money was not nearly enough for this individual. He obviously needs to be on top of the heap with the same amount of accolades that Brian has deservedly received, incredible as that may sound! All in all, I'd say he was a very insecure, psychologically sick man.
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2017, 03:49:55 PM »

Good points OSD, for being "Mr. Positivity" he is one miserable man for holding himself to insane standards.
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2017, 04:19:27 PM »


My humble guess to what he wants is to be regarded in the same light and creative level as Brian Wilson which, if true, pretty much puts the theory that he is a sick man, to bed. He's to a point where jealousy and an insane inferiority complex intermingle and nothing displays it better than the pervasive actions than he exhibits.In spite of all the perks of being a member of an amazing band (not M&B) along with the money was not nearly enough for this individual. He obviously needs to be on top of the heap with the same amount of accolades that Brian has deservedly received, incredible as that may sound! All in all, I'd say he was a very insecure, psychologically sick man.

This X 1,000. Lovester is a despicable human being. Unfortunately he will out-live everyone other than Yoko Ono. 
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2017, 04:47:46 PM »

in my opinion, Mike has never really been concerned with music as art. it's commerce pure and simple, with the added perks of celebrity and the lifestyle it affords him.

if appearing on Full House or Baywatch gets him a slot on primetime, he will do it no questions asked. if having John Stamos or Mark McGrath will attract a slightly younger, primarily female audience, he's all about it. there is no regard given to "the legacy" or the artistic integrity of Brian's music. it's all about Mike's ego, being the star and the center of attention, and being the one in control. executive producer indeed.

Mike is not concerned with hardcore Beach Boys fans and what they may or may not want. he is all about the casual fan. the 4th of July and state fair crowds who know the radio hits and never bothered to go any deeper, and therefore don't know or care what a self-serving antagonist Mike has been for most of the band's career, especially the past 40 years or so. this approach has served him well lo these many years.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 10:53:32 PM by bossaroo » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2017, 08:26:55 PM »

Here is my take on it (and disclaimer, I have not read his book so my opinion about this is probably skewed)...

Most people who meet Mike at concerts have nothing but great things to say about the man. He seems to really love TM and, per filledeplague from a while back, he gives to many charities (one main one having something to do with music). He has no doubt written some of my favorite lyrics I've ever heard (and most of us here feel that way). Most fans like his unique voice and his voice is a staple to some of the classics that The Beach Boys made. He had a hand in making the number 1 hit Kokomo (and currently, and sadly, it's always in the number 1 spot on iTunes/Apple music on The Beach Boys page). He had a tough upbringing and works hard to ensure that he and his family (and those who work for him) will always have food on their plates.

I think part of him really does miss the hell out of the old days and would love nothing more than to travel back in time to when The Beach Boys were beginning to make it. As this isn't possible I think he's bitter about where life took his cousin, friends, family, over the years. He doesn't know how to express this irritation methinks, so he takes it out passive aggressively when he can. He takes it out in force during lawsuit season.

What does Mike want? My best guess is he wants to be back on the stage with Carl, Dennis, David, Al, Brian 1961. That's why he loves touring: these days he looks out and sees singing happy people every night, fans that adore his songs. Fans that don't get caught up in the cliques and sides, just people out there who love the music. He wants to make music with Stamos and McGrath, music with autotune so hopefully young people can get into this music and go to his concerts. He can't stand the depressing life suite because it reminds him of what he hates about life...which is why he wants to write with Brian to bring out some more positivity perhaps.

That's all my opinion about what he wants. Individually his reasons for doing the things he does sometimes make sense and you can kinda sympathize with the guy about a few things. Taken as a whole you're left asking yourself "what the hell is wrong with this guy?". The passive aggressive comments add up. The McGrath cover is so forced and it shows, yet again, a trend in much of Mike's songwriting from these past decades. Some past lawsuits show a lot of unnecessary hatred/irritation for a lot of people associated with Brian. Etc etc etc.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 08:32:57 PM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2017, 10:20:32 PM »

in my opinion, Mike has never really been concerned with music as art. it's commerce pure and simple, with the added perks of celebrity and the lifestyle it affords him.

Take for example, the story Mike always tells about the inspiration for the song "Wild Honey". Starting at that jar of honey, he's not thinking, "gee, this gives me a really good idea for this groovy song". He's thinking something more like, "I could maybe get a hit out of this idea", if that makes sense lol.
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 02:20:30 AM »


My humble guess to what he wants is to be regarded in the same light and creative level as Brian Wilson which, if true, pretty much puts the theory that he is a sick man, to bed. He's to a point where jealousy and an insane inferiority complex intermingle and nothing displays it better than the pervasive actions than he exhibits.In spite of all the perks of being a member of an amazing band (not M&B) along with the money was not nearly enough for this individual. He obviously needs to be on top of the heap with the same amount of accolades that Brian has deservedly received, incredible as that may sound! All in all, I'd say he was a very insecure, psychologically sick man.

