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620879 Posts in 24982 Topics by 3549 Members - Latest Member: HotAsIce November 22, 2017, 01:47:45 PM
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Author Topic: Can't Wait Too Long on Sunshine Tomorrow  (Read 5422 times)
grillo
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« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2017, 06:25:59 AM »

Okay, here's what we know about the '68 version:

- There's an intro and it's recorded separately to the rest of the track
- On Unsurpassed Masters (labelled as a rehearsal but probably isn't), there's what seems like an early attempt at the full backing track that follows almost exactly the same structure as Brian's piano track for the 1967 version: verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/short verse/chorus fadeout. Prominent electric harpsichord, not much percussion and no acoustic guitar in this version. Definitely nothing from here in the released take. The choruses each cycle round 4 times, once more than the choruses in the Wild Honey version.
- Also on Unsurpassed Masters is the '68 take that we all know, that Brian calls out on the count-in as "pickup 2nd verse". And that's apparently where it goes from: verse/chorus/bridge/short verse/chorus fadeout. No more harpsichord, acoustic guitar and percussion added, Carl does his dee-dums on the chorus and the group do vocals on the fade. Aside from instrumentation the only real difference from the other backing track is that this time the chorus cycles round 6 times instead of 4. If it's just carrying on from the second verse, no idea if that means it would be cut into the early backing track or a different take entirely that we haven't heard. Or, a whole other insert or something. Thing is, the instrumentation means it can smoothly follow the intro while the 'rehearsal' backing track just doesn't work, so I don't think that earlier take was on the cards for being used. I just can't get my head around why Brian would go from recording the track in one go to picking it up with a separate take from halfway through. UNLESS.......
- On the Archaeology boot there's the fast handclap section with the wordless harmonies and the tag with Brian doing an extra "baby you know I can't wait forever" vocal that I'm starting to think might both be vintage '68. What if the handclap bridge was gonna follow the first chorus and lead back into the verse, and that's why Brian recorded verse 2 through to the end of the track separately? That transition always seemed kinda awkward in the early attempt and doing it this way just works. Chords work out too. Of course in the Archaeology clip it leads to the tag but that edit feels pretty unnatural. This is pure speculation though.
- There's a short a capella overdub on Get the Boot that doesn't seem to fit anywhere. Logically it would make sense over the "I miss you darlin'/I miss you so hard" bridge towards the end of the song but the chords are totally different. It works well cut up and used as backing vocals on the chorus but like...would Brian have ever done that? Probably not. This one's a mystery.
- The choruses are the same as the Wild Honey version. Same melody, same lyrics. We know this cos Brian keeps singing off-mic. Did that in '67 too. Must've been into it.
- No clue how the verse melody goes but it'd have to accommodate the "now I'm alone lyin' down lookin' up at the stars" lyrics somehow because that part's a short verse reprise. I think I have an idea of how it could go but Brian's singing something totally different in the background of the '67 verses that's too hard to make out so back to square one. This song hurts.


So here's my fanfiction wishful thinking edit of how it was supposed to go: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1IgrH_V1DalSjNtbTFZQ05MYk0/view?usp=sharing

Inconsistent sound quality because of various bootleg sources and using both the GV set mix and the twofer mix to switch it up a bit gotta keep it F R E S H

It goes: intro/verse/chorus (normal)/middle eight/verse/chorus (long)/bridge/short verse/chorus (tag). I think this is all pretty historically plausible apart from maybe the "miss you darlin'" vocal cut into the chorus but hey, I like it. Here's an alt version discarding the Archaeology tag vocal for an ending with better quality - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1IgrH_V1DalQTRGWVViRDVpc0U/view?usp=sharing
Oh man, that's great! That crummy reverb on the Archeology stuff does stand out, but at least this version has some sensible structure to it. A real treat to these ears.
I really appreciate your ability to organize in your mind these various pieces and create some kind of cohesive whole from them. I imagine you sitting in your leather easy-chair, in your lamp-lit mahogany study, quietly smoking your pipe as you contemplate putting these sound-puzzles together. To me they've always sounded like random, fragmentary ideas (SMiLe style) that BW hoped would somehow come together, but your various mixes (including your SMiLe) throw that idea out the window.
Anyway, good job!
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #51 on: September 03, 2017, 08:54:51 AM »

Okay, here's what we know about the '68 version:

- There's an intro and it's recorded separately to the rest of the track
- On Unsurpassed Masters (labelled as a rehearsal but probably isn't), there's what seems like an early attempt at the full backing track that follows almost exactly the same structure as Brian's piano track for the 1967 version: verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/short verse/chorus fadeout. Prominent electric harpsichord, not much percussion and no acoustic guitar in this version. Definitely nothing from here in the released take. The choruses each cycle round 4 times, once more than the choruses in the Wild Honey version.
- Also on Unsurpassed Masters is the '68 take that we all know, that Brian calls out on the count-in as "pickup 2nd verse". And that's apparently where it goes from: verse/chorus/bridge/short verse/chorus fadeout. No more harpsichord, acoustic guitar and percussion added, Carl does his dee-dums on the chorus and the group do vocals on the fade. Aside from instrumentation the only real difference from the other backing track is that this time the chorus cycles round 6 times instead of 4. If it's just carrying on from the second verse, no idea if that means it would be cut into the early backing track or a different take entirely that we haven't heard. Or, a whole other insert or something. Thing is, the instrumentation means it can smoothly follow the intro while the 'rehearsal' backing track just doesn't work, so I don't think that earlier take was on the cards for being used. I just can't get my head around why Brian would go from recording the track in one go to picking it up with a separate take from halfway through. UNLESS.......
- On the Archaeology boot there's the fast handclap section with the wordless harmonies and the tag with Brian doing an extra "baby you know I can't wait forever" vocal that I'm starting to think might both be vintage '68. What if the handclap bridge was gonna follow the first chorus and lead back into the verse, and that's why Brian recorded verse 2 through to the end of the track separately? That transition always seemed kinda awkward in the early attempt and doing it this way just works. Chords work out too. Of course in the Archaeology clip it leads to the tag but that edit feels pretty unnatural. This is pure speculation though.
- There's a short a capella overdub on Get the Boot that doesn't seem to fit anywhere. Logically it would make sense over the "I miss you darlin'/I miss you so hard" bridge towards the end of the song but the chords are totally different. It works well cut up and used as backing vocals on the chorus but like...would Brian have ever done that? Probably not. This one's a mystery.
- The choruses are the same as the Wild Honey version. Same melody, same lyrics. We know this cos Brian keeps singing off-mic. Did that in '67 too. Must've been into it.
- No clue how the verse melody goes but it'd have to accommodate the "now I'm alone lyin' down lookin' up at the stars" lyrics somehow because that part's a short verse reprise. I think I have an idea of how it could go but Brian's singing something totally different in the background of the '67 verses that's too hard to make out so back to square one. This song hurts.


So here's my fanfiction wishful thinking edit of how it was supposed to go: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1IgrH_V1DalSjNtbTFZQ05MYk0/view?usp=sharing

Inconsistent sound quality because of various bootleg sources and using both the GV set mix and the twofer mix to switch it up a bit gotta keep it F R E S H

It goes: intro/verse/chorus (normal)/middle eight/verse/chorus (long)/bridge/short verse/chorus (tag). I think this is all pretty historically plausible apart from maybe the "miss you darlin'" vocal cut into the chorus but hey, I like it. Here's an alt version discarding the Archaeology tag vocal for an ending with better quality - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1IgrH_V1DalQTRGWVViRDVpc0U/view?usp=sharing
Oh man, that's great! That crummy reverb on the Archeology stuff does stand out, but at least this version has some sensible structure to it. A real treat to these ears.
I really appreciate your ability to organize in your mind these various pieces and create some kind of cohesive whole from them. I imagine you sitting in your leather easy-chair, in your lamp-lit mahogany study, quietly smoking your pipe as you contemplate putting these sound-puzzles together. To me they've always sounded like random, fragmentary ideas (SMiLe style) that BW hoped would somehow come together, but your various mixes (including your SMiLe) throw that idea out the window.
Anyway, good job!

Thanks! I mean the real image is of an insomniac student surrounded by boxes packed up for uni at 3am ruining my sleeping pattern editing this stuff but I like your description better

I guess I just have a pretty good ear for structure. I'm a firm believer in Brian always having an exact plan for everything he recorded before he went in the studio, only his ideas often changed very quickly or were abandoned so that's why they can be difficult to decipher. Most logical answer is normally the simplest with his stuff given that he usually adhered to compact and conventional (if creative) song structures in the things he actually finished. H&V is the other one that suddenly becomes a lot less complicated when you study the sessionography, there's method somewhere in the madness. Not that I'm definitely right on any of CWTL tho. I hope Mark and Alan can get to the bottom of it and figure out the definitive structure with the extra tapes and info they probably have in the archive.
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #52 on: September 03, 2017, 11:43:10 AM »

Okay some things I just realised:

- the chorus in the master take cycles 4 times, not 6. No idea how I miscounted. So it's definitely consistent with the template set out by the full track runthrough. More credence to that being the definitive structure the song was meant to have.

- the handclap section is the verse. Same chords, same number of bars, same tempo, different arrangement. No idea what this means. I'm even more confused now. Help.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 11:44:16 AM by wjcrerar » Logged
Jeff
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« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2017, 01:44:08 PM »

Okay some things I just realised:

- the chorus in the master take cycles 4 times, not 6. No idea how I miscounted. So it's definitely consistent with the template set out by the full track runthrough. More credence to that being the definitive structure the song was meant to have.

- the handclap section is the verse. Same chords, same number of bars, same tempo, different arrangement. No idea what this means. I'm even more confused now. Help.

This doesn't really help, but as Grillo mentioned above, your efforts are really appreciated.  You've managed to take a "song" that was never fleshed out in its various releases and show what might have been (and, to some extent, what still could be).  This might be a riddle without a definite solution, but the best guess is still a very nice listen ....
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2017, 02:47:29 PM »

Okay some things I just realised:

- the chorus in the master take cycles 4 times, not 6. No idea how I miscounted. So it's definitely consistent with the template set out by the full track runthrough. More credence to that being the definitive structure the song was meant to have.

