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616870 Posts in 24875 Topics by 3535 Members - Latest Member: doodledoo September 22, 2017, 10:46:37 PM
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Author Topic: New Mike Single  (Read 13324 times)
Dutchie
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« Reply #275 on: July 13, 2017, 12:56:01 PM »

The more i listen to it the more i like the 2017 version.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #276 on: July 13, 2017, 01:00:23 PM »

The more i listen to it the more i like the 2017 version.

You must have access to better weed than I do.
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« Reply #277 on: July 13, 2017, 01:02:55 PM »

And one last point, dont Brian and Al receive money for The Beach Boys name that Mike is licensing? If they are worried about their image, wouldn't they stop? I don't suspect that Brian at least really needs the income. So he or his team don't seem to be that worried.

The name is licensed to Mike by the Beach Boys' legal entity, Brother Records Inc. There are four shareholders -- Brian, Al, Mike and Carl's estate. Because there are four principals, it would take a vote of at least three of them to change the status quo. Carl's estate has no reason to upset the apple cart. Therefore, as angry as Brian or Al may or may not be, they still don't have the ability to stop Mike from touring if he fulfills the license conditions.

I would also mention that the license issue and how Brian, in particular, feels about it and acts (or doesn't act) is not a simple issue. I think the only person who probably actively wanted to strip Mike of the license was Al, and that was probably only for a the few years between 1998 and the early 2000s.

Carl's estate having no reason to object to free cash rolling in is a big factor, but not the only factor.

Even if all three voting BRI members other than Mike called a meeting to strip the license, the whole thing would *still* likely be tied up in litigation for *years.*

And *that* is part of the genius of Mike's business maneuvers in the mid-late 90s. Once the whole enterprise was established, it became very difficult to dismantle without severe financial consequences for the corporation and/or some of its members.

Al evidently saw this coming in 1997 (if not earlier), as evidenced by the description of his reaction to Mike bringing David Marks onboard in 1997. Yet, he couldn't do anything about it. He was the lone active dissenter it appears at that time.

In any event, as of 2017, I would guess the scenario is that Brian and Al recognize the huge set of drawbacks to trying to lobby or move towards stripping the license from Mike. So they're in this weird limbo where they aren't exactly super supportive of Mike using the name. Rather, they seem to just tolerate it, and/or are resigned to it. Not that there aren't drawbacks to doing that as well. Al (and Brian and Al on their tours together) have apparently been harangued on occasion for too prominently using the BB name to promote their shows.
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« Reply #278 on: July 13, 2017, 01:03:28 PM »

...ultimately this whole thing with solo Mike Love tunes being performed by a band labeled as "The Beach Boys" stems from the bad decision that was made around 1998 with the license and everything..."

The lines have always been blurry. This really goes back to the '70s and '80s when solo Dennis/Brian/Mike/Carl songs were performed at BBs concerts. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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« Reply #279 on: July 13, 2017, 01:05:05 PM »

The more i listen to it the more i like the 2017 version.

You must have access to better weed than I do.

C'mon, I think everybody is missing the obvious. The *2018* version is going to be the one to watch for. That one's just going to have Bruce on the lead and the guy from Smash Mouth, and maybe Urkel. Strangely though, it will still feature Mike on the cover, this time wearing a "Bruce Johnston" cap.....
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« Reply #280 on: July 13, 2017, 01:08:25 PM »

...ultimately this whole thing with solo Mike Love tunes being performed by a band labeled as "The Beach Boys" stems from the bad decision that was made around 1998 with the license and everything..."

The lines have always been blurry. This really goes back to the '70s and '80s when solo Dennis/Brian/Mike/Carl songs were performed at BBs concerts. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I don't think the two situations are quite analogous. Back in the 70s and 80s all of the living and willing members of the band were *in* the band using the name. The "touring band" and the "studio band" were one and the same. Had the 1982 touring "Beach Boys" wanted to release a re-recording of "Do It Again", it would have (or could have) been released under the BB name.

In 2017, the "band" essentially doesn't exist and instead Mike is a solo artist who, for concerts *only*, pays to use the BB name. So you can have the same guys performing the same song on stage and then on record, but under two different names. So the situation is more confusing because Mike as "The Beach Boys" is performing a Beach Boys song on stage, and then on record release the *same recording* (remember, they just mimed to the studio track for PBS) under Mike's name.

In 1983, the "touring Beach Boys" were essentially "covering" live Carl's "What You Do To Me" record. With Carl present. 