For all of his many regrettable actions and shortcomings, literally nothing he has done or said over the last 50-something years has suggested this.  In fact, all evidence points to the opposite.  He clearly worships Brian, and has spent his entire musical career putting Brian and Brian's creativity over.  To me, this is another example of you actually being the sick one.  Your reality on this is totally off and you have been belching it all over the internet for years and years.
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2017, 03:04:44 AM »

I think what mike 'wants' has been discussed often. However what he 'needs' is for someone close to say 'Sorry Mike... thats just bad!'

Is he surrounded by people who say 'Yes' to every stupid idea he comes up with ie DIA 2017? If so they should hang their heads in shame.
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« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2017, 04:12:28 AM »


My humble guess to what he wants is to be regarded in the same light and creative level as Brian Wilson which, if true, pretty much puts the theory that he is a sick man, to bed. He's to a point where jealousy and an insane inferiority complex intermingle and nothing displays it better than the pervasive actions than he exhibits.In spite of all the perks of being a member of an amazing band (not M&B) along with the money was not nearly enough for this individual. He obviously needs to be on top of the heap with the same amount of accolades that Brian has deservedly received, incredible as that may sound! All in all, I'd say he was a very insecure, psychologically sick man.

For all of his many regrettable actions and shortcomings, literally nothing he has done or said over the last 50-something years has suggested this.  In fact, all evidence points to the opposite.  He clearly worships Brian, and has spent his entire musical career putting Brian and Brian's creativity over. 

Well, without getting into the debate of who might be sick, there were things like this that seem to offer an insight of sorts:

Quote
People say the Beatles were John Lennon. What is Paul McCartney? Chopped liver?
(from https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2013/jul/04/beach-boys-mike-love-interview)
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« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2017, 05:01:10 AM »


My humble guess to what he wants is to be regarded in the same light and creative level as Brian Wilson which, if true, pretty much puts the theory that he is a sick man, to bed. He's to a point where jealousy and an insane inferiority complex intermingle and nothing displays it better than the pervasive actions than he exhibits.In spite of all the perks of being a member of an amazing band (not M&B) along with the money was not nearly enough for this individual. He obviously needs to be on top of the heap with the same amount of accolades that Brian has deservedly received, incredible as that may sound! All in all, I'd say he was a very insecure, psychologically sick man.

For all of his many regrettable actions and shortcomings, literally nothing he has done or said over the last 50-something years has suggested this.  In fact, all evidence points to the opposite.  He clearly worships Brian, and has spent his entire musical career putting Brian and Brian's creativity over.  To me, this is another example of you actually being the sick one.  Your reality on this is totally off and you have been belching it all over the internet for years and years.

LOL

All bold quotes below are by Mike Love...

"Brian is a pathetic figure and one of the more pathetic things is that he did not give me credit for many, many songs which I wrote." Such as 2 of the shortest lines for the 'Wouldn't It Be Nice' tag that he demanded co-writer credit for, oh but he supposedly wrote more words for 'Wouldn't It Be Nice' during bathroom breaks on the Japan tour...to which Tony Asher said was "absurd". By these standards he should sue the hell out of the Beatles for as much as he has bragged about giving them the idea for the "Moscow girls make me sing and shout" lines. Because of 2 minuscule lines (that rhyme "my baby" with "my baby") he demanded to share 1/3 of the credit that went into that entire song. This is exactly what OSD is talking about: It is absurd that Mike shares a third of the credit for writing 6 simple words when you look at the complexity of instrument arrangements and chords alone...not to mention actual lyrics that Tony wrote. So yeah, he has done exactly what OSD called him out on. OSD isn't the sick one here, he just doesn't drink the Kool aid that other boards offer in copious amounts. Also, calling Brian a "pathetic figure" doesn't sound like worship to me...

"Brian's life is controlled completely — it has been since Gene Landy, and it still is — and he's medicated" ahh so the guy who is seen sitting by himself watching baseball games munching on chips at his favorite deli has his life completely controlled? The guy who can drive and walk anywhere he wants has his life completely controlled? And Brian is medicated? Shame on Brian for trying to get his bipolar/schitzoaffective disorder under control with actual medicine. This sounds like worship?

"Brian is controlled and still medicated. It used to be the indiscriminate use of street drugs, but now it’s prescribed drugs." Keep in mind these statements about Brian being controlled that I'm quoting are from 2014-2016. Where is the worship? For millions of people to see, he publicly mocks Brian being on prescription medications when in fact they are helping Brian overcome major mental health issues.

