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616870 Posts in 24875 Topics by 3535 Members - Latest Member: doodledoo September 22, 2017, 10:35:45 PM
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Author Topic: Can't Wait Too Long on Sunshine Tomorrow  (Read 4932 times)
terrei
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« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2017, 09:13:23 AM »

It does make more sense to think of them as two different songs from '67 and '68. A complete 'definitive' version is impossible. The structure just can't accomodate multiple versions of the same two progressions repeated again and again any more than you could do it for Good Vibrations.
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felipe
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« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2017, 09:35:38 PM »

Can't Wait Too Long to me isn't a song. It has two intros, a bridge and a fade
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Jeff
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« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2017, 11:51:09 AM »

Well, the versions that have been released aren't really songs, because for whatever reason, the compilers haven't made the effort to put the various sections together in a way that makes some sense.  But as wjcrerar has shown, it's certainly possible.  Here's hoping that they do so next year.  Otherwise, fanmixes will be the best we have.
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2017, 12:56:54 PM »

Well, the versions that have been released aren't really songs, because for whatever reason, the compilers haven't made the effort to put the various sections together in a way that makes some sense.  But as wjcrerar has shown, it's certainly possible.  Here's hoping that they do so next year.  Otherwise, fanmixes will be the best we have.

I hope they do take the cues from those rehearsal takes and have a go at assembling the full song properly. Understandable that they didn't attempt it for the Wild Honey version given that the backing track wasn't completed, but for this one there's no reason at all they couldn't. I just find it kind of baffling that the intended structure for the song's been a mystery among fans for so long when those recordings were right there the whole time. One thing I really hope they do that probably isn't likely is fly in Brian's chorus vocal from the WH take but hey, they did that kind of thing on the Smile Sessions right? I can dream.
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2017, 12:57:52 PM »

Well, the versions that have been released aren't really songs, because for whatever reason, the compilers haven't made the effort to put the various sections together in a way that makes some sense.  But as wjcrerar has shown, it's certainly possible.  Here's hoping that they do so next year.  Otherwise, fanmixes will be the best we have.

I hope they do take the cues from those rehearsal takes and have a go at assembling the full song properly. Understandable that they didn't attempt it for the Wild Honey version given that the backing track wasn't completed, but for this one there's no reason at all they couldn't. I just find it kind of baffling that the intended structure for the song's been a mystery among fans for so long when those recordings were right there the whole time. One thing I really hope they do that probably isn't likely is fly in Brian's chorus vocal from the WH take but hey, they did that kind of thing on the Smile Sessions right? I can dream.
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terrei
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« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2017, 09:45:11 AM »

Can't Wait Too Long to me isn't a song. It has two intros, a bridge and a fade

If we assume that the 1990 SS/WH mix of CWTL contains the full '68 tape (discounting the WH tag), then it would have run longer than almost everything on Friends, and had somebody simply recorded a lead vocal, it would not seem any more malformed than "Passing By" or "Wake the World".

>Proof of concept< (ignore that the last fly-in does not match the chords, and thus was probably superfluous)
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2017, 12:13:38 PM »

Can't Wait Too Long to me isn't a song. It has two intros, a bridge and a fade

If we assume that the 1990 SS/WH mix of CWTL contains the full '68 tape (discounting the WH tag), then it would have run longer than almost everything on Friends, and had somebody simply recorded a lead vocal, it would not seem any more malformed than "Passing By" or "Wake the World".

>Proof of concept< (ignore that the last fly-in does not match the chords, and thus was probably superfluous)

The early backing track take confirms the verse and chorus were supposed to repeat though - https://vocaroo.com/i/s18Nm7BmkTTC

Bruce mentioned in an interview sometime around then that it was going to be their new single, and if you include that extra verse and chorus it runs to Good Vibrations-ish length, maybe slightly longer. Unusual for the era but not totally unfeasible.