In 2017, Mike Love solo is covering on record a song originally recorded by the Beach Boys, and recorded in 2017 by a licensed "Beach Boys" touring operation.

A closer analogy would be if Carl had released his solo album in 1981, but then went out with his *solo band* without most of the other BBs as "The Beach Boys" on tour, playing stuff from his solo record and old Beach Boys songs.
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« Reply #281 on: July 13, 2017, 01:47:59 PM »

...ultimately this whole thing with solo Mike Love tunes being performed by a band labeled as "The Beach Boys" stems from the bad decision that was made around 1998 with the license and everything..."

The lines have always been blurry. This really goes back to the '70s and '80s when solo Dennis/Brian/Mike/Carl songs were performed at BBs concerts. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I don't think the two situations are quite analogous. Back in the 70s and 80s all of the living and willing members of the band were *in* the band using the name. The "touring band" and the "studio band" were one and the same. Had the 1982 touring "Beach Boys" wanted to release a re-recording of "Do It Again", it would have (or could have) been released under the BB name.

In 2017, the "band" essentially doesn't exist and instead Mike is a solo artist who, for concerts *only*, pays to use the BB name. So you can have the same guys performing the same song on stage and then on record, but under two different names. So the situation is more confusing because Mike as "The Beach Boys" is performing a Beach Boys song on stage, and then on record release the *same recording* (remember, they just mimed to the studio track for PBS) under Mike's name.

In 1983, the "touring Beach Boys" were essentially "covering" live Carl's "What You Do To Me" record. With Carl present. 

In 2017, Mike Love solo is covering on record a song originally recorded by the Beach Boys, and recorded in 2017 by a licensed "Beach Boys" touring operation.

A closer analogy would be if Carl had released his solo album in 1981, but then went out with his *solo band* without most of the other BBs as "The Beach Boys" on tour, playing stuff from his solo record and old Beach Boys songs.

Well, yeah, all situations are different. The point being that the "touring BBs" performing solo songs live has precedent going back decades. That's fact. I was thinking more along the lines of Pisces Brothers, as sweetdudejim had mentioned that song, so I admit that Do It Again 2017 presents an additional twist, but still...the point stands. I'd hope/prefer that a solo Mike (or Bruce) song was announced as such before being performed, to avoid any confusion. And I suppose I wouldn't have been opposed to the license barring the performance of solo songs, but it appears that is not the case. I assume that wasn't even considered ?
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« Reply #282 on: July 13, 2017, 01:52:20 PM »

...ultimately this whole thing with solo Mike Love tunes being performed by a band labeled as "The Beach Boys" stems from the bad decision that was made around 1998 with the license and everything..."

The lines have always been blurry. This really goes back to the '70s and '80s when solo Dennis/Brian/Mike/Carl songs were performed at BBs concerts. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Yeah this is bullshit. "The Beach Boys" as an entity at those times weren't a name loaned out to a member at those times. And due to this, the only things that could be done now are to showcase Mike Love or Bruce  Johnston* solo material. There is no chance for Brian or Al to incorporate, say, "Let It Shine" or "The Right Time" or "Waves of Love" as Mike has chosen to exclude them from the band by quitting the group in 2012 so he could then go on tour under the group's name but not have to tour with it's two other living founders.  So basically Mike is using his power given to him by BRI to perform Beach Boys material to also promote his solo career, regardless of how dead-on-arrival it is. And as big as the "Brian Wilson" brand has grown to be, The Beach Boys brand is bigger and gives a larger platform to whatever it is promoting. And therefore, what Mike is doing is NOT the same at all as Brian or Carl doing their solo stuff in the '80s.


*Bruce Johnston recording new solo material. Ha! That's a funny joke. That woulda required him to actually do more than clap and complain about Democrats for 30 years.

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« Reply #283 on: July 13, 2017, 02:16:20 PM »

The only reason Mike Love still has a career is because he can tour under the Beach Boys brand. Without that he'd be finished. 

Meanwhile, Brian has really built his brand into something very respected.
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« Reply #284 on: July 13, 2017, 02:19:34 PM »

The other question to ponder: does Mike actually *care* about brand confusion when he uses the "our" in talking about the release?

Does anyone actually think he cares? It's plainly obvious he only cares when he thinks brand confusion is a threat to him. I don't for a moment think he's exactly *happy* to be wearing the hat with his name on it. That had to have cost him tens of dollars to get custom-embroidered; dollars that he wouldn't have had to spend if he'd been able to just keep wearing the BBs hat.