"I wonder about his health. He's overweight and out of shape, and he doesn't seem to pay much attention. . . . It's tough, when you've seen the Brian Wilson you grew up with and the Brian Wilson that's going to be onstage nowadays." This was Mike talking about Brian while they were on friggin tour in 2012. Can you imagine if the tables were turned and Brian was saying this about Mike (and what an ass Brian would look like if that were the case?)? Brian was around 70 years old at the time, had cheated death god knows how many times, completely turned his life around from the pits of drug abuse, and yet Mike just publicly calls him out for not being in shape. You call that worship? It's a total dick move.

"Unfortunately, Brian doesn't sing the range he once did." (from 2015) A 73 year old man can't sing his high falsetto anymore like he did when he was 20? You don't say? Yeah, that's nothing but worship right there. Again, imagine anyone else in this band saying that very thing about Mike Love...they would look like complete assholes for pointing out the friggin obvious.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 05:03:53 AM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2017, 05:03:02 AM »

 Rab, I forgot about those quotes! Grin
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2017, 05:29:30 AM »

Rab, you can throw out a bunch of the standard ML dickish/idiot quotes, there are probably plenty more.  But those have nothing to do with Brian's creativity and OSD's point about Mike wanting to "be regarded in the same light and creative level as Brian".  Which is specifically what I was referring to.

I probably should have worded my post to say that he worships Brian from a creative standpoint and JUST that- the way I worded it allowed you to take part of it out of context and into a non-sequitur direction.  Which to me is too bad, because I agreed with 100% of "your take" from a handful of posts back. 
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« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2017, 06:09:45 AM »

Clueless old guy tries to update his sound, makes an embarrassing record. It happens. No need to psychoanalyze.
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« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2017, 06:25:59 AM »

Rab, you can throw out a bunch of the standard ML dickish/idiot quotes, there are probably plenty more.  But those have nothing to do with Brian's creativity and OSD's point about Mike wanting to "be regarded in the same light and creative level as Brian".  Which is specifically what I was referring to.

I probably should have worded my post to say that he worships Brian from a creative standpoint and JUST that- the way I worded it allowed you to take part of it out of context and into a non-sequitur direction.  Which to me is too bad, because I agreed with 100% of "your take" from a handful of posts back. 

Firstly, I did address your point in my opening paragraph. Demanding 1/3 songwriting credit for contributing 6 words is trying to elevate yourself equally in the spotlight of two other people who contributed a whole hell of a lot more.

As for Mike worshiping Brian's creativity for his entire musical career...

Goldmine: Did you like his first solo album?

Mike: No.

Goldmine: You didn't like it?

Mike: f*** no.

Goldmine: What didn't you like about it?

Mike: First of all the lyrics. Second of all the arrangements weren't commercial enough. Third of all it sounded like sh*t compared to what he could sound like.


Or how about Mike publicly disliking the last few songs on TWGMTR (arguably Brian's most creative contributions to The Beach Boys - musically and lyrically - since Love You)? Or how about Mike not caring at all about Brian's solo single 'The Right Time' to take 2 minutes to listen and comment on it? That's not creative worship.
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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2017, 08:25:16 AM »

Didn't Mike also dislike the Til I Die lyric  (probably Brian's own best lyric) because he found it too depressing? His comment about Pisces writing from inspiration and Geminis from desperation is laughable. Even in the songs on which they collaborated, even the ones with the best of Mike's lyrics, IMO the level of talent required to produce the lyric didn't come close to the talent needed for the music. Some of Mike's comments don't just show Mike's jealousy but seem to indicate his lack of understanding of Brian's music.


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« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2017, 09:04:20 AM »

Understandably, he's still very upset about how drugs/booze eventually leading to Landy (and other factors arguably) led to the Beach Boys' post-"Good Vibrations" decline in pop culture, and that those factors destroyed his relationship with his cousin, too.

It started with "Pet Sounds" (as genius as it is) when Brian quit touring/got into drugs at the height of their success, inevitably alienating the rest of the band who were doing all the legwork on tour, leading to the collapse of "SMiLE," etc. "Good Vibrations" was a huge success, but they couldn't capitalize on it again due to  "SMiLE" capsizing and all sorts of lost potential and missed opportunities (none of which were really ML's or the other BB's fault — Monterey Pop, etc.).

He's bitter and has definitely made some mistakes in the public eye (and is very candid and honest in interviews for what it's worth), but ultimately, I think his frustration, intentions, quotes revolve around BW dropping out (in more ways than one) and that he is and will always be the "genius" and "mastermind," while the rest of the BBs are seen as his minions (or worse in ML's case).



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« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2017, 09:53:12 AM »

Rab, you can throw out a bunch of the standard ML dickish/idiot quotes, there are probably plenty more.  But those have nothing to do with Brian's creativity and OSD's point about Mike wanting to "be regarded in the same light and creative level as Brian".  Which is specifically what I was referring to.