Also, do you have that isolated Brian vocal? It's much cleaner than the one I managed to extract!
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2017, 12:28:00 PM »

I'm going through the Unsurpassed Masters stuff again and just noticed Brian calls out "pickup 2nd verse" at the start of the vocal overdub - proof of the sections repeating? https://vocaroo.com/i/s0Qy9ex9ILtp
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terrei
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« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2017, 03:05:52 PM »

That doesn't prove anything other than that they originally flirted with the idea of having two verse sections. You can hear it all over the Heroes and Villains and Good Vibrations sessions, sections that aren't supposed to be leading into each other and Brian inexplicably labeling something a "pick-up to second verse".

I sourced the vocal from US Vol.19 and the GV 1990 box set. Check out track 27 on US. The backing track (with overdubbed vocals) has only one verse section, exactly as on the released version.
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2017, 03:44:13 PM »

That doesn't prove anything other than that they originally flirted with the idea of having two verse sections. You can hear it all over the Heroes and Villains and Good Vibrations sessions, sections that aren't supposed to be leading into each other and Brian inexplicably labeling something a "pick-up to second verse".

I sourced the vocal from US Vol.19 and the GV 1990 box set. Check out track 27 on US. The backing track (with overdubbed vocals) has only one verse section, exactly as on the released version.

Good point, especially since the chorus in that backing track with the vocals is quite a bit longer than the one in the rehearsal. Could be that's what they settled on in the end, but I think Brian calling out the take as the 2nd verse, the full backing track runthrough and the 1967 version do all strongly point towards that verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus (plus intro) structure staying consistent throughout all the song's iterations. At least as it was originally written anyway (plus, makes sense to stick to that conventional pop song structure and not go too weird if they were aiming for a single). It's really hard to tell if that stayed the same by the final production without knowing exactly what's on the tapes in what order - do we know if the rehearsals on UM are actually rehearsals? Sounds almost like the same take as some of the final track to me but missing instrumental overdubs. Hmm. As for the overdubbed backing track only having one verse section, I wouldn't discredit the verse repeating based on that. We know from the intro being done separately that the modular recording style was still at least somewhat intact for CWTL and it seems like Brian was still doing the whole "do one short part and copy it" thing around that era on stuff like Walk On By. Mark and Alan please clear all this up I'm going insane

Could you share the vocals you isolated pls? I wanna try something but I can't get a decent extraction from the GV boxset mix without it sounding The Worst
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« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2017, 04:47:56 AM »

I Love WJCRAW Hipotesis
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Jeff
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« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2017, 01:23:04 PM »

I'm interested to hear whatever he might do with the isolated vocals.
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Jay
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« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2017, 11:56:13 PM »

Is there any bootleg that collects all of the known circulating fragments/versions of this song? It's always been one of my favorite productions from Brian. But I only know the version on the 1990 twofer, the GV box set, the Get The Boot brief fragment, and now the Sunshine Tomorrow version. I'm not that well educated on the making of the song, and I'm kind of having a hard time trying to pick out the parts being discussed in this thread to follow along. I know bootlegs are illegal and frowned upon, so I really hope nobody tries to send me a compilation with every single fragment and version available.  angel
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« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2017, 02:59:47 AM »

Its built partly around the bass line for the Smile chorus of Wind Chimes - as such I've wondered if the chorus melody of CWTL was originally the WC chorus melody..?
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« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2017, 03:09:23 AM »

I know bootlegs are illegal and frowned upon, so I really hope nobody tries to send me a compilation with every single fragment and version available.  angel

I'd love not to send you a comp but I can get my head round it. Grin
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2017, 03:43:28 AM »

Its built partly around the bass line for the Smile chorus of Wind Chimes - as such I've wondered if the chorus melody of CWTL was originally the WC chorus melody..?

I've thought about that too. The Smile version of Wind Chimes always gets called 'finished' but something feels...missing. I think Brian could've abandoned having extra lyrics over the chorus by the revised version when he turned it into just an insert before the piano tag, but in the first version where it repeats like 3 times surely there was gonna be something?
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2017, 03:44:45 AM »

Is there any bootleg that collects all of the known circulating fragments/versions of this song? It's always been one of my favorite productions from Brian. But I only know the version on the 1990 twofer, the GV box set, the Get The Boot brief fragment, and now the Sunshine Tomorrow version. I'm not that well educated on the making of the song, and I'm kind of having a hard time trying to pick out the parts being discussed in this thread to follow along. I know bootlegs are illegal and frowned upon, so I really hope nobody tries to send me a compilation with every single fragment and version available.  angel

I could probably not help with that!
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mike moseley
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« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2017, 09:11:44 AM »

Its built partly around the bass line for the Smile chorus of Wind Chimes - as such I've wondered if the chorus melody of CWTL was originally the WC chorus melody..?