Maybe with the money he racks up for Spotify plays of DIA '17, he can break even with the embroidery costs.
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« Reply #285 on: July 13, 2017, 02:54:13 PM »

...ultimately this whole thing with solo Mike Love tunes being performed by a band labeled as "The Beach Boys" stems from the bad decision that was made around 1998 with the license and everything..."

The lines have always been blurry. This really goes back to the '70s and '80s when solo Dennis/Brian/Mike/Carl songs were performed at BBs concerts. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I don't think the two situations are quite analogous. Back in the 70s and 80s all of the living and willing members of the band were *in* the band using the name. The "touring band" and the "studio band" were one and the same. Had the 1982 touring "Beach Boys" wanted to release a re-recording of "Do It Again", it would have (or could have) been released under the BB name.

In 2017, the "band" essentially doesn't exist and instead Mike is a solo artist who, for concerts *only*, pays to use the BB name. So you can have the same guys performing the same song on stage and then on record, but under two different names. So the situation is more confusing because Mike as "The Beach Boys" is performing a Beach Boys song on stage, and then on record release the *same recording* (remember, they just mimed to the studio track for PBS) under Mike's name.

In 1983, the "touring Beach Boys" were essentially "covering" live Carl's "What You Do To Me" record. With Carl present.  

In 2017, Mike Love solo is covering on record a song originally recorded by the Beach Boys, and recorded in 2017 by a licensed "Beach Boys" touring operation.

A closer analogy would be if Carl had released his solo album in 1981, but then went out with his *solo band* without most of the other BBs as "The Beach Boys" on tour, playing stuff from his solo record and old Beach Boys songs.

Well, yeah, all situations are different. The point being that the "touring BBs" performing solo songs live has precedent going back decades. That's fact. I was thinking more along the lines of Pisces Brothers, as sweetdudejim had mentioned that song, so I admit that Do It Again 2017 presents an additional twist, but still...the point stands. I'd hope/prefer that a solo Mike (or Bruce) song was announced as such before being performed, to avoid any confusion. And I suppose I wouldn't have been opposed to the license barring the performance of solo songs, but it appears that is not the case. I assume that wasn't even considered ?

But the entire setup and legal standing for the current "touring Beach Boys" is completely different now as compared to the 70s or 80s. And I'm not talking about the members or lineup. I mean that presently, the "touring Beach Boys" is essentially one member's solo tour which pays a licensing fee to use the name.

Back in the 70s and 80s, the "touring band" and the "studio band" were one and the same legally. Today, the "studio band" literally doesn't exist, and the "touring band" is legally barred from using its own licensed name for studio recordings.

So no, the "touring band" performing a "solo" song in 2017 is not the same as the touring band performing a solo song in the 70s or 80s. It's a different presentation, a different connotation, and a different implication.

Dennis wasn't trying to blur the line between the BBs and his solo stuff when he did a few "Pacific Ocean Blue" songs for like five minutes back in 1977.  Arguably, in the case of both Dennis in 1977 and Carl in 1983 performing solo songs at BB shows, it was a case of adding the songs to the setlist for a short time to avoid those members leaving the touring band to tour solo (and yes, I know the Dennis solo tour issue in 1977 was more complicated than that of course).
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« Reply #286 on: July 13, 2017, 04:42:36 PM »

...ultimately this whole thing with solo Mike Love tunes being performed by a band labeled as "The Beach Boys" stems from the bad decision that was made around 1998 with the license and everything..."

The lines have always been blurry. This really goes back to the '70s and '80s when solo Dennis/Brian/Mike/Carl songs were performed at BBs concerts. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I don't think the two situations are quite analogous. Back in the 70s and 80s all of the living and willing members of the band were *in* the band using the name. The "touring band" and the "studio band" were one and the same. Had the 1982 touring "Beach Boys" wanted to release a re-recording of "Do It Again", it would have (or could have) been released under the BB name.

In 2017, the "band" essentially doesn't exist and instead Mike is a solo artist who, for concerts *only*, pays to use the BB name. So you can have the same guys performing the same song on stage and then on record, but under two different names. So the situation is more confusing because Mike as "The Beach Boys" is performing a Beach Boys song on stage, and then on record release the *same recording* (remember, they just mimed to the studio track for PBS) under Mike's name.