How about this:

Who wants to hear about Brian's mental problems anyway? I mean, to call a record "Sweet Insanity", imagine that. A whole album of Brian's madness that no one wants to release and still everyone says he's a genius! I make "Kokomo", it goes to number one in the charts and I'm still the dumb, know-nothing, talentless Mike Love.
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« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2017, 10:06:40 AM »

Or that Evan Landy interview paraphrased "His point of view is something different than what BW is saying in L&M."
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2017, 10:10:35 AM »

You have to give it to the Lovester for being right on the money (as he always wants to be):

He still is the dumb, no- nothing talentless Mike Love!
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« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2017, 10:30:01 AM »


 He clearly worships Brian, and has spent his entire musical career putting Brian and Brian's creativity over.  


I think on one hand, Mike does indeed worship Brian's talents. He is in awe of them. But Mike really, truly, honestly thinks that Brian needs Mike's talents in order to be fully firing on all cylinders, and Mike doesn't want to face facts that Brian has every right to stretch his wings and work with other people (without having to face backlash, or statements akin to "even Pet Sounds was lacking without my involvement" from Mike).

At least Mike has admitted as such in some interview (can't recall which), where he stated that he was bugged when Brian worked with other people. Glad he can admit that, but it's an absolutely inappropriate point of view (yes, everyone should judge the hell out of Mike for that), because Brian is his own damn person who should be able to work with ANYONE he wants to... without friggin' toxic family guilt trip SH*T. End of story. Toxic, toxic, toxic crapola.

I believe Mike's awe of Brian only really occurs when it fits into a narrative of Mike being a major co-contributor. Mike's in awe of Brian's talents when Mike gets to write with Brian on those songs he's in awe of. The minute Mike's narcissistic aspects of his personality feel pushed to the side, out come the criticisms. I mean, the guy even found a way to put down Pet Sounds - 50 years later - by implying what it *actually* needed was Mike's input to be more commercial. He wants the public to read that statement, nod their heads, and think "yeah, Pet Sounds really should have had Mike cowriting all the songs... it's not good enough as is, Mike's TOTALLY right on that one! Yep!"

Here's a question... when has Mike EVER gone out of his way to speak with any kind of major praise of being in awe of songs that Brian wrote WITHOUT Mike? I'm sure Mike likes songs like In My Room, Don't Worry Baby, and God Only Knows, but it's not like Mike goes out of his way to advertise that Brian was (and is) fully capable of writing some of the best material in the band's cannon WITHOUT Mike's input.  He might have introduced those songs in concert and mentioned the cowriters' names, but that's probably about where the praise/acknowledgement ends, because again, it doesn't fit in with his narrative.

Mike in his heart must KNOW that those songs are generally speaking WAY more respected by BB fans (and have more emotional impact to many compared with BB songs he himself cowrote), which again only feeds his self-esteem issues, unfortunately. It should never be a competition, but in his mind it is a competition between him and other collaborators. Really, really sad that Mike can't just be proud of what he contributed without having to build himself up and remind the world for the umpteenth time of how he's somehow the Paul McCartney to Brian's John Lennon, when a) it ain't the case... and b) even if it were the case, he has no business repeatedly talking about it (that's for other people to say, not himself).

And I say that all due respect to Mike's input, which on occasion I absolutely LOVE on songs like Please Let Me Wonder and Kiss Me, Baby. Nobody should belittle the legit great contributions that Mike gave to the band, no matter how much Mike might bug the hell out of us. He cowrote some stellar material; that's the truth. He just continues to undo any chance of people being able to simply appreciate that great material by acting so foolishly so much of the time, and straw-grabbing for credit on WIBN (thus calling into question how much he *actually* contributed to other songs, since if he's gonna make a BS claim on that song, it very unfortunately naturally has to make one wonder about others).
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 10:55:12 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2017, 10:36:45 AM »

I am not even sure if he co-wrote those (warmth of the sun was their best imo)
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I don't see the point in punishing Brian's musical output solely because Mike wants to wow the President Elect with how long he can weeze "wheeeeeeen" into a microphone.- rab2591
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« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2017, 05:16:28 PM »

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And I say that all due respect to Mike's input, which on occasion I absolutely LOVE on songs like Please Let Me Wonder and Kiss Me, Baby. Nobody should belittle the legit great contributions that Mike gave to the band, no matter how much Mike might bug the hell out of us. He cowrote some stellar material; that's the truth. He just continues to undo any chance of people being able to simply appreciate that great material by acting so foolishly so much of the time, and straw-grabbing for credit on WIBN (thus calling into question how much he *actually* contributed to other songs, since if he's gonna make a BS claim on that song, it very unfortunately naturally has to make one wonder about others).

Very well stated
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Hi there. I am Billy. I am Smiley Smile's  resident left-wing ambassador. A snowflake if you will.
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