I've thought about that too. The Smile version of Wind Chimes always gets called 'finished' but something feels...missing. I think Brian could've abandoned having extra lyrics over the chorus by the revised version when he turned it into just an insert before the piano tag, but in the first version where it repeats like 3 times surely there was gonna be something?

 I think so - same as DYLW.  For DYLW there seem to have been extra lead vox that weren't on the mixes we have.
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Jay
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« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2017, 04:29:14 PM »

Its built partly around the bass line for the Smile chorus of Wind Chimes
Wow. I've been listening to both tracks for years now, and I never made that connection. Of course, now that you mention it, it's so obvious it's like Brian himself is sticking his hand through my CD player and slapping me in the face.  Grin
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« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2017, 06:18:44 PM »

Is there any bootleg that collects all of the known circulating fragments/versions of this song? It's always been one of my favorite productions from Brian. But I only know the version on the 1990 twofer, the GV box set, the Get The Boot brief fragment, and now the Sunshine Tomorrow version. I'm not that well educated on the making of the song, and I'm kind of having a hard time trying to pick out the parts being discussed in this thread to follow along. I know bootlegs are illegal and frowned upon, so I really hope nobody tries to send me a compilation with every single fragment and version available.  angel
Yeah, there's the Archeology box-set that has the extra "baby you know I can't hold out forever" backing vocals over the verses, which NOBODY seems to use in their fan or studio mixes (I'm looking at you wjcrerar, and you Linnet!) even though its a great little BB chant!
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2017, 02:55:24 AM »

Is there any bootleg that collects all of the known circulating fragments/versions of this song? It's always been one of my favorite productions from Brian. But I only know the version on the 1990 twofer, the GV box set, the Get The Boot brief fragment, and now the Sunshine Tomorrow version. I'm not that well educated on the making of the song, and I'm kind of having a hard time trying to pick out the parts being discussed in this thread to follow along. I know bootlegs are illegal and frowned upon, so I really hope nobody tries to send me a compilation with every single fragment and version available.  angel
Yeah, there's the Archeology box-set that has the extra "baby you know I can't hold out forever" backing vocals over the verses, which NOBODY seems to use in their fan or studio mixes (I'm looking at you wjcrerar, and you Linnet!) even though its a great little BB chant!

Don't worry, I know about that one! Just didn't use it because it's in poor quality. I really can't tell when it's from though. I've come round to the idea that the handclap section is actually from '68 (that's definitely '68 Brian falsetto and the same acoustic guitar as on the verses), but the archaeology stuff's mixed really weirdly with lots of reverb and sounds all 80s-ish. Is it possible that those are the mixes that were prepared during the KTSA sessions? The "baby you know I can't wait forever" vocal or whatever it is has to be Brian but it doesn't sound like the 60s. I convinced myself that it was his Here Comes the Night voice, but then there's a part at the end where it's more clear and it sounds exactly like he does at the Knebworth concert on Surfer Girl. Hmm.
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grillo
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« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2017, 05:34:11 AM »

Is there any bootleg that collects all of the known circulating fragments/versions of this song? It's always been one of my favorite productions from Brian. But I only know the version on the 1990 twofer, the GV box set, the Get The Boot brief fragment, and now the Sunshine Tomorrow version. I'm not that well educated on the making of the song, and I'm kind of having a hard time trying to pick out the parts being discussed in this thread to follow along. I know bootlegs are illegal and frowned upon, so I really hope nobody tries to send me a compilation with every single fragment and version available.  angel
Yeah, there's the Archeology box-set that has the extra "baby you know I can't hold out forever" backing vocals over the verses, which NOBODY seems to use in their fan or studio mixes (I'm looking at you wjcrerar, and you Linnet!) even though its a great little BB chant!

Don't worry, I know about that one! Just didn't use it because it's in poor quality. I really can't tell when it's from though. I've come round to the idea that the handclap section is actually from '68 (that's definitely '68 Brian falsetto and the same acoustic guitar as on the verses), but the archaeology stuff's mixed really weirdly with lots of reverb and sounds all 80s-ish. Is it possible that those are the mixes that were prepared during the KTSA sessions? The "baby you know I can't wait forever" vocal or whatever it is has to be Brian but it doesn't sound like the 60s. I convinced myself that it was his Here Comes the Night voice, but then there's a part at the end where it's more clear and it sounds exactly like he does at the Knebworth concert on Surfer Girl. Hmm.
I forget, what is the source for the story that they worked on CWTL during KTSA, and has ANYONE ever described what was done? Why is info on this track so maddeningly fragmentary!?

I hear what you're saying about Brian's voice on those vox, and the bad reverb certainly muddys it up, but it still "feels" like 60's BW to me, for what that's worth.
Also, that handclap/vocal intro is is so energetic and classic BW I cannot believe the archivists haven't given it a proper treatment! Hoping you can give it its due!
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« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2017, 01:01:15 PM »

Read an old interview w/Pete Townsend where he was asked about Good Vibrations and the way it was put together, presumable the "modular thing".  This was in the time of GV's release, and he stated that is how he was working and seemed really rather non-plussed about it as a production, which somewhat surprised me as he later came across as a pretty big BBs fan per other quotes of his I have read...

As far as Can't Wait Too Long, I actually can wait quite a while to listen to it as I don't think it has aged that well and really is not that interesting musically as far as I am concerned.  It was too long and repetitious for an album track and couldn't have been a single because it didn't go anywhere or have any real hooks.  It does tend to dazzle a bit upon early listens, but then you realize there is just not that much going on over time....I now rank it an interesting curio but quite understand its long "officially" unreleased status....Ditto Ol' Man River, another fun curiosity, but just not in the pocket and sounds very demo-ish to me as released....Also ditto We're Together Again too, these things are exactly what they should be, bonus tracks!
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2017, 04:13:45 PM »

Is there any bootleg that collects all of the known circulating fragments/versions of this song? It's always been one of my favorite productions from Brian. But I only know the version on the 1990 twofer, the GV box set, the Get The Boot brief fragment, and now the Sunshine Tomorrow version. I'm not that well educated on the making of the song, and I'm kind of having a hard time trying to pick out the parts being discussed in this thread to follow along. I know bootlegs are illegal and frowned upon, so I really hope nobody tries to send me a compilation with every single fragment and version available.  angel
Yeah, there's the Archeology box-set that has the extra "baby you know I can't hold out forever" backing vocals over the verses, which NOBODY seems to use in their fan or studio mixes (I'm looking at you wjcrerar, and you Linnet!) even though its a great little BB chant!

Don't worry, I know about that one! Just didn't use it because it's in poor quality. I really can't tell when it's from though. I've come round to the idea that the handclap section is actually from '68 (that's definitely '68 Brian falsetto and the same acoustic guitar as on the verses), but the archaeology stuff's mixed really weirdly with lots of reverb and sounds all 80s-ish. Is it possible that those are the mixes that were prepared during the KTSA sessions? The "baby you know I can't wait forever" vocal or whatever it is has to be Brian but it doesn't sound like the 60s. I convinced myself that it was his Here Comes the Night voice, but then there's a part at the end where it's more clear and it sounds exactly like he does at the Knebworth concert on Surfer Girl. Hmm.
I forget, what is the source for the story that they worked on CWTL during KTSA, and has ANYONE ever described what was done? Why is info on this track so maddeningly fragmentary!?

I hear what you're saying about Brian's voice on those vox, and the bad reverb certainly muddys it up, but it still "feels" like 60's BW to me, for what that's worth.
Also, that handclap/vocal intro is is so energetic and classic BW I cannot believe the archivists haven't given it a proper treatment! Hoping you can give it its due!

I have no idea but they can't have done much if they decided releasing When Girls Get Together was somehow a better idea

I get what you mean on it feeling 60s. I really wanna believe that it's vintage, but it's this bit at the end - https://vocaroo.com/i/s1h9jPVv0uOO

That "can't wait" sounds like...Landy Brian? I mean Brian sounded kinda like that sometimes on the Lei'd in Hawaii stuff but never that much and he didn't really ever sing that way after '67. I'm listening to Little Red Book and trying to spot any moments where he sounds like that and some of it's similar but nowhere near as...uh...crusty? Of course I'd love for Linett and Boyd to prove me wrong and be like "yeah pal he's just off it on cocaine"

Edit: I retract. Compared with the end of Lei'd in Hawaii You're So Good to Me and the tag of I Just Wasn't Made for These Times and it's the same h*ckin voice. And so much more youthful than early 80s Brian at Knebworth. Has to be '68. Has to be. We shall henceforth dub this voice Eccied Brian
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wjcrerar
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« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2017, 06:05:17 PM »

Okay, here's what we know about the '68 version:

- There's an intro and it's recorded separately to the rest of the track
- On Unsurpassed Masters (labelled as a rehearsal but probably isn't), there's what seems like an early attempt at the full backing track that follows almost exactly the same structure as Brian's piano track for the 1967 version: verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/short verse/chorus fadeout. Prominent electric harpsichord, not much percussion and no acoustic guitar in this version. Definitely nothing from here in the released take. The choruses each cycle round 4 times, once more than the choruses in the Wild Honey version.
- Also on Unsurpassed Masters is the '68 take that we all know, that Brian calls out on the count-in as "pickup 2nd verse". And that's apparently where it goes from: verse/chorus/bridge/short verse/chorus fadeout. No more harpsichord, acoustic guitar and percussion added, Carl does his dee-dums on the chorus and the group do vocals on the fade. Aside from instrumentation the only real difference from the other backing track is that this time the chorus cycles round 6 times instead of 4. If it's just carrying on from the second verse, no idea if that means it would be cut into the early backing track or a different take entirely that we haven't heard. Or, a whole other insert or something. Thing is, the instrumentation means it can smoothly follow the intro while the 'rehearsal' backing track just doesn't work, so I don't think that earlier take was on the cards for being used. I just can't get my head around why Brian would go from recording the track in one go to picking it up with a separate take from halfway through. UNLESS.......
- On the Archaeology boot there's the fast handclap section with the wordless harmonies and the tag with Brian doing an extra "baby you know I can't wait forever" vocal that I'm starting to think might both be vintage '68. What if the handclap bridge was gonna follow the first chorus and lead back into the verse, and that's why Brian recorded verse 2 through to the end of the track separately? That transition always seemed kinda awkward in the early attempt and doing it this way just works. Chords work out too. Of course in the Archaeology clip it leads to the tag but that edit feels pretty unnatural. This is pure speculation though.
- There's a short a capella overdub on Get the Boot that doesn't seem to fit anywhere. Logically it would make sense over the "I miss you darlin'/I miss you so hard" bridge towards the end of the song but the chords are totally different. It works well cut up and used as backing vocals on the chorus but like...would Brian have ever done that? Probably not. This one's a mystery.
- The choruses are the same as the Wild Honey version. Same melody, same lyrics. We know this cos Brian keeps singing off-mic. Did that in '67 too. Must've been into it.
- No clue how the verse melody goes but it'd have to accommodate the "now I'm alone lyin' down lookin' up at the stars" lyrics somehow because that part's a short verse reprise. I think I have an idea of how it could go but Brian's singing something totally different in the background of the '67 verses that's too hard to make out so back to square one. This song hurts.


So here's my fanfiction wishful thinking edit of how it was supposed to go: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1IgrH_V1DalSjNtbTFZQ05MYk0/view?usp=sharing

Inconsistent sound quality because of various bootleg sources and using both the GV set mix and the twofer mix to switch it up a bit gotta keep it F R E S H

It goes: intro/verse/chorus (normal)/middle eight/verse/chorus (long)/bridge/short verse/chorus (tag). I think this is all pretty historically plausible apart from maybe the "miss you darlin'" vocal cut into the chorus but hey, I like it. Here's an alt version discarding the Archaeology tag vocal for an ending with better quality - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1IgrH_V1DalQTRGWVViRDVpc0U/view?usp=sharing
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