In 1983, the "touring Beach Boys" were essentially "covering" live Carl's "What You Do To Me" record. With Carl present.  

In 2017, Mike Love solo is covering on record a song originally recorded by the Beach Boys, and recorded in 2017 by a licensed "Beach Boys" touring operation.

A closer analogy would be if Carl had released his solo album in 1981, but then went out with his *solo band* without most of the other BBs as "The Beach Boys" on tour, playing stuff from his solo record and old Beach Boys songs.

Well, yeah, all situations are different. The point being that the "touring BBs" performing solo songs live has precedent going back decades. That's fact. I was thinking more along the lines of Pisces Brothers, as sweetdudejim had mentioned that song, so I admit that Do It Again 2017 presents an additional twist, but still...the point stands. I'd hope/prefer that a solo Mike (or Bruce) song was announced as such before being performed, to avoid any confusion. And I suppose I wouldn't have been opposed to the license barring the performance of solo songs, but it appears that is not the case. I assume that wasn't even considered ?

But the entire setup and legal standing for the current "touring Beach Boys" is completely different now as compared to the 70s or 80s. And I'm not talking about the members or lineup. I mean that presently, the "touring Beach Boys" is essentially one member's solo tour which pays a licensing fee to use the name.

Back in the 70s and 80s, the "touring band" and the "studio band" were one and the same legally. Today, the "studio band" literally doesn't exist, and the "touring band" is legally barred from using its own licensed name for studio recordings.

So no, the "touring band" performing a "solo" song in 2017 is not the same as the touring band performing a solo song in the 70s or 80s. It's a different presentation, a different connotation, and a different implication.

Dennis wasn't trying to blur the line between the BBs and his solo stuff when he did a few "Pacific Ocean Blue" songs for like five minutes back in 1977.  Arguably, in the case of both Dennis in 1977 and Carl in 1983 performing solo songs at BB shows, it was a case of adding the songs to the setlist for a short time to avoid those members leaving the touring band to tour solo (and yes, I know the Dennis solo tour issue in 1977 was more complicated than that of course).

I'm not sure what you are arguing with me about. I only responded to one line of sweetdudejim's post. Not entirely disagreeing, but adding another layer. I was simply considering that the way the BBs ran their tours in the past (performing solo songs), may have informed licensing decisions. As I implied, I'm not a big fan of Mike performing solo songs, but I can't pretend to retroactively have a problem with Dennis/Carl/Brian solo material performances at BBs concerts. I acknowledge the differences between the situations that you have stated, but proving that two situations are not exactly the same, does not prove that there are not any similarities. Differences in presentation, connotation, and implication are irrelevant. All I was saying is...the band touring legally as "The Beach Boys" has performed solo songs, then and now. Not entirely unnatural, is it?

The other question to ponder: does Mike actually *care* about brand confusion when he uses the "our" in talking about the release?

Does anyone actually think he cares?

Not me.

As for Do It Again '17, I can't get past the autotune and "do its". It's embarrassing. More so for Mike than anyone or anything else. Not to mention, totally unnecessary.
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« Reply #287 on: July 13, 2017, 06:38:56 PM »

I wonder what Brian and Al think about this. Privately, they may  be laughing their asses off at this. Who reworks a song that was reworked 5 years ago that was a remake of a song from nearly 50 years ago? ....and each time it gets worse. No when to quit and not appear so desperate already.
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« Reply #288 on: July 13, 2017, 08:59:18 PM »

Really hope they're not laughing, it's not remotely amusing. I like the cut of the jib of this thread. It either is or isn't a big deal, not both, those who are acknowledging the points but minimizing it in the next breath are missing the point.

I actually started commenting in this thread after just hearing and being appalled by the performance, wasn't even aware that it is being released as a Love solo effort, is that really true? That makes it even worse, much worse. It's of some merit that he is keeping the music alive in performance by touring it, but the original is enough and needs no augmentation. Sorry but he is quite simply a shameless, money-grubbing pig as far as I'm concerned , and along with the repulsively self-serving spin he tried to put on the events of the past in his recent autobiography this is the final straw for me. He was an integral part of the band's success but now he is no less than a cancer on the Beach Boy name and legacy.
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« Reply #289 on: July 13, 2017, 09:13:22 PM »

The more i listen to it the more i like the 2017 version.

You must have access to better weed than I do.

C'mon, I think everybody is missing the obvious. The *2018* version is going to be the one to watch for. That one's just going to have Bruce on the lead and the guy from Smash Mouth, and maybe Urkel. Strangely though, it will still feature Mike on the cover, this time wearing a "Bruce Johnston" cap.....

HA (sniff).
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« Reply #290 on: July 13, 2017, 11:19:07 PM »

And it seems like I keep having more thoughts on this, but ultimately this whole thing with solo Mike Love tunes being performed by a band labeled as "The Beach Boys" stems from the bad decision that was made around 1998 with the license and everything. Because once Brian, Mike and Carl's estate agreed that there could be a touring group out there known as The Beach Boys without Brian or Al in it, but also specifying that they couldn't record under the name really made the whole thing a bit of a mess. And as much as I adore Brian (and anybody who knows me from this board knows that Brian is one of my favorite people in the entire world) I have to say that the legacy everyone is so worried about suffered the most damage when it was allowed by Carl's estate and Brian to let a faceless group of hacks go out there and represent themselves on the road as The Beach Boys. I'm sorry but it's true. Maybe I'll get attacked for it. Now maybe Brian never thought he would return to the group back in '98 and he and his wife thought that this would be a nice way to keep the name out there and also make some nice money. But besides the money, all this has done is devalued the name. You wanna know why C50 was playing amphitheatres instead of arenas? Because instead of the majority of the public building up demand to see the real Beach Boys since 1997 or 1998 or whatever, the average person probably thought, "what? How are they reuniting? They didn't break up! I just saw them last February at the Dodge Dealership opening!"
I actually thought the Beach Boys name would be retired when Carl died back in 1998. Would have been a proper - and respectful - thing to do. Doesn't mean Mike couldn't tour with his Endless Summer band, it would simply mean that the Beach Boys was a special combination of people - 3 brothers, a cousin, and some friends; not just Mike and a bunch of nobodies.
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« Reply #291 on: July 14, 2017, 06:45:24 AM »


I'm not sure what you are arguing with me about. I only responded to one line of sweetdudejim's post. Not entirely disagreeing, but adding another layer. I was simply considering that the way the BBs ran their tours in the past (performing solo songs), may have informed licensing decisions. As I implied, I'm not a big fan of Mike performing solo songs, but I can't pretend to retroactively have a problem with Dennis/Carl/Brian solo material performances at BBs concerts. I acknowledge the differences between the situations that you have stated, but proving that two situations are not exactly the same, does not prove that there are not any similarities. Differences in presentation, connotation, and implication are irrelevant. All I was saying is...the band touring legally as "The Beach Boys" has performed solo songs, then and now. Not entirely unnatural, is it?


Not arguing at all. I was simply pointing out that your analogy (that there is a comparison to be made between the 2017 touring band performing "solo" songs and the 70s and 80s band performing "solo" songs) did not wash in my opinion. Other than the literal fact that both cases involve performing songs from solo members' albums, there's no comparison. You seemed to be suggesting that Mike's 2017 band performing his solo songs was markedly similar in circumstance to, say, the '77 band doing a song from POB, and I think most everything about the two scenarios is completely different.

Specifically, *everything* about the uneasy or circumspect feelings people have about Mike's current band doing his solo songs in concert and otherwise promoting them has to do with the *current licensing situation*. And *that* is 100% different from the 70s and 80s.

Concerning what has actually informed "licensing decisions", if you read the Marks/Stebbins books and other sources, performing solo songs (or for that matter anything to do with the actual songs being performed) has *nothing* to do with how the current licensing situation arose. That licensing situation had to do with business moves back in the mid-late 90s.

Of course the touring band performing solo songs is in the literal functional sense quite simple, and of course Mike wanting to plug his solo stuff makes sense. But this is where your contention that the *implications* of that setup being "irrelevant" is missing the entire point of why some fans are uneasy about what Mike does now. Nobody is arguing that *functionally* what Mike is doing is "different." They're saying the implications of it are different, because he's the ONLY corporate member of BRI who can use the *Beach Boys* trademark in concert to plug his solo stuff. *That's* why it's different. Plus, it blurs the line between "Mike solo" and the Beach Boys as a band.
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« Reply #292 on: September 10, 2017, 08:51:37 PM »

Boring but DIA isn't huge favorite anyway. "Let's do it"shouts remind Stars On 45 intro song before they get to the [artist] medley.
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« Reply #293 on: September 16, 2017, 05:05:24 AM »

The more i listen to it the more i like the 2017 version.

You must have access to better weed than I do.

i dont smoke  Grin
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