- the handclap section is the verse. Same chords, same number of bars, same tempo, different arrangement. No idea what this means. I'm even more confused now. Help.

This doesn't really help, but as Grillo mentioned above, your efforts are really appreciated.  You've managed to take a "song" that was never fleshed out in its various releases and show what might have been (and, to some extent, what still could be).  This might be a riddle without a definite solution, but the best guess is still a very nice listen ....

Thanks! I'm sure someone else would've gotten to the bottom of this before me if it was obsessed over as much as the Smile songs though Tongue
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Matt Bielewicz
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« Reply #55 on: September 07, 2017, 07:51:15 AM »

So he 'crushes down' the complexities of something like Wind Chimes from SMiLE, and gets an almost surf/garagey track out of it,

The Smiley Smile Wind Chimes is 100 times more complex than the Smile version. Just listen to that chord progression. The vocal arrangement throughout is stunning, as is the performance. It's everythig that's great about Brian f**king Wilson in microcosm.

Don't be seduced by flashy production. If Smile is the Branderburg Concertos, Smiley Smile is the Art of Fugue. And forget the stereo version. Mono all the way. Stunning album.

I've been away on holiday and missed all of the additions to this thread that happened at the end of August. Just catching up now. wjcrerar's analysis of the structure looks really interesting, but I need to work through and absorb all of his comments and track assembly attempts, and haven't had a chance to do any of that yet. But for now, I just *had* to reply to Hickory Violet's comment above...

As you may have independently realised by now... I wasn't referring to the Smiley version of Wind Chimes when I talked about Brian 'crushing down' the SMiLE version of the song to create a surf/garagey track — the surfy track I was talking about was the section of *Can't Wait Too Long* that's been used to make track 15, disc 1 on Sunshine Tomorrow, the version of the latter song on that compilation.

Names (of songs, sections etc) are always a problem with SMiLE-era stuff! But what I was talking about was how the SMiLE version of Wind Chimes mutated into the garagey/Motown-y 1967 version of Can't Wait Too Long, not the Smiley Smile Wind Chimes track.

You'll never hear negative criticism from me of anything on Smiley Smile, whatever the difficulties of how that album came about might have been. Ever since I first heard it over 20 years ago, I've *loved* it in all of its off-the-wall strangeitude. It's a beautiful thing. And the Smiley Wind Chimes is one of the most interesting parts of it. It's the same song as the SMiLE version... but on another level, it's IN NO WAY the same song. A great example of how to do a completely different take on the same fundamental song idea, by modifying chords, arrangement, and feel in the way that only someone operating on a high musical level, like 1967 BW, could achieve.

OK, now I'm off to work out what wjcrerar has been trying to get across here for the last couple of weeks...!
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Hickory Violet Part IV
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« Reply #56 on: September 07, 2017, 08:20:58 AM »

So he 'crushes down' the complexities of something like Wind Chimes from SMiLE, and gets an almost surf/garagey track out of it,

The Smiley Smile Wind Chimes is 100 times more complex than the Smile version. Just listen to that chord progression. The vocal arrangement throughout is stunning, as is the performance. It's everythig that's great about Brian f**king Wilson in microcosm.

Don't be seduced by flashy production. If Smile is the Branderburg Concertos, Smiley Smile is the Art of Fugue. And forget the stereo version. Mono all the way. Stunning album.

I've been away on holiday and missed all of the additions to this thread that happened at the end of August. Just catching up now. wjcrerar's analysis of the structure looks really interesting, but I need to work through and absorb all of his comments and track assembly attempts, and haven't had a chance to do any of that yet. But for now, I just *had* to reply to Hickory Violet's comment above...

As you may have independently realised by now... I wasn't referring to the Smiley version of Wind Chimes when I talked about Brian 'crushing down' the SMiLE version of the song to create a surf/garagey track — the surfy track I was talking about was the section of *Can't Wait Too Long* that's been used to make track 15, disc 1 on Sunshine Tomorrow, the version of the latter song on that compilation.

Names (of songs, sections etc) are always a problem with SMiLE-era stuff! But what I was talking about was how the SMiLE version of Wind Chimes mutated into the garagey/Motown-y 1967 version of Can't Wait Too Long, not the Smiley Smile Wind Chimes track.

You'll never hear negative criticism from me of anything on Smiley Smile, whatever the difficulties of how that album came about might have been. Ever since I first heard it over 20 years ago, I've *loved* it in all of its off-the-wall strangeitude. It's a beautiful thing. And the Smiley Wind Chimes is one of the most interesting parts of it. It's the same song as the SMiLE version... but on another level, it's IN NO WAY the same song. A great example of how to do a completely different take on the same fundamental song idea, by modifying chords, arrangement, and feel in the way that only someone operating on a high musical level, like 1967 BW, could achieve.

OK, now I'm off to weork out what wjcrerar has been trying to get across here for the last couple of weeks...!

I'm feeling that Smiley Smile love Matt. I will listen to it tonight in your honour